Is whey protein really that bad??!!

**guest589745** · 08-06-2006, 01:41 AM

I was reading pinns sticky and this shocked me:

In regards to the amount of whey protein your body is able to "use"

"I've seen studies that showed as low as 12%.While others where fractionally higher."

Does this include when consuming with a moderate amount of low GI complex carbs too?

Cause I hae always thought whey was great for you

AND I JUST ORDERED 25lbs!!!!!!

**IronFreakX** · 08-06-2006, 03:03 AM

ehh I've seen studies that say too much protein can kill you

If you're a healthy individual you will absorb what you need, 12% my ass.

**zaneisgreat** · 08-06-2006, 05:57 AM

Whey protein is awesome. Of course, almost all of your daily protein intake should be from actual food but whey protein can most certainly have a spot in a bodybuilding diet.

**Kärnfysikern** · 08-06-2006, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Skullsmasher

I was reading pinns sticky and this shocked me:

In regards to the amount of whey protein your body is able to "use"

"I've seen studies that showed as low as 12%.While others where fractionally higher."

Does this include when consuming with a moderate amount of low GI complex carbs too?

Cause I hae always thought whey was great for you

AND I JUST ORDERED 25lbs!!!!!!

What do they exactly mean by use?

Whey is one of the most complete proteins out there. It doesnt get much better than whey.

**guest589745** · 08-06-2006, 12:20 PM

Read the first page johan and you'll understand.

Nump.

**guest589745** · 08-07-2006, 12:26 AM

Bump!

**Kärnfysikern** · 08-07-2006, 01:11 AM

I guess you are refering to this part of his sticky

Another thing the human body hasn't acclimated to is whey protein. You'd be surprised at what little amount of whey protein the body utilizes after consuming say 23 grams. This is something the supplement giants don't really want the average person to find out. They have the average 23 grams per serving there for a reason simply because they too know the body can't and doesn't want to absorb fast acting protein like that of whey

Since he has no reference or anything to that claim I cant realy comment on it.

It also sounds from his comments later on that he is lactose intollerant.

He then goes on to say

Post workout I immediately supplement with liquid amino acids.5 grams of Arginine,5 grams of Leucine. Then head home immediately and consume a solid meal. Usually with 15-20 minutes after training. Right before I have my PWO meal, I supplement with 10 grams of glutamine.

Well consuming a whey shake with 70 grams of whey would give him 2 grams of arginine, 8 grams of leucine and 13 grams of glutamine along with a bunch of essential amino acids. Probably cheaper aswell.
So to avoid the whey shake and instead supplement with 3 specific amino acids doesnt make any sense to me. Especialy not since 2 of the amino acids he supplement with isnt essential and as far as I know the essential aminacids is what is most important pwo.

Anyway since I dont know at all his reasoning behind what he writes I can not critique it and its unfair to do so when he isnt here to discuss his ideas either. I just dont se any point in avoiding whey when it is the most complete protein around. If anyone is worried about it beeing quickly absorbed just zip on the shake for a hour and that problem is solved.

There is practicly NO difference betwen giving the body fast absorbing protein repetedly or slow absorbing protein in one sitting.

**guest589745** · 08-07-2006, 01:14 AM

Thanks Johan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good Point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think yer right really.

**Kärnfysikern** · 08-07-2006, 01:14 AM

100 grams of whey also gives a total of 50 grams of essential amino acids and 18 grams of glutamine. Try to get EAA's that cheap with pure EAA and glutamine supplements.

**guest589745** · 08-07-2006, 01:15 AM

Totally valid points man, I shoulda known that.

**Kärnfysikern** · 08-07-2006, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Skullsmasher

Thanks Johan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Good Point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think yer right really.

no problem bro

but like I said Im not bashing his reasoning since I dont know what he base it on. But just looking at it like this and it makes no sense to me.

**guest589745** · 08-07-2006, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by johan

no problem bro

but like I said Im not bashing his reasoning since I dont know what he base it on. But just looking at it like this and it makes no sense to me.

Yea pinn knows a lot but, that doesnt make sense now remembering what you said.

**oswaldosalcedo** · 08-10-2006, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by johan

I guess you are refering to this part of his sticky

Since he has no reference or anything to that claim I cant realy comment on it.

It also sounds from his comments later on that he is lactose intollerant.

He then goes on to say

.

there is lactose free whey and you can mix with casein anyway.

**AleX-69** · 08-10-2006, 03:26 PM

I always felt whey is working good for me. Some really big guys i know soley use whey + food as there protein sources. That means either you don't need much protein at all to grow exceptionaly OR whey is working as intended.

After all whey is - just like any other protein - broken down into amino acids, just like all carbs are broken down to sugar. The only exceptions in this department are fats. So as long as no one provides a study which proves that whey isn't absorbed just as any other protein i believe it is working as it is supposed to.

**oswaldosalcedo** · 08-11-2006, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

I always felt whey is working good for me. Some really big guys i know soley use whey + food as there protein sources. That means either you don't need much protein at all to grow exceptionaly OR whey is working as intended.

After all whey is - just like any other protein - broken down into amino acids, just like all carbs are broken down to sugar. The only exceptions in this department are fats. So as long as no one provides a study which proves that whey isn't absorbed just as any other protein i believe it is working as it is supposed to.

whey isolate is too fast,that way, perhaps it is not absorbed all,casein is slower, it form something like gel,it is absorbed more slowly .

**mrmagoo82** · 08-12-2006, 01:16 PM

I heard from a nutritionist friend of mine a while back that if you consume an exxagerated amount of protien that protien turns to sugar so like if you weigh about 200 lbs you should only consume double that before it starts turning to sugar, he also said that varies according to the person

**chest6** · 08-12-2006, 03:54 PM

turns to sugar?

**guest589745** · 08-12-2006, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by chest6

turns to sugar?

Maybe he means basically it is then stored as excess carbs are, as fat cells?

**SMYL_GR8** · 08-12-2006, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by mrmagoo82

I heard from a nutritionist friend of mine a while back that if you consume an exxagerated amount of protien that protien turns to sugar so like if you weigh about 200 lbs you should only consume double that before it starts turning to sugar, he also said that varies according to the person

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. And if you stop lifting, your muscle will "turn to" fat.

**1buffsob** · 08-12-2006, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by mrmagoo82

I heard from a nutritionist friend of mine a while back that if you consume an exxagerated amount of protien that protien turns to sugar so like if you weigh about 200 lbs you should only consume double that before it starts turning to sugar, he also said that varies according to the person

Really? That's cool. I heard from a geologist friend of mine that if you eat coal, you'll crap diamonds.

1buffsob

_________________________________________

WARNING: The sarcastic comment made by 1buffsob is in no way correct. Please do not take this advice to heart. It was only made to emphasize how "hearsay" without any actual research or just plane logic is dangerous. Do not ingest coal nor hearsay without researching the consequences. The ingesting of hearsay will most likely lead to ignorance, as demonstrated by our friend mrmagoo82. The ingesting of coal will most likely kill you.

**guest589745** · 08-12-2006, 10:37 PM

If you have a sig, I'm gettin one.

**Superballer** · 08-13-2006, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by 1buffsob

Really? That's cool. I heard from a geologist friend of mine that if you eat coal, you'll crap diamonds.

1buffsob

_________________________________________

WARNING: The sarcastic comment made by 1buffsob is in no way correct. Please do not take this advice to heart. It was only made to emphasize how "hearsay" without any actual research or just plane logic is dangerous. Do not ingest coal nor hearsay without researching the consequences. The ingesting of hearsay will most likely lead to ignorance, as demonstrated by our friend mrmagoo82. The ingesting of coal will most likely kill you.

LMAO.......

________________________________________

**IronFreakX** · 08-13-2006, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by mrmagoo82

I heard from a nutritionist friend of mine a while back that if you consume an exxagerated amount of protien that protien turns to sugar so like if you weigh about 200 lbs you should only consume double that before it starts turning to sugar, he also said that varies according to the person

Ok about this comment

Isnt it true that as much as 40%?? I think?? of protein can turn into carbs ie sugar when a person is consuming only Pro/Fat all day and the carbs only from veggies ??

I read that from the Atkins book and I think there was a study Im not 100% sure about the actual % but I do remember it saying a % of protein turns into carbs....

**guest589745** · 08-13-2006, 01:54 AM

yea if you dont eat enough carbs, you r body uses protein as them in some way I believe.

**Kärnfysikern** · 08-13-2006, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by IronFreakX

Ok about this comment

Isnt it true that as much as 40%?? I think?? of protein can turn into carbs ie sugar when a person is consuming only Pro/Fat all day and the carbs only from veggies ??

I read that from the Atkins book and I think there was a study Im not 100% sure about the actual % but I do remember it saying a % of protein turns into carbs....

http://www.insulin-pumpers.org/howto/pfandbs-2.html

Most authorities believe that the amount of protein converted to glucose is quite small, except under conditions of intense exercise or metablic starvation. Under these conditions amino acids produce the major source of glucose for blood sugar maintenance.

I dont know what % that would mean thoúgh. Trying to find info but its ****ing hard. It seems like alot of aminoacids gets converted into carbs. But at the same time alot of fat gets turned into ketones and the ketones are the primary source of energy during carbohydrate starvation. Atleast as far as I know

I do remember reading (cant remeber where so not very reliable info) that if a keto diet contains more than like 20-25% protein it will kick the body out of ketosis because of the gluconeogenesis.

**Kärnfysikern** · 08-13-2006, 07:00 AM

Im reading a bit on
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/a...n_sparing.html
right now and from his answeres to question it seems like the body will convert as much protein as it needs to to satisfie carb needs. i.e the conversion can probably be as high as 90% if needed by the body... Not 100% though since not all amino acids can be converted into glucose.

**svarturer** · 08-13-2006, 08:28 AM

johan knows his shit

**AleX-69** · 08-13-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by johan

Im reading a bit on
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/a...n_sparing.html
right now and from his answeres to question it seems like the body will convert as much protein as it needs to to satisfie carb needs. i.e the conversion can probably be as high as 90% if needed by the body... Not 100% though since not all amino acids can be converted into glucose.

pretty good site there, johan isn't it?

bought the books already? Let me know if you still wanna start paleo.

AleX

**Kärnfysikern** · 08-13-2006, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by AleX-69

pretty good site there, johan isn't it?

bought the books already? Let me know if you still wanna start paleo.

AleX

Im defenetly looking into it

Checking out the forum on that site as we speak.

**guest589745** · 08-19-2006, 11:29 PM

^^^^

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