Giving Away Dextrose

[usualsuspect]

I have a 50 lb brown bag of dextrose laying around from the days I was trying to kill myself. There is about 30-35 lbs of sugar remaining. Pick up the shipping cost and you can have it.

Just let me know who wants it.

[IBdmfkr]

lol.. you couldn't pay me to take it

You could use it to bake a cake and then give it to your fat neighbors?

[usualsuspect]

ha maybe I'll donate it then to my town's Little League Baseball team. They can use it to lay down the baselines

lol.. you couldn't pay me to take it

You could use it to bake a cake and then give it to your fat neighbors?

[FinaZurp]

I have a 50 lb brown bag of dextrose laying around from the days I was trying to kill myself. There is about 30-35 lbs of sugar remaining. Pick up the shipping cost and you can have it.

Just let me know who wants it.

What do you mean when you were trying to kill yourself? Since when has dextrose been bad?

[usualsuspect]

It has always been disasterous to your health, unfortunately (fortunately) I only as of recently finally accepted it.

What do you mean when you were trying to kill yourself? Since when has dextrose been bad?

[zodiac666]

It has always been disasterous to your health, unfortunately (fortunately) I only as of recently finally accepted it.

specifically how is dextrose disastrous to your health?
i take it with every PWO shake with good results, and i am very curious why you say it is so unhealthy.

[usualsuspect]

Zodiac,
Ever since i dropped the post-workout shake I feel amazing, leaner, stronger and less pointless sugar in my system. I really respect guys like John Berardi, SC, and John Ivy ("Nutrient Timing") who are big proponents of PWO nutrition but I have never had good success with the post wo carb protein combo personally. I have been following a paleo version of natural Hormonal Enhancement with very good success.

I'd suggest nixing the refined-food based post-workout meal, and instead ingesting something like sweet potatoes and chicken, or bananas and lean beef.

If your body is primed to replinish glycogen stores and increase protein synthesis as much as is postulated during this time, this should do the trick while also increasing the total nutrient-density of your overal diet. This might also be a way to reduce the incidence of increased a**ominal fat that I've heard some people complaining of using the traditional dextrose/whey PWO nutrition idea.

Either way, it's worth a try. Give it four weeks consistently, and see how you feel. I would give it a go without the PWO meal and see how that works for you. It's all a matter of personal physiology tempered by your current goals.

The best thing to do after a work out is to take a 30 minute walk. During this walk you will burn fat because you have released growth hormone and your body is using free fatty acids to restore the phosphates and glycogen in your muscles. If you block that process by consuming anything that contains simple carbohydrate you will shut down this fat burning process.

Muscle is the most insulin sensitive tissue in the body and you must have lots of it and drain it so that it retains its sensitivity and ability to soak up glucose from the blood stream. Replentishing muscle glycogen rapidly requires the ingestion of glucose in large doses. Once you compensate for the drained glycogen by refilling the muscle you lose the insulin sensitivity which the exercise produced. Those who supercompensate through carbohydrate loading to increase the glycogen content of their muscles, diminish their insulin sensitivity.

[PainfulPleasure]

after 45 minutes of exercise your cortisol levels go up.

[rake922]

Those who supercompensate through carbohydrate loading to increase the glycogen content of their muscles, diminish their insulin sensitivity.

1. What are the effect and repercussions for diminish insulin sensitivity.
2. Is a Post workout shake of dextrose and whey catabolic?

[24labor]

Ive always used dex but can't tell if its a sure thing I might switch to oats in my shake but this should be a good thread if everyone throws in some good advice

[zimmy]

i have some and decided not to use it pwo...but i used it for baking instead to get rid of it... it's good, but don't use it in recipe's that call the sugar to stay a lil granulated cus it mixes / melts alot better than normal sugar.

[zodiac666]

just about all the scientific articles i have read over the years have said to have fast acting nutrients PWO. they have also said that there is a window of opportunity for nutrients PWO and that you should ingest fast acting protein and carbs as soon as possible after training.

now this is just what i have read, mostly from flex mag, and MD, but until i see some scientific articles that show why another method is better i will stick with what has been proven to me. i know that the nutritional world is constantly evolving so hopefully they will continue doing experiments that will show what exactly the best nutrients to have PWO are.

[IBdmfkr]

Maltodextrin can be used instead of dextrose as well as other sources of carbohydrates..

flex mag and MD.. there's a good source if information, did they also state that whey protein is superior to animal proteins in between the unlimited pages of advertisement.

[zodiac666]

Maltodextrin can be used instead of dextrose as well as other sources of carbohydrates..

flex mag and MD.. there's a good source if information, did they also state that whey protein is superior to animal proteins inbetween the unlimited pages of advertisment.

well the only source of information i had when i first started weight training was from the magazines, primarily FLEX. without them i would have been completely lost. i haven't read much of the magazines in the last few years, but FLEX used to have some great SCIENTIFIC articles that taught me a lot of useful information. i put on 50lbs of muscle naturally the first year i started training just by going by what i read in FLEX, so apparently it was a good source of information. and yes i have read more than one article that stated that for PWO nutrition you should have a fast acting protein source such as whey.

also im not talking about the "scientific" articles that are just promoting some supplement company, and yes even back then the insane amount of advertisements were irritating as hell.

also im curious what you use as your main source of information. my favorite source of information is scientific articles that test things out and then show you what happened to each group of test subjects. i hardly ever go by word of mouth, i need to have stuff proven to me.

[IBdmfkr]

Agreed Zodiac.. I go off of case studies that I've read but many are hard to find on actual bodybuilders, normally you'll find two groups of adult males who are most likely out of shape and don't lift on a regular basis. The best way I've found to scuplt my current theories is from my own personal use of substances and foods as well as many clients I've experiemented with first hand as well as close friends who also compete at various levels from novice to nationals.
Dextrose may work great for you, health-wise though there are studies that show it isn't the most ideal choice but yet I do believe it will aid in shuttling nutrients to the muscle with success, better than a lower GI carb? I couldn't tell you.
One thing I can tell you is when I used to use dextrose I would get horrible crashes when my Blood sugar would come back down so I switched to using 10g's BCAA's + 40g's maltodextrin immediately PWO with a meal following 30-45mins after. I prefer this method by far and am able to take in more carbs and gain less bodyfat.

[usualsuspect]

1. What are the effect and repercussions for diminish insulin sensitivity.
2. Is a Post workout shake of dextrose and whey catabolic?

It is the progressive loss of insulin sensitivity that initiates the aging cascade. Aging becomes accelerated with diminishing insulin sensitivity as a**ominal obesity begins to develop and glucose-triggered advanced glycation end products begin to accumulate. One of the main purposes of exercise is to enhance insulin sensitivity. When you ingest the dextrose and whey protein drinks or attempt the supercompensation practiced by some endurance athletes (which was one of the things that started the pasta craze during the Berlin Olympics, a practice that has now been abandoned by elite athletes) you lose the sensitivity that was the objective of the exercise. You may even be worse off if you work out and practice compensation than had you just taken a walk.

Dextrose/protein shakes are also a source of excess calories that allows your growing insulin resistence to result in a**ominal obesity over time. Sensitivity was one of the main objectives of the exercise in the first place. So, you nullify what is perhaps the most important benefit of the exercise. You definitely do not need the elevated blood glucose that comes from the many post work out drinks that are sold out there (i.e Berardi's "Surge").

Another reason not to consume dextrose post-workout is that they keep your sweet tooth alive and well. Dextrose taste very sweet to someone like myself who consumes it so rarely that when I find it in a drink or food I am aware of it and find that it tastes peculiar and unpalatable. Small amounts of sugar produce a cloying taste response in me when they are not even noticed by others. Let's face it, every mass produced drink or manufactured food item has to be sweet in order to sell to the bulk of people whose food contains sugar in some form. They wouldn't sell if they didn't appeal to mass tastes that have already been conditioned to expect salt and sugar and fat. And it is an evolved adaptation to find glucose pleasant tasting. The brain lives on glucose for its energy and tastes evolved during a time when glucose was scarce. Take an energy-hungry brain that had to be protected during a time when glucose was scarce and you get a human animal with a strong preference for sweet substances.

Overtime high insulin levels do two things (yes its a double edge sword ppl): 1. it causes your blood sugar to fall and makes you hungry and a bit foggy or irritable, 2. it preferentially directs the energy you eat into fat rather than muscle and organs because they become resistant to the insulin signal.

I could go on, but a more general point is lurking here. A lot of fitness advice (Flex, the boards, bb mags) is just repeated rather than thought through and it is probably true that most manufacturers go beyond the pale in marketing their products. Follow the money and you'll quickly realize where the problem lies behind taking these so-called experts advice at face value.

Let's continue to do our own research and not let the industry dictate what's good for us and whats not. They obviousily don't always have our best interests in mind.

Just my .02 (okay .03 to account for rising gas prices

[24labor]

so what would the afeects of mixing say a higher Gi and lower like oats and some dex at the same time??

[brutesinme]

After reading a couple posts regarding paleo diets i decided to switch to a semi paleo (modelled after one i saw in a post by johan a week or two ago). anyways, my pwo is whey and banana/blueberries and while this is far to short a time to notice anything in regards to strength gains, i FEEL better after taking it. I don't have the crash i'd always get with dex, even if i ate a half hour after my shake, i'd crash horribly. In addition, i feel better all day long. I have more energy and better concentration eating this way. I'll never switch back.

[Giants11]

Actually fella's its quite simple.

You do not want to spike insulin sky high, ever. Esp. since elevated insulin within physiological levels does not stimulate protein synthesis.

Spikin your insulin is not very good for you and consuming whole grains over processed sugar is an obvious health benefit. If you were to argue against that, I'd label you retarded.

[rake922]

Actually fella's its quite simple.

You do not want to spike insulin sky high, ever. Esp. since elevated insulin within physiological levels does not stimulate protein synthesis.

Spikin your insulin is not very good for you and consuming whole grains over processed sugar is an obvious health benefit. If you were to argue against that, I'd label you retarded.

Please explain what are the repercussions when somebody consumes dextrose in high amounts and spikes insulin

[usualsuspect]

Please explain what are the repercussions when somebody consumes dextrose in high amounts and spikes insulin

Did you skip over every post in this thread? Perhaps it was not the answer you were looking for, but I essentially answered you're question above in as much detail as possible. If Giants can offer further explanation I guess that would be great. (Not to mention a complete waste of time)

[IBdmfkr]

US gonna check out that Paleo Diet book and see what it's all about, seems like a very interesting concept which makes perfect sense.

[usualsuspect]

US gonna check out that Paleo Diet book and see what it's all about, seems like a very interesting concept which makes perfect sense.

Yeah IB, the "Paleo diet" is IMO incredible. "The Zone" books are important, "Natural Hormonal Enhancement" is excellent; another great read is "Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar and Survival."

I usually buy my books used at Amazon for a fraction of the newstand price. Not only that but I'd rather give my business to the small mom and pop bookstores than the Borders and Barnes N Noble goliaths.

~US~

[Giants11]

Please explain what are the repercussions when somebody consumes dextrose in high amounts and spikes insulin

Spiking your insulin is NEVER a good thing. I'm not sure how that isn't obvious.

[IBdmfkr]

Yeah IB, the "Paleo diet" is IMO incredible. "The Zone" books are important, "Natural Hormonal Enhancement" is excellent; another great read is "Lights Out: Sleep, Sugar and Survival."

I usually buy my books used at Amazon for a fraction of the newstand price. Not only that but I'd rather give my business to the small mom and pop bookstores than the Borders and Barnes N Noble goliaths.

~US~

Thanks for the reads, always like seeing new concepts and ideas..
I'll have to check those out. Did you like the book, "Paleo diet for athletes"?

[rake922]

Spiking your insulin is NEVER a good thing. I'm not sure how that isn't obvious.

It's not obvious since many articles claim high amounts of dextrose is great after a workout..........

And since you didn't share why it was never a good thing, we won't know the repercussions.

[Giants11]

It's not obvious since many articles claim high amounts of dextrose is great after a workout..........

And since you didn't share why it was never a good thing, we won't know the repercussions.

Show me the articles please, as I have many to that say insulin is not anabolic within physiological ranges.

Let's see what dose spikin insulin lead too, I'll name two main factors right now:

Overworked Pancreas.
Raised LPL levels.

Now if you can't see that consuking whole grains over processed sugar is better for you than I simply don't think we can have a debate here. Fact of the matter is the human body is was not meant to handle the fast acting sugars that you see today. It was meant to process wholesome grains, meats and vegetables.

In no way should slamming down 80g of dextrose be considered healthy.

Granted weight lifting an a bodybuilding lifestyle promote insulin sensitivty, but it should just be obvious to most that putting that much strain on your pancreas is not a good thing.

Like I said show me your literature about how its a good thing then we'll talk.

[Hackamaniac]

So you aren't a fan of dex Giantz???I thought you were..

[Columbus]

I agree with the above....dex at that amount CANT be good for you and is def. hell on your teeth....

Seriously, I do a thick whey shake...then I get some of those new rice cakes and a huge bowl of cold cereal (orgainic, but like the cheerios) so Im gettn in a decent insulin push, just not the crash like from dex...try it....it's worth it.

After reading a couple posts regarding paleo diets i decided to switch to a semi paleo (modelled after one i saw in a post by johan a week or two ago). anyways, my pwo is whey and banana/blueberries and while this is far to short a time to notice anything in regards to strength gains, i FEEL better after taking it. I don't have the crash i'd always get with dex, even if i ate a half hour after my shake, i'd crash horribly. In addition, i feel better all day long. I have more energy and better concentration eating this way. I'll never switch back.

YIKES,....I couldnt do it...no yams, no pasta, no peanuts, no whey.....NO OATS!!! My diet would be None Existent!

[Columbus]

[rake922]

More to come later..

Insulin is a hormone that is made in the pancreas. Insulin's job is to keep blood sugar levels from rising too high. When you intake a carbohydrate (let's say grape juice, for example), your body releases insulin to regulate your blood sugar levels. The body is constantly trying to maintain homeostasis, or internal equilibrium.

Therefore, it does not let its blood sugar levels drop too low or become to high. The glucose is transported to muscle tissue and fat cells, lowering blood sugar levels. This is where insulin becomes very important to bodybuilders. Insulin is very anabolic because it increases the body's ability to uptake amino acids. It is believed that the best times to create an insulin spike is when you wake up and after a workout.

This is because your insulin sensitivity is highest at these times. To create an insulin spike, a food with a high GI rating is needed. An example of this would be honey. Eating honey, along with your protein shake, will cause an insulin spike and bring glucose to your muscles and increase your amino acid uptake.

Insulin has also been shown to stop protein breakdown after a workout. So insulin replenishes glycogen storage, increases amino acid uptake, and stops protein breakdown

However - insulin also has a downside. Insulin also plays a role in storing fat. When insulin is released, it causes the liver to store glucose as glycogen.

This is fine when your liver needs its glycogen level replenished, such as after a workout. If the liver is saturated (or already full) of glycogen, however, any extra glucose will be transported to fat cells.

[Giants11]

Where are the reference's? This is far from anything scientific.


Where does it indicate how much insulin ??

I never said insulin PWO was bad, just that there is no need to spike it.

Please provide som reading that have cited references. Also if you are going to send me a Berardi article, save your time, his references are out of date and he pushes Biotest Surge.

[Giants11]

This is because your insulin sensitivity is highest at these times. To create an insulin spike, a food with a high GI rating is needed. An example of this would be honey. Eating honey, along with your protein shake, will cause an insulin spike and bring glucose to your muscles and increase your amino acid uptake

Also tell me how this makes sense.

"This is because your insulin sensitivity is highest "

"To create an insulin spike, a food with a high GI rating is needed."

So insulin sensitivty is at its highest point PWO, but you now you need to spike it??

Please explain the rational behind that?

[Chad B]

I was downing a s*** load of dextrose after my work out. In the back of my head I said "all this sugar can't be good for me," my body also telling me it is not good for me because it made me feel like crap. I just told myself if it is going to help me grow than it is good. Boy am I happy with this new light on the subject, now I don't need to fight my conscience and I don't need to feel like s*** after a good workout, when I should feel good!

It is just plain common sense…40-80 grams of pure sugar…what in the hell were we thinking!!

[rake922]

I was downing a s*** load of dextrose after my work out. In the back of my head I said "all this sugar can't be good for me," my body also telling me it is not good for me because it made me feel like crap. I just told myself if it is going to help me grow than it is good. Boy am I happy with this new light on the subject, now I don't need to fight my conscience and I don't need to feel like s*** after a good workout, when I should feel good!

It is just plain common sense…40-80 grams of pure sugar…what in the hell were we thinking!!

Is it abnormal to drink 20oz of soda? look how much sugar is in that

[usualsuspect]

Is it abnormal to drink 20oz of soda? look how much sugar is in that

Extremely!

[Chad B]

Is it abnormal to drink 20oz of soda? look how much sugar is in that

Is it abnormal to be fit? Is it abnormal to be overweight?

When I go out in public people who look fit stick out like sore thumbs because there is 50 fat people surrounding him. Being overweight is the normal so drinking soda is the normal too.

Yes I think it is very abnormal for a bb to be drinking NONdiet soda daily.

[Giants11]

Is it abnormal to drink 20oz of soda? look how much sugar is in that

Yes quite frankly it is.

Look at why America is full of Diabetics and obese people.

[Chad B]

[zodiac666]

Yes quite frankly it is.

Look at why America is full of Diabetics and obese people.

i am just interested in what the best nutrients to have PWO are. as you know there have been an insane amount of articles over the years that told people to spike their insulin PWO. it does help replentish glycogen faster and some articles say that it does increase protein synthesis. all of these articles are probably the main reason why so many people spike their insulin.

i really dont know what the best way is, i go with dex because all the articles i have read in the past have said to spike your insulin PWO. if you have scientific articles that prove that another way is more benificial for bodybuilders PLEASE POST THEM. i cant go by word of mouth, i need to see studies that show why one way is better than another.