First Timer Physique

**WolfPackMatic** · 04-10-2015, 04:54 PM

I am 22 been hitting the gym for about 6 years straight mostly for football, played high school up to semi pro ball about a year and a half of those 6 have been physique based building, i also have sciatica which is kinda stunting my leg growth. Went from 140-160lbs which i think may be my wall at 6'0'' 5.4% bf. Had a coach tell me I don't stand a chance without cycling. Never took a cycle before, well aware of all the effects and well aware of how to manage it the question now is more or less what is the best for my goal of 190lbs and what do the vets and pro's think is best. I hit the gym 5 out of 7 days a week for about 2hrs at a time. Eating well over 5000 calories a day prepped and mapped out to fit my body's needs. My dieting is consistent and constant as well as my training, hate the idea of injectables would rather the orals but i know the orals are a helluva lot worse than the injectables. What are your thoughts? I hear tren and test e for both is the way to go i just need the vets opinions.

**MR-FQ320** · 04-10-2015, 05:23 PM

Hey, we'll definitely don't use tren , very harsh on your body, you may not recover at your young age. Typically they say it's 25 to cycle. Have you tried switching up your programme and diet, shock your body into change! Growth isn't a straight line.

**WolfPackMatic** · 04-10-2015, 05:28 PM

Yeah i've pretty much done it all, clean bulks dirty bulks, low carb, high proteins, all fish, paleo, you name it. Anything over 160 gets burned and added on to the base but i stay consistently at 160lbs for the last 2 years now, getting leaner, broader, but no change in weight.

**MR-FQ320** · 04-10-2015, 05:48 PM

Unfortunate I'm not blessed with those genetics lol. I think there's a hard gainers section in the diet room. What is your goal ? To just put weight on ? Are you planning making a living out of your body or something ?

**WolfPackMatic** · 04-10-2015, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by MR-FQ320

Unfortunate I'm not blessed with those genetics lol. I think there's a hard gainers section in the diet room. What is your goal ? To just put weight on ? Are you planning making a living out of your body or something ?

i plan on making a living out of my body yes, i am your classic ecto hard gainer. Plan on competing and building a brand which i already started. I will post in the diet room and see what i get.

**MIKE_XXL** · 04-10-2015, 06:08 PM

I disagree...gaining or loosing weight is mathematical equation...you eat more then you expand any given day and you gain weight...if you dont you add 500 calories till you do...steroids will not help you here is why...

Steroids are the workers building a house, food are the bricks....if you have 1,000,000 workers and no brinks, nothing is done no house no progress, however if you have 1 worker and 1,000,000 bricks, one small step at a time the house is build, moral of the story dont get extra workers, get more bricks...

perhaps you need a trainer to help you get past this plateau...i know it can be done...at your age steroids are not the answer...

**WolfPackMatic** · 04-10-2015, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by MIKE_XXL

I disagree...gaining or loosing weight is mathematical equation...you eat more then you expand any given day and you gain weight...if you dont you add 500 calories till you do...steroids will not help you here is why... Steroids are the workers building a house, food are the bricks....if you have 1,000,000 workers and no brinks, nothing is done no house no progress, however if you have 1 worker and 1,000,000 bricks, one small step at a time the house is build, moral of the story dont get extra workers, get more bricks... perhaps you need a trainer to help you get past this plateau...i know it can be done...at your age steroids are not the answer...

imm currently studying to be a PT through ISSA, had a trainer no results. When you go that route i guess you have to hand pick your trainer ya know. I do my calorie counts and at one point i was force feeding my body 8k-10k calories because i was told I wasn't eating enough pretty much fee up with the whole eating thing i eat like a fat man who hasn't seen food in 4hours lol.

**Silvercrank** · 04-11-2015, 02:08 AM

I personally don't believe you're eating 8k-10k calories a day and not gaining weight.

**Back In Black** · 04-11-2015, 02:42 AM

Agree with Mike. If you aren't gaining weight you aren't eating enough. That's it in a nutshell. 8-10k cals per day? Can you list what you ate on a typical day because that is pretty unbelievable that you could eat that much in any event, and not gain weight.

Take all the steroids you want but you will lose everything you gain when you come off and hall the associated risks of cycling young

**MIKE_XXL** · 04-11-2015, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by WolfPackMatic

imm currently studying to be a PT through ISSA, had a trainer no results. When you go that route i guess you have to hand pick your trainer ya know. I do my calorie counts and at one point i was force feeding my body 8k-10k calories because i was told I wasn't eating enough pretty much fee up with the whole eating thing i eat like a fat man who hasn't seen food in 4hours lol.

You are right you have to pick the right trainer, the food has to be nutrient dense and not calorie dense...to feed "the machine"...

**Metalject** · 04-12-2015, 02:57 AM

1. As everyone has said, if you're not eating enough you won't grow. It doesn't matter how much you're eating now, if it's not enough, it's not enough.

2. Two hour gym sessions - is this weights and cardio or are you lifting for two hours at a time? If l lifted for two hours straight I'd probably end up doing 50 sets, maybe more than that. You may very well be overdoing your training.

3. It's not about knowing how to lift, anyone can learn how to lift - how to press, how to squat, how to curl - it's not that hard. Although we all see people mess this up every day, we've all seen ridiculous form and schemes, but it's still not hard.

4. You may very well be one of those guys that needs a ridiculous amount of calories. I've had a few of those guys over the years, but it is a rarity. There was a very short period of my life when I was one of these guys. I was one because of my age (I was young at the time), and because of the amount of calories I was burning per day. My training was ridiculous, not in a good way. The amount of food I was eating was borderline immoral, but no matter what I was 165-170lbs. So yeah, it's possible to be in your situation.

5. Steroids , as Mike said, you need bricks or maybe mortar - if it's not bricks then it's something else, meaning something is off and missing. It could be both, too much training and not enough food. If you're taking gear but still burning more than you consume, you will not gain weight. Is there an exception to this rule? Yes, no matter what some may say, there is an exception. The exception is being only slightly below maintenance and taking more gear than you would give a herd of elephants. And even then this exception might not prove true for you - it won't most. It will only prove true to the few blessed with abnormal highly responses to gear. These guys can even get away with not being in a deficit at times or at least seemingly not in a deficit. Another topic for another time.

6. If you are really dead set on making a living or at least an income off of this at some level, you do need to hire someone, but not necessarily a gym trainer, meaning, you might not need someone to help you workout. You need someone that can help you plan how you eat, make changes for you - they may or may not also be good to help with planing out your training, but the former is most important.

7. I started taking gear at a younger age than you. I now have permanent low testosterone (I'm 36). Would it have happened anyway, if I had never used gear? Maybe, there's a good chance TRT would be a good thing for me at some point, but there's a good chance that it wouldn't have been until later in life. Would I be in a better position if I had waited to use gear, say somewhere around the age of 24-16? Maybe, but if I had still used it like I did, even if I had waited, I'd say the odds of me being on TRT would still be 100%, or at least close to it. Thankfully my thyroid is in good shape despite years of abusing the crap out of thyroid hormones and I don't have any serious health issues. Was I lucky? I say yes and no. Again, another topic for another day. But these are things you need to consider. But whatever you decide to do, you need to figure out what's going on with everything else and get those issues under control.

**MIKE_XXL** · 04-12-2015, 07:54 AM

As always well said Metalject...

I am in exactly same boat as Metalject on point number 7, started taking gear way to young and permanently shut my own hormone production, however i live in Canada and even thou my numbers are very low my doctor wil not put me on TRT, so i self medicate myself, fight with him for blood work so i can stay as healthy as i can, much like Metal my health is rather good, my cholesterol is in check, my thyroid is good, my insulin sensitivity is good...would i have done things different, perhaps...i did all of this to be a a state level athlete, my genetics do not allow me to be a monster and i have taken a lot of gear at one point, with hGH, peptides, insulin and all items in-between...now i help people design healthier cycles, if there is such thing, to achieve results with minimal gear...listen to few podcasts of Ameen Alai eh trains the likes of King Kamali, Tony Freedman etc....Tony is still competing at age of 50 and looks great, Ameen recommends low doses of all items from gear to hGH and insulin, its a refreshing look at the subject since the general direction in the sport has been "more is better" which i do not believe is the right approach, train, eat, use gear smarter is the way to go...

**WolfPackMatic** · 04-12-2015, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by MIKE_XXL

As always well said Metalject... I am in exactly same boat as Metalject on point number 7, started taking gear way to young and permanently shut my own hormone production, however i live in Canada and even thou my numbers are very low my doctor wil not put me on TRT, so i self medicate myself, fight with him for blood work so i can stay as healthy as i can, much like Metal my health is rather good, my cholesterol is in check, my thyroid is good, my insulin sensitivity is good...would i have done things different, perhaps...i did all of this to be a a state level athlete, my genetics do not allow me to be a monster and i have taken a lot of gear at one point, with hGH, peptides, insulin and all items in-between...now i help people design healthier cycles, if there is such thing, to achieve results with minimal gear...listen to few podcasts of Ameen Alai eh trains the likes of King Kamali, Tony Freedman etc....Tony is still competing at age of 50 and looks great, Ameen recommends low doses of all items from gear to hGH and insulin, its a refreshing look at the subject since the general direction in the sport has been "more is better" which i do not believe is the right approach, train, eat, use gear smarter is the way to go...

Definitely agree with you guys like i said main goal was to educate myself and you guys definitely gave me what i needed. Just signed up with IFBB Pro Axel Alvarez JR to make a plan and program for me. I'll keep you guys posted on the progress i make. Thanks again fellas!

**WolfPackMatic** · 04-12-2015, 04:54 PM

And I don't do cardio i just lift targeting specific muscles

**kelkel** · 04-12-2015, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by MIKE_XXL

Steroids are the workers building a house, food are the bricks....if you have 1,000,000 workers and no brinks, nothing is done no house no progress, however if you have 1 worker and 1,000,000 bricks, one small step at a time the house is build, moral of the story dont get extra workers, get more bricks...

Whew, glad I work for myself!