Am I wasting my time with this Gain Lean Mass Diet??

Ok I've been on this diet for about a month now. Pretty easy for me to stick to, but I am beginning to question if I am doing it right. I am currently 6'1" at 179 lbs wanting to get to about 195 lbs of muscle with minimal fat gain. I have one cheat day on Wed thats basically pizza and junk food. But here are my other days....

My diet on the days I lift (every Thursday, Saturday & Monday)

Meal #1
Whey Protien, 1/2 cup dry Oats & 2 tblspn Sugar Free Jam
430 cal, 49 pro, 45 carb, 7 fat

Meal #2
4 slices Whole Wheat Bread, 2 tblspn fat free mayo & 5 oz Tuna mixed with bits of celery & carrots
530 cal, 50 pro, 60 carb, 6 fat

Weight train

Meal #3
Whey Protein & 1.5 rolls of Sweet Tarts
495 cal, 36 pro, 77 carb, 1 fat

Meal #4
4 oz Chicken Breast, 1/4 cup dry White Rice, 1/2 cup Green Peas with some soy sauce & teryaki
415 cal, 44 pro, 53 carb, 2 fat

Meal #5
Whey Protein and some Almonds
340 cal, 42 pro, 10 carb, 15 fat

Meal #6
1.5 cups Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 3 tblspns All Natural Peanut Butter with some Splenda
490 cal, 50 pro, 20 carb, 27 fat

Meal #7
Casien protein mix & 1 tblspn Flax Oil
420 cal, 52 pro, 6 carb, 20 fat

Totals: 3120 cal, 323 pro, 271 carb, 78 fat

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My diet on days I dont lift (Friday, Sunday & Tuesday)

Cardio training is 50 min of brisk walking on the treadmill, along with 4 sets of 50 crunches

Meal #1
4 whole Eggs with some Green Onions
320 cal, 28 pro, 0 carb, 27 fat

Meal #2
Whey Protien, 1/2 cup dry Oats & 2 tblspn Sugar Free Jam
430 cal, 49 pro, 45 carb, 7 fat

Meal #3
4 slices Whole Wheat Bread, 2 tblspn fat free mayo & 5 oz Tuna mixed with bits of celery & carrots
530 cal, 50 pro, 60 carb, 6 fat

Meal #4
Whey Protein and some Almonds
340 cal, 42 pro, 10 carb, 15 fat

Meal #5
1.5 cups Low Fat Cottage Cheese, 3 tblspns All Natural Peanut Butter with some Splenda
490 cal, 50 pro, 20 carb, 27 fat

Meal #6
Casien protein mix & 1 tblspn Flax Oil
420 cal, 52 pro, 6 carb, 20 fat

Totals: 2530 cal, 271 pro, 141 carb, 102 fat

There's gotta be something I have wrong here... Can I add some sour cream & cheese with my eggs? or no? Too much fat on my non-lifting days? not enough carbs on my non-lifting days? enough cals? can I add pasta, sauce & chicken somewhere (i love me pasta)?

As you can tell I am questioning my diet. I've tried to follow the gain lean mass diet and bulking diet while reading other people's diets as well. That, and putting together something I can stick to without falling off the wagon. If you have suggestions, advice etc... PLEASE share. I wanna make sure I'm on the right path here.

way too many protein shakes ...
more solid food needed..

the meal with almonds i dont think you should count those towards your fat..
have something else for fat plus your amonlds.... make them as a snack...

dont be scared to have rice/pasta/milk.....
your trying gain muscle ...
it is pretty hard to stay pretty lean yet gain muscle ...

so you will have to comprimise but just try to keep the fat gain to minimum...
dont be scared to have other sorts of carbs tho like i said...

Your problem is you're not getting enough protein from food. In your 1st diet, the only what I call "real protein" you are gettin is from a 4oz chicken breast, tuna, and peanut butter. The 2nd is even worse. Eggs, tuna, and peanut butter. You will be lucky if you don't lose weight eating like that. You should be eating around 200g of protein from say, chicken, tuna, fish, or steak. Right now you are only eating around 70g.You are depending too much on whey protein. Start eating bro.

How about my totals per day? is that OK? as far as the amounts (numbers-wise) of cals/pro/carb/fat I get in my daily routine on both types of days?

Collar, as far as carbs go (ie pasta :aaGreen22 )... where can I slot that in my routine? wouldn't I need to substitute a carb meal I already have?

Zapp, I always thought protein was protein? I didnt know there was a difference between getting it from whey or solid foods. I do it to cut down on cook and prep time. But if it inhibits my gain process, then I will need to re-tool it.

Thanks for the advice guys... keep 'em coming!

no..you need to be eating solid food. I would be eating chicken, tuna, fish, or steak, every 2 hours. I use more of the whey protein when I am cutting.

solid foods are seriously overrated. The quality of whey protein blows meat away. I have gone periods where I lived on whey, flax and some fruits alone!

You can easily both bulk and cut on 2 solid meals and the rest of the meals as shakes if you want to. It would be a pretty damn boring diet though and you will have to make sure those 2 solid meals are packed with veggies. Also you need to heavily supplement with vitamins. Especialy the b vitamins.

whey shake in milk with a fruit is a excelent pro/carb meal.

whey shake with avacado is a terrific pro/fat meal

im talking bout like you can switch it up..
you have there what your going to eat everyday..

im saying you can swap some of those meals ..
the ones that have bread can be pasta sometimes
rice can be swapped for sweet potatoes sometimes..
just so you wont get sick of those foods..
and yes you must have solid foods...

all you would have to do is have some whey with milk..
which will get you the pro/carb meal...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johan

solid foods are seriously overrated. The quality of whey protein blows meat away. I have gone periods where I lived on whey, flax and some fruits alone!

You can easily both bulk and cut on 2 solid meals and the rest of the meals as shakes if you want to. It would be a pretty damn boring diet though and you will have to make sure those 2 solid meals are packed with veggies. Also you need to heavily supplement with vitamins. Especialy the b vitamins.

whey shake in milk with a fruit is a excelent pro/carb meal.

whey shake with avacado is a terrific pro/fat meal

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thats true that can work but it will make life very boring...
and he will need alot of supps to get the vitamins he needs and so on johan....
but you would know lot more than me..
so listen to johan.

Johan is spot on but...
WHEY PROTEIN IS TOO FAST for during the day IMO unless ur chugging it every 1.5 hrs .. now u incrop some milk and u got ur self a good 3hrs of protein which is great but not everyone wants those sugars from milk.. but anyways i LOVE MILK/WHEY shakes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johan

solid foods are seriously overrated. The quality of whey protein blows meat away. I have gone periods where I lived on whey, flax and some fruits alone!

You can easily both bulk and cut on 2 solid meals and the rest of the meals as shakes if you want to. It would be a pretty damn boring diet though and you will have to make sure those 2 solid meals are packed with veggies. Also you need to heavily supplement with vitamins. Especialy the b vitamins.

whey shake in milk with a fruit is a excelent pro/carb meal.

whey shake with avacado is a terrific pro/fat meal

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Don't take this the wrong way.....but you are full of sh*t. Whey protein blows away the protein in meat? Well damn, I guess I've been doing it wrong all of this time. I should just buy alot of whey and drink it instead of eating:bs: . Yeah...whatever. I feel sorry for who has been taking your advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zapp

Don't take this the wrong way.....but you are full of sh*t. Whey protein blows away the protein in meat? Well damn, I guess I've been doing it wrong all of this time. I should just buy alot of whey and drink it instead of eating:bs: . Yeah...whatever. I feel sorry for who has been taking your advice.

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ok why dont you explain to me why meat is superior. Lay it all out on me mr bright guy. Telling people they are full of shit without even giving a argument is SO convincing. :rolleyes:

Whey is a superior source of protein because it has a more complete amino acid spectrum. That simple. You have a pool of aminoacids in your body where all the amino acids gets balanced. Whenever the body needs aminoacids to build muscle for instance it pulls aminoacids from that pool. Abundance of one and it gets burned away or disposed of since the body can only use certain combinations of aminacids to build tissue.
Whey protein is more competent in filling that pool than meat is. Whey is the most complete source of protein we know of. Even better than eggs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by taiboxa

Johan is spot on but...
WHEY PROTEIN IS TOO FAST for during the day IMO unless ur chugging it every 1.5 hrs .. now u incrop some milk and u got ur self a good 3hrs of protein which is great but not everyone wants those sugars from milk.. but anyways i LOVE MILK/WHEY shakes

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Yes but it realy doesnt matter that much that whey is quickly absorbed. If you have a meal every second or third hour it doesnt matter the slighest.
Remember the aminoacid pool.

The sugar in milk isnt a problem either if doing a milk/whey shake. Lactose is a very low gi carb. Lower than even brown rice or whole grain pasta. Only reason to avoid lactose is if one is lactose intolerant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zapp

no..you need to be eating solid food. I would be eating chicken, tuna, fish, or steak, every 2 hours. I use more of the whey protein when I am cutting.

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why dont you mention egg whites?

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Originally Posted by johan

Yes but it realy doesnt matter that much that whey is quickly absorbed. If you have a meal every second or third hour it doesnt matter the slighest.
Remember the aminoacid pool.

The sugar in milk isnt a problem either if doing a milk/whey shake. Lactose is a very low gi carb. Lower than even brown rice or whole grain pasta. Only reason to avoid lactose is if one is lactose intolerant.

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im intolerant but i use lactaid!

with all this talk about shakes being better than food, i thought i would mention that when bulking, i always have one scoop of whey mixed with water at the end of ever whole food meal. why you ask? i dunno. i figure if im bulking i might as well force in as many calories as i can and its a good way of making sure you are getting all the essential amino acids with every meal i suppose. i mean my whole food meals are already 500-600 calories so adding in just once scoop of whey with 4 oz. of water adds 20 grams of protein and about 100 calories.

Zapp if you still dont belive me check out the biological index/value for whey compared to meat, then go and check Protein efficiency ratio and then net protein utilization and dont forget PDCAAS you will find whey on top in all of those scales.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johan

Zapp if you still dont belive me check out the biological index/value for whey compared to meat, then go and check Protein efficiency ratio and then net protein utilization and dont forget PDCAAS you will find whey on top in all of those scales.

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johan i know that you know a lot but i have heard since i started bodybuilding that whole food is far better than shakes...i do know that your body will be able to use more of the protein if its in whey form but i just cant see how powder and water or milk would put on more mass than something like steak and potatoes ya know?

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Originally Posted by kaptainkeezy04

with all this talk about shakes being better than food, i thought i would mention that when bulking, i always have one scoop of whey mixed with water at the end of ever whole food meal. why you ask? i dunno. i figure if im bulking i might as well force in as many calories as i can and its a good way of making sure you are getting all the essential amino acids with every meal i suppose. i mean my whole food meals are already 500-600 calories so adding in just once scoop of whey with 4 oz. of water adds 20 grams of protein and about 100 calories.

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Thats a good way to improve protein quality in a meal, especialy if it contains lots of grains or beans that doesnt have optimal amino acid spectrum. Also increasing kcal by increasing protein usualy is better than increasing kcal with fat or carbs since protein has a larger thermic effect

keep your carbs 7 days a week....maybe limit them to the mornings on off days.....don't worry SOO much on sep. carbs and fats....as long as they a good quality carbs and fats, you will be fine......Side note, 1,000-1 says your macros listed a way higher than they really are.....for example, 1/2 cup oats? 30g carbs MAX, most I've seen is 27g unless they are steel cut which are double.....

2 pieces of bread? They are 30g a piece?????? Doubt it......

etc,etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kaptainkeezy04

johan i know that you know a lot but i have heard since i started bodybuilding that whole food is far better than shakes...i do know that your body will be able to use more of the protein if its in whey form but i just cant see how powder and water or milk would put on more mass than something like steak and potatoes ya know?

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the thing is that meat contains more than just protein. Its micronutrients like the b vitamins, minerals and so on. So if you switch to shakes only without making up for those lost minerals and vitamins it will have possible negative effects on performance. But if you supplement with those micros theoreticaly the gains you can get from whey is better then the gains from meat since the whey protein is of higher quality. In real life the difference is not noticable.

For 3 months I got ALL my protein from whey shakes. During that time period I easily dropped fat and gained strenght at the same time. But the lists of supplements I took was pretty big :D

Its just a old myth that meat puts more meat on you than shakes. That concept has no scientific backing at all.

I eat so much greens, that I'm fuller than shit all day and think that I've been eating enough....thats the reason I've become so weak and bulking has been hell.....For example my lunch, which I thought was gigantic was this:

4oz chicken breast
2oz 96% lean beef

4oz of sweet potatoes w/ 3-4 spoon fulls of mom's organic chilli )black beans, etc.) on top

a salad with broc, onions, cauli, radishes, zuchinni, as big as your head

cup of sf jello and 5-6 peanuts.......fuller than shit and it was barely 400-500cals.

That and sf gum......3 packs on top of splenda and syrups in coffee and tea will wreck havoc on your system, making you want to eat nothing but tums....

IM JACKING THIS THREAD!!! okay why is it that i am obsesssed with big boobs...like seriously....a girl can have a large nice rack and everything else on her body be average or even below average and i would still get with her? anyone else like this?

man kaptain you totally jacked this thread. IT would be perfect for the lounge.

lets get it back on topic or its getting locked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johan

the thing is that meat contains more than just protein. Its micronutrients like the b vitamins, minerals and so on. So if you switch to shakes only without making up for those lost minerals and vitamins it will have possible negative effects on performance. But if you supplement with those micros theoreticaly the gains you can get from whey is better then the gains from meat since the whey protein is of higher quality. In real life the difference is not noticable.

For 3 months I got ALL my protein from whey shakes. During that time period I easily dropped fat and gained strenght at the same time. But the lists of supplements I took was pretty big :D

Its just a old myth that meat puts more meat on you than shakes. That concept has no scientific backing at all.

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If that were true Johan, all of the top bodybuilders would just be drinking whey, and not eating. How many do you see doing that?

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Originally Posted by Zapp

If that were true Johan, all of the top bodybuilders would just be drinking whey, and not eating. How many do you see doing that?

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Phil Hernon for one didnt rely on meat as a source for protein. He has mentioned this on promuscle himself. If I remember right be relied on whey and some kind of special aminoacid blend.
Big A on the same board is pro and he also claims whey protein is a superior protein.
Andreas Cahling(swedish pro in the 80's) was a full blown vegitarian.

But that doesnt matter to me that much.
know it works, both from a purely nutrition point of view and from personal experience. But there is realy no point in going all shakes unless under certain cirumstances.
In my case I had to because I had 60 ibs of protein at home and no money for food.

Yeah....to each his own. I will stick with the real food.

yes. there is more then one way to do things and Im defenetly not saying eating meat is bad. I love meat.

But if you dont have time to eat 6 solid meals a day replacing 3-4 of them with shakes wont make a difference in gains. Aslong as the other needs besides protein is covered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zapp

Don't take this the wrong way.....but you are full of sh*t. Whey protein blows away the protein in meat? Well damn, I guess I've been doing it wrong all of this time. I should just buy alot of whey and drink it instead of eating:bs: . Yeah...whatever. I feel sorry for who has been taking your advice.

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zapp i believe i need more whole food..
well maybe not need i just feel better if i do..
but saying that dont mean shakes wont work...
i will still stick to whole food...

now that i have said this ... i dont think it was right to say that johan is full of shit man...
he is just giving his opinion and trying help like we all are ..
if you didnt believe what his saying is correct you can say that and show him evidence or tell him why.....

i just dont think that was cool....

I told him don't take it the wrong way. I was giving my opinion. It's just a slang. It's not like I called him a name like fatass, queer looking homo, or a **** head. Now that's personal. Telling someone they are full of shit is the same as saying you don't know what you are talking about.

WOW! I didn't think I'd spark off this kind of debate.

The macro's on my diet are correct, Flex2 (i am pretty anal about recording the numbers off the labels).

In regards to shakes. I use whey/water and not milk because I don't want the sugar and it would increase my carbs too much (taking a look at my diet.. wouldnt it?). I try to eat more solids, but I dont have time to cook alot. In reality I only take down 2 shakes (1 extra on workout days for the PWO), so I believe that to be somewhat reasonable. Most meals I know how to cook are carb/pro meals. I would replace my shake/almonds with solid food, but I dont know what to cook for a fat/pro meal I would enjoy (steak/swiss, perhaps?).

But I just want to make sure about my total cal/pro/carb/fat per day? i understand the debate of solid vs. drink, but I just want to make sure the numbers are at least right?

Anyways, I appreciate everyone's input.

the numbers are good :thumbsup: I would increase protein with about 50 grams or so on non lifting days though.