Protein, Fats and Carbohydrates - additional notes and info

**mrclark** · 05-10-2006, 06:24 AM

Over the past few weeks, many have asked questions as to how many macronutrients or calories or ratios each person has or is using – while this is a great way to stay informed and make initial assessments on how to approach one’s diet plan – everyone’s macros choices, amounts and usage are going to be different .

I hope by writing this, it will answer some of those questions as well as recap some of the great gems of knowledge and info that pass through these forums – for both the new members joining each day as well as the current ones.. I'll do my best to keep this as straightforward as possible.

As elaborately dictated in the cutting/bulking stickies and the multitude of great advice given here on AR by its members, mods and vets – one of the best ways to approach the diet plan is to separate your macronutrients – either in protein-carbohydrate form or protein-fat form – never in a multi-combined manner. We know to stop (hopefully) the car when the train rail road crossing lights are flashing red – likewise, macro separation should be second nature.

However – there are exceptions to everything and some do work well combining all 3 macros… typically this is also a common tradition across all walks of life including ourselves while growing up– but now we know better

So what, when and how much of these macros do we eat? It’s a guessing game at first… we know it’s necessary to consume these groups – some work well eating carbs before working out whereas some have a protein-fat meal instead… lots of threads go over this “preworkout meal mystery” – you’re just gonna have to try out either combo on your own first to see what works for you…

For the majority – carbohydrate-protein meal consumption revolves around workout times – regardless if one is cutting/bulking/maintaining. Real quick here – some might need that extra jump start in the morning and have a carb-pro meal there or refuse to have one prior to training and eat a pro-fat meal instead – whatever it is… get that preworkout meal at least 1-2 hours before training.

Now, generally if your pre/pwo/ppwo meals are going to be pro-carb... fats are going to be kept to a trivial amount. I usually try to keep it under 5-6 grams for preworkout (pre-wo) and post-post workout meals (ppwo) respectively.

Where do these fats come from? There might be a gram or so of fat from the lean meat (usually chicken for me - can be higher for other lean red meats) A couple grams of fat can come from oats and rice if that's what you choose to use as well for example. I also add some I can't believe it's not butter spray to that stuff because I need more flavor... We’re not talking about crazy amounts of “added fat” here at this time.

***The most important place where you want to keep fats to an utmost minimum and next to zero if possible - is your post work out shake (pwo) - If it's a simple carb like dextrose, then there's 0 grams of fat... if using oats i.e. I believe in a 1/2 cup there's around 3 grams of fat... also some mixtures of whey protein might have a gram of fat (perhaps for 2 scoops) I myself use isopure zero carb flavored isolate so there's no fat... I'm partially lactose intolerant - so I use this to play it safe. The chocolate one has a gram or so per 2 scoops or 50 grams of protein.

Most members here also ingest carbs by 2 x the amount of whey protein - 2:1 ratio - so you'll have to keep that in mind. As long as you have at least an equal amount of carbs to protein (1:1) - that should be fine too.... 2:1 ratios aren't written in stone, as almost as everything else - but it's been tested time after time amongst many along with myself - and I'm happy with the results... Dextrose or Oats or Oats + milk – are all in your arsenal as great choices – take your pick and see what executes results for you. Protein here should be roughly 0.25 grams per pound of lean body mass.

Example structure of protein-carb meals :
preworkout (cooked oats + whey/lean meat protein) usually 2 hours before lifting and post-workout (dex + whey 2:1) usually 15-20mins after - and about 1-1.5 hrs later, my PPWO meal (brown rice + lean meat protein + veggies) I usually get in about 3 pro/fat meals before my pre-workout and one more pro-fat after my ppwo.

Protein - this depends on your daily macro intake of complete proteins... trying to not hover over the 50-60gram range PER meal as discussed in many of the previous threads lately. Again that would be from 1-2 grams for example per pound of total body weight or lean body mass - whatever works for you. Complete proteins are ones generally found in dairy/egss, meat/fish – they provide all the essential amino acids necessary for muscle repair, growth and development. This is the one macro you’ll have at every meal.

Fats Usually 0.25gram to .5grams or a bit more per pound of lean body mass is a great start. The majority of which is coming from your EFA's selections . Just keep in mind to keep a decent blend of ***** 3/6/9 distributed throughout the day.

Carbs - In regards to starchy and simple carbs - it all depends on how many grams of carbs you're shooting for - i.e. it could be 0.5 grams to 1.5 gram per pound of body weight for cutting... or 1gram - 2.5/3 grams for maintenance, lean bulking, etc.. You’ll have to try a few different ranges to see how sensitive you are to the amounts you ingest.

From there I'll see how many grams of total net carbs I have to spare and split amongst those 3 protein carb meals (pre-wo/pwo/ppwo) for example. I don't include carbs from fibrous veggies - I consider veggies not only as being nutritionally fundamental but as added volume to your meals to give you the effect of feeling full. (To find the Net Carb amount - subtract fiber - but keep in mind, some labels actually subtracted that already regardless of showing the two)

Besides the role of carbohydrates in replenishing liver/muscle glycogen stores / energy expenditure - they're required for every day cellular metabolism and vitality -
almost all cells within our body need glucose - most notably i.e. brain / red blood cell function / testes - normal development of sperm .... to name a FEW....

The supplement R-ALA (with biotin) can come in real handy when consuming your carb-pro meals (not really necessary for your PWO shake)

Some work well with high carbs / moderate protein / moderate fat for bulking, wheras some need more higher amounts of fats/protein , lower carbs for lean bulking or cutting.

Again how many grams of carbs/protein/fats you take all depend on your goals AS WELL AS :

* your somatotype (endomorph/ectomorph/mesomorph) / carb sensitivity
* daily activities (everyday physical movement/your weight training/cardio frequencies)
* Workout Days vs Non-Workout days (i.e. Carb-Cycling aka High-Low days i.e. drop your pwo carb source and replace with fat)
* Refeed Days in respect to lower BF% and carb consumption.
* gender / ethnicity / (genetics)
* Anabolic chemicals & products other than real food - which shouldn't be even considered without getting diet and it's concepts down... on the other hand - can be absoultely powerful with the proper knowledge and usage.

* Supplementation in whatever chemical/tablet/powder/liquid form (apart from an whey / casein / weight gainer if needed) should be the final touch to whatever you have constructed for your dietary needs and goals.

* Apart from whey powders for pwo and casein/weight gainer IF necesarry - SOLID MEALS DOMINATE ALL - of course it's great to have some whey powder/almonds/homemade jerky as examples if and when emergencies do occur. - use your imagination

* Quality foods over those of lesser - i.e. mimizing to leaning away from : lower grade meats, not utilizing fats that don't have ample *****-3 content, selecting carbs that are high in simple sugars (exception = dextrose/maltodextrin for pwo / refeed days early on can be exceptions but real refeeds are clean lower GI complex carbs & fat content kept to a low) , anything hydrogenated, laced with High Fructose Corn Syrup should be most definitely avoided - do your best.

* Good Carbs / Fats / Protein choices : check the stickies and threads for many examples. i.e. complex/starchy carbs with only a minimum coming from sugar content / EFA's / complete proteins
* Meal timing - every 2-3 hours...
* Cheat Days - one of the best times to not give a damn about separation - unless your cool with that... and enjoy the stuff you see on FoodTV / restaurants / mom's cooking etc... not only does it provide sanity, but when utilized once in a while - proves that you're the boss!

The bare essentials: multivitamin / calcium with Vitamin D / vitamin C / adequate amounts of fluid/water intake – try to aim for at least 3/4 or 3 liters of water as a minimum – especially when doing cardio/eating massive amounts of food. A whey or whey isolate powder for quick absorption during PWO consumption.

Some might consider calculating the amount of carbs / fats / protein to their lean body mass rather than total body weight, some might use kilograms instead of pounds - I calculate my fat in respect to lean body mass - but not for carbs and protein.... carbs would be way too low for me to stay happy

I don't really count calories anymore – articles such as the one written by our own AR Guru Swolecat, sheds great light on that issue – “Quality foods being far more superior to those of subpar composition and caloric value.”

I go by how my body reacts for a 1-2 week period and adjust from there - that means consistently eating the same selected foods coupled with your on/off/rest days... and from there adjusted accordingly.

The macro ranges are estimates and will vary person to person. Changing it by 1/10th of a given macro range can make a huge difference! i.e. 0.4-0.5-0.6 / 1.1-1.2-1.3 / 2.1-2.2-2.3 etc... You can use the harris-benedict or katch-mcardle equations to estimate maintenance calories...

Regardless we're all unique individuals - all thanks to our genotype (genetic makeup from DNA passed on through the moment of conception) which >>> constructs our somatotype (body composition & metabolism characteristics) and phenotype (physical characteristics - i.e. mom's nose / dad's eyes) -

Provided that you don't have any pre-existing health complications/on certain medications that can cause interference/pregnant...

a good meal plan + meal frequency + macro combinations + effective training + low intensity cardio + rest + determination + using the search button on this forum - you'd be real surprised on how far you can shatter the limits - as continually mentioned day by day - post by post - thread by thread by many of the devoted members here on AR.

The weighing scale and body fat calipers are great gauges – but how you look and feel in front of the mirror is what counts the most!!

All the information above is based on commonalities and patterns found from the wide array of informative posts and discussions of which I personally and mentally reflected on – special thanks again to all the members for their efforts in providing the continued forward movement for overall individual success.

Mind you that the info here is not at all complete - consider what is written above to either refresh or accentuate your current dietary program.

Ok, perhaps I slightly went off tangent - but figured I'll address what I felt like saying.

As for myself, I’m just your regular guy… came across this forum a little while back… read through the stickies… read hundreds of threads… got some excellent feedback and advice from some of my diet posts in the past… I’m preparing for my United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) which I’ll be taking this summer and after some more hospital rotations… hop into a residency program – AR forum has tremendously helped in redirecting both my lifestyle and overall well being…

Alright AR peeps - hopefully this additional information will be useful to the masses that stop by

I’ll end it off for now with one of my favorite quotes….

“Absorb what is useful. Discard what is not. Add what is uniquely your own.” – Bruce Lee

mrclark

**CENADICT** · 05-10-2006, 06:44 AM

great post bro

**1buffsob** · 05-10-2006, 07:12 AM

Very nice mrclark.

This is a good read for those using the approaches outlined in the stickies. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

1buffsob

**Katelette81** · 05-10-2006, 10:26 AM

Yes indeed.. excellent thread. Should keep it bumped for a while...

**PhishStasH** · 05-10-2006, 04:05 PM

**randy6969** · 05-14-2006, 10:52 PM

this helps alot.. thank you!

**dan476** · 05-15-2006, 04:26 PM

Thanks dude, good post, cleared few things up for me.

**DNoMac** · 05-15-2006, 09:44 PM

I'll give it a good bump. I can tell you've done a lot of reading with a post like that and only 65 posts total. Good read

**MaidenOnslaught** · 05-15-2006, 10:50 PM

Awsome read! Thanks very much!

**PhishStasH** · 05-18-2006, 01:41 AM

Keepin' it bumped, bro.

**Wrath1664** · 05-18-2006, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by mrclark

.
The macro ranges are estimates and will vary person to person. Changing it by 1/10th of a given macro range can make a huge difference! i.e. 0.4-0.5-0.6 / 1.1-1.2-1.3 / 2.1-2.2-2.3 etc... You can use the harris-benedict or katch-mcardle equations to estimate maintenance calories...
mrclark

This is great info! But I'm confused on the marco range estimates. can you explain how someone set a range on macro?

Thanks!

**steve0** · 05-18-2006, 10:56 AM

word clark i'll give a bump

**Wrath1664** · 05-18-2006, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by Wrath1664

This is great info! But I'm confused on the marco range estimates. can you explain how someone set a range on macro?

Thanks!

Anyone?

**ironpumpindoc** · 05-18-2006, 10:38 PM

BUMP! This is a great post that explains a lot for everyones benefit. The macro ranges; IMO he is just saying people are so different that you have to figure out the right percentage of pro/carb/fat for your body. You may need 1.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight, but changing it to 1.4 or 1.6 can make a huge difference . . . amounts as small as 10% in theory! You need to experiment yourself and see exactly what amounts you respond best to for your current situation; bulking / cutting / etc. Just my 2 cents!

**Wrath1664** · 05-19-2006, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by ironpumpindoc

BUMP! This is a great post that explains a lot for everyones benefit. The macro ranges; IMO he is just saying people are so different that you have to figure out the right percentage of pro/carb/fat for your body. You may need 1.5 grams of protein per lb of body weight, but changing it to 1.4 or 1.6 can make a huge difference . . . amounts as small as 10% in theory! You need to experiment yourself and see exactly what amounts you respond best to for your current situation; bulking / cutting / etc. Just my 2 cents!

Thanks explaning that. I'll set a baseline and make necessary changes when needed.