BB judges favoring short guys?

[BTM0085]

Hey guys, I was just thinking, the major bodybuilding comps like Arnold Classic and Mr olympia are always crowning guys who are so short over their taller counterparts. I mean look at Tony Freeman your telling me that Dexter Jackson looks better than him...give me a break he is 5'6 no matter what he'll never be a real monster, taking nothing away from him thats just life, i can see in the comps with weighclasses the short guy having an advantage fo obvious reasons..but this is america, and the vast majority of people look at height as a positive quality in a persons body, why not in bodybuilding?

[Lfs2shrt2bsml]

ronnie was 5'11 and i think he won once or twice.. dexter did look better than tony. imo
dexters symmetry and the amount of muscle he had on his frame won it for him.. its just that the small guys look more muscular with the same amount of muscle mass.

[BTM0085]

keyword there is SMALL FRAME. who wants a small frame? granted you cant do anything about it but thats life, dexters frame is so small, while freemans is huge, i mean doesnt that count for anything...i mean you stand those 2 next to each other put them in a room with 100 people 95 of them are gonna say freeman has the better physique, and the 5 that dont are probably little guys themselves. I mean cmon would you guys rather look like Dexter or like Freeman or Arnie? its a no brainer. people see dexter on the street they probably snicker at how silly he looks, people see freeman on the street they probably shake in there boots. i mean bodybuilding is supposed to be about the alpha-male physique, height is a very big part of that.

[BG]

This is funny shit. I always hear the tall guys telling me I I look bigger because Im short, or I bench more because I have shorter arms, too funny.

[CMPD213]

Look at Coleman man.. He was 5'11 and won for how many years in a row?? It's about the muscle you have on your frame, your symmetry you have with that muscle, and the definition your muscles have.. I think you have the wrong concept of what bodybuilding is

[quarry206]

size is not all that BB is judged on, just because the frame of a person is big or little the judging goes much further than that. most contest now even put out rules on judging for people to prep for.. look at marcus ruhl, the size of that man is un real. but it is not an even size. height does not matter. its what you pack on in that size and how its placed. and on top of all that, how you show up looking on stage. gunter (sp?) was on the top 5 of the sport for years, and i might be wrong he is like 6'1''-6'2''..

second, i actually did meet dexter at a supplement store opening in florida. and by no means did i think how small he is.. and at olympia dexter was more cut, had less water, and more arm and back size with a slim mid-section. freeman came in 8" taller and only 40pounds heavier. and in body building terms 8" but only 40lbs means less mass..there are guys weighing 270-280lb that are 5'7''. so why use the arguement about frame size for jay cutler??

i agree in a non contest appearance toney freeman probably is a monster and a men among boys at the gym. but it doesn't mean he has a better scupled body. body building as a sport is about diet, size and an even symmetry. not alpha-male..

[BTM0085]

size is not all that BB is judged on, just because the frame of a person is big or little the judging goes much further than that. most contest now even put out rules on judging for people to prep for.. look at marcus ruhl, the size of that man is un real. but it is not an even size. height does not matter. its what you pack on in that size and how its placed. and on top of all that, how you show up looking on stage. gunter (sp?) was on the top 5 of the sport for years, and i might be wrong he is like 6'1''-6'2''..

second, i actually did meet dexter at a supplement store opening in florida. and by no means did i think how small he is.. and at olympia dexter was more cut, had less water, and more arm and back size with a slim mid-section. freeman came in 8" taller and only 40pounds heavier. and in body building terms 8" but only 40lbs means less mass..there are guys weighing 270-280lb that are 5'7''. so why use the arguement about frame size for jay cutler??

i agree in a non contest appearance toney freeman probably is a monster and a men among boys at the gym. but it doesn't mean he has a better scupled body. body building as a sport is about diet, size and an even symmetry. not alpha-male..

actually no... ok so say dexter is 5'6 240 and freeman 6'2 280.. Dexter has 3.76 lbs per inch, Freeman has 3.78 so its close so ill say there the same size for their heights...i dont know where everyone gets this idea that each inch is supposed to add on 7-10 lbs...the average man weights 2.6 lbs per inch...

[BTM0085]

This is funny shit. I always hear the tall guys telling me I I look bigger because Im short, or I bench more because I have shorter arms, too funny.

well that is true, short arms do help you bench more ..they werent lying to you all you have to do is look at worlds strongest men compared to world class weightlifters ..strongest men tend to be taller and have more functional strength, weightlifters can make use of there barrel chest and short arms..if a guys 5'6 benching 300 and a guys 6'4 benching 300 there both equally impressive, the 6'4 bench impessive because the long ROM, and 5'6 impressive for overcoming a small frame to put up such a large ammount regardless of short ROM...height/wingspan should def be taken into consideration if your comparing maxs with someone, as well as weight, form, etc. everyone is different, short has advantages so does tall, i think tall and short guys play on level ground in the weightroom, i think the ROM Factor cancels out taller guys having biggerbones-bigger frames.

[CMPD213]

I think the BB judges are just getting over the mass monsters that's all.. When coleman first started winning the olympias he was unbelievable and then he started putting on crazy mass and Cutler tried keeping up with him and that's when Cutler went downhill as well.. To be honest i think the Weider's want BB to become more acceptable and a bigger sport than it is today and by making a smaller, more symmetrical, more defined guy Mr O. It might bring thoughts to people that you don't have to take all the drugs to compete with the best... Even though dexter is 5'6 and weighs like 280 in the off season haha we know to be the best you have to do what the best are doing.. Atleast in my mind

[welshmaster]

actually no... ok so say dexter is 5'6 240 and freeman 6'2 280.. Dexter has 3.76 lbs per inch, Freeman has 3.78 so its close so ill say there the same size for their heights...i dont know where everyone gets this idea that each inch is supposed to add on 7-10 lbs...the average man weights 2.6 lbs per inch...

Ok, now take into account that Dexter has shorter arms (so less bone), no gut and was incredibly ripped. He probably has more muscle mass per inch.
Muscle size, symetry and definition, doesn't matter about the frame - those 3 are what the competitors are marked on. Anyway i'm not sure where your going with this because Dexter is the first short guy in quite a while, everyone else has usually been about 5'10/5'11. You'll have to wait another year to see if this is a new trend or just a one off.

[quarry206]

actually no... ok so say dexter is 5'6 240 and freeman 6'2 280.. Dexter has 3.76 lbs per inch, Freeman has 3.78 so its close so ill say there the same size for their heights...i dont know where everyone gets this idea that each inch is supposed to add on 7-10 lbs...the average man weights 2.6 lbs per inch...

wow now you are getting in to math that doesn't even make since when it comes to compairing bodybuilders.. like the last post said, arms, bone, natural frame come into play. .. point blank on stage at olympia dexter pound for pound was the best all around.. lean were he needed to be, ripped where he needed to be and posed the best when they were judging him (which is a big part of winning, looking good in the poses u choose)..

before posting anything orignally i actually looked at pictures from the contest to see if this thread had a point, but in pics from the 2008 olympia in the same poses dexter just looked better, more muscle on the arms, much more defined muscle on the back and abs were probably the best at the show that night.

their have been lots of tall guys that have won or ranked high in body building world.. and every year truely its anybody game. but using freeman and jackson isn't a good match.. nobody is argueing that you don't have a point and that the sport is harder on a taller man. but i think u used a bad example. i doubt you will find anybody that says at contest time freeman looked better than jackson.. i honestly would go as far as to say even freeman would admit he is a few years away from the top spot.

yes freeman is bigger than dexter.. pure size is not what body building is judged on, and never really has...

[NochoCA08]

I too am sick of hearing tall guys whine, i personally am 5'8 185 lbs, and honestly i would love to be 6'4 but its not gonna happen, part of the reason short guys are represented so well in BB is because we have a greater % of us working really hard in the gym as opposed to tall guys. Honestly, I went to the gym figuring if im not going to grow up I might as well grow out, tall guys dont have that mentality..A tall guy is "Big" regardless of weight, unless hes like 6'4 150. I have tall friends that $hit on my bench because im short have much shorter arms, nothing i can do about that..Tall people you have all the sports, basketball,football,baseball, stringbeans dominate the lower weight classes in boxing. And you whine because when lifting you have to move the weight proportion to your frame, thats only fair. if one of my tall friends benches the same ammount as me i guess they have more strength, but i wasnt blessed with a big frame like that so my bench is more impressive, unless i outweight them by a lot which i dont. Ill bet if I was 6'2 id bench more than I do now, while my arms would be longer, id have much stronger bones, and more weight behind me to push it. so it does even out. Bodybuilding is Body BUILDING, you dont build your height! Get it? while a tall guy might look bigger stronger, he didnt build his height and shouldnt get credit for it. Jeez, can you Giants let us average sized guys have anything be can compete with you in? there should be a name for tall man like napoleon complex, but when a tall gy has it hes just confident!

[BG]

I too am sick of hearing tall guys whine, i personally am 5'8 185 lbs, and honestly i would love to be 6'4 but its not gonna happen, part of the reason short guys are represented so well in BB is because we have a greater % of us working really hard in the gym as opposed to tall guys. Honestly, I went to the gym figuring if im not going to grow up I might as well grow out, tall guys dont have that mentality..A tall guy is "Big" regardless of weight, unless hes like 6'4 150. I have tall friends that $hit on my bench because im short have much shorter arms, nothing i can do about that..Tall people you have all the sports, basketball,football,baseball, stringbeans dominate the lower weight classes in boxing. And you whine because when lifting you have to move the weight proportion to your frame, thats only fair. if one of my tall friends benches the same ammount as me i guess they have more strength, but i wasnt blessed with a big frame like that so my bench is more impressive, unless i outweight them by a lot which i dont. Ill bet if I was 6'2 id bench more than I do now, while my arms would be longer, id have much stronger bones, and more weight behind me to push it. so it does even out. Bodybuilding is Body BUILDING, you dont build your height! Get it? while a tall guy might look bigger stronger, he didnt build his height and shouldnt get credit for it. Jeez, can you Giants let us average sized guys have anything be can compete with you in? there should be a name for tall man like napoleon complex, but when a tall gy has it hes just confident!

[Bossman]

actually no... ok so say dexter is 5'6 240 and freeman 6'2 280.. Dexter has 3.76 lbs per inch, Freeman has 3.78 so its close so ill say there the same size for their heights...i dont know where everyone gets this idea that each inch is supposed to add on 7-10 lbs...the average man weights 2.6 lbs per inch...

It's actually 8 lbs. For every inch taller, you need to be 8lbs heavier to appear the same in proportion.

[BTM0085]

Ill bet if I was 6'2 id bench more than I do now, while my arms would be longer, id have much stronger bones, and more weight behind me to push it. so it does even out. !

that was exactly my point.



in response to cgb to be the same size its about 2.5, simple math just divide weight by height def not 8 if thats the case the average man (5'9) should weight 552 lbs. taller people are usually broader in addition to taller so they tend to weight more per inch than shorter people. . LOL.. i guess i agree that the increased bone size in taller guys evens out with their disadvantage in range of motion and long limbs. but Dwight Howard can bench 400 at 6'11 265 thats way more impressive than a 5'10 230 lbs benching 400 even though dwight weights more.

[quarry206]

you use such extreme examples.. your first question was about bodybuilding. now we have moved to powerlifting???

there is soo many things to factor when talking about different sports and body size, frame, how that frame is laid out how their hieght is spread out on their frame.. this has turned into a debate about samyntics..

for every tall short arguement we could make.. there are amazing examples to disprove it.

*Allen Iverson, isaih thomas, spud web, tony parker.. all at least 4-6 inches shorter than the men they play/played against.
*barry sanders was 5'9'' 200, and played in a big mans sport, and i think he broke some records..
*Ryan Kennelly is 6'2'' and he does ok for himself in the bench press, if you count world recorders. who by the way he took the record from Scot Mendelson who is 5'9'' and known for having short arms for his size anyways.
*heavy weight boxing, tall guy sport right? i mean open weight right.. but in his prime nobody could beat tyson. and he was short. even against lewis who has an ungodly reach, he was whippin him the first three rounds, then just laid down (i still think he was paid off, but a different topic there)
*ronnie coleman was 5'11'' and he went five years without losing a single event, and 8yrs winning oylmpia. the guy he beat to get oylmpia dorian yates was 5'10''.. and the one man to beat him in his 8 year run was Gunter 6'2''..

and yes a 5'10'' guy that weights 230 compaired to a 6'11'' 265lb benching 400lbs means two different things. but because of frame and muscle difference not because of height. dwight howard is hardly meat and bones, thats why its impressive, not because of his ROM.

just FYI according to reports freedom was deducted for his small arms, back, and calves.. lee presist was even quoted as saying "is there a calf raise at his gym?"

we could play extreme example all day. one after another we could all debate who has what over who. truth is within reason, anybody can do anything. they just need to practice and work hard..

[BTM0085]

tyson is about 5'11 so thats taller than average, marciano i believe was 5'9 but point taken. and regarding scott kennelly, i could only find videos of him benching with a bench shirt, i saw raw 600 * 2 but nothing beating clean raw715from mendelson, link?

[youngNhungry]

I just want to add, lets not forget that outside of height, symmetry, current trends in what is deemed a winning physique, POLITICS play a huge role in the "winners of competitions."