Dextrose=simple sugar=Table sugar/syrup?.....

[guest589745]

If dextrose is simple sugar then can I just take some table sugar in PWO or anything sugary for that matter? Or should I spend 10 bucks on a "dextrose" supplement?

[gio86]

nice question bro i really want to see an aswer for this cause i need it. sorry i just responded to say that but hopefully someone comes up with and answer

[steve0]

dude i just use HONEY it the best 1 table spoon befre workout and 1 after keeps my muscles full a wole all day

[guest589745]

Is dextrose the same as maltodextrin?

[steve0]

no but simliar i think Dex is better but just use honey man great stuff and cheap

[SexyKitty]

Is dextrose the same as maltodextrin?

Maltodextrin comes from corn starch, it is several dextrose molecules linked together by weak hydrogen bonds

[guest589745]

So I take it dextrose is a better idea aka HONEY. Any more?

[SexyKitty]

Honey is low GI (35) vs dextrose wich is high GI (100). Post work-out it is prefered to injest an easily digestible high GI carb with your protein drink so yes dextrose. Some people take dextrose, some maltodextrin, some a blend of both. There are some theories that think it is better to injest a blend of maltodextrin and dextrose. I really dont know if it makes THAT much of a difference if you take one, or a blend, but in all honesty I havnt researched it much to really know.

[guest589745]

Thanks kitty,



why cant MY GF have a back like you?

[*Narkissos*]

Honey is low GI (35) vs dextrose wich is high GI (100). Post work-out it is prefered to injest an easily digestible high GI carb with your protein drink so yes dextrose.

Ditto.

Honey is out...as it is composed mainly of fructose...which altho a glucose isomer...isn't assimilated quickly as glucose is. It generally is assimilated with preference by the liver..to replenish the liver's glycogen stores... Obviously this isn't ideal post-training.

Sucrose is out generally...it can be used in a pinch...It is a disaccharide..i.e. composed of two sugars (fructose and glucose)...i.e. it's assimilation, tho reasonably quick, doesn't equal or rival that of pure glucose.

Dextrose monohydrate (i.e. Glucose) packs the most bang for the buck. Pound for pound i don't think it's more expensive than table sugar...but even if it is ( by a little) it's worth it. Buy it in bulk from online.

~Nark

[drinu]

i choose oats post workout as if sugar is bad ,it should be bad all the time so why not go with natural food as much as possible i like to mix oats with a banana and whey for my post workout

[IronFreakX]

dextrose is natural....

but yeah i dont take dex...no proof on insulin increasing protein synthesis....all it does is blunt protein wasting..prolysiidjiuiss(sp) .....oats+honey , rice , bananas all good and they do blunt the protein wasting too

[SexyKitty]

dextrose is natural....

but yeah i dont take dex...no proof on insulin increasing protein synthesis....all it does is blunt protein wasting..prolysiidjiuiss(sp) .....oats+honey , rice , bananas all good and they do blunt the protein wasting too

Let me ask you guys this, not challenging, just wondering. How about the fact that after lifting there are high levels of cortisol in your body, essentialy your in a catabolic state. Wouldnt we want to take something that stimultes insulin release fairly quickly (therefore suppresing cortisol) and putting us back into an anabolic state? I mean yes, our muscles are more receptive to insulin while excercising but because of cortisol, insulin levels are lower. Just a question, what do you guys think?

[Giantz11]

Let me ask you guys this, not challenging, just wondering. How about the fact that after lifting there are high levels of cortisol in your body, essentialy your in a catabolic state. Wouldnt we want to take something that stimultes insulin release fairly quickly (therefore suppresing cortisol) and putting us back into an anabolic state? I mean yes, our muscles are more receptive to insulin while excercising but because of cortisol, insulin levels are lower. Just a question, what do you guys think?

I'll answer this one, lifting in and of itself is anti-catabolic as well. When you peform exercise you release GH which last for about and Hour post workout. With the GH release you also have the anti-catabolic effects of GH, meaning that catabolism is highly overrated post workout. On top of that if you take the proper nutritional steps you shouldn't be that catabolic anyways upon lifting, eating a carb/pro meal before lifting would help serisouly diminish catabolism. One more point is that after weight lifting you are extremely insulin sensitive, any type of carb souce, Hi-GI, Low-Gi will produce an insulin response, any insulin reponce will be suffcient to immeadiately put a halt to proteolysis.

[SexyKitty]

I'll answer this one, lifting in and of itself is anti-catabolic as well. When you peform exercise you release GH which last for about and Hour post workout. With the GH release you also have the anti-catabolic effects of GH, meaning that catabolism is highly overrated post workout. On top of the if you take the proper nutritional steps you shouldn't be that catabolic anyways upon liftin, eating carbs before lifting would help serisouly diminish catabolism. One more point is that after weight lifting you are extremly insuln sensitive, any type of carb souce, Hi-GI, Low-Gi will produce an insulion reponse, an insulin reponce is enough to immeadiately put a halt to proteolysis.

If that's the case then why all the hype about dextrose? Again, just wondering. And also, wouldnt a prefered carb be one that passes through the stomach quickly in order to produce an insulin response. Dextrose is digested by salivary amylase so passes very quickly, whereas a complex carb like oats is passes through the stomach much more slowly and takes a lot longer to hit the blood stream and trigger the insulin response. I'm not sure, have to research more, but I didnt think that we were insulin sensitive for that long after lifting, what happened to the so called "window of opportunity"?

[Giantz11]

As a matter a fact its possible to be anabolic during your workout rather that catabolic:


Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise.

Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR.

Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA. ktipton@utmb.edu

The present study was designed to determine whether consumption of an oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement (EAC) before exercise results in a greater anabolic response than supplementation after resistance exercise. Six healthy human subjects participated in two trials in random order, PRE (EAC consumed immediately before exercise), and POST (EAC consumed immediately after exercise). A primed, continuous infusion of L-[ring-(2)H(5)]phenylalanine, femoral arteriovenous catheterization, and muscle biopsies from the vastus lateralis were used to determine phenylalanine concentrations, enrichments, and net uptake across the leg. Blood and muscle phenylalanine concentrations were increased by approximately 130% after drink consumption in both trials. Amino acid delivery to the leg was increased during exercise and remained elevated for the 2 h after exercise in both trials. Delivery of amino acids (amino acid concentration times blood flow) was significantly greater in PRE than in POST during the exercise bout and in the 1st h after exercise (P < 0.05). Total net phenylalanine uptake across the leg was greater (P = 0.0002) during PRE (209 +/- 42 mg) than during POST (81 +/- 19). Phenylalanine disappearance rate, an indicator of muscle protein synthesis from blood amino acids, increased after EAC consumption in both trials. These results indicate that the response of net muscle protein synthesis to consumption of an EAC solution immediately before resistance exercise is greater than that when the solution is consumed after exercise, primarily because of an increase in muscle protein synthesis as a result of increased delivery of amino acids to the leg.

[Giantz11]

Sexy.....read the thread, Info on insuline spikes. I show studies that clearly state that hyperinsulinemia shows no benefit to protein synthesis in vivo.

[Giantz11]

Also this study shows that the type of carb ingested PWO does not matter in terms of glycogen synthesis.

6.) Carbohydrate nutrition before, during, and after exercise.

Costill DL.

The role of dietary carbohydrates (CHO) in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen after prolonged, exhaustive exercise has been clearly demonstrated. The mechanisms responsible for optimal glycogen storage are linked to the activation of glycogen synthetase by depletion of glycogen and the subsequent intake of CHO. Although diets rich in CHO may increase the muscle glycogen stores and enhance endurance exercise performance when consumed in the days before the activity, they also increase the rate of CHO oxidation and the use of muscle glycogen. When consumed in the last hour before exercise, the insulin stimulated-uptake of glucose from blood often results in hypoglycemia, greater dependence on muscle glycogen, and an earlier onset of exhaustion than when no CHO is fed. Ingesting CHO during exercise appears to be of minimal value to performance except in events lasting 2 h or longer. The form of CHO (i.e., glucose, fructose, sucrose) ingested may produce different blood glucose and insulin responses, but the rate of muscle glycogen resynthesis is about the same regardless of the structure.

So it appears that honey indeed can be untilized.

[SexyKitty]

Sexy.....read the thread, Info on insuline spikes. I show studies that clearly state that hyperinsulinemia shows no benefit to protein synthesis in vivo.

Ok, I'll read it. I'm trying to learn as much as possible and then make my own decisions, since diet is the only thing I can truley manipulate to affect my results. I respect the fact that you do some much reading and research on these topics, you're obviously very well read on the subject. The trouble is most of these studies have such tiny sample sizes. I find it hard for myself to find much credibility in a study that has looked at only 6 people. There is not enough statistical significance in this, imo, to draw any definitive conclusions. I will not take it for granted though, I'll do some more reading and then decide.

*edited for typos, holy fvck I cant type*

[IronFreakX]

wut bout taking slin pwo?? useless then

[Giantz11]

No no no, takin slin post work out break the rules. Takin slin you def want a Hi-GI carb, and yes it would be beneficial because you are wokring at supraphysiological levels.

[Veretta21]

Don't really know what to say here----all I know is that for the last 5 years all I have heard is to take dextrose/maltodextrin pw along with your protein--every pw drink on the market by basically any company has these two ingredients in it---I'm sure they have done research on this subject---I'm still gonna stick with dextrose PW cause its been working---until I hear more on this--you have me curious though

[Giantz11]

Ok, I'll read it. I'm trying to learn as much as possible and then make my own decisions, since diet is the only thing I can truley manipulate to affect my results. I respect the fact that you do some much reading and research on these topics, you're obviously very well read on the subject. The trouble is most of these studies have such tiny sample sizes. I find it hard for myself to find much credibility in a study that has looked at only 6 people. There is not statistical ignificance in this, imo, to draw any definitive conclusions. I will not take it for granted though, I'll do some more reading and then decide.

I understand what you are tryin to say, but these studies are performed on healthy, resistance trained athletes to determine the phsyiological reactions to Carbs, Protein etc....These reactions will not be different in normal healthy people. I don't not believe that basic physiology changes from person to person, if you are taking about genetic disorders, diabetes etc....Then there are most def changes in hormonal responses.

[Giantz11]

Don't really know what to say here----all I know is that for the last 5 years all I have heard is to take dextrose/maltodextrin pw along with your protein--every pw drink on the market by basically any company has these two ingredients in it---I'm sure they have done research on this subject---I'm still gonna stick with dextrose PW cause its been working---until I hear more on this--you have me curious though

.
That's fine man, if it works that's the point. But just because supplement companies put it in their drink doesn't make it creadbile. if you examine which studies they actaully use, not one of them determines that hyperinsulinemia increases protein synthesis, does it increase the rate of glycogen synthesis, yes it does. but after most of us do weights, we aren't doing any further training. Go take a closer look at the studies that sup companies use (manipulate) they are done on edurance athletes that take a Hi-GI carb so that they can enhance glycogen synthesis so that they can participate in a further activity If you start poking around, most of their studies are outdated.

[Veretta21]

I was just saying that because I would think that supp. companies would research a subject to make sure their product works being that almost all supp. companies use either dextrose, maltodextrin, or combination of both---You got me worried now about using all that sugar in my body at one time

I got a question for you then---lets say I go to the gym and workout using weights---and then after lifting at the gym--drive like 15 minutes to a track and run doing sprints or a fast paced run along with some plyometrics---should I have my shake after the weights or should I weight until I am done at the track?

[SexyKitty]

I understand what you are tryin to say, but these studies are performed on healthy, resistance trained athletes to determine the phsyiological reactions to Carbs, Protein etc....These reactions will not be different in normal healthy people. I don't not believe that basic physiology changes from person to person, if you are taking about genetic disorders, diabetes etc....Then there are most def changes in hormonal responses.

True, but you have to take all types of people (healthy, obese, diabetes) etc in order to make it a truly meaningful study. For example, I'm sure not everyone on this board is "healthy", I have seen pictures, some people are in amazing condition, and some are quite overweight, some are skinny with little muscle mass who are trying to gain, and some have diabetes etc, so to only test it in a certain patient population, and only 6 people, does not make it significant to everyone. And although I havnt read all the studies you have sited, I have noticed that in several of them there isnt even a control arm. How can any conclsions be drawn without a control arm?

Sorry, again, I am not trying to be rude or challenging. It's just something to think about that some of these studies have to be taken with a grain of salt and cannot be extended to everyone.

[IronFreakX]

Best thing IMo..is try both method each for an average of 2 months..while measuring everything...then run the other method(while not changing nething else)

take numbers , %s , lift number etc....

and stick to wut yielded better results

[Veretta21]

Good looking---thanks Iron

[Giantz11]

True, but you have to take all types of people (healthy, obese, diabetes) etc in order to make it a truly meaningful study. For example, I'm sure not everyone on this board is "healthy", I have seen pictures, some people are in amazing condition, and some are quite overweight, some are skinny with little muscle mass who are trying to gain, and some have diabetes etc, so to only test it in a certain patient population, and only 6 people, does not make it significant to everyone. And although I havnt read all the studies you have sited, I have noticed that in several of them there isnt even a control arm. How can any conclsions be drawn without a control arm?

Sorry, again, I am not trying to be rude or challenging. It's just something to think about that some of these studies have to be taken with a grain of salt and cannot be extended to everyone.

These abstracts are not the only studies that state this conclusion, I will post an exerpt from Advanced Nutrition and the Human Metabolism that again states that hyperinsulinemia has not been shown to increase protein synthesis. I understand this goes against the grain here, and I'm not asking you to change. But there is science and studies that support what I'm saying and I have yet to see any science that can back creating a huge insulin spike increases protein synthesis, that's all. That is why I have chosen to switch. Also because I believe that in the long run spikin insulin is not good and the one can benefit from eating whole grains over pure sugar any day.

[SexyKitty]

These abstracts are not the only studies that state this conclusion, I will post an exerpt from Advanced Nutrition and the Human Metabolism that again states that hyperinsulinemia has not been shown to increase protein synthesis. I understand this goes against the grain here, and I'm not asking you to change. But there is science and studies that support what I'm saying and I have yet to see any science that can back creating a huge insulin spike increases protein synthesis, that's all. That is why I have chosen to switch. Also because I believe that in the long run spikin insulin is not good and the one can benefit from eating whole grains over pure sugar any day.

I'm just being devil's advocate. I have to read a ton of reprints every fvckin day and use them in my job and I get challenged ALL the time so I tend to look at things like the credibility of the reprint before I change my ways, since the people who I try to convince of certain things based on particular studies also do to me. One thing I also find important, like you stated above, is has it been proven MULTIPLE times. I'm not implying the studies you sited are wrong, nor am I implying the "norm" of taking dextrose is necessarily right. I just like to educate myself from all point of views.

[Giantz11]

I'm just being devil's advocate. I have to read a ton of reprints every fvckin day and use them in my job and I get challenged ALL the time so I tend to look at things like the credibility of the reprint before I change my ways, since the people who I try to convince of certain things based on particular studies also do to me. One thing I also find important, like you stated above, is has it been proven MULTIPLE times. I'm not implying the studies you sited are wrong, nor am I implying the "norm" of taking dextrose is necessarily right. I just like to educate myself from all point of views.

And I think that is the best way to go about things.

[Kärnfysikern]

I am "convinced" enough to try low gi post workout to say the least. Studies usualy dont lie If they arent manipulated or taken out of context.

[Giantz11]

Studies usualy dont lie If they arent manipulated or taken out of context.

Supplement companies wouldn't advocate this practice would they???

[Kärnfysikern]

Ditto.

Honey is out...as it is composed mainly of fructose...which altho a glucose isomer...isn't assimilated quickly as glucose is. It generally is assimilated with preference by the liver..to replenish the liver's glycogen stores... Obviously this isn't ideal post-training.
~Nark

I have always read that honey is inverted sugar, in other words sugar split into glucoe and fructose.

[Veretta21]

What is the best choice health wise----anyone? I always feel weird about taking in so much sugar at once

[Kärnfysikern]

Supplement companies wouldn't advocate this practice would they???

ohh no those honest people are 100% reliable

[Kärnfysikern]

health wise its never benificial with simple sugars and insulin spikes. Hyperglycemia has a host of negative effects on endothelium(inner linings of blood vessels)for instance.

I dont think however spiking insulin 3-4 times a week would produce any noticable healt risks realy.

[Giantz11]

I dont think however spiking insulin 3-4 times a week would produce any noticable healt risks realy.

Do it, months out of the year and you never know.

[Kärnfysikern]

true, but it seems like it takes alot to realy screw something up bad. Thinking about all the obeese people that still live until 50 before getting a heart attack and they constantly spike insulin and is almost constantly suffering from hyperglycemia.

but if the chooise is betwen 2 equaly effective ways and one turns out to be more healthy then I se no reason to choose the less healthy way.
But I am not 100% conviced about the low gi method yet only 99,5%

So I will have to try it to make sure and if I notice no gains difference then Im gonna be all for it. I can say that I used regular table sugar for a long time as pwo and it made no difference compered to dextrose and the gi of sugar is 97 and dextrose is 141 so if high gi was THAT crucial as most think I should have noticed a difference.

[Kärnfysikern]

uncocked oats has a gi of 89 so almost as high as sugar btw.
A more appropriate carb source to realy se if gi makes a difference would be milk since it has a gi of 46. So I will use milk instead of dextrose as my carb source. Oats is a healtier chooise though.