atkins question

**carbs_needed** · 03-21-2002, 11:06 AM

I am in my third day of atkins diet. When will my body go into ketosis? i know I can go buy those ketostix, but really do not need 100 of them. will my cravings for carbs subside somewhat when I get into ketosis? and also, when should I incorporate carbs back into my body and how many?

**edraven29** · 03-21-2002, 11:30 AM

Hi, i have been doing about the same thing has you have, sort of body opus thing, carbs free for 5 days and weekend you carb up, you really have to play with all of this for a while to see how it works and what works for you.

Personnaly i have a sweet tooth and last night i gave in, i add a headack so i hate some sugar.

Lot of contraversy on all of this good bad ,,,,,,

For me i have lost about 6-7 pounds in my first week, mostly water, when you hit ketosis you feel quit bad but this last about a day or two, i have lost my cravings for carb but they come back from time to time, this is why a good fat burner is very useful in this diet, it cuts your appetit and even your sugar cravings.

If you dont wanna lose to much muscles you can try this carb free for 5 days and then 2 days on the weekend where you can eat carbs.

Contrary to many i dont think that you have carte blanche to eat all the fat and protein you want, last week i lived on cheese and bacon , i was stalled on my weightloss, i cut these out and now get my fats from oils, omega 3, more natural source.

Bacon has so much fat and sodium.

I can feel my pants looser and seeing my love handles shrink is the best thing and all worth the sacrifice.

I am 207 right now from 212 last week, after weekend carb up ( again you have to watch the carbs not to take in to much or you will gain all the weight you lost during the week in 2 days), if its done correctly and you gain some it will be water not fat.

Started at 215-217 went down to 212 then mistake too much carbs so went back at 214 then been more strick and am now at 207.

I dont bother with ketostix or testing blood glucose at all, even if your not 100% in ketosis you will still lose some fat for sure becose its low carb ( usually below 20g a day)

Watch for hidden carbs too, cheese has some, sweetners will cause a rise in insuline and more).

Good luck its tought but the results are well worth the price you pay

**carbs_needed** · 03-21-2002, 11:36 AM

Thanks for the tips! How long have you been doing this?? I have dropped 3 lbs, all water, but want to start to see the shrinking of the love handles. Like I said, this is only my third day, but after another week, will I then see the handles start to deflate?

**beenie** · 03-21-2002, 12:23 PM

The ketostick are really a good investment if you are just starting. Honestly, 100 only cost about $8. Splurge man, you only live once.

The important thing is that you can confirm whether you are in Ketosis and at what level. It is important because even if you think you are being really good, you may be taking in carbs from unsuspected sources. The Ketostyx will confirm that you are and if they do not, it will help you go back and figure out where your carbs are coming from.

**carbs_needed** · 03-21-2002, 12:38 PM

I'd buy them for $8. But where can I get them? GNC sells them for about $20. not spending that much on a stick that I will piss on to see if I am burning stored fat

**beenie** · 03-21-2002, 01:22 PM

Its entirely up to you whether you think its worth the money. If you are shopping at GNC you are definitely paying too much (for everything they sell). They typically chage about 40% more on everything they sell than just about everyone else. Infact, they often charge more than full retail.

If you live in New York I can give you places to go, but you would be kind of blind to miss them. I did a quick price lookup on drugstore.com and they charge $10.99 for 100, more than I pay, but still substantially lower than GNC.

You can also try your local chain pharmacy in K-Mart or Target and see if you can get a better deal there. My guess would be that you can.

**carbs_needed** · 03-21-2002, 02:08 PM

don't live in nyc, but will try target of kmart. good idea, thanks!

**beenie** · 03-21-2002, 02:48 PM

Oh, and I never really answered the other part of your question directly. If you are doing the Atkins diet bu the book (Atkins' book that is) the indiuction stage lasts 5 days where you try to hold your carb count to around 10g/day. At this rate, and assuming you were previously on a normal diet before and that you have not inatvertently ingested carbs from some of those killer sources of which edraven29 referred, it ordinarily takes about three days to go into Ketosis.

I think edraven29 said that he lost 7 lbs his first week. I lost 10 on mine but I started out quite portly. My second week I lost another 8. My doctor told me it was unhealthy, but very few people are telling me I look unhealthy now.

**carbs_needed** · 03-21-2002, 02:54 PM

sweeeeet

I have three lbs in my three days so far

It is tough right now but look forward to rewarding myself on sunday. then back to 6 days of carb deprivation, then repeat

oh, btw, I called target, et. al., and the boxes of ketostix were $10.99 but only for 50 stix. I went to drugstore.com and saw 50 stix for $8. I went with that, Ijust hope I am not waiting 4 weeks for delivery

**beenie** · 03-22-2002, 03:22 PM

50 styx is plenty. They are really more important when you first start low carbing to make sure you are doing it right. After you become old hat at it, whether you are in Ketosis or not loses importance because you will just be trying to maintain your weight.

I am at a point where I use carbs to regulate my weight now. I eat them until I begin to gain (primarily because they are tasty), but then cut them back to get back to where I want to be.

It took me a very long time to get to this point. I started out ugly and fat. Now, I am proud to say I am ugly and skinny!

I am being a bit facetious, because since adding some muscle to my thin base I actually look better now than I ever have before. It helps in all aspects of life. People tell me I look great, and I am inclined to believe them. It lends itself to being more confidant in life. Helps with the ladies -- helps professionally.

To get back to your point rather than continuing to brag about my success (which I love to do), I think your goal is really good, and that you are taking all of the right steps to achieve it. If you stick to your commitment all the time, not just when it is convenient, you will get the results you are looking for.

I think the $8 you spent was a wise investment because it’s an investment in you that cannot hurt your progress and may help it. The ketostyx also are gratifying because they are physical evidence that you are headed in the right direction. I went through a brief period when I was overweight that I had stopped losing weight, yet the ketostix were turning purple. As long as they are turning purple, there is nothing to worry about.

I wish you all the best in your imminent success. Keep us posted and inform us of your progress.

**chuck** · 03-22-2002, 07:06 PM

the atkins diet is the way to go, my mother is on it and lost 60 pounds in 8 months, best shape of her life. i'm really proud of her. keep up the good work guys the atkins really works just dont cheat, and if you do get right back on the track. good luck bro's

**llbeastcd** · 03-24-2002, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by beenie
The important thing is that you can confirm whether you are in Ketosis and at what level. It is important because even if you think you are being really good, you may be taking in carbs from unsuspected sources. The Ketostyx will confirm that you are and if they do not, it will help you go back and figure out where your carbs are coming from.

Just remember that being in ketosis does not garantee fat loss. As Lyle says, "the only thing that ketosis will garantee is that your breath will stink and your pee will look funny". Something like that.

Bottom line... it's still gonna be about calories in-calories out.

**edraven29** · 03-25-2002, 07:34 AM

congratulation to your mother chuck, 60 pounds is great.

No matter what people say low carb really work, but are not for everybody. I add to make my diet drastic becose i was always losing discipline, now i was able to cure sweet tooths and huge sugar cravings with low carb.

Plus i dont eat all the fat meats, like in atkins, i try to get my fats from omega 3 and oils instead of bacon.

**dumbells101** · 03-25-2002, 09:35 AM

Many studies suggest that there is a significant toll placed on the liver when on a ketogenic diet. You see the body does not recognise ketones as a good thing and therefore frantically flushes them out (hence a large drop in weight) which is primarily water. That fact alone is enough to tell you something isn't right about the diet. Secondly, and more important this type of diet does not teach you how to change your lifestyle or teach any healthy aspect of eating.

Here's what we need to know. Carbs are are primary source for fuel. Eat more than your insulin can force into the muscles for stored energy and you'll gain bodyfat.

**edraven29** · 03-25-2002, 11:31 AM

Well i dont really know what is right and what s not with these diets.

Look at beenie and most of the people who have lost well over 100 pounds, this cant all be water, their has to be fatloss in there too.

I have also lost 30 pounds once in 1998 went from 208 to about 174 or so really cut that was not all water too.

the thing i am doing now that i didnt do then is that on weekends i carb up, and i am not gonna do this for the rest of my life your right its not really a way of eating, a well balance diet is the best way of eating, but more and more people today are cutting out breads, pasta and rice and losing weight.

My girlfriend didnt eat that much rice yet she hit a plateau at 135 pounds , now after cutting here carbs she is on track again.

I guess that the best book for low carbing out there is the carb addicted diet, you can have a reward meal a day with carbs has long has you eat salade with it and protein, i tryed it and it really works.

THe thing i have noticed too is that your craving for sweets tend to go away after sometime and when you do eat sweets on weekend they just dont taste the same and you sort of feel guilty.

bottom line is you gotta see what works for you, a guy at my job has a six pack year round and he eats fucking cookies and chips and all the carbs in the world, is body respons well to carbs, me if i eat a muffin watch out blowted like hell.

**dumbells101** · 03-26-2002, 08:48 AM

Another good book on carbohydrates is Sugar Busters. Most people gain weight not because of carbs but because of either the serving size or TYPE of carb. For example white potatoes depending on how cooked can rate as high as 80 on the Glycemic index but, sweet potatoes around 54. The higher the number the faster the carb is absorbed into the blood stream. Consequently, insulin is produced to coax the carb into the muscles for stored energy, however if there is either too much in the blood stream or the carb raises your blood sugar too quickly, then insulins second job is to slow down the rate of absorbtion and it does this via storing some of those carbs as fat.

Even so there is no doubt that people lose weight on Atkins or any other low carb diet. I am not flaming anyone, rather want everyone to be educated for the long term. There is not much protein or nutrients in fat so when you lose weight you lose both muscle, fat and water on low carb diets. Remember that your lean mass requires calories and if you provide the body with less than it needs then you'll have a slower metabolism and the potential to lose precious lean mass, and unless you're consuming 300-400 grams of protein (not easy to do) you stand to be at a calorie deficit. IMO it is just not healthy long term.

**beenie** · 03-26-2002, 11:43 AM

ILBeasted said:
Just remember that being in ketosis does not garantee fat loss. As Lyle says, "the only thing that ketosis will garantee is that your breath will stink and your pee will look funny". Something like that.

Well I am not sure you are correct in your statement ILBEASTED, because Ketosis, BY DEFINITION means that you are eliminating fat. That is fundimental to low carbs dieting. When you go into ketosis your body turns to using fat as an energy source (rather than carbs). That is why your urine smells funny. Essentally you are urinating out your fat.

Sorry I had to be graphic folks, but someone had to explain it.

**carbs_needed** · 03-26-2002, 11:47 AM

still going strong. although, i cheated on sunday by having a bunch of pancakes. the insulin rush was so bad that i had to lie down for an hour...but it was worth it. lost 5 pounds in 5 days, mostly water, but the fat is now starting to shave off. we will see how it goes in week #2

oh, any recipe suggestions would be much obliged (must be somewhat creative........)

**beenie** · 03-26-2002, 11:56 AM

Sorry to feel the need to reiterate my position, but here goes:

Dumbells says that many studies sugesst that low carb diets may be dangerous to your liver. He is correct. What he has not said is that there is no proof that it will or documentation of instances where it actually has.

Aside from that, Dumbells I have no problem with anything you have reported.

I think that low carb dieting can reduce body fat levels for anyone, and it should be a matter of choice, as for what you can live with.

Look at Terinox. he has been following a traditional diet for several months and introduced cardio. He hasn't lost a pound. Assuming his goals are still to lose body fat (and I am not sure since he is talking about eating peanut butter and rice cakes), I think he might be an excellent candidate. A lot of people are incapable of sticking to traditional diets and ARE able to stick to low carb.

We know both work, because there is no way all of my 100lb loss is ALL water weight.

Since reintroducing carbs to my diet, by the way my weight is creeping up. I am going to begin to lower my carbs back down and I know that it will come off.

**Pete235** · 03-26-2002, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by beenie
We know both work, because there is no way all of my 100lb loss is ALL water weight.

No...but it sure as hell wasn't all fat either. The point is Terinox wants to be lean AND muscular. Going ultra low carbs will surely help him lose weight, but he will also lose muscle. The best way to reach his goals is to stick to a high protein, moderate carb and moderate fat diet (with some variation up and down), to continue cardio and to lift heavy....build muscle burn fat. I applaud the fact that you lost all that weight Beenie and I don't begrudge you that...I also respect your passion for High protein, low carb dieting...but I REALLY don't think that most people on this board want to be just lean...they want that balance of leaness AND muscle. Low carb is NOT going to give them that...period!

**beenie** · 03-26-2002, 12:32 PM

But Pete, Terinox's is doing just what you say and it ISN'T working for him.

**llbeastcd** · 03-26-2002, 07:05 PM

Originally posted by beenie
Well I am not sure you are correct in your statement ILBEASTED, because Ketosis, BY DEFINITION means that you are eliminating fat. That is fundimental to low carbs dieting. When you go into ketosis your body turns to using fat as an energy source (rather than carbs). That is why your urine smells funny. Essentally you are urinating out your fat.

Sorry I had to be graphic folks, but someone had to explain it.

Sorry to disagree, but ketosis by DEFINITION is NOT elminating fat. It simply means that you are relying on ketones as the primary source of energy during carb restriction. Secondary energy sources are dietary fat and... here's the key... FFA's being released from fat stores IF and only IF you are in a calorie deficit.

The "eat as much as you want" principle is severely misunderstood by those following an Atkins type diet. Essentially, the studies show that individuals by default wind up eating less calories because of the high satiety levels found in fat. That coupled with the absence of insulin spikes diminishes overall hunger and one consequently eats less.

Fat doesn't have a smell. Ketones do. Ketones are excreted as a byproduct of ketosis.

**llbeastcd** · 03-26-2002, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by dumbells101
Another good book on carbohydrates is Sugar Busters. Most people gain weight not because of carbs but because of either the serving size or TYPE of carb. For example white potatoes depending on how cooked can rate as high as 80 on the Glycemic index but, sweet potatoes around 54. The higher the number the faster the carb is absorbed into the blood stream. Consequently, insulin is produced to coax the carb into the muscles for stored energy, however if there is either too much in the blood stream or the carb raises your blood sugar too quickly, then insulins second job is to slow down the rate of absorbtion and it does this via storing some of those carbs as fat.

Even so there is no doubt that people lose weight on Atkins or any other low carb diet. I am not flaming anyone, rather want everyone to be educated for the long term. There is not much protein or nutrients in fat so when you lose weight you lose both muscle, fat and water on low carb diets. Remember that your lean mass requires calories and if you provide the body with less than it needs then you'll have a slower metabolism and the potential to lose precious lean mass, and unless you're consuming 300-400 grams of protein (not easy to do) you stand to be at a calorie deficit. IMO it is just not healthy long term.

I agree with a lot being said here. However, 300-400 grams of protein is not necessary to supplement the absence of carbs. Carbs are replaced by dietary fat for the most part and although protein intake is critical, so is dietary fat. Let us not forget that dietary fat is used for energy at the rate of 9 calories per gram and in the absence of carbs becomes more vital to maintain a high intake. It suggested that LC weight trainers do take in carbs through a TKD or CKD type program. This is to replace lost glycogen stores in the muscle. The theory being that a "refeed" will be immediately used to replenish lost glycogen and if taken in properly will not get stored as fat. The recommended protein intake for those training while on a CKD or TKD is 150-200 grams... but can simply be measured by asking this question... How many grams of protein does your body need regularly?

I'm not a LC flag waver by any means. But LC type programs are often misunderstood. Every body reacts differently, but a LC type program should not be rejected nor accepted merely on principle.

**edraven29** · 03-27-2002, 05:17 AM

Your right illbeastcd, even on a low carb diet calories count, i was stuck on week 2 becose i was eating too much, after reajusting calories i got my weight going again.

**beenie** · 03-27-2002, 10:10 AM

That's educational llbeastcd. I just learned something. The only part that I am not clear on is why I lost 100 lbs. I was taking in more calories (or at least I think I was). My appitite has never been surpressed (even though Atkins said it would be). I always ate huge quantites of food, probably more on atkins than when I was on a tradional diet because i never felt filled up (particularly after a workout).

In all fairness I must confess that I started my cardio regime around the same time I started my diet, so i am not sure how much each factor contributed to my success. What I do know is that when I had tried cardio alone prior to that, I had only been able to lose 10 lbs or so and from 275 to 265 is not much imporovemt.

***Cycleon*** · 03-27-2002, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by llbeastcd

Sorry to disagree, but ketosis by DEFINITION is NOT elminating fat. It simply means that you are relying on ketones as the primary source of energy during carb restriction. Secondary energy sources are dietary fat and... here's the key... FFA's being released from fat stores IF and only IF you are in a calorie deficit.

The "eat as much as you want" principle is severely misunderstood by those following an Atkins type diet. Essentially, the studies show that individuals by default wind up eating less calories because of the high satiety levels found in fat. That coupled with the absence of insulin spikes diminishes overall hunger and one consequently eats less.

Fat doesn't have a smell. Ketones do. Ketones are excreted as a byproduct of ketosis.

Exactly - that is well stated by someone who obviously read my "adipose tissue" thread (or already knew that

)

**BIGTEX** · 04-01-2002, 09:32 PM

Ketosis is a horrible state for any athlete or weight lifter to put their body in... may as well go live in the desert for a week... Atkins makes me puke

**beenie** · 04-02-2002, 09:49 AM

I came back from Thailand recently. I was wondering why the people there were so lean, yet they eat like pigs. After observing I noticed its basicly a low carb diet they are on.

Guess they are not good athletes, but wow they look lean.

**firedup** · 04-02-2002, 11:30 AM

it is all about where you get your carbs and when you eat them.
a handful os Skittles is 532 calories all sugar. thats like 10 baked potatos.

always eat clean.

My doctor told me this about lossing weight and low carbs.
he said cut out anything white. rice, potato, bread, sugars,
and no pop ever, even diet. it will make you crave the real stuff.

chicken and tuna cottage cheese, salad with real oil.
it may be plain, but when it comes down to the very bottom line ask yourself what do you want?

A cheese burger or to get laid?

you make the choice.

**Buddha_Red** · 11-06-2002, 07:46 AM

hey guys

Look up my guiltfree popcicles. They really will save your butt and they are 1/2 a carb and no cals!

Its a pain to buy the molds but i found two at a local dollar store.

Heh i dont mind eating low carb but i NEED sweets from time to time!!