Post Workout Nutrition Advice?

[Columbus]

I know, I know, not another one…Im just as sick of them as you guys but this is different. I am fairly verse in nutrition. Competed in two shows thus far and training for my next in about 13 months. Anyways, during on my current split, my nutitonalist/trainer has written me out this outlay for my PW nutrition. Now, I don’t usually question his thoughts, but intested in what you have to say and your theories. For 2 reasons, one I’ve heard Gatorade isn’t necessary unless you are a marathon man (Dextrose and my stomach do NOT agree, will work on it, so dex is out) and cream of rice is absolutely rancid. I will continue to force these down, but gimme some thoughts.

Note – Only looking for food swap advice…thanks bruthas and good luck to everyone!

TRAINING FROM 445PM TO 6PM

6PM
Creatine, bcaas, glutamine
3 SERVINGS OF GATORADE, 1 SCOOP WHEY
(80G OF CARBS, 25G OF PROTEIN)
(is Gatorade here benefital, and I mean have you seen results from using it vs non?)

6:30 (as soon as I get home)
3 servings of CREAM OF RICE
1 SCOOP BLEND (90G OF CARBS, 25G OF PRO)
Can I or does anyone use rice cakes as a pw meal carb source? Is cream of wheat any better tasting? I will continue to suck down the cream of rice, but just curious what I can pose to him

Then

730
1 cup oats
8oz beef/fish chicken

900 (prebed meal)
8oz flank
3 egg whites

[zodiac666]

gatorade is sucrose and dextrose so it would be fine to spike your insulin PWO

i would up the protein PWO and PPWO from 25g to 40g

[audis4]

PWO: oats and whey...done!
PPWO: oats, yams etc. and chicken or another protein...done!

[Columbus]

gatorade is sucrose and dextrose so it would be fine to spike your insulin PWO

i would up the protein PWO and PPWO from 25g to 40g

its 50g actually just over the course of 30 minutes....25min immidiately...25g 30 minutes later...

[Columbus]

PWO: oats and whey...done!
PPWO: oats, yams etc. and chicken or another protein...done!

we are under the opionion that you need those quick carbs to shuttle.....but to each his own, you do whatever works.....I'm thinking the rice cake idea may be just as suitable as cream of rice......damn that stuff is nasttttty.

[perfectbeast2001]

you already know my opinion on your PWO and PPWO! I agree with Audis. Might add a little dex to the powdered oats.

[zodiac666]

its 50g actually just over the course of 30 minutes....25min immidiately...25g 30 minutes later...

i have always done 50g fast absorbing protein (whey) PWO, then PPWO 40g-50g from a meat source along with some slow digesting complex carbs

[Columbus]

Sugars, syrups, honey, molasses, Gatorlode, Gatorade, soft drinks, muffins, pancakes, waffles, white bread, whole meal bread, kaiser roll, shredded wheat, bread sticks, bagels, graham crackers, baked potatoes, Grapenuts cereal, Mini Wheats whole wheat breakfast cereal, Rice Krispies cereal, corn flakes cereal, raisin bran cereal, Bran flakes cereal, Total cereal, Cheerios cereal, cupcakes, doughnuts, croissants, white and brown rice, new potatoes, chocolate PowerBar, raw pineapple, double chocolate Pop Tarts, boxed macaroni and cheese, plain or cheese pizza, plain micro-waved cooked popcorn, sweet corn, carrots, beets, raisins, dates, cranberry juice cocktail, watermelon, tomato sauce, parsnips, puffed rice cakes, pretzels, regular ice cream, and winter squash.

[zodiac666]

PWO: oats and whey...done!
PPWO: oats, yams etc. and chicken or another protein...done!

this has probably been debated alot but why don't you think you should spike your insulin PWO?

[Columbus]

you already know my opinion on your PWO and PPWO! I agree with Audis. Might add a little dex to the powdered oats.

yup....all good...I just feel it takes to long to digest...that and I am already geting close to 4 cups a day....blah....maybe some of the packaged quick oats......there's an option

[zodiac666]

Sugars, syrups, honey, molasses, Gatorlode, Gatorade, soft drinks, muffins, pancakes, waffles, white bread, whole meal bread, kaiser roll, shredded wheat, bread sticks, bagels, graham crackers, baked potatoes, Grapenuts cereal, Mini Wheats whole wheat breakfast cereal, Rice Krispies cereal, corn flakes cereal, raisin bran cereal, Bran flakes cereal, Total cereal, Cheerios cereal, cupcakes, doughnuts, croissants, white and brown rice, new potatoes, chocolate PowerBar, raw pineapple, double chocolate Pop Tarts, boxed macaroni and cheese, plain or cheese pizza, plain micro-waved cooked popcorn, sweet corn, carrots, beets, raisins, dates, cranberry juice cocktail, watermelon, tomato sauce, parsnips, puffed rice cakes, pretzels, regular ice cream, and winter squash.

????

[audis4]

this has probably been debated alot but why don't you think you should spike your insulin PWO?

Gives me too great of an insulin 'crash' about an hour after it was 'spiked.' I think oats do just the same for me (my lifts have gone up each week while cutting!!) and they are as cheap if not cheaper.

[Columbus]

rice cakes taste pretty damn good nowadays...before they were cardboard.....now they got some good flava

[perfectbeast2001]

I have same experience as audis. if i use dex i feel like shite 1 hour later. Now i use 50g pro, 80g oats, 20g dex. No crash. I will go back to all dex when running slin but thats about it.

[Columbus]

I agree....I hate dex.....str8 anyways....but the gatorade mix, then the additional simple carbs works wonders!

[Giants11]

this has probably been debated alot but why don't you think you should spike your insulin PWO?

Well the reason I have debated this issue is that there is simply no proof that elevated plasma insulin levels within a physiological range increases protein systhesis.

Quite simply the argument for spiking insulin is mainly a bunch of brotelligence.

If you look back on some of my posts I present my argument, which up to this point I do not believe has been refuted with anything that I would consider tangible.

[Columbus]

u use gatorade right?

[Giants11]

Nope.

[perfectbeast2001]

"brotelligence" - LMAO

[zodiac666]

Well the reason I have debated this issue is that there is simply no proof that elevated plasma insulin levels within a physiological range increases protein systhesis.

Quite simply the argument for spiking insulin is mainly a bunch of brotelligence.

If you look back on some of my posts I present my argument, which up to this point I do not believe has been refuted with any that I would consider tangible.

i looked back on some or your posts. so there is no benefit to spiking insulin PWO, just the downside of crashing shortly after.

i know people spike there insulin artificially PWO by injecting it, so does dextrose just not spike it high enough? i mean you wouldn't want really low insulin levels PWO right? so it would seem that the more insulin you release PWO the better?

it doesnt make sense that there would be a strict cutoff point where if your insulin level is a tiny bit higher increased protein syntheses happens and a tiny bit lower and nothing happens?

if you could point me to a thread that answers my ?'s or if you could explain it (using small words) i would appreciate it.

not trying to start anything, obviously you are much more educated in this area than me, which is why im asking you

[novastepp]

what you want after a workout is protein synthesis to occur. aminos will start it, and food will start it. carbs are used as fuel and stop catabolism for your body and protein starts the synthesis part. we use a fast acting protein to get that started as soon as possible and to stop catabolism (which food will do alone). insulin will stop catabolism, but oats will provide enough of a "response" for that to occur. i have found no reason to need a "spike". however, if you are using slin, then you would want to go dex. but you aren't so its pointless. take in a serving or 2 of BCAA's around your workouts and just eat before and afterwards.

[zodiac666]

i understand the catabolism part

but dont very high levels of insulin (such as injecting it) cause a big increase in protein synthesis? if so wouldn't medium high levels of insulin (such as caused by 80g of dextrose) increase protein synthesis more than lower levels?

im not trying to justify dex PWO, i just want to do whatever is best for muscle growth

also i have seen a few well respected guys say that high gi carbs will not increase protein synthesis more that low gi carbs PWO but i cant find the thread that explains it scientificly.

my bad

[sooners04]

Here is the way I look at it. Some of the members on this board use dex and some don't. Some of the pictures of the members that do use dex show me that it DOES in fact have a positive effect. All the scientific mumbo jumbo means jack to me. Show me proof (pictures) that eating complex carbs PWO will make you look BETTER than dex PWO and I will change. If shooting insulin PWO is ideal then why wouldn't you want to use something (dex) that will simulate the effects of insulin.

[1buffsob]

What you have to realize, is that there is no way to naturally spike insulin high enough to create the type of protein synthesis that injecting 10iu's would. It's simply not feasible. If you consumed 1,000g of dextrose, it still wouldn't compare to injecting 1iu of insulin.

Basically, dextrose PWO will not create anymore protein synthesis than oats/yams/rice/etc. would. The only thing it will do is replinish glycogen faster. That's it.

1buffsob

[novastepp]

buff is exactly right... and glycogen replenishment is going to take a few days at least. so teh speed isn't REALLY an issue. there is a slight difference though, yes.

[sooners04]

I understand that dextrose doesn't compare to slin but I was under the impression that it came closer than food. If there is no difference between the two then why is there a debate about every 12 hours about PWO.

[1buffsob]

I understand that dextrose doesn't compare to slin but I was under the impression that it came closer than food. If there is no difference between the two then why is there a debate about every 12 hours about PWO.

There is a difference. The time it takes to replenish glycogen. But people too often (and mistakenly) associate that with increased protein synthesis.

1buffsob

[Giants11]

Here is the way I look at it. Some of the members on this board use dex and some don't. Some of the pictures of the members that do use dex show me that it DOES in fact have a positive effect. All the scientific mumbo jumbo means jack to me. Show me proof (pictures) that eating complex carbs PWO will make you look BETTER than dex PWO and I will change. If shooting insulin PWO is ideal then why wouldn't you want to use something (dex) that will simulate the effects of insulin.

Honestly, that is the brotelligence I am talking about. That's a typical meathead response.

Genetics and or drugs will play bigger role than anything PWO. You are telling me that now pictures validate dextrose use?

How can you logically present this as a point for the use of dextrose?

Pictures are not proof, not sure where you got that from but you are dead wrong. If I take all kinds of drugs I can basically make up for any shortcoming in my diet. Hell, I could eat anything and still be ripped, but you're telling me pictures would somehow validate me eating junk food as "proper dieting", without you knowing the complete story. Sorry don't buy it.

Even without drugs genetics are hard to compete against. I know guys that eat nothing buy fast food and crap all day but are ripped 24/7. Are you now going to somehow tell me that they are eating properly and they are proof that fast food is perfect for getting you ripped.

Pictures do not validate physiology I'm sorry. They may validate someone's knowledge about training, diet. But then again they may not at all.

I've yet to see the day whena picture can prove that spiked insulin levels can increase protein synthesis.

I realize this theory is aginst the grain and counter to what most have been taught. But all bodybuiliding is based on science. You think pro's just inject steroids and don't know the science behind the drugs??? How bout you try and look in the steroid forum and look at the guys that validate what they say with scientific evidence. Does diet not deserve the same process of validation?

You come up with something other than show me pictures, and I'll listen to any point you are willing to present.

[Giants11]

I understand that dextrose doesn't compare to slin but I was under the impression that it came closer than food. If there is no difference between the two then why is there a debate about every 12 hours about PWO.

Nothing can come compare. Its like stating that tribulus comes close to Test.

Anyone that's ever taken Test know that's laughable.

You can never accomplish with any kind of food the insulin spike that you get from exogenous slin. You can achive supraphysilogical levels, which breaks all the rules, hence the reason slin is used.

[Columbus]

G man - U use oats and gatorade?

[audis4]

G man - U use oats and gatorade?

You already asked him that his answer was, NOPE to the gatorade!!

[Columbus]

my bad missed it