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Have or Do any of you compete when your smack dab in the middle of a cycle?
I have a rather long cycle that I'm itchin to start next month, but at the same time I'm starting pre-contest for a Nov show(my first). Roughly 18wks untill show from July
Cycle I'm itchin on is 27wks
Now this is discouraging:o
C'mon peoples, lets be warm and fuzzy and share
BUMP
I have no show experience as of yet Pheedno, but I remember reading on here some guys do and some don't. A few people I've known that do compete have complained of looking bloated while on stage that were still on gear of the time of the show. I'll bump ya for more knowledgable brothers. Oh, good luck and keep us updated on your prep.
pulling no punches here, an 18 week cycle is ridiculous while a 27 weeker is absolutely insane. Personally, I believe that precontest prep cycles, which should be longer than most cycles, should last between 8-12 weeks. 12 when you are preparing for a high level show like the USA's or the nationals.
Basically your body stops making gains dramatic gains between the 6-8week mark. Here is where you start getting diminished returns. You want my advice, take the gear that you have with the 18 weeks you have and break it down into 3 6 week sections. Run a 6 week on, 6 weeks off, 6 weeks on. After the comp you will retain almost all of your gains and won't be so catabolic that you lose everything.
As for doing a cycle through a comp, there is nothing wrong with that. Just make sure it's inline with your goals. Whatever you do, don't run a 27 weeker. Most pro's don't even stay on gear that long. During Cutlers run of comps earlier this year he started getting gyno pretty bad due to having to stay on full time. Play it smart.
Pulling no punches here. I think your theory on cycling is drastically skewed and needs some serious researching. Whats your age, stats, and experience including comps? To believe an optimal cycle length is 6-8wks shows pure ignorance on your part; especially when you consider long acting esters such as deca/eq/test that do not even get to peak cosistant levels from anywhere between 3-5wks. Past the 6-8wks mark is when gains have begun to optimize in my experience. Gaining mass in 6-8wks does not give your body time to adjust to the new Lbs, thus causing a more drastic decrease in weight at finish because of lack of adaption. The body does not like to loose or gain weight, it's a biologically habitual organizm that requires graduall change. Any mass cycle is hindered by shortening the length below 10wks, and even a cutter should be 8+.Quote:
Originally posted by roidmanraging
pulling no punches here, an 18 week cycle is ridiculous while a 27 weeker is absolutely insane. Personally, I believe that precontest prep cycles, which should be longer than most cycles, should last between 8-12 weeks. 12 when you are preparing for a high level show like the USA's or the nationals.
Basically your body stops making gains dramatic gains between the 6-8week mark. Here is where you start getting diminished returns. You want my advice, take the gear that you have with the 18 weeks you have and break it down into 3 6 week sections. Run a 6 week on, 6 weeks off, 6 weeks on. After the comp you will retain almost all of your gains and won't be so catabolic that you lose everything.
As for doing a cycle through a comp, there is nothing wrong with that. Just make sure it's inline with your goals. Whatever you do, don't run a 27 weeker. Most pro's don't even stay on gear that long. During Cutlers run of comps earlier this year he started getting gyno pretty bad due to having to stay on full time. Play it smart.
You should start a thread getting opinions on this because I doubt you'll take mine seriously after the above retort, and you need to get a better view on cycling strategies, especially if you plan to keep criticizing members who practice(or are researching)longer cycles.
I find your advice disturbing because I've seen you giving advice to new guys around here(which you yourself are still new) and I know that if a guy had me on a 6-8wk bulker(or cutter) for my first, I would have been slightly unsettled after I did the proper research and found what would have been optimal. It also bothers me that your handing out advice because your theories seem uneducated which could be dangerous
I won't even comment on your blatent speculation of Pro's practices.
Hey Pheedno, where is your comp? Cause if at all possible I'd like to go and watch a very good AR brother compete. Good luck and I'll bump ya one more time.
Also what's your cycle looking like?
I'm shootin for the Sherman in Nov. business travel plans are uncertain but I'm going to train like I don't have any.Quote:
Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
Hey Pheedno, where is your comp? Cause if at all possible I'd like to go and watch a very good AR brother compete. Good luck and I'll bump ya one more time.
1-8 100mg VarEDQuote:
Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
Also what's your cycle looking like?
1-8 75mg TrenED
1-24 625mg Cyp
1-24 600mg EQ
16-27 75mg TrenED
I'll be using HCG mid cycle and before clomid, as well as extending my clomid/Nolva therapy to 6wks.
Actually the PCT therapy length will be gauged as I go. I get tri-weekly bio-chems while on so I'll know exactly when things are back to normal.
All looks damn good bro, but coming from you I expected nothing less. :D I like the test and eq dosage. I've come to realize I would have done better with higher doses myself instead of keeping them at 400mg a week. Next time I'll be going 22 weeks with test 750mg and eq 600mg along with frontloading prop and ending with fina again. Enough about me, just keep us updated because I'm looking to learn for next year when I plan on competing.
Yeah, I was considering upping the test to 750 but decided to increase by 125 instead of 250.Quote:
Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
All looks damn good bro, but coming from you I expected nothing less. :D I like the test and eq dosage. I've come to realize I would have done better with higher doses myself instead of keeping them at 400mg a week. Next time I'll be going 22 weeks with test 750mg and eq 600mg along with frontloading prop and ending with fina again. Enough about me, just keep us updated because I'm looking to learn for next year when I plan on competing.
I'll definately keep everyone updated on progress.
Comp prep starts July 8 as well as the cycle. I might reconstruct the cycle though to accomodate the comp. I doubt I'll have to but depending on retension, I might fade out the cyp and introduce prop coming into the show.
And I suppose I'll finally have to butch up and post pics. We'll have to see about that. I kind of enjoy the anonymity
Pheedno, sorry that i'm new to the board, but not new to gear. I'm an old long term use user recently converted to shorter cycles. Speculation it's not, but experience it is. Like many, the real world is my teacher.
I can't agree more that the body is one that likes to have things imprinted and constant in order to reach homeostasis. Going on this theory you are also saying that the longer your body feels it doesn't need it's own natural testosterone the longer it will take to recover once off of gear. This would increase your recovery time post cycle. This is when you lose the most of your gains.
Arthur Rea, the gear guru behind Chemical Muscle Enhancement, is a big supporter of shorter cycles. His rationale is that the post cycle catabolic environment in the body and depression of the HPTA are what reduce the retention of gains once a cycle has been halted. Likewise, it desensitizes the body to the substances once you attempt to go back on. You are then fighting to get back where you once were.
Even with short term cycles your body will get used to having a certain weight on it if you recover your natural test, keep your calories elevated, and body anabolic enough to support and hold the gains made.
As with your opinion on peak levels, you can't tell me that your body makes more gains after the 6-8 week mark than it did up to that point.
*Note: Many people mistake water bloat with gear as actual lean body mass gains.
You asked my age, stats and experience... 27, 5'8, 195lbs at 4.6% body fat (2 weeks out from a state level show) where this is my first NPC show. Last year I trained a national level competitor whom placed. On my resume i've got several bodybuilders, high school and college level athletes as clients.
You also asked about my speculation as to what the pros do. Tom Prince and Bob Chicerillo are both very active on Chad Nicholls board and at times will answer very candidly about gear. Tom's mentioned his contest prep being 6 weeks on, 2off, 6 weeks on. He has also gone into detail about how most pro's have talked to him about doing gear.
I won't highjack this thread, but I will stand by my advice.
Quote:
Originally posted by roidmanraging
Pheedno, sorry that i'm new to the board, but not new to gear. I'm an old long term use user recently converted to shorter cycles. Speculation it's not, but experience it is. Like many, the real world is my teacher.
I can't agree more that the body is one that likes to have things imprinted and constant in order to reach homeostasis. Going on this theory you are also saying that the longer your body feels it doesn't need it's own natural testosterone the longer it will take to recover once off of gear. This would increase your recovery time post cycle. This is when you lose the most of your gains.
Arthur Rea, the gear guru behind Chemical Muscle Enhancement, is a big supporter of shorter cycles. His rationale is that the post cycle catabolic environment in the body and depression of the HPTA are what reduce the retention of gains once a cycle has been halted. Likewise, it desensitizes the body to the substances once you attempt to go back on. You are then fighting to get back where you once were.
Even with short term cycles your body will get used to having a certain weight on it if you recover your natural test, keep your calories elevated, and body anabolic enough to support and hold the gains made.
As with your opinion on peak levels, you can't tell me that your body makes more gains after the 6-8 week mark than it did up to that point.
*Note: Many people mistake water bloat with gear as actual lean body mass gains.
You asked my age, stats and experience... 27, 5'8, 195lbs at 4.6% body fat (2 weeks out from a state level show) where this is my first NPC show. Last year I trained a national level competitor whom placed. On my resume i've got several bodybuilders, high school and college level athletes as clients.
You also asked about my speculation as to what the pros do. Tom Prince and Bob Chicerillo are both very active on Chad Nicholls board and at times will answer very candidly about gear. Tom's mentioned his contest prep being 6 weeks on, 2off, 6 weeks on. He has also gone into detail about how most pro's have talked to him about doing gear.
I won't highjack this thread, but I will stand by my advice.
Well bro, I will have to say that you appear to be experienced from your previous posts and from your statments here. But even with backing from a gear guru & short cycle supporter, I don't see a 6-8wk bulking cycle as being feasible.
As far as recovery is concerned, gain loss from a prolonged period of recovery can be minimized by metabolism minipulation and a bridge.
[quote]you can't tell me that your body makes more gains after the 6-8 week mark than it did up to that point[quote]
I think the main problem with most people judging gains is that they are only looking at Lbs gained. When the conditioning and BF reduction pays a huge role in cycle results as well.
I for sure can say that on a 10wk'er, the quality Lbs come from wk5 on(barring a jumpstart); It just takes that long for the gear to get working(at least in me).
I still feel that your statments on Pro's is speculation even with input from 2 of them. I would not take the word from one Pro on many, just like I wouldn't take the word from one person on here.
In any case, I'm pleased that you are an experienced user for addition here. We definately don't see eye to eye on some issues but diversity on a subject insures improvment from questioning.
Also, don't worry about hijacking this one. I think digression has taken place
I'm in no way taking sides to this...nor am I near competion levels. I'm just going to say what I have seen. For the record I think Pheedno is stand up...he's helped me so much...to which I thank him again.
I kind of know a guy who competes in Canadians (and won his division last year) that constantly uses 6 on 4 off. He swears by using shorter cycles. I'm sure he uses short term esters though. I know he also uses HGH...and uses it all the time!!! He also said insulin is the best thing....just under HGH...and above AS.
Also I'm sure it has taken him years of short cycles to get where he is today. Plus he's always doing HGH. I don't know Pheedno's physical state but maybe he needs a longer cycle to prepare versus someone who competes and does 6-4's all year around. Don't kill me if I'm wrong Pheedno. :)
No problem at all bro. What works for some, does exactly that; works for some. I myself don't see doing another short cycle unless it's a quick cutter but even my last 2 8wk'ers were just really getting going around wk5-6; so from that, I'll be a user of long durations.Quote:
Originally posted by Money Boss Hustla
I'm in no way taking sides to this...nor am I near competion levels. I'm just going to say what I have seen. For the record I think Pheedno is stand up...he's helped me so much...to which I thank him again.
I kind of know a guy who competes in Canadians (and won his division last year) that constantly uses 6 on 4 off. He swears by using shorter cycles. I'm sure he uses short term esters though. I know he also uses HGH...and uses it all the time!!! He also said insulin is the best thing....just under HGH...and above AS.
Also I'm sure it has taken him years of short cycles to get where he is today. Plus he's always doing HGH. I don't know Pheedno's physical state but maybe he needs a longer cycle to prepare versus someone who competes and does 6-4's all year around. Don't kill me if I'm wrong Pheedno. :)
I jumped the gun on RMR and actually think I let my ego get the best of me. That doesn't happen very often and I hate to admit it. Thinking about the subject of shorter cycles, it needs to remembered that experience is what works best for the individual. From what I've seen, they aren't for me, thus making them contradictory to advise on.
In any event, i really like this cycle you have laid out. My question is if you plan on competing during this cycle, does that mean you are going to use diruetics/etc right before your show? How is the comp going to effect your diet/training/goals?Quote:
Originally posted by Pheedno
1-8 100mg VarED
1-8 75mg TrenED
1-24 625mg Cyp
1-24 600mg EQ
16-27 75mg TrenED
I'll be using HCG mid cycle and before clomid, as well as extending my clomid/Nolva therapy to 6wks.
Actually the PCT therapy length will be gauged as I go. I get tri-weekly bio-chems while on so I'll know exactly when things are back to normal.
I'll be on during the comp. I plan on posting a thread detailing comp prep and the cycle. I doubt that I'll use diuretics, a little too dangerous.Quote:
Originally posted by 956Vette
In any event, i really like this cycle you have laid out. My question is if you plan on competing during this cycle, does that mean you are going to use diruetics/etc right before your show? How is the comp going to effect your diet/training/goals?
If anything, I might taper out the cyp and replace with prop if retension is a concern, but the majority of my water depletion will be through diet and strategy.
I suppose if needed, I can cut the cycle short before the comp but I'm hoping I can rid the water without doing that. I never bloat on anything(except dbol) so only time will tell.
You know, in thinking about it too you are probably one of the genetic few that can handle a cycle like this and not see tremendous sides from it. Most of the guys blessed enough to be able to retain, rebound and handle cycles like yours are usually some of the more elite bodybuilders. It was my fault for insulting your cycle FIRST before getting into more of a discussion with you about it.
I've seen too many guys, and myself have, experience too many side effects and not retained many gains after dropping a pretty penny on gear while running the cycle for a long term. You see guys starting cycles without anti-e's, staying on gear for 6 months at a time, or doing no post cycle recovery. I didn't try to place you in this category, but I did get a mental red flag after initially reading your post.
I know a guy that many of you see on TV whom stays on gear 8 months out of the year. He's balding, but doesn't have many other side effects. Mainly he does it because his job dictates it. He never really gets ahead, but never loses his size either. No HCG, no clomid, but he does run nolv full time. The only reason he runs the nolva is to eliminate the test bloat. He is a freak and a rare exception.
I've also got some fellow gym mates that lose almost all of their gains from 16 and 18 weekers, respectively. Neither listen to me about the shorter cycles. They both fight to get back to where they left off at the end of their cycles and wind up retaining about 1-2lbs total post cycle. One of them walks around with chronically sore nipples and the other never can lean up enough to show off his progress.
Pheedno, I believe you know what you are doing with your body. Stick by what you know and go for it. You asked if doing a comp midcycle is a good idea? Why not just stop it right after your contest. Let your body come back to normal after the horrendous rigors of contest prep and get back on for your gains again.
Then again, there is a theory that starting a cycle in a very catabolic and depressed state is ideal for gains and growth. Arthur Rea writes about this in his Building a Perfect Beast book. Keep in touch as time goes and let us know how you decide. I'm curious to test the theories behind starting a cycle in a catabolic state. You might just be in a good situation to test his theories.
Well I am not comp expert by any means but I'll put in my 2cents anyway bro. Only you know you body and if you believe that you can pull this off and are not gonna look bloated at all during the comp then hey try it. There are many natural diuretics in some foods that will help with water retention. Plus I think the prop will help if timed right. I myself wouldn't and I don't bloat much either. I just wouldn't wanna take any chances. However like I said you know whats best for you.
BTW thats one hell of a cycle you got there. 27 weeks of all my fav compounds (except for dbol:D )
Hey i got an idea why not take a cycle for 17 weeks stop for 1 week, do the show and then jump right back on for 10 weeks...that's what i would do in this situation...good luck...XXL