Booze

[spittin' 'n cussin']

hey, by all means, you wanna go out and drink, go for it. i don't think that's wrong to do, it just seems as if so many people feel a "need" to do it to enjoy themselves. i just think there's plenty of other ways to go out and have fun without having to get boozed up.

if you occasionally go out and have some drinks and don't feel that's what's necessary to enjoy yourself, then by all means enjoy. but i just read about so many people basically complaining they can't enjoy themselves anymore cause they can't drink while on a cycle, pct, etc as if they're suffering cause they can't drink. that's just not healthy.

also, of course it's not always fun hanging out with people who are drunk when you're not. then again, being drunk isn't always fun either. you could have a good or bad time either way. however, i do find it amusing sometimes to be sober cause when you are, you can actually see how stupid people really act when they're drunk. once you see it from the outside and really observe the scene without being involved in it, it helps to give you a much different perspective on it.

i used to be the biggest partier in my hs. when people wanted to know where the parties were for the weekend, they came to me, cause half the time, i was the one throwing them. however, when i'd go out to party, most the time i'd bring a quart of either skim milk or oj with me. i still enjoyed myself, but i didn't need to drink to do it. don't get me wrong, i would drink off and on, but very rarely cause i didn't feel a need to. my point is though that if drinking is what people feel is "required" to enjoy themselves, they need to reanalyze the situation, which includes the people they hang out with, the places they go, and their overall perspective on things. enjoying yourself shouldn't have to include intoxication, that's all i'm saying.

hahahahahaha, youre a piece of work dude. so all the kids would ask the guy with the half gallon of milk where the next party was?

i remember guys like you, the sober guys lurking around all the time lookin for a passed out piece of ass. the chicks would always wake up walking funny and smelling like milk!

[ascendant]

hahahahahaha, youre a piece of work dude. so all the kids would ask the guy with the half gallon of milk where the next party was?

i remember guys like you, the sober guys lurking around all the time lookin for a passed out piece of ass. the chicks would always wake up walking funny and smelling like milk!

yea, that was me, at least the first part. passed out ass was never my thing, though the way you put it was quite amusing . i can definitely say i always stuck out in the crowd.

don't ever remember lurking . i mainly used to just mess with the drunk people, wander around and chat with everyone, but yea, occasionally i'd be hitting on some nice booty. i like my girls conscious though thanks.

[Undecided09]

hey, by all means, you wanna go out and drink, go for it. i don't think that's wrong to do, it just seems as if so many people feel a "need" to do it to enjoy themselves. i just think there's plenty of other ways to go out and have fun without having to get boozed up.

if you occasionally go out and have some drinks and don't feel that's what's necessary to enjoy yourself, then by all means enjoy. but i just read about so many people basically complaining they can't enjoy themselves anymore cause they can't drink while on a cycle, pct, etc as if they're suffering cause they can't drink. that's just not healthy.

also, of course it's not always fun hanging out with people who are drunk when you're not. then again, being drunk isn't always fun either. you could have a good or bad time either way. however, i do find it amusing sometimes to be sober cause when you are, you can actually see how stupid people really act when they're drunk. once you see it from the outside and really observe the scene without being involved in it, it helps to give you a much different perspective on it.

i used to be the biggest partier in my hs. when people wanted to know where the parties were for the weekend, they came to me, cause half the time, i was the one throwing them. however, when i'd go out to party, most the time i'd bring a quart of either skim milk or oj with me. i still enjoyed myself, but i didn't need to drink to do it. don't get me wrong, i would drink off and on, but very rarely cause i didn't feel a need to. my point is though that if drinking is what people feel is "required" to enjoy themselves, they need to reanalyze the situation, which includes the people they hang out with, the places they go, and their overall perspective on things. enjoying yourself shouldn't have to include intoxication, that's all i'm saying.

Dude I'm sure there are plently of guys on here who "never" go off cycle because they have a serious case of bigorexia, so lets not start talking about "need" and "required" in order to have fun...

[Undecided09]

again though, you're indicating that in order to have a good time, the drinking is necessary. the point i keep trying to get across is that it's very well possible to go out and have fun doing other things than just drinking. if you feel drinking is a necessary component of "letting loose", then that right there is an issue that should be dealt with IMO.

oh, and why the need to mention that you're married to an NFL cheerleader? what does that have to do with this thread or anything about our discussion? oh, what am i saying, i'd brag too if i was.

Dude classic non drinkers remark man, who said you "need" to drink to have fun, all he was saying was that after busting or ass all work, or for two weeks, a drink or two definately hits the spot!!??? I mean you can't argue that sometimes your biggest stress is ur mind, and drinking here an there definately puts ur mind at ease, because more than anything it impairs your mind, and sometimes thats what you need, a lil break from stressing over everyting in ur life!!!

[ascendant]

Dude classic non drinkers remark man, who said you "need" to drink to have fun, all he was saying was that after busting or ass all work, or for two weeks, a drink or two definately hits the spot!!??? I mean you can't argue that sometimes your biggest stress is ur mind, and drinking here an there definately puts ur mind at ease, because more than anything it impairs your mind, and sometimes thats what you need, a lil break from stressing over everyting in ur life!!!

using something as an "outlet" as you state is the most common contributor to dependency. escaping stress i understand. but as you state it, "your biggest stress is ur mind"? escaping your problems with alcohol is alcoholism buddy.

as far as "classic non-drinkers" remark, i'm a bartender guy. i've had my share of heavy drinking, most likely plenty more than you. i used to party in the hamptons. nuff said? you need to stop assuming that since people are not advising you to drink that they're "non-drinkers". get over the fact that not all of us become dependent on it to escape our problems.

i can certainly argue that the biggest stress isn't your mind, and that the external factors are what the stressors are. if you can't handle what's going on in your life, i'd suggest meditation or some other positive means of releasing stress. but i'd sooner suggest a psychiatrist for stress over a night of drinking. alcohol is not a solution to stress.

[ascendant]

Dude I'm sure there are plently of guys on here who "never" go off cycle because they have a serious case of bigorexia, so lets not start talking about "need" and "required" in order to have fun...

this is just a ridiculous comment. we're talking about trying to avoid dependencies, negative outlets, and things that are negatively affecting our bodies. you are simply trying to redirect the finger at other issues unassociated with this thread to take away from the issues associated with alcohol. common sense would indicate that bigorexia is an issue as well, but is totally unrelated to alcohol consumption. lets keep on topic here.

[Undecided09]

its related to dependency, so its definately relevant...And who said I was escpaing any problems? Dude a drink here and there puts ur mind at ease, that doesnt make you an alcoholic, so u gotta get that straight...

[steve0]

its related to dependency, so its definately relevant...And who said I was escpaing any problems? Dude a drink here and there puts ur mind at ease, that doesnt make you an alcoholic, so u gotta get that straight...

bogorexia falls under the OCD bracket more than anything, when drinking comes into play you cannot compare the two, now you could compare plactic surgrey to bigorexia but no one here is thinking of getting bicep implants i hope.

[ascendant]

its related to dependency, so its definately relevant...And who said I was escpaing any problems? Dude a drink here and there puts ur mind at ease, that doesnt make you an alcoholic, so u gotta get that straight...

look, we both have very different opinions on the matter. neither of us is right, neither is wrong, it's all a matter of opinion. any form of trying to create a situation otherwise is futile. it's all a matter of perspective and priority.

there is nothing to "get straight" as you said. as far as it "putting ur mind at ease", you have to speak for yourself on that. you can't make that a universal statement for all consumers as the "ur" part of it seems to be directed at. some people such as yourself may feel it puts their mind at ease. however, some may become more stressed when drinking, hence why some people become rowdy or violent. it all depends on the person. also, how "at ease" does it have your mind when you did something stupid that night that you're regretting the next day? again, i just fail to see alcohol as an effective way to ease anything as there is far too much negative potential in it's consumption.

like i said before, if you wanna go out and have some drinks once in a while, by all means party it up. i'm not saying that's something you should never do. i don't think that drinking in moderation is that much of an issue within itself. to me, the concerns lie within a persons intentions behind the drinking and their reasoning for it. i've already stated all my opinions on the matter.

it comes down to what a persons priorities are and focusing on them while not making such sacrifices in other parts of your life as to diminish the quality of your life for a select few priorities. if you feel not drinking will somehow diminish the quality of your life, then i suppose you'd be better off drinking and being happier than not and being miserable. it's just not a healthy escape, release, destressor, or whatever else it is you're trying to use it for with the whole "mind at ease" saying.

[Undecided09]

[QUOTE=ascendant]look, we both have very different opinions on the matter. neither of us is right, neither is wrong, it's all a matter of opinion. any form of trying to create a situation otherwise is futile. it's all a matter of perspective and priority.
[QUOTE]

Smartest thing I've every heard u say...

[QUOTE]there is nothing to "get straight" as you said. as far as it "putting ur mind at ease", you have to speak for yourself on that. you can't make that a universal statement for all consumers as the "ur" part of it seems to be directed at. some people such as yourself may feel it puts their mind at ease. however, some may become more stressed when drinking, hence why some people become rowdy or violent. it all depends on the person. also, how "at ease" does it have your mind when you did something stupid that night that you're regretting the next day? again, i just fail to see alcohol as an effective way to ease anything as there is far too much negative potential in it's consumption.[QUOTE]

Well your assuming that I'm getting hammered everytime I drink, I was talking about having a few beers, or a few vodka tonics just to relax, I don't find that negative, or something I will regret the next day...


[QUOTE]like i said before, if you wanna go out and have some drinks once in a while, by all means party it up. i'm not saying that's something you should never do. i don't think that drinking in moderation is that much of an issue within itself. to me, the concerns lie within a persons intentions behind the drinking and their reasoning for it. i've already stated all my opinions on the matter.

it comes down to what a persons priorities are and focusing on them while not making such sacrifices in other parts of your life as to diminish the quality of your life for a select few priorities. if you feel not drinking will somehow diminish the quality of your life, then i suppose you'd be better off drinking and being happier than not and being miserable. it's just not a healthy escape, release, destressor, or whatever else it is you're trying to use it for with the whole "mind at ease" saying [QUOTE]

Well I'd like to contest that as long as it is under control it is healthy, not healthy as in beneficial to ur body, but it helps "most" people relax, and after hard week its healthy in helping that aspect...

Stop making ur posts so long, I hate reading, lol, jk....

[spittin' 'n cussin']

how bout we settle this over a beer...

...or twelve

[ascendant]

Well I'd like to contest that as long as it is under control it is healthy, not healthy as in beneficial to ur body, but it helps "most" people relax, and after hard week its healthy in helping that aspect

under your premise, cigarettes are healthy too, cause they help people unwind at times as well. fact is, something unhealthy for your body is unhealthy for your body, no matter the level of consumption or the reason for it's consumption.

if you want something to help you relax, try meditation, or a nice warm epsom salt bath. one of my personal favs is a full body massage. however, there is no legitmate reasoning to being able to find alcohol healthy.

[piepiezzz]

PS. Tonic water is not calorie free for those that don't know. Might as well have regular soda in there.

Soda water is calorie free.....Drink Vodka, Soda with a twist

[piepiezzz]

again though, you're indicating that in order to have a good time, the drinking is necessary. the point i keep trying to get across is that it's very well possible to go out and have fun doing other things than just drinking. if you feel drinking is a necessary component of "letting loose", then that right there is an issue that should be dealt with IMO.

oh, and why the need to mention that you're married to an NFL cheerleader? what does that have to do with this thread or anything about our discussion? oh, what am i saying, i'd brag too if i was.

I just trying to say that we all need to look at what we have sometimes, instead of being so pre-occupied with getting "HUGE" and not enjoying the benefits of our labor. I'm just saying sometimes I get caught up in lifting, training etc. and am like what a minute, I better enjoy all thes things that I have. I am lucky, but I worked damn hard to get what I have too.

[piepiezzz]

using something as an "outlet" as you state is the most common contributor to dependency. escaping stress i understand. but as you state it, "your biggest stress is ur mind"? escaping your problems with alcohol is alcoholism buddy.

as far as "classic non-drinkers" remark, i'm a bartender guy. i've had my share of heavy drinking, most likely plenty more than you. i used to party in the hamptons. nuff said? you need to stop assuming that since people are not advising you to drink that they're "non-drinkers". get over the fact that not all of us become dependent on it to escape our problems.

i can certainly argue that the biggest stress isn't your mind, and that the external factors are what the stressors are. if you can't handle what's going on in your life, i'd suggest meditation or some other positive means of releasing stress. but i'd sooner suggest a psychiatrist for stress over a night of drinking. alcohol is not a solution to stress.

Alcohol should not be a "remedy" as you are eluding too. Drinking alcohol socially as a way to celebrate life is what I am referring to. Enjoying the moment. You don't think steroid abuse is just as rampant or maybe even more so then alcohol in this forum. Steroids are as much a mind dependent drug as alcohol is. It takes you to a place that you can not go through "natural means". I've seen more head cases on juice, than alcoholics. I've seen guys blowing their heads off because they couldn't live being small, because their doctor advised them if the continued to juice they would die. Why is it convenient to pick on alcohol as as a mind altering drug, yet completely ignore the psychological affects of steroids....Are you going to tell me their are none??? Please. I don't think you HAVE to drink to have a good time...........BUt I don't think it hurts to enjoy yourself once in awhile......LIFE IS TOO SHORT.

[piepiezzz]

bogorexia falls under the OCD bracket more than anything, when drinking comes into play you cannot compare the two, now you could compare plactic surgrey to bigorexia but no one here is thinking of getting bicep implants i hope.

Bigoarexia falls under plastic surgery???? IF AND ONLY IF BIGOREXIA IS NOT ACCOMPANIED BY STEROID USE . Is plastic surgery against the law?? Are there mind altering substances which are used in plastic surgery. The simple act of participating in an activity that is ILLEGAL, proves the there is a psycho-sematic disorder to begin with (as in the use of banned substances). Am I admitting to haveing mental issues. More so in my use of steroids than alcohol. Absolutely. Go to the steroid forum and read about all of the people "mentally crashing" while coming off the juice. Steroid abuse is every bit as big of a problem as alcoholism, with one big difference. Alcohol is LEGAL!!!! I have seen people kill themselves, literally and figuratively because of their use (abuse) of steroids.

[Undecided09]

The comparison between Alcohol and Juice is very relevant, thanks pie..

[ascendant]

Alcohol should not be a "remedy" as you are eluding too. Drinking alcohol socially as a way to celebrate life is what I am referring to. Enjoying the moment. You don't think steroid abuse is just as rampant or maybe even more so then alcohol in this forum. Steroids are as much a mind dependent drug as alcohol is. It takes you to a place that you can not go through "natural means". I've seen more head cases on juice, than alcoholics. I've seen guys blowing their heads off because they couldn't live being small, because their doctor advised them if the continued to juice they would die. Why is it convenient to pick on alcohol as as a mind altering drug, yet completely ignore the psychological affects of steroids....Are you going to tell me their are none??? Please. I don't think you HAVE to drink to have a good time...........BUt I don't think it hurts to enjoy yourself once in awhile......LIFE IS TOO SHORT.

i find there are far more dangers, and there are unquestionably more deaths caused by alcohol consumption as opposed to gear. not sure what kind of scenario it is that you experience more issues with gear users than alcoholics, but i can assure you that is not the real-life case as there is far more alcoholics than gear "abusers".

anyone can become psychologically addicted to anything. however, the majority of gear users cycle on and off, hence elminating the majority (if not all) of the sides associated with gear. people who drink however don't "cycle" drinking, and like i've said before, people are asking all the time about drinking while on cycles, all the more proving my point that they feel a "need" for the alcohol, even at the expense of reducing the effectiveness of their cycle.

i'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, and have already stated i don't think you should never drink alcohol. i just find it frustrating that i see more posts about people asking if they can still drink while on a cycle than anything else on this board, and to me it points out a serious issue with our society in general.

the kind of people who are willing to drink while on a cycle are usually the people not concerned as much about their health, and those are the kind you'll more oftentimes find in the scenario you mentioned about having side-effects from the gear from them failing to take the necessary precautionary measures (checking cholesterol, bp, blood work, etc). with drinking, it will do damage to your liver. there's no stopping that. but with gear, taking precautionary measures and avoiding orals, you can remain virtually side-effect free, save for a select few people succeptible to particular life threatening sides, such as high cholesterol or high bp.

[bcap]

wow this has gotten insane since i last saw it.

the way i see it, the odd night out drinking isn't going to kill anyone.

[piepiezzz]

i find there are far more dangers, and there are unquestionably more deaths caused by alcohol consumption as opposed to gear. not sure what kind of scenario it is that you experience more issues with gear users than alcoholics, but i can assure you that is not the real-life case as there is far more alcoholics than gear "abusers".

anyone can become psychologically addicted to anything. however, the majority of gear users cycle on and off, hence elminating the majority (if not all) of the sides associated with gear. people who drink however don't "cycle" drinking, and like i've said before, people are asking all the time about drinking while on cycles, all the more proving my point that they feel a "need" for the alcohol, even at the expense of reducing the effectiveness of their cycle.

i'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, and have already stated i don't think you should never drink alcohol. i just find it frustrating that i see more posts about people asking if they can still drink while on a cycle than anything else on this board, and to me it points out a serious issue with our society in general.

the kind of people who are willing to drink while on a cycle are usually the people not concerned as much about their health, and those are the kind you'll more oftentimes find in the scenario you mentioned about having side-effects from the gear from them failing to take the necessary precautionary measures (checking cholesterol, bp, blood work, etc). with drinking, it will do damage to your liver. there's no stopping that. but with gear, taking precautionary measures and avoiding orals, you can remain virtually side-effect free, save for a select few people succeptible to particular life threatening sides, such as high cholesterol or high bp.

What does cycling on and off do??? You still go BACK TO STEROIDS ......which leaves you with a PSYCHOLOGICAL DEPENDENCY on it. Alcoholics take weeks or months off of drinking, just to prove they can, but they are still alcoholics. Yes alcohol does kill and effect more poeple......that's because there are 10,000 times the amount of people that drink then do gear. And I hope you truly don't believe the remarks in BOLD above. Even with preventative measures, there is no way to protect your liver, kidneys, or any internal organ for that matter 100% when on gear. Side-Effect Free??? With GEAR, PERMANENT side effects go with the territory. You accept this when making the choice to use. Casually drinking once a week is SIDE EFFECT FREE!!!!!!! Not Gear, sorry. I have been in this sport 18 years and have seen what gear can do to people. I can tell that you are kind of new to this say 5 years or so?? Close?? You are on GEAR and you are going to talk about drinkers not being concerned about their health?? If your so concerned about your health then become a professional 100% natural body builder. Because I know a few and they say the same thing about us. "We are in a sport to be healthy, yet we do things that are so sef-destructive (GEAR)"Sorry bud but when you sign up for gear you understand the risks, and they are more dnagerous than any drink that I have ever had, even with preventative steps. I think you are a bit Naive and maybe in denial of the effects of gear over time. Do some homework, not related to this board. ANd not ONE-SIDED RESEARCH EITHER.

Over time the psychological effects of gear are permanent and undisputable to the gear abuser. Going on and off cycle does not clear anyone from abusing gear. Participating in an illegal activity most would say is a symptom of an abuser. Admittedly, me included.

No one on here that is on GEAR, including myself, can EVER sit here and REPRIMEAND ANYONE for WANTING TO DRINK ON OR OFF CYCLE. It is hypocrisy at its worst. Look in the mirror before judging others. I understand young kids take gear to get girls and go out and drink 4 nights a week to meet them. That is not what we are talking about here.

[bda2424]

While you drink try taking some activated charcoal.....it helps absorb the toxins released from alcohol like aldehyde bodies.........then your body doesn't get too toxified by them. This doesn't effect your buzz at all and you'll feel great the next day if you take about 2 or 3 with the booz. You just might crap a lil black the next day. It's worked great for me in the past.

[hurricane1]

activated charcoal isnt that the same stuff that is in those generic chaser tablets on tv

[boxingbean]

cranberry and vodka is the key!! clean ur system and get buzzed!~

[boxingbean]

a really big bodybuilder at my gym once told me :"be easy, take your time, have patience with workin out and have fun with it...and sometimes a good night of drinkin carbs is good for u..."

[bda2424]

activated charcoal isnt that the same stuff that is in those generic chaser tablets on tv

generic is the key word there....that stuff might as well be called unactivated charcoal. The good stuff you can find at big chains such as whole foods, wild oats etc.

[jport1540]

Just curious, I have read clear liquors like Bacardi superior and what not over dark liquors. What is the reasoning behind this? Do darker liquors contain more sugar/carbs or calories on average?

[ascendant]

What does cycling on and off do??? You still go BACK TO STEROIDS ......which leaves you with a PSYCHOLOGICAL DEPENDENCY on it. Alcoholics take weeks or months off of drinking, just to prove they can, but they are still alcoholics. Yes alcohol does kill and effect more poeple......that's because there are 10,000 times the amount of people that drink then do gear. And I hope you truly don't believe the remarks in BOLD above. Even with preventative measures, there is no way to protect your liver, kidneys, or any internal organ for that matter 100% when on gear. Side-Effect Free??? With GEAR, PERMANENT side effects go with the territory. You accept this when making the choice to use. Casually drinking once a week is SIDE EFFECT FREE!!!!!!! Not Gear, sorry. I have been in this sport 18 years and have seen what gear can do to people. I can tell that you are kind of new to this say 5 years or so?? Close?? You are on GEAR and you are going to talk about drinkers not being concerned about their health?? If your so concerned about your health then become a professional 100% natural body builder. Because I know a few and they say the same thing about us. "We are in a sport to be healthy, yet we do things that are so sef-destructive (GEAR)"Sorry bud but when you sign up for gear you understand the risks, and they are more dnagerous than any drink that I have ever had, even with preventative steps. I think you are a bit Naive and maybe in denial of the effects of gear over time. Do some homework, not related to this board. ANd not ONE-SIDED RESEARCH EITHER.

Over time the psychological effects of gear are permanent and undisputable to the gear abuser. Going on and off cycle does not clear anyone from abusing gear. Participating in an illegal activity most would say is a symptom of an abuser. Admittedly, me included.

No one on here that is on GEAR, including myself, can EVER sit here and REPRIMEAND ANYONE for WANTING TO DRINK ON OR OFF CYCLE. It is hypocrisy at its worst. Look in the mirror before judging others. I understand young kids take gear to get girls and go out and drink 4 nights a week to meet them. That is not what we are talking about here.

you and me obviously have very different perspectives on the matter. however, i can say mine is just opinions. you seem to think what you believe is actual fact however, and are making incorrect assumptions.

for starters, gear does not necessarily affect the liver and kidneys unless you're doing orals, which i no longer use. so, show me conclusive evidence of the side-effects that are unavoidable with injects? bp and cholesterol are no prob for me as i keep them in check with flax oils and my diet being in decent check. so, what other "permanent side-effects" are you indicating?

to be honest, you actually were fairly accurate with the 5 year statement about me. however, 5 years is a lot of time to do your research, and having been a trainer almost all my working life, i have been around countless people who have been on gear. some are in great health and others aren't, but there are way too many other factors to consider rather than just the gear alone.

if you think gear is so dangerous, might want to take a look at mexico. since it can be bought over the counter there, many bb's take them, far more than here. watched a documentary on it on the news one time. had tons of guys on there talking about how they take them, some of the guys up into their 70's and 80's who've been taking them for 40-50years, and how they're in great shape and all their doctors tell them they're fine.

this debate will continue to go back and forth forever, cause you seem determined to jusify drinking in whatever way you can contradictory to me. not sure why, but as far as your request for research from me, i'd suggest you do the same and look up the definition for what's called a "troll". i'm here to open peoples minds to the reality of the matter. you seem to be here just to try to make others wrong and yourself right.

i already said if people are going to go out and drink that's of course their choice, but i also stated that many people seem to think they can't go out and enjoy themselves without drinking. that is where i have an issue with it. you however, seem to have misconstrued that. there is just too many other things you've misconstrued for me to continue with. i like debating, but not without rationale on both ends.

[piepiezzz]

you and me obviously have very different perspectives on the matter. however, i can say mine is just opinions. you seem to think what you believe is actual fact however, and are making incorrect assumptions.

for starters, gear does not necessarily affect the liver and kidneys unless you're doing orals, which i no longer use. so, show me conclusive evidence of the side-effects that are unavoidable with injects? bp and cholesterol are no prob for me as i keep them in check with flax oils and my diet being in decent check. so, what other "permanent side-effects" are you indicating?

to be honest, you actually were fairly accurate with the 5 year statement about me. however, 5 years is a lot of time to do your research, and having been a trainer almost all my working life, i have been around countless people who have been on gear. some are in great health and others aren't, but there are way too many other factors to consider rather than just the gear alone.

if you think gear is so dangerous, might want to take a look at mexico. since it can be bought over the counter there, many bb's take them, far more than here. watched a documentary on it on the news one time. had tons of guys on there talking about how they take them, some of the guys up into their 70's and 80's who've been taking them for 40-50years, and how they're in great shape and all their doctors tell them they're fine.

this debate will continue to go back and forth forever, cause you seem determined to jusify drinking in whatever way you can contradictory to me. not sure why, but as far as your request for research from me, i'd suggest you do the same and look up the definition for what's called a "troll". i'm here to open peoples minds to the reality of the matter. you seem to be here just to try to make others wrong and yourself right.

i already said if people are going to go out and drink that's of course their choice, but i also stated that many people seem to think they can't go out and enjoy themselves without drinking. that is where i have an issue with it. you however, seem to have misconstrued that. there is just too many other things you've misconstrued for me to continue with. i like debating, but not without rationale on both ends.

I am rational, I do understand where you are coming from, but you are rationalizing in order to justify your use of steroids . I don't need to justify it........It is wrong. But that is a choice I MADE.........But don't glorify gear like it can't hurt you, or won't hurt you. All I am saying is the gear abuse is even more dangerous than alcohol ABUSE....... Taking certain precautions only limit your susceptibility to permanent negative results from gear....I just don't want you "GLORIFYING" gear and than beating up alcohol use in the same paragraph.....because as I said it's hypocritical. I don't GLORIFY alcohol abuse but going out a couple times a month is not alcohol ABUSE.

You are right, you shouldn't have to drink to have a good time, but every once in awhile it doesn't hurt to let loose, a bit.

We can agree to disagree. No harm done.......

[ascendant]

I am rational, I do understand where you are coming from, but you are rationalizing in order to justify your use of steroids . I don't need to justify it........It is wrong. But that is a choice I MADE.........But don't glorify gear like it can't hurt you, or won't hurt you. All I am saying is the gear abuse is even more dangerous than alcohol ABUSE....... Taking certain precautions only limit your susceptibility to permanent negative results from gear....I just don't want you "GLORIFYING" gear and than beating up alcohol use in the same paragraph.....because as I said it's hypocritical. I don't GLORIFY alcohol abuse but going out a couple times a month is not alcohol ABUSE.

You are right, you shouldn't have to drink to have a good time, but every once in awhile it doesn't hurt to let loose, a bit.

We can agree to disagree. No harm done.......

i think we agree more than it seems, just misinterpretations on both ends. it's all good bro. i completely understand what you're saying.

[NoFaith068]

Find a suitable replacement. Something else that will bring you a little bit of pleasure. When my friends are drinking, I have my water jug on hand to remind me of what I should be drinking. I also like to go out and get a good cigar, or even some dip. A little nicotene is a lot better than alcohol. Of course, this is only a once every other week thing, don't think i'm addicted to tobacco :P

[DNoMac]

Find a suitable replacement. Something else that will bring you a little bit of pleasure. When my friends are drinking, I have my water jug on hand to remind me of what I should be drinking. I also like to go out and get a good cigar, or even some dip. A little nicotene is a lot better than alcohol. Of course, this is only a once every other week thing, don't think i'm addicted to tobacco :P

xanax, vicadin? just playin..