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Thread: Scientific study on repetitions just came out..

  1. #1
    MMA_Influenced's Avatar
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    Scientific study on repetitions just came out..

    http://www.cheatsheet.com/health-fit...=YF&yptr=yahoo

    What do you guys think? A study claims to have tracked high rep vs low rep training.. claim no difference in muscle gain OR STRENGTH (to my great suprise) as long as muscle is worked to exhaustion.

    If true.. and should i believe this study is correct it very likely means that a lot of us need to completely revamp out training methods to avoid injury and make life easier for that matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMA_Influenced View Post
    Science Says This is the Key to Building Muscle and Bodybuilding

    What do you guys think? A study claims to have tracked high rep vs low rep training.. claim no difference in muscle gain OR STRENGTH (to my great suprise) as long as muscle is worked to exhaustion.

    If true.. and should i believe this study is correct it very likely means that a lot of us need to completely revamp out training methods to avoid injury and make life easier for that matter.
    This is kinda an age old question, there has always been this debate to some extent. I honestly think the take home messages is, experiment and see what works best for you.

    For me personally, I have switched to doing lighter wieght and everything to failure with at least 12-15 reps each set. I am at a point where lifting heaving and being injured is not a "part," of the lifestyle. It helps me mentally wrap my head around not going heavy all the time.
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    InternalFire is offline Anabolic Member
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    whatever works for you, I find that anything works for me to an extent... so, whats the point of the studies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle View Post
    whatever works for you, I find that anything works for me to an extent... so, whats the point of the studies?
    Generally it's been recommended that for maximum hypertrophy lower rep and High weight is best for most people overall. This study shows that this maynot actually be true.

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    InternalFire is offline Anabolic Member
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    on some body parts I will have to do high reps and medium-lower weight for them to respond, and others be the opposite, high weight max intensity low reps, were all hybrids, I believe those with gifted genetics are usually has a dominance of one or another type muscle prominent in there bodies, or they just study the shit out of science researching there bodies how they respond to training so they know exactly how to train and destroy each muscle for maximum growth (or hire a fuckin badass kickass trainer/nutritionist/guru) so they get studied while they carry on with their lives. Money. Time and Knowledge bring amazing results thats for sure.
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    Everyone is different - use what works to build a freaky body. I could rep out all day long and I would shrink were others would grow, so apply what works and don't follow studies what use normal men and women who don't live a lifestyle how we do.
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    A one rep max ultimately creates a different adaptation in the body than a 20 rep set does.

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    Let’s get one thing straight – feeling the “burn” in your muscle from very high rep training does not cause growth. Muscles grow from a combination of tension overload and fatigue. Maximum protein synthesis occurs between 70-85% of your 1RM (one rep max).

    A study in 2009 conducted by Kumar et al. (Journal of Applied Physiology) measured the fluctuations in muscle protein synthesis after weight training. They found that the anabolic response (muscle building) increased by:

    30% after training with weights that were 20% of 1RM*
    40% after training with weights that were 40% of 1RM
    100% after training with weights that were 60% of 1RM
    130% after training with weights that were 75% of 1RM
    100% after training with weights that were 90% of 1RM

    (1RM – One repetition maximum, is the maximum amount of weight a person is able to lift for a single repetition*)

    As we can see from this information, the peak of muscle growth occurs when training with a weight that is around 75% of our 1RM. The reason that the muscle building response is lower at 90% of 1RM is because the weight is just too heavy. This weight causes the nervous system to fatigue first, not the muscle fibres. This means that the muscles are not receiving enough time under tension to trigger the adaptive growth response.

    So how many reps is 75% of your 1 RM? Take a look at the chart below to see how 1RM percentages relate to repetitions:

    100% of 1RM = 1 rep
    95% of 1RM = 2 reps
    93% of 1RM = 3 reps
    90% of 1RM = 4 reps
    87% of 1RM = 5 reps
    85% of 1RM = 6 reps
    83% of 1RM = 7 reps
    80% of 1RM = 8 reps
    77% of 1RM = 9 reps
    75% of 1RM = 10 reps
    67% of 1RM = 12 reps
    65% of 1RM = 15 reps

    As you can see, 75% of your one rep max works out at around 10 reps. So, training anywhere between 8 – 12 reps to failure is the optimum rep range for muscle growth.

    relentlessgains.com/best-rep-range-to-build-muscle/

  9. #9
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    Cuz
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    I quite frequently went to 16 even 18 reps on delts and chest mostly presses. Back was different and legs kept them around 10 or 12. I love doing high reps with moderate heavy weight..rest pause..rest pause

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tovarasu View Post
    Let’s get one thing straight – feeling the “burn” in your muscle from very high rep training does not cause growth. Muscles grow from a combination of tension overload and fatigue. Maximum protein synthesis
    /
    I would have to disagree in part to some of what you state.

    First, typically the accumulation of lactate or the "burn," causes the muscle to fatigue before any type of neurological or "central Fatigue," is experienced.

    Secondly, the accumulation of blood lactate has a direct relationship with the amount of GH that is released which stimulates in part increased protein synthesis.

    Third, post exercise protein synthesis is not the be all end all measure of muscular growth. It is one of a number of factors exercise physiologist use to measure acute changes during exercise but in and of its self, maynot translate in measurable muscle hypertrophy.

    Fourth, I do agree that higher percentages of 1rm seem to suggest that it's greater for strength. The literature does not always definitively support lower rep higher wieght as being superior for muscle hypertrophy.

    Thus, whatever is working for you. Go with it. Lol

    Effects of Low- vs. High-Load Resistance Training on Muscle Strength and Hypertrophy in Well-Trained Men. - PubMed - NCBI

    Comparison of two resistance training protocols, 6RM versus 12RM, to increase the 1RM in healthy young adults. A single-blind, randomized controlled ... - PubMed - NCBI
    Last edited by MuscleScience; 09-13-2016 at 03:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MMA_Influenced View Post
    Science Says This is the Key to Building Muscle and Bodybuilding

    What do you guys think? A study claims to have tracked high rep vs low rep training.. claim no difference in muscle gain OR STRENGTH (to my great suprise) as long as muscle is worked to exhaustion.

    If true.. and should i believe this study is correct it very likely means that a lot of us need to completely revamp out training methods to avoid injury and make life easier for that matter.

    Right who knows. I just replied to another thread about this. Either way it's what your goals are I guess, I'd like to have power along with any size for real life application..not just moderate weight and higher reps for size

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tovarasu View Post
    Let’s get one thing straight – feeling the “burn” in your muscle from very high rep training does not cause growth. Muscles grow from a combination of tension overload and fatigue. Maximum protein synthesis occurs between 70-85% of your 1RM (one rep max).

    A study in 2009 conducted by Kumar et al. (Journal of Applied Physiology) measured the fluctuations in muscle protein synthesis after weight training. They found that the anabolic response (muscle building) increased by:

    30% after training with weights that were 20% of 1RM*
    40% after training with weights that were 40% of 1RM
    100% after training with weights that were 60% of 1RM
    130% after training with weights that were 75% of 1RM
    100% after training with weights that were 90% of 1RM

    (1RM – One repetition maximum, is the maximum amount of weight a person is able to lift for a single repetition*)

    As we can see from this information, the peak of muscle growth occurs when training with a weight that is around 75% of our 1RM. The reason that the muscle building response is lower at 90% of 1RM is because the weight is just too heavy. This weight causes the nervous system to fatigue first, not the muscle fibres. This means that the muscles are not receiving enough time under tension to trigger the adaptive growth response.

    So how many reps is 75% of your 1 RM? Take a look at the chart below to see how 1RM percentages relate to repetitions:

    100% of 1RM = 1 rep
    95% of 1RM = 2 reps
    93% of 1RM = 3 reps
    90% of 1RM = 4 reps
    87% of 1RM = 5 reps
    85% of 1RM = 6 reps
    83% of 1RM = 7 reps
    80% of 1RM = 8 reps
    77% of 1RM = 9 reps
    75% of 1RM = 10 reps
    67% of 1RM = 12 reps
    65% of 1RM = 15 reps

    As you can see, 75% of your one rep max works out at around 10 reps. So, training anywhere between 8 – 12 reps to failure is the optimum rep range for muscle growth.

    relentlessgains.com/best-rep-range-to-build-muscle/
    This is what I commented on in the other thread lol

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuz View Post
    I quite frequently went to 16 even 18 reps on delts and chest mostly presses. Back was different and legs kept them around 10 or 12. I love doing high reps with moderate heavy weight..rest pause..rest pause
    Yeah I heard legs like heavy weight moderate to high reps. Just because. And calvs are heavy weight responsive and high reps again do to their roll in every day walking all day etc. yeh different muscle require different approaches I think.

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    Chicagotarsier is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tovarasu View Post
    Let’s get one thing straight – feeling the “burn” in your muscle from very high rep training does not cause growth. Muscles grow from a combination of tension overload and fatigue. Maximum protein synthesis occurs between 70-85% of your 1RM (one rep max).

    A study in 2009 conducted by Kumar et al. (Journal of Applied Physiology) measured the fluctuations in muscle protein synthesis after weight training. They found that the anabolic response (muscle building) increased by:

    30% after training with weights that were 20% of 1RM*
    40% after training with weights that were 40% of 1RM
    100% after training with weights that were 60% of 1RM
    130% after training with weights that were 75% of 1RM
    100% after training with weights that were 90% of 1RM

    (1RM – One repetition maximum, is the maximum amount of weight a person is able to lift for a single repetition*)

    As we can see from this information, the peak of muscle growth occurs when training with a weight that is around 75% of our 1RM. The reason that the muscle building response is lower at 90% of 1RM is because the weight is just too heavy. This weight causes the nervous system to fatigue first, not the muscle fibres. This means that the muscles are not receiving enough time under tension to trigger the adaptive growth response.

    So how many reps is 75% of your 1 RM? Take a look at the chart below to see how 1RM percentages relate to repetitions:

    100% of 1RM = 1 rep
    95% of 1RM = 2 reps
    93% of 1RM = 3 reps
    90% of 1RM = 4 reps
    87% of 1RM = 5 reps
    85% of 1RM = 6 reps
    83% of 1RM = 7 reps
    80% of 1RM = 8 reps
    77% of 1RM = 9 reps
    75% of 1RM = 10 reps
    67% of 1RM = 12 reps
    65% of 1RM = 15 reps

    As you can see, 75% of your one rep max works out at around 10 reps. So, training anywhere between 8 – 12 reps to failure is the optimum rep range for muscle growth.

    relentlessgains.com/best-rep-range-to-build-muscle/
    So if you knew that GVT focus the 10x10 sets at 70% of your 1RM....
    and that GVT is high rep training used by every successful power lifting group in olympic history.

    I think saying that cardio repetitive activity does not build muscle very well...is what you really want to say. Anything over 10 reps is cardio in my book. GVT shines because the 90 seconds between SETS keeps heartrate up and gives you cardio and the muscle growth.
    Last edited by Chicagotarsier; 09-14-2016 at 04:51 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicagotarsier
    So if you knew that GVT focus the 10x10 sets at 70% of your 1RM.... and that GVT is high rep training used by every successful power lifting group in olympic history. I think saying that cardio repetitive activity does not build muscle very well...is what you really want to say. Anything over 10 reps is cardio in my book. GVT shines because the 90 seconds between SETS keeps heartrate up and gives you cardio and the muscle growth.
    Wrong.

    First, it is called weight lifting not power lifting.
    Second, have you ever heard of the Bulgarian method?

    The Bulgarians crushed people for years using a very low volume style of training where one would hit a max effort 1 rep squat one to two times every day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    Wrong.

    First, it is called weight lifting not power lifting.
    Second, have you ever heard of the Bulgarian method?

    The Bulgarians crushed people for years using a very low volume style of training where one would hit a max effort 1 rep squat one to two times every day.
    My brother experimented with a variation of this. He was squatting 3 times a week at 90-95% 1RM. Didnt take long for his knees to give out. He uses cube method now.

    Anyway.. on topic... in my mind it makes more sense to assume that the body responds and adapts to the stresses it undergoes. If I train at 15 reps, I'll get better at lifting weights at 15 reps. Inevtiably my 1RM will increase gradually. If I train at 5 reps, I'm going to get better at moving heavy weight over 5 reps. my 1RM should increase more quickly at this. With respect to muscular growth, I have personally found that only HIT does this. Otherwise I walk out with a bit of a pump, no doms, and no growth.

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    Chicagotarsier is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deadlifting Dog View Post
    Wrong.

    First, it is called weight lifting not power lifting.
    Second, have you ever heard of the Bulgarian method?

    The Bulgarians crushed people for years using a very low volume style of training where one would hit a max effort 1 rep squat one to two times every day.
    I see the Germans for about 60 years owning weight lifting (NOT bodybuilding) in the olympics. They used 10x10 every 6 months switching to 5x5 for the next 6 months (recovery). I am not going to argue because the fact of the matter in my mind is

    1. CNS is the hurdle
    2. Breaking CNS is easy EXCEPT in a plateau.
    3. Reps break CNS in a plateau.

    I increased my bench 85 kilo in 6 months out of a plateau with 10 x 10 training. I then went 12 months allowing my body to adjust to the new level of intensity. I then increased 40 kilo on my second 10 x 10 6-month segment. What did I do when I was not 10x10? 5x3. Each style has its time and place. There are people that make BIG money coaching to a lift...a single lift. Read up on Mark Henry...the olympian and entertainer. When we was going through breaking his CNS it was reps reps reps. He started 18 months out from a competition where he had to do a single lift tailoring to make that one lift. But do what works for you.

  18. #18
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    Bottom line is go till failure regardless. Challenge and destroy tissue then rebuild. I don't go above reps of 15. And only do 15 if I'm burning out at the end of my sets. Usually isolation moves. Other then that. I want power. Which is strength and speed, some endurance etc. balance is key. I don't need to lift a truck and I'm not trying to just move for nothing when weight training. If that's the case then do aerobics lol. I usually stick to 8-10 reps. And 10 is max usually. Beyond that I feel it's not challenging enough and just moving lol. Go heavy and go for a decent amount of reps to break down. But everyone is different so the lesson learned is that you have to have knowledge in lifting etc and get out and try different things and find out what works

  19. #19
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    Lots of studies on this subject, one is not decisive. I think the best book on this is "science and practice of strength training" by zatsiorsky. References to a ton of studies and also explains why low reps work better for strength and power while ~10 reps for hypertrophy.

    I just rotate exercises like doggcrap. Goal is to beat the book every time and this way the only way you can do it is by going to failure. I vary the rep ranges. For chins and dips I even do bodyweight maxes. My take on it is you benefit from training all types of muscle fiber and even training your CNS to handle heavier loads will later on allow you to train heavier in other rep ranges and induce growth.

  20. #20
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    I workout at 70 percent of 1rm for sets of 8-10. So far so good. Every workout adding weight,which also has been increasing my strength and size.
    Even if the results were the same or better ,50 percent or less for reps of...25,30,35 ? No thanks. You'll be in the gym all day.
    So many studies out there ,so many results. Essentially, as mentioned above,what works for you . Any type of exercise with weights will yield results. Trick is, vary it up so you won't plateau.
    I do know the german volume training seems to yield good results,but thats even with 60 percent of 1rm.

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