Carbs with every meal seems to work???

**wolfstriked** · 05-08-2006, 05:08 PM

Does everyone here agree that you have to have pro/fat meals in order to lose weight.I ask this cause I look at Body For Life champions and they are in unbelievable shape and they all came from either being obese or badly outa shape.

They do 6 meals a day of a portion protein and a portion carbs.They take maybe one to two tbsp's of oils for fat.Yet they achieve what I want to achieve.

So my question is how is it that most on this board say you have to eat no carbs in order to allow your bodyfat to be utilized yet these people eat carbs all day long.Isnt there just the calorie in calorie out to really care about?

**sooners04** · 05-08-2006, 05:11 PM

If you did the high intesity cardio that they do, you would also lose weight and muscle. Plus 99% of those people have NEVER excersised or dieted in their life and any direction would benefit them.

**wolfstriked** · 05-08-2006, 05:34 PM

But thats the thing,they seem to be very muscular while ultra lean.

From my own experience I find that fat loss is way faster when using the pro/fat meals for a few meals per day.But how can that be if I am counting and eating the same calories.I think maybe what I read by Swolecat sums it up.He stated that when doing a diet like the sticky cutter above,you can actually eat more calories and still lose the same fat.So more calories = more energy and muscles for the same fatloss then its a given that pro/fat meals are needed.

I just get baffled by how good the BFL'ers look.Do you think that maybe they steer away from the authors recomendations and maybe add more protein?

**SwoleCat** · 05-08-2006, 06:03 PM

No one on BFL really exercised before at all, and none of them end up being big.

Once you are really big/have years of experience/etc., and you need to cut and want to keep mass, merely equally lowering the macros to just eat less is not going to work like it would on a newbie.

~SC~

**wolfstriked** · 05-08-2006, 06:30 PM

I can see where your coming from Swole.Being larger is harder for the body to hold and so you have to do tricks to keep the muscle.

What I notice is that recentley I switched back to BFL and while my lovies have shrunk I am getting weaker.The 345 pound deads I was doing...hehe i couldnt even budge off the floor.The 75 pound dumbell bench presses are down to 65.Strength loss everywhere.

So today i upped my protein per meal and last two meals have been pro/fat and I look better already.I piss all the water im holding under skin and in belly real fast when I go to a pro/fat meal.Its freaking amazing and was the reason I looked into ketosis.Seeing the water flush I thought wow Im not gonna eat any more carbs

Swole,if you dont wanna answer this than dont.

Do you have to increase your protein for the pro/fat meals?I wonder since carbs are protein sparing that its ok to take in 25 gms protein in a pro/carb meal while a meal with no carbs you should go up to 50 gms protein to ensure you have some for energy and also for nitrogen retention.

**1buffsob** · 05-08-2006, 08:51 PM

Let me just say that the sticky outline by Rambo works. It will get you cut up if you do it right. Many have done it with great success.

But there are many ways to diet. His sticky is only a primer. Once you have enough dieting experience and enough knowledge in nutrition, you can make your own decisions based on what works best for you.

1buffsob

**Jakt** · 05-08-2006, 09:40 PM

sticky def helps... pro/carb meals may just be like carbs that are very low Gi such as greens.... when i really like to shreed up.. i do a couple meals like that and only 2 fat meals a day.. works great and i keep my measurements very close...

**Quil** · 05-09-2006, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

Let me just say that the sticky outline by Rambo works. It will get you cut up if you do it right. Many have done it with great success.

I'm using it right now and I'm down 24lbs in 13 weeks. Highly recommend it.

**steve0** · 05-09-2006, 01:24 AM

the primer is awsome i myself have gotton lean/ripped on low carb higher fat diets and also on high carb lower fat diets, it most cases its all about meal timming, and calories in VS. calories out.

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 06:05 AM

I'm also following the sticky, of course with some adjustments as that is too much food for me, but so far so good... I feel great and have dropped about 7 Lbs in 3 weeks. I'm eating alot of protein though, which is hrd on the kidnetys but I don't think it'll be a problem.... is this an ok diet to stick to for long periods of time?

**1buffsob** · 05-09-2006, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by Katelette81

I'm also following the sticky, of course with some adjustments as that is too much food for me, but so far so good... I feel great and have dropped about 7 Lbs in 3 weeks. I'm eating alot of protein though, which is hrd on the kidnetys but I don't think it'll be a problem.... is this an ok diet to stick to for long periods of time?

Yes. However, the longer you continue to diet, the harder it will become to lose fat, and the eaiser it will be to lose LBM. Try to keep you cutting in the 12-14 week range unless your in a pre-comp diet.

1buffsob

**steve0** · 05-09-2006, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

Yes. However, the longer you continue to diet, the harder it will become to lose fat, and the eaiser it will be to lose LBM. Try to keep you cutting in the 12-14 week range unless your in a pre-comp diet.

1buffsob

agree, then remeber cheat meals as well or carb up days, will help keep your body in check and from stalling IMO, after a good cutter i take a 6 week break you cant always be in peak or can you ?

**Giants11** · 05-09-2006, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Katelette81

I'm also following the sticky, of course with some adjustments as that is too much food for me, but so far so good... I feel great and have dropped about 7 Lbs in 3 weeks. I'm eating alot of protein though, which is hrd on the kidnetys but I don't think it'll be a problem.... is this an ok diet to stick to for long periods of time?

It's not hard on the kidneys if your water intake is adequate.

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 11:01 AM

Hmm.. thanks guys. I'll keep this in mind. I try to have one cheat meal a week... but I try to do it properly... as in, with proper foods not crap like chips and stuff, jsut suff I don't normally eat .. mmm bruschetta. LOL

Water intake is good.. I"m at almost 2 gallons a day. Seems like the more I drink the more i need.. crazy.

Buff - I'll stay on it for prolly 12 weeks then if you think thats adequate.. but where do I go from there? It seems to me more like a way of eating not a diet.. I dunno. .. I just want to look really f---ing good by the end of the summer...

**1buffsob** · 05-09-2006, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by Katelette81

Hmm.. thanks guys. I'll keep this in mind. I try to have one cheat meal a week... but I try to do it properly... as in, with proper foods not crap like chips and stuff, jsut suff I don't normally eat .. mmm bruschetta. LOL

Water intake is good.. I"m at almost 2 gallons a day. Seems like the more I drink the more i need.. crazy.

Buff - I'll stay on it for prolly 12 weeks then if you think thats adequate.. but where do I go from there? It seems to me more like a way of eating not a diet.. I dunno. .. I just want to look really f---ing good by the end of the summer...

Depends on where you're at Kate. If you're looking like you want, all you need to do is eat clean at your maintainence kcals and keep hitting the gym/cardio to build muscle definition. But I'd need pics before I could recommend anything.

1buffsob

**DirtyDog7** · 05-09-2006, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

Let me just say that the sticky outline by Rambo works. It will get you cut up if you do it right. Many have done it with great success.

But there are many ways to diet. His sticky is only a primer. Once you have enough dieting experience and enough knowledge in nutrition, you can make your own decisions based on what works best for you.

1buffsob

That sticky made a world of difference for me. I was able to eat 300 more calories a day and I lost 2 to 2.5lbs a week vs 1.5 to 2lbs per week.

Basically: A little more food with better results.

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

Depends on where you're at Kate. If you're looking like you want, all you need to do is eat clean at your maintainence kcals and keep hitting the gym/cardio to build muscle definition. But I'd need pics before I could recommend anything.

1buffsob

Now how did I know you would say something like that? LOL

Diet is good for me, the main problem is that I don't have that much to lose and that's what makes it difficult... I could use to convert about 6-7Lbs of fat into muscle, but man is it ever difficult.. that's why I'm on this cutting diet and training extra hard and doing the cardio.. just waiting for the results to kick in.. C'mon already! Haha

**1buffsob** · 05-09-2006, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Katelette81

Now how did I know you would say something like that? LOL

Diet is good for me, the main problem is that I don't have that much to lose and that's what makes it difficult... I could use to convert about 6-7Lbs of fat into muscle, but man is it ever difficult.. that's why I'm on this cutting diet and training extra hard and doing the cardio.. just waiting for the results to kick in.. C'mon already! Haha

7lbs in 3 weeks............ sounds good to me. lol

Keep it up Kate

1buffsob

**the_experiment** · 05-09-2006, 02:52 PM

curious.

what about when you guys are 45yrs or older?

are you still going to base your diet around the cutting/bulking stickies?

**1buffsob** · 05-09-2006, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by the_experiment

curious.

what about when you guys are 45yrs or older?

are you still going to base your diet around the cutting/bulking stickies?

I don't base them off the stickies now. But I will always continue to diet, whether it's cutting/bulking/maintaining. My body turns to shit if I don't control everything I eat.

1buffsob

**DirtyDog7** · 05-09-2006, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by the_experiment

curious.

what about when you guys are 45yrs or older?

are you still going to base your diet around the cutting/bulking stickies?

Are you saying that, at some age, I should give up and start mixing Fats and Carbs? After 45, should I just let the weight pile on because looking good is for younger people?

**SwoleCat** · 05-09-2006, 02:59 PM

I'm going to base my diet on looking great for as long as I live.

It's who I am.

~SC~

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 03:02 PM

I'm in aggreeance... just because you get older doesn't mean you can just let yourself go.. if anything you have to try harder because your body changes as it matures and gravity starts trying to win the battle...

**the_experiment** · 05-09-2006, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by DirtyDog7

Are you saying that, at some age, I should give up and start mixing Fats and Carbs? After 45, should I just let the weight pile on because looking good is for younger people?

no..no..no... i think my question came out wrong. my family asked, so are you going eat like this for the rest of your life , etc? forget the question =)

btw. i'm following the cutting sticky.

**DirtyDog7** · 05-09-2006, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by the_experiment

no..no..no... i think my question came out wrong. my family asked, so are you going eat like this for the rest of your life , etc? forget the question =)

btw. i'm following the cutting sticky.

I like the way swole said it.

And this forum is helping me to live smarter not harder. I now have family and others tell me that results come easy for me. And, at the same time, they think my eating habits are crazy. And then they complain about how over weight they are but still won't take the time to educate themselves or to do anything about it. And it's right at that moment that they ask questions like:

So are you going eat like this for the rest of your life?

I think sometimes it's easier for people to criticize then to get in shape too.

I hope no one brings you down or tries to discourage you from what you are trying to do. At least you can come here and have have people say are on the right track.

All this knowledge will help me for the rest of my life. I look forward to being the hottest 90 year old at my senior assisted living center.

**wolfstriked** · 05-09-2006, 05:22 PM

Wow lots of good advice!You guys pumped up that sticky real good!!

Its amazing how carb sensitive I am.Woke up lean this morning and my first 3 meals were...

1-small 100 calorie yogurt

2-6oz turkey w/1 cup brown rice

3-same as meal 2

By 12pm I felt like a water buffalo

Then my next tree meals are supposed to be pro/fat but I screwed up when offered chicken marsala.It looked and tasted like it wasnt breaded but I just read the recipe and it is with flour.Oh well,should of just gotten my protein shake.

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 05:24 PM

Shouldn't you eat pro/carb, then pro/fat etc etc? alternating? Hm, perhaps I;m confused.. that does tend to happen..lol

**wolfstriked** · 05-09-2006, 05:34 PM

Well funny thing is I just read last night from John Berardi's site that there is two ways to do the seperating of pro/fat pro/carb meals.

Quote.....
I would like to suggest two ways to set up your meals: The Stagger and The Taper.

Assuming that you're eating 6 meals per day, the Stagger method would dictate that you alternate fat plus protein meals with protein plus carb meals throughout the day so that you get 3 of each. On the other hand, the Taper method would require that you eat the first half of your meals (3 meals) as protein plus carbs, and the last half of your meals (3 meals) as protein plus fat. In my experience, The Taper is the ideal fat loss plan. The Stagger is also pretty good, but the losses in fat are generally slower.

Never the less, if you take the calories up a bit on the Stagger, it's quite useful as a solid body weight maintenance eating plan. Eating every 3 hours or so is optimal when on these programs. However, if some of your meals are rapidly digested (like Biotest Surge, protein shakes, etc.) you can eat 2 hours afterwards.

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 05:52 PM

Hm.. very interesting. ... well, I don't think I'm losing fat .. in fact I'm super hungry and today I feel so much like a blimp that I"m nervous about fgoing to teh gym... i feel huge! And I haven't staggered from my diet at all so I don't get it

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 05:52 PM

Maybe I'll try the taper tomorrow

**wolfstriked** · 05-09-2006, 06:09 PM

Sounds like water weight.Happens to me all the time.I can gain 12 to 15 pounds in a cheat day.

How much carbs per day do you consume if I may ask.

**wolfstriked** · 05-09-2006, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Katelette81

Hm.. very interesting. ... well, I don't think I'm losing fat .. in fact I'm super hungry and today I feel so much like a blimp that I"m nervous about fgoing to teh gym... i feel huge! And I haven't staggered from my diet at all so I don't get it

Being hungry is a great sign.It shows that your metabolism wants to burn and that your eating below your maintenance.

Since you are female and dont weigh too much I wonder if your taking in too much carbs.I am gonna cut my PPWO meal of carbs tommorow and see how I do.

**1buffsob** · 05-09-2006, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by Katelette81

Shouldn't you eat pro/carb, then pro/fat etc etc? alternating? Hm, perhaps I;m confused.. that does tend to happen..lol

Your pro/carb meal placement should be dictated around your workout. Alternating your pro/carb and pro/fat meals leads to a very unstable insulin level and can be detrimental to your cutting if not done right. On non-workout days, I feel it's best to put your pro/carb meals in the morning to get the insulin response needed to start the repairing of muscles.

1buffsob

**1buffsob** · 05-09-2006, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Katelette81

Hm.. very interesting. ... well, I don't think I'm losing fat .. in fact I'm super hungry and today I feel so much like a blimp that I"m nervous about fgoing to teh gym... i feel huge! And I haven't staggered from my diet at all so I don't get it

Sounds like normal weight fluctuations. Plus the fact that you're a woman, if you catch my drift, and a rise or increase of such hormones can cause retention of water. Clen may also have something to do with it, as women seem to have a higher tendancy to become bloated while cycling it.

So, bottom line, don't give it a second thought Kate.

1buffsob

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

Sounds like normal weight fluctuations. Plus the fact that you're a woman, if you catch my drift, and a rise or increase of such hormones can cause retention of water. Clen may also have something to do with it, as women seem to have a higher tendancy to become bloated while cycling it.

So, bottom line, don't give it a second thought Kate.

1buffsob

Thanks Buff.. appreciate it. I'm doing 45mins cardio a.m. followed by protein shake (water and protein and taurine only) then a couple hours later a pro/carb meal - usually spinach and chicken or broccoli and chicken... the pro/fat then pro/carb then training then PWO shake and dinner pro/fat. LOL, to shortcut it..

I'm not gonna worry about it becuase I know what I'm doing is right and that my body is probably adjusting or something, its not like I'm cheating or not working out.. and of course you're right, women do tend to fluctuate periodically... I didn't think that being hungry was a good sign, I sort of though you were suppose dto eat when hungry regardless.. but perhaps I'll down some benefibre instead?

Thanks again!!

**1buffsob** · 05-09-2006, 07:55 PM

If you were always supposed to eat when hungry, I'd be 400lbs by now.

I'm always hungry, even when bulking.

1buffsob

BTW, you don't count the spinach and broccoli in your meals as carbs, do you?

**Katelette81** · 05-09-2006, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

If you were always supposed to eat when hungry, I'd be 400lbs by now.

I'm always hungry, even when bulking.

1buffsob

BTW, you don't count the spinach and broccoli in your meals as carbs, do you?

Ok.. now when I'm ravenous I'll take it as a good sign and stick to my meal plan and quantities.

Actually, yes I was counting them as carbs.. I touched on this with you in another thread i think.. I realise now I must be too low in carbs. I'm only eating one portion, pre-workout.. usually a sweet potatoe or oatmeal.. I'm gonn ahave to re-work my diet i think... nail this sucker down..