calories

[Manpretty]

ok so im a super hard gainer, i really dont know what is up with my metabolism... anywho heres the question, does it matter where my cal's come from or is a calorie a calorie. i eat pretty clean and get about 4500cal/day but i could be getting more and more easliy if i ate a less clean diet. and yes i realize that my ratio of carb/protien/fats still has to be in order. and right now im bulking so extra fat is fine......ive never been above ~11%bf no matter what i ate. basically i wanna know if eating high calorie foods like pizza or milkshakes will help with weight gain?

i will post my diet if nessary im 160 5'8 would like to gain another 10 pounds so i can cut back to 150-155 and look shreaded.

ps i was cut at 138 this summer from 150 last winter

[hawktribal]

essentially a calorie is a calorie yes. if you're eating 4500 calories of shit a day you're going to gain weight. it may not be good weight, but you'll still add extra pounds. that being said, we are all different here. you may be able to get away eating junk and still mainitaining a low body fat. i've got a friend who eats nothing but garbage all day long and looks great. can i do that? hell no, but experiment a little and see what works for you.

[Manpretty]

so basicly i would be able to maintain / add calories relatively easily just by the type of food im eating and put on about the same amount of muscle as a clean diet @ the same caloric intake, the only difference being the possible extra fat added?

[wolfstrike]

What I would do is keep fat constant and protein constant.Try for 75gms fat and 250gms protein.Increase carb calories.

With this strategy you have the added benefit of adding fat free sugar loaded snacks in between meals to meet your calorie quota.(healthy like low-fat granola bars)The higher insulin from the sugary foods will allow you to eat more.And as long as its "clean" carbs you should be alright.

Now start adding in pizza and donuts and your fat intake will skyrocket.

[*Narkissos*]

Outline your 'bulking diet'

[bigsd67]

I usually find that most people aren't really getting as many calories as they think. I've had clients tell me they eat everything all day and not gain a pound. Then I put them on a 3000 calorie clean food "bulk" and they gain 1-2lbs per week. When you average out your calories per day see if it really does add up. Use a scale and measuring cup to be sure for a week and then see what happens.

[Manpretty]

ok...heres a rough idea...somedays ill get less somedays ill get more....

meal 1 (9am): bowl of oatmeal and i drink 100ml egg whites thats about 15g protien

meal 2 (1030am): muscle juice shake 1300 cals with 60g protien

meal 3 (12noon): subway sub ~1000cals depending on the kind of sub, whey protien shake 30g

meal 4 (2pm): nuts 1/2 cup to a cup (peanuts/almonds) glass of 2% milk

meal 5 (6pm): pasta or chicken or hamburger or steak or fish with veg and a carb source if not pasta

meal 6 (9pm): post workout shake muscle juice 1300 cals 60g protien

meal 7 (11pm): whey 60g protien with juice and maybe some toast

i think thats like 4500 cals with like 250g protien
the time between meals at the end of the day gets longer because i dont feel as hungery
manpretty

[Manpretty]

ps with this diet im still under 10%bf
any comments would be greatly appreciated

[audis4]

I like meals 1 and 5

[*Narkissos*]

ok...heres a rough idea...somedays ill get less somedays ill get more....

meal 1 (9am): bowl of oatmeal and i drink 100ml egg whites thats about 15g protien

meal 2 (1030am): muscle juice shake 1300 cals with 60g protien

meal 3 (12noon): subway sub ~1000cals depending on the kind of sub, whey protien shake 30g

meal 4 (2pm): nuts 1/2 cup to a cup (peanuts/almonds) glass of 2% milk

meal 5 (6pm): pasta or chicken or hamburger or steak or fish with veg and a carb source if not pasta

meal 6 (9pm): post workout shake muscle juice 1300 cals 60g protien

meal 7 (11pm): whey 60g protien with juice and maybe some toast

i think thats like 4500 cals with like 250g protien
the time between meals at the end of the day gets longer because i dont feel as hungery
manpretty

You've followed this diet daily (consistently) for how long?

[Manpretty]

goin on 4 months now ive gained 22 pounds since summer....made great gains so far just slowing down now.....do i need more food because im bigger now? or is 4500 enough for me to grow?

audis4 "I like meals 1 and 5"

do you think 2-4 and 6&7 need an ajustment?

remember i dont need to eat as clean as most people...i dont put on fat easily

[audis4]

ok...heres a rough idea...somedays ill get less somedays ill get more....

meal 1 (9am): bowl of oatmeal and i drink 100ml egg whites thats about 15g protien
Not sure what your overall protein intake looks like 15g is pretty weak.
meal 2 (1030am): muscle juice shake 1300 cals with 60g protien
Replace muslce juice with whole foods....1300 cals in one meal is WAY overkill!!
meal 3 (12noon): subway sub ~1000cals depending on the kind of sub, whey protien shake 30g
Make your own sandwich with whole wheat bread
meal 4 (2pm): nuts 1/2 cup to a cup (peanuts/almonds) glass of 2% milk
Where is your protein?
meal 5 (6pm): pasta or chicken or hamburger or steak or fish with veg and a carb source if not pasta

meal 6 (9pm): post workout shake muscle juice 1300 cals 60g protien
again, just do something like 2 scoops whey and 1 cup oats.
meal 7 (11pm): whey 60g protien with juice and maybe some toast
your PPWO meal needs to come from whole foods. pro/carb is best IMO
i think thats like 4500 cals with like 250g protien
the time between meals at the end of the day gets longer because i dont feel as hungery
manpretty

see above in bold. Please post macros for each meal and final macros for the day.

[Manpretty]

macros? im unsure of what that is........

why do whole food tend to be better for you?

i feel like it would be hard for me to eat that 2600cal in whole foods ....i could split those shakes up in to 600 cal shakes and have 4 a day

[JohnboyF]

macros? im unsure of what that is........

why do whole food tend to be better for you?

i feel like it would be hard for me to eat that 2600cal in whole foods ....i could split those shakes up in to 600 cal shakes and have 4 a day

Macro's refer to Cals, Pro,Carb,fat per meal...

So go to www.fitday.com and type in ur food choices there to get macros...

Whole foods are best because they keep you fuller longer take longer to digest.

2600 cals from shakes are useless.. muscle juice info ( 60 grams of sugar)
Calories 1021
-Calories from Fat 153
Total Fat 17g 26%
-Saturated Fat 17g 85%
Cholesterol 77mg 26%
Sodium 108mg 5%
Potassium 365mg 10%
Total Carbs 162g 54%
-Dietary Fiber 0g
-Sugars 60g
Protein 55g 110%
Vitamin A 47IU 1%
Calcium 358mg 36%
Iron 1.5mg 8%

[IBdmfkr]

I could drink 8000 calories/day and not grow yet if I ate 3500 I'd steadily grow muscle.

I'd scratch that diet and take a better approach. If you don't know what a macronutrient is how did you come up with 4500 calories?

[Columbus]

[QUOTE=I**mfkr]I could drink 8000 calories/day and not grow QUOTE]
confused!

[Manpretty]

I could drink 8000 calories/day and not grow yet if I ate 3500 I'd steadily grow muscle.

I'd scratch that diet and take a better approach. If you don't know what a macronutrient is how did you come up with 4500 calories?

i know how to count calories just didnt know the word for it........and yes this is my exact question.......is there a difference between the calories from a shake per say, compared to a meal with the exact same ratio of carbs/fats/protien and the same total amount of cal's

and if so....why?

[IBdmfkr]

There is a difference in the quality of the Protein/carb etc IMO.
I wouldn't build muscle off of drinking an abundance of calories as opposed to eating real whole foods throughout the day, I've tried it. Not to mention I stay leaner when I eat foods because it keeps the metabolism going much better throughout the day. Your intestines don't have to work much to break down a synthetic meal.

[Manpretty]

the reason i ask is that i could take in 7000-8000 cal's if i were to eat crappier foods...REMEMBER I FIND IT VERY HARD TO PUT ON FAT...the idea of taking in more calories than your bmr is so you can grow.....but is more better? i mean is there a point at which you stop using the calories that you in take and just Siht them out?

[Manpretty]

Your intestines don't have to work much to break down a synthetic meal.

nice this is what i wanted to know

[Columbus]

If its hard for u to put on fat, why not just chow? get your protein in, make it clean, and then whatever else floats you, do it up

[IBdmfkr]

Or why not eat calories that your body can actually utilize for muscle repair/growth.

That's like a skinny kid eating 300g protein/day and then eating all fast food, not a good suggestion.

Manpretty: Just be patient, do it the right way and eat approx 3500-4000calories/day whole foods and lifts 3-4times/wk and you'll see the growth, muscle takes a long time to develop unlike fat which comes on very fast so just give it 6months and watch the changes take place. Good thing to do is to take before/after pics or measurements of your progression.

[Chemical King]

Manpretty =This aint a flame, but take a look at the stickys in the diet and workouts forum and you should be able to sort your diet out. Like the dude said before, whole foods are better than shakes but if your not used to such a large intake of foods yet then IMO shakes are better than not at all just be sure not to rely on them and phase them out gradualy replaceing them with whole foods

For me, I only consume a shake with my breakfast, PWO, and before bed

[Manpretty]

Manpretty =This aint a flame, but take a look at the stickys in the diet and workouts forum and you should be able to sort your diet out.

yeah yeah i really did know eating whole food was better just needed and explaination as to why .....guess i was hopin to "cheat" at getting bigger/stronger. but phasing them out does seem like a good idea!

[Manpretty]

lifts 3-4times/wk Good thing to do is to take before/after pics or measurements of your progression.

3-4days a week? i do a 5 day split is this too much IYO?

and i actually have measurments that go back three years.....ave growth is bis/tris 1/4" to 1/2" a year quads/hams ~1/2" chest 1/2" waist is the same

[IBdmfkr]

That's good progress. 5days isn't too much depending on how you have it split and your intensity, there is noway I could lift 5days/wk. I only did 2days last week because I did Legs and Deadlifts for back. This week will be 4days. Too many things to consider, one isn't better than another depends on your program etc.

[Manpretty]

yeah i do one muscle a day something like this....chest, legs, bi's, tri's, shoulders, back repeat with the fifth day being rest meaning that i cycle through my rest day so that im not always getting my rest day before one specific workout

[zodiac666]

i would almost always reccomend whole foods over shakes but you can buy shakes that have slow digesting carbs and slow digesting protein. i mean you can throw a can of tuna, scoop of oatmeal, and some water in a blender and you have a slow digesting (shitty tasting) shake.

some people claim that shakes are worthless, these people are probably just repeating what other people have said and have never actually tried them. some jobs will require you to drink shakes if you want to get your calories in. and trust me, you can make excellent gains even consuming 3-4 shakes in replacement of meals each day although i wouldnt reccomend this if there is another way around it. im sure even most pro's consume a few shakes each day to supplement their meals. of course you really do want to stay away from weight gainers that are loaded with sugar and unhealthy fat.

most people's argument for being against shakes is that your body processes them too fast, but not all shakes are processed fast so dont be afraid to add some slow digesting shakes to your diet as long as they fit in with your target macros.

[IBdmfkr]

Your body also doesn't have to work very hard to digest them whether they have slower digesting carbs/protein or not.

And yes I've tried both and since switching to 95% whole foods my body has taken a harder/denser look and I've made much more quality gains.

Supplements do have their place in a diet IMO but they are just that "supplements". Shouldn't be the foundation of the daily caloric intake. Another problem is these supplement aren't regulated so what's said to be in the ingredients may not in fact be the case.

[zodiac666]

Your body also doesn't have to work very hard to digest them whether they have slower digesting carbs/protein or not.

And yes I've tried both and since switching to 95% whole foods my body has taken a harder/denser look and I've made much more quality gains.

Supplements do have their place in a diet IMO but they are just that "supplements". Shouldn't be the foundation of the daily caloric intake.

so if i blend tuna and oatmeal up it is somehow a lot different than if i just chew it? i mean different MRP's use different forms of carbs and protein, is it just because it is in small particles that you dont work hard to digest it? i would think the difference between chewing and grinding would be very small.

[IBdmfkr]

There is a difference which is explained in a few other threads. More surface area of the ground food raises the GI, blending and chewing are completely different (chewing is the start of the digestive process in which saliva comes into play). You probably wouldn't notice much of a difference by doing so IMO but it's better to cook your oats than to blend/drink them. Same as how juicers affect vegetables/fruits on the cellular level.

[trainfreak]

aim for 500 grams of protein a day mate, im a hard gainer just like you 6ft 3 and 160 pounds. i eat every hour and a half. dont worry TO much about clean food when bulking especially if your an ectomorph like me. just make sure you eat eat lots of greens and fruit aswell. i dont get to keen on balancing things out and it works great. ive gained 9 pounds in 2 weeks, just eat everything and you will grow. make sure you take atleast 50 grams casein before bed aswell. good luck

[IBdmfkr]

lol 500g Protein/day? Really isn't necessary. Try upping your carbs a bit.

Also 9lbs in 2wks, must be muscle At this rate you'll be Ronnie Coleman in no time.

[Columbus]

lol 500g Protein/day? Really isn't necessary. Try upping your carbs a bit.

Also 9lbs in 2wks, must be muscle At this rate you'll be Ronnie Coleman in no time.

[bigsd67]

I gained 9lbs in two days post contest once....chocolate, cookies, pancakes all worked wonders for me.

[theboss]

so if i blend tuna and oatmeal up it is somehow a lot different than if i just chew it? i mean different MRP's use different forms of carbs and protein, is it just because it is in small particles that you dont work hard to digest it? i would think the difference between chewing and grinding would be very small.

interesting....cause i make shakes too thinking they were good...
2 scoops whey
1 scoop skim milk powder
500ml egg whites
1 cup oats

so this is not as good as if i ate the oats and cooked the eggs ?

[trainfreak]

shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[IBdmfkr]

interesting....cause i make shakes too thinking they were good...
2 scoops whey
1 scoop skim milk powder
500ml egg whites
1 cup oats

so this is not as good as if i ate the oats and cooked the eggs ?

Nobody I know that competes or has an outstanding build drinks shakes.

Everyone I know that isn't these things does drink shakes.. Not sure if it's just coincidence or what but I'd deem to say solid food is better than shakes.

Possibly it's because shakes are so easy and convienent these ppl are probably half-assing the rest of their meals as well? I don't know but since I dropped protein powders from being a regular part of my diet my body has deff taken a turn for the better.

[Superhuman]

if you are truly a HARDGAINER then you just need to eat ALOT. I've always had an extremely high metabolism and I weighed 140lbs when I started training. The only way I ended up gaining weight was eating at an all-u-can-eat buffet 3 times a day and gorging myself. In addition to that
I would down weightgaining shakes and I would set my alarm to wake up in the middle of the night to eat peanut butter, jelly, and honey sandwiches. I gained 80lbs in roughly 6 months that wasy. Sure, I gained a lot of fat too but it didn't take long to cut it away.

My football coach told me back in high school, "To get big, you gotta eat like a horse and shit like a bird!" lol

EAT EAT EAT that's all you need!

[IBdmfkr]

wow 80lbs in 6months.. How much of that do you think was muscle?
It took me 7years to gain 80lbs and my BF never went over 12%.
I started at 130lbs and I'm currently a bit over 220 still sub 12%.