Is Atkins good for cutting?

**AandF6969** · 05-27-2004, 04:10 PM

I'm going to start cutting in about a month or 6 weeks and I was just wondering if it's okay to cut carbs down to about 50g a day? I read that carbohydrates are essential after exercise to keep muscle.

**BigGreen** · 05-27-2004, 04:22 PM

You absolutely do NOT want to deplete carbs to that degree while looking to maintain muscle mass in my opinion. *Especially* not on workout days. My current approach is to go fairly low on non-workout days, but to bump it up considerably on workout days. I'd say you need 75g post-workout at the very least, even while cutting. Keep in mind, effective weight loss to the general public (meaning a reducation in bodyweight, tissue make up be ****ed) and effective weight loss to "us" are two entirely different things. Atkins and keto may well bring about effective weight loss from a general perspective, but is not, in my estimation a good idea for those of us looking to "cut" as opposed to "lose weight".

**elicotton** · 05-27-2004, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by BigGreen

You absolutely do NOT want to deplete carbs to that degree while looking to maintain muscle mass in my opinion. *Especially* not on workout days. My current approach is to go fairly low on non-workout days, but to bump it up considerably on workout days. I'd say you need 75g post-workout at the very least, even while cutting. Keep in mind, effective weight loss to the general public (meaning a reducation in bodyweight, tissue make up be ****ed) and effective weight loss to "us" are two entirely different things. Atkins and keto may well bring about effective weight loss from a general perspective, but is not, in my estimation a good idea for those of us looking to "cut" as opposed to "lose weight".

I couldn't agree more. My very recent experience with trying to maintain an extremely low carb intake while lifting was eye opening to me. First, I couldn't train with any real intensity. I would get a burn by the third or fourth rep of my warm-up set, I assume because of being glycogen depleted.

Also, my recovery between sets suffered greatly.

Thirdly, my muscles got flat and SMALL. The glycogen depletion caused the muscle to lose water. I knew this was coming, and thought I could handle it mentally, but I was wrong.

Last, I was in a fog for the first hour or two everyday, mentally and physically. It was not enjoyable.

Atkins is fine for a couch potato, but imo you need some smartly timed carbs, preferably at breakfast and post workout.

**AandF6969** · 05-28-2004, 01:55 AM

So basically I should cut down on everything to "cut" and not just on carbs? Will cardio do it by itself?

**Spoon** · 05-28-2004, 02:43 AM

just have a good clean diet and do cardio 3-5 times a week in the am on empty stomach and your good to go

**realmxofxnoise** · 05-28-2004, 05:27 AM

Well, personal experience for me has been good and hopefully continue to get better. I am a vegan, I have been a vegan for almost seven years now. When I first went vegan, I dropped weight, which was good, (note: a vegan diet is supposed to get you to your optimal metabolism.) Well, I'm still a big ****er, heh:

6' 4"
265

I only started training about a month ago, and have been trying to stick to it and just improve my training methods. A vegan diet is something I can not stear away from, for the ethics keep me in line and from cheating. I sincerely feel 95% better as a vegan physcially and emotionally than I did when I was eating the typical American diet (meat and dairy).

I have a lot of family members that are on the Atkins diet, and yes - they are dropping weight, however they are all ****in' couch potato's. Another side note - my mother and a friends mother that are on Atkins both say "I feel like I can't do much, I have no energy." Hence - Carbs are not in diet as much.

Luckily I've dropped about 10 pounds since starting my training, which I'm glad. After reading a lot on here, I've discovered one thing that is helping. That's doing cardio on an empty stomach. I do cardio everyday. I hope any of this gives you any insight.

Sorry for the lengthy post, just thought I'd throw my two cents in there. I hope all goes well for you. Thanks!

Nick

**SwoleCat** · 05-28-2004, 07:31 AM

Ouch, he said the V word!

~SC~

**Spoon** · 05-28-2004, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by realmxofxnoise

Well, personal experience for me has been good and hopefully continue to get better. I am a vegan, I have been a vegan for almost seven years now. When I first went vegan, I dropped weight, which was good, (note: a vegan diet is supposed to get you to your optimal metabolism.) Well, I'm still a big ****er, heh:

6' 4"
265

I only started training about a month ago, and have been trying to stick to it and just improve my training methods. A vegan diet is something I can not stear away from, for the ethics keep me in line and from cheating. I sincerely feel 95% better as a vegan physcially and emotionally than I did when I was eating the typical American diet (meat and dairy).

I have a lot of family members that are on the Atkins diet, and yes - they are dropping weight, however they are all ****in' couch potato's. Another side note - my mother and a friends mother that are on Atkins both say "I feel like I can't do much, I have no energy." Hence - Carbs are not in diet as much.

Luckily I've dropped about 10 pounds since starting my training, which I'm glad. After reading a lot on here, I've discovered one thing that is helping. That's doing cardio on an empty stomach. I do cardio everyday. I hope any of this gives you any insight.

Sorry for the lengthy post, just thought I'd throw my two cents in there. I hope all goes well for you. Thanks!

Nick

yor the biggest vegan i have yet to hear about

**realmxofxnoise** · 05-28-2004, 07:38 AM

HaHa - the "V-Word" huh? Guess veganism is looked down upon around here huh? I really need to get a diet plan (based on my vegan diet) that's going to meet the requirements with my training. I keep reading different things, some of you mentioned loads of carbs in some of the sample diets and a lot of protein, etc and others are sticking to such low carbs. Any help is good to me, but I have to keep the vegan diet of course.

When doing research on MMA fighters, etc - such as Mark Kerr, Heath Herring, appears my diet is more comparable to theirs. For instance, Heath mentioned "I eat more fruits and vegetables, cut out carbonated drinks, and work on cardiovascular training." Mark Kerr mentioned that he pretty much eats 2-4g of carbs per kg of weight. So we're looking at anywhere between 214 - 428g of carbs if I'm not mistaken. Anyway, I'm continously trying to get a plan that's right for me, so I'll keep looking, love the posts, thanks for all the info - lets keep up the great work.

Ciao,

- Nick

**realmxofxnoise** · 05-28-2004, 07:40 AM

Spoon - I can't tell you how many people don't beleive I'm vegan, lol. My brother and I are just big ****ers for some reason, haha. I'm just looking to drop a lil' weight and cut up a bit eventually, I'm starting to notice my back work out is working :- ) One good sign.

Ciao,

- Nick

**Spoon** · 05-28-2004, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by realmxofxnoise

Spoon - I can't tell you how many people don't beleive I'm vegan, lol. My brother and I are just big ****ers for some reason, haha. I'm just looking to drop a lil' weight and cut up a bit eventually, I'm starting to notice my back work out is working :- ) One good sign.

Ciao,

- Nick

bro, its a matter of personal preference. we respect your choices and do not look down on vegans at all. we just get ticked off when v's come here and preach that their diet is the one and only etc. etc. For what its worth im impressed and admire your continued dedication to achieving your goals. keep up the good work and good luck

**realmxofxnoise** · 05-28-2004, 07:47 AM

Thanks brotha. Appreciated of course. I definitely don't think that my (a vegan) diet is the only way to go. I get mighty pissed at people that preach like that about various things, including diet, etc. I just feel a vegan diet is definitely best for me, I feel a hell of a lot better, etc. And course, it's helping the earth, and I'm of course one of those weird-o environmentally concious assholes, hahahaha. Thanks again, and hope to talk more.

Ciao,

- Nick

**daman1** · 05-28-2004, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by realmxofxnoise

Thanks brotha. Appreciated of course. I definitely don't think that my (a vegan) diet is the only way to go. I get mighty pissed at people that preach like that about various things, including diet, etc. I just feel a vegan diet is definitely best for me, I feel a hell of a lot better, etc. And course, it's helping the earth, and I'm of course one of those weird-o environmentally concious assholes, hahahaha. Thanks again, and hope to talk more.

Ciao,

- Nick

Your not an asshole. I just took a Scienece, Energy and Environment course and learned a whole bunch of sh*t. It is cool of you to be down with trying to help the environment and what not. Lord knows we need to..

**realmxofxnoise** · 05-28-2004, 08:41 AM

Thanks bro. Glad to hear you learned a bunch sh*t - heh! Keep up the good mind set :- )

**SwoleCat** · 05-28-2004, 09:08 AM

How is being a Vegan helping the earth?

I understand it may help YOU, and I respect the choice for yourself, but being that humans have teeth, we are carnivores, and considering the food chain and natural selection, I don't see how being vegan helps the earth w/an already established/natural method of survival.

Again, don't wanna start an issue here, I was just curious as to what you meant. Recycling helps the earth, yeah, but eating a tree instead of a rib-eye doesn't isn't gonna change much.

~SC~

**realmxofxnoise** · 05-28-2004, 09:26 AM

SwoleCat, I appreciate your interest. With factory farming in the world these days, consuming a vegan diet does more than help the earth. It really makes a difference. Take for instance, this statistic:

1 Acre of prime land can produce the following:
- 23,000lbs of potato's
- 18,000lbs of corn
- and 27,000lbs of beans.

Or it can produce 250lbs of beef.

Obviously you know what will feed more. And with factory farming, the land used to raise cattle for beef ends up being destroyed, so further growing after the cattle is really hard, and makes for wasted land resources. If the world continues to eat as much meat and dairy as we do, our resources will be so dipleated that we won't be able to feed the people in the near future. I hope this makes sense.

On another note, though we have teeth (a lot of people's reasoning for eating meat) does not mean we are meant to eat meat. Our k-9 teeth are really good for biting into fruits such as apples, and grains, etc. Try to go out to a cow, jump on his back and take a bite, did anything happen? Besides getting kicked off and possibly trampled, lol. Just a scenario to think about, seeing as it's our factory's that are proving the conveience of meat consuming.

Another way the meat industry is harming the enviroment for example is the run off we experience for manur of the animals that we are consuming. The excretement runs off into our water system, causing toxins to pollute of course. And another thing, I'm sure we've all heard of "Mad Cow" isn't helping much either. Causing problems not only in humans, but in animals as well. This is usually caused when feeding the remains of other animals to animals. For instance cannabalism. Feeding cow and chicken remains to other cows and chickens. Definitely not normal, seeing as both of these animals are naturally vegetarian animals. I hope this helps, and if you want more info, I'm sure I can type for days, lol. I'm a freak when it comes to knowledge on this type of stuff, always trying to do research etc.

Like you said - no need to get into a debactle about this on this board, and we aren't arguing so to speak, just speaking nicely - keep up the great mind, and your knowledge on fitness is amazing, keep sharing that with me, I'd love to feed my head with that as I said - I'm a knowledge junkie, haha!

Talk to you soon,

- Nick

**SwoleCat** · 05-28-2004, 10:06 AM

Cool beans bro! I wasn't meaning just steak/cows, but all forms of meat and fish, eggs, etc.......

Unfortunately I love steak too much to change anything,

As well, I know that for my body/goals/life/career, my current eating habits are exactly what I need to maintain. I like to help the environment too, but I'm not going to hold myself back from what I can obtain to try and do that, not through this means anyhow.

Thanks for the response however!

~SC~

**ONaMission** · 05-28-2004, 10:10 AM

those teeth might not be good for taking a bite out of a 2000 pound cow, but their **** good if you want to bite the head off a chicken

**realmxofxnoise** · 05-28-2004, 10:23 AM

SwoleCat - definitely man, I love me some meat too, hahaha! I just for some reason took a look at life about seven years ago and decided to stop eating it. Still miss it on occasion especially when momma is whippin' up a nice steak or a nice Italian meal, haha.

ONaMission - yeah buddy, meat is some good ****, heh. I'm not a vegan that says disgusting to meat, ha! I love it. HaHa Hope all is well with everyone.

Ciao,

- Nick

**AandF6969** · 05-28-2004, 12:24 PM

Here's an amusing picture for ya, vegan dude. I got it from http://maddox.xmission.com/sponsor.html

I think my thread got hijacked...

**bad_man** · 05-28-2004, 02:08 PM

I wasn't a vegan but I was a vegetarian for about a year. A lot of my friends were, so I thought I'd give it a shot. No moral or dietary issue, just wanted to see if I'd feel different. What shocked me was how aggressive other people were, demanding to know why I wouldn't eat meat and tell me how dumb I was. What the hell? I wasn't pulling any burgers out of anyone's mouth. Anyway, i love meat and can't live without it so I'll end my story at that.

**Lozgod** · 05-28-2004, 03:18 PM

Well I have read 3 of Dr. Atkins books. I have been under 50 grams of carbs a day for 4 months. I run 30 minutes EOD, my lipids are pretty **** good, my blood pressure fell from extremely high to almost perfect, I haven't lost a single bit of muscle either. When you consume enough protein your body does not consume muscle, it consumes the protein you eat.

The norm is always up for revision. Two years ago the same people that would say do not pyramid your cycle now, were pyramiding their cycles then. Me personally, I love new information. The main source of carbs I get are from green vegatables.

I say do your own research and your own trial and error. I did and I am glad I did. There are more and more studies saying that Low Carb is more healthful and more beneficial for FAT loss than low fat. There are even studies saying that saturated fat may not be the cause of heart disease, but it may be the trans-fatty acids found in margarine and vegatable oils that the AHA has been pushing for years and years.

I believe sugar not fat is the enemy from research and blood tests.

Do what works for you.

**SwoleCat** · 05-28-2004, 03:34 PM

I believe the exact same.

~SC~

**TheChosenOne** · 05-28-2004, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

I believe the exact same.

~SC~

Swole when you say you believe the same thing I am guessing you agree with the principles not the carb amounts. I am pretty sure you advocate much more than 50g C throughout an entire working day. I realize this is all PWO but just want to clarify this in case i have a misunderstanding.

**SwoleCat** · 05-28-2004, 07:07 PM

Doesn't matter what diet or where the carbs are, just NOT Atkins/Keto for a long term approach.

~SC~

**Lozgod** · 05-28-2004, 07:14 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Doesn't matter what diet or where the carbs are, just NOT Atkins/Keto for a long term approach.

~SC~

I don't know if you read the books but Atkins is a 4 step diet/lifestyle change. Depending on your carb tolerance level you may be able to eat 2 or 300 grams of carbs a day. I think alot of people that bash the Atkins diet haven't read his books. I bashed it when I was going off of other peoples info that it was nothing but eggs, bacon, and steak, when in fact it isnt. Lots of veggies and low glycemic index carbs.

As far as cutting goes, if there are no carbs the body uses fat as an alternative source of fuel.....so why use carbs as fuel when you can use bodyfat???? Keep protein intake high enough and lose no muscle....makes sense to me that's why I do it.

**Lozgod** · 05-28-2004, 07:23 PM

Swolecat, I just got one question. What was your BF% in that picture? I am gonna guess and say 3. Am I right?

**SwoleCat** · 05-28-2004, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

I don't know if you read the books but Atkins is a 4 step diet/lifestyle change. Depending on your carb tolerance level you may be able to eat 2 or 300 grams of carbs a day. I think alot of people that bash the Atkins diet haven't read his books. I bashed it when I was going off of other peoples info that it was nothing but eggs, bacon, and steak, when in fact it isnt. Lots of veggies and low glycemic index carbs.

As far as cutting goes, if there are no carbs the body uses fat as an alternative source of fuel.....so why use carbs as fuel when you can use bodyfat???? Keep protein intake high enough and lose no muscle....makes sense to me that's why I do it.

I'm familiar w/the program, yes.

~SC~

**SwoleCat** · 05-28-2004, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

Swolecat, I just got one question. What was your BF% in that picture? I am gonna guess and say 3. Am I right?

Yup, about 3 that day.......that was a long day!

~SC~

**elicotton** · 05-28-2004, 07:57 PM

I have to admit that I didn't lose muscle on the diet, and I did lose fat. That wasn't the problem I had so much as a loss of training intensity and recovery. I have since upped my carbs from 30 per day to 75, 100 on workout days. This has significantly sped up recovery. BTW, 75-100 grams of carbs is still considered low-carb by most anyone.

Lozgod, I agree that most who bash Atkins don't have first-hand experience. I first read one of his books back in the eighties and have kept up to date since. I've got to admit it rankles me somewhat when I go out to eat with someone and they check out my order and say, "Oh, you must be doing Atkins! I read about that in Mens Health, Cosmo, (whatever), I think you're asking for a heart attack!" Usually these are the folks who are outta breath just from waddling from the car to the resturant table.

I'm going to frickin come loose on one of these poor mf someday!

**daman1** · 05-28-2004, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

Doesn't matter what diet or where the carbs are, just NOT Atkins/Keto for a long term approach.

~SC~

Atkins for life would suck a$$ as thats what your going to have to do forever if you wish to keep the weight off you lost with atkins..

**Lozgod** · 05-28-2004, 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by daman1

Atkins for life would suck a$$ as thats what your going to have to do forever if you wish to keep the weight off you lost with atkins..

No not really. If you read the books and not 2 paragraph articles it is a very normal diet. I'll take a steak over a piece of bread anyday so it doesnt seem sucky to me.

Since when does avoid sugar, refined flour, and transfats a bad thing because if you educate yourself on the diet thats what it is.

**Lozgod** · 05-28-2004, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by elicotton

I think you're asking for a heart attack!" Usually these are the folks who are outta breath just from waddling from the car to the resturant table.

I'm going to frickin come loose on one of these poor mf someday!

Yeah it raises HDL's and lower triglycerides and LDL's. That is heart attack prevention but these idiots that know nothing about it say the same **** to me. Telling me I'm gonna have a heart attack and they dont even know their blood pressure or lipid levels. I used to get pissed but now I just nod and smile.........unless I'm on 50 mg of Dbol that day..

hehe

**daman1** · 05-29-2004, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Lozgod

No not really. If you read the books and not 2 paragraph articles it is a very normal diet. I'll take a steak over a piece of bread anyday so it doesnt seem sucky to me.

Since when does avoid sugar, refined flour, and transfats a bad thing because if you educate yourself on the diet thats what it is.

Do enjoy your burger with no bun?

**SwoleCat** · 05-29-2004, 09:48 AM

Hhahah, yeah f*ck that, there is bulking season and there are cheat days, and those include buns like a motha f*cka......

No one should have to do keto for life unless it's for seizure prevention.

~SC~

**Spoon** · 05-29-2004, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by SwoleCat

How is being a Vegan helping the earth?

I understand it may help YOU, and I respect the choice for yourself, but being that humans have teeth, we are carnivores, and considering the food chain and natural selection, I don't see how being vegan helps the earth w/an already established/natural method of survival.

Again, don't wanna start an issue here, I was just curious as to what you meant. Recycling helps the earth, yeah, but eating a tree instead of a rib-eye doesn't isn't gonna change much.

~SC~

Recycling helps the earth, yeah, but eating a tree instead of a rib-eye doesn't isn't gonna change much.

classic sc thats all i needed to hear

**SwoleCat** · 05-29-2004, 10:11 AM

Glad you liked it, lol.....

He did have one point about land area and raising cattle as opposed to vegetation. However, I don't think that issue or those similar even register on the list of what really matters when considering the state our country/world is currently in.

Not on my list anyhow. I'm in this world for ME, and "me be a meat eater".....

~SC~

**Mu'min** · 05-29-2004, 03:30 PM

I tried to cut back on my meat consumption once. It was the longest day of my life.

**Lozgod** · 05-29-2004, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by daman1

Do enjoy your burger with no bun?

They have low carb buns now. Made without sugar. Even the so-called healthy whole wheat breads are loaded with High Fructose Corn Syrup. Or just stick the burger patty in between two other burger patties.