Bulking?

[MsFit]

My fella just finished competing a few months ago. He competed at about 165# and 5%, he claims. Abs weren't too visible. He's bulked to 180# and says he's 10%. How is that possible? Is he reading the calipers backwards. I can pinch him and tell that he's more than 10%.

He want's to add another 5 - 10 pounds, then start cutting. Why get big then lose weight? Gaining that amount in a short period is mostly water and fat. Why force yourself to gain more since when you diet down you lose muscle along with fat. Wouldn't the logical thing to do is to add weight slowly to ensure that most of it is muscle, just as dieting slowly to ensure that it's mostly fat loss.

Please note that I'm not questioning perse, I want a guys perspective.
MsFit

[kizer_soce]

Okay again I agree with you. I don't believe in bulking and cutting anymore. I am around 10% and I stay here about year round little less for summer little more for winter. Even when cycling I dont' try to blow up. I am only concerned with lean mass gains. I think it is too hard on one's body to gain and drop weight rapidly. Like I said in the other thread I keep calories high and when the weight gain starts hitting the wrong areas I just up the cardio to keep the fat off. I am a HUGE advocate of not starving the body. Like I said high cals and high amounts of exercise are optimal.

[Improving]

I agree with you both. I am still deathly afraid of "losing my abs". Guess it has a lot to do with the fact that I was quite the fatass as a younger man, and it took so much to get lean. This probably has a bit to do with why I have such a hard time gaining lean mass as well, but I would rather gain slowly than get fat again.

Thought I would share,

Improving

[MarkyMark]

BUMP .... BULKING is definately out for those that have tried the whole gammit of this theory ... put on 60 lbs ...diet and lose 59lbs ..... on and on ....

Stay fairly lean as best you can ... You will tack on some body fat during a gain .... but tracking your gain, while staying fairly lean will allow you to ensure proper calories without just plain overeating and gaining to much fat, which in itself is very hard on the system and has MANY setbacks ...
Too much to say and too lil time ... if this hasn't been exausted by my next visit I will continue ,... Hehe ..

good luck

[xenithon]

hi there,

i agree with all - stay lean as best you can! i have seen so many people gain 30lbs on a bulking cycle, lose about 8lbs cause of water and crap like that, then say they now gonna cut. problem is they NEVER get to loose all the fat they put on - a real shame and a real waste. i say if you are keeping a good diet for the cycle you may put on a BIT of fat - but I always say that's not too bad cause u can get rid of that after easy with some clen/eca, and it also shows your body is 'saturated' so to speak, ensuring you're getting the neccessary calories to grow. After all, you dont wanna do a cycle and end up loosing mass

[dumbells101]

I think now most people realize that the whole bulking/cutting thing is taboo. However there is a fine line between staying lean and trying to gain lean mass. You obviously need the nutrients to feed the cells for growth, but how much really depends on what you're training, the intensity, how heavy you're training, the volume of training, your genetic structure as well as how old you are. You can increase your calories more on quad/ham training days since they require more energy overall then say bic/tri days. If you're sleeping enough then you're giving the body enough time to heal and use the nutrients. It is important to know that the average person who trains real hard may only gain 5 lbs of solid muscle in a YEAR. Bottom line is know yourself, and work within your limits. Continually push the envelope until you find what works.

[MarkyMark]

Along those lines DB ....... I also find that your body chemically cannot grow year long .... These year long gains are really pointless .... I would rather cycle my year in several structured diets allowing enough change to encourage growth at selected and preplanned times. Something like 12 week gain ...8 week maintenance ... 8-10 week gain ... 8-12 lean out ....12 week gain ... this scenario is just an example of how it can work ... but along these lines you can see that the body is in an ever changing program .. not allowing your body to stagnate and adapt to the ongoing same ole same ole ..... keep this in mind if your 6' 250 and have been trying to gain still after 2-3 years ... I have came across this numerous times.... Your body may need to go thru a serious dieting program and renew it for growth later ... Plus getting considerably more lean than you ever been B4 you may see that your body has completely changed its shape and form than you may have ever thought possible ...
good luck ...I hope we helped

[Billy Boy]

Bulking up and then cutting does appear to be a waste of time.i,m currently on a bulking cycle and my b/f is around 12%.When you are adding weight you will not be so lean.Personally I would prefer to remain leanish throughout the year.It is possible to add weight slowly and still keep keep lean but this weight increase will have to be very slow.He should be able to put a lb on a month and still remain lean.If it is sudden increases he wants it will be fat and water.

[MsFit]

Originally posted by Billy Boy
He should be able to put a lb on a month and still remain lean.

So BillyBoy, are you saying that adding 12#'s of muscle a year is attainable?
MsFit

[Pete235]

IMO...12lbs per year "naturally" would be a tough go unless you were between 17-22yrs old. I think a natural athlete could, concievably put on 5-7lbs of muscle in a year if all the factors were in place, but I also think genetics, height and body type would come into play as well. Also, 5lbs of muscle would look much better on an athlete who stood 5'6" than it would on an athlete who stood 6'2". Genetics also dictates how much muscle an individual can gain over a period of time. Lets face it, if Flex Wheeler never used he would still look better than most of us, but I'm getting off topic. I guess I'm saying there are variables that make it differen't from individual to individual.

[MsFit]

Thanks for the input fellas. I'm trying to get my boyfriend out of the 20th Century and the 80's why of dieting and training. He thinks he's going to gain 10#'s of muscle in the next few months then cut down to 8% for pictures, all within a six month time span. Makes no sense to me.

I know in the 80's competitors ate babyfood prior to competing, just as my fella does. What was the point in this? Isn't is high in sugar and sodium?
MsFit

[dumbells101]

10 lbs of muscle in a few months is certainly possible with just about any cycle, but for a natural BB, unless coming off an injury and losing a boat load of muscle, I don't see it possible.

I have seen first time trainees make that kind of progress but that's because when a new person first starts a good exercise and nutrition program their body goes crazy and really thrives for a while.

[MsFit]

One again, you have stated what I've been telling him. He is natural and been training for 15 years. I try telling him that the BFL contestants made remarkable progress because they were in a vegetated state for years and they finally got off thier butts and ate right and worked out. That's how they made such remarkable progress. BFL will not work for me nor him as we are both veterans of the sport.
MsFit

[dumbells101]

That's correct MsFit!

[MarkyMark]

Good job DB ... Ms Fit , I have a hard time thinking if this guy has worked out for 15 years natural he would have such expectations.... He really needs to check over his training journal and see when he was in his late teens if that was possible ... With all my clients , they have unbelievable expectations of how ( EASY ) getting a body like ( Mel Gibson ) in a couple months... they may have absolutely NO muscular development to start with and be about 25-30% Bf .... I tell them ( pull up them sleeves cause we're getting busy for a long while .) I don't feel some of these trainers are upfront with their clients ... Its not a money issue for me .. I want serious people or stay home ... Good luck with opening his mind to reason .... Or I guess ALL of us here really don't know JACK SQUAT .......

[MarkyMark]

Oh and the Baby food idea ..... Hmmm ... Back in the day of Carb deprivation this may have been a serious program BONUS .... but since then DIETING has become SO state of the art , that the old mentality of carbo loading had to be modified .... He may be old school , But even these old competitors realize that dieting has came leaps and bounds from their previous thinking ...good luck

[MsFit]

I need to clarify myself. He has been natural now for several years. I've known him doing a few cycles of test in the past. Personally I didn't see much change in him, maybe thicking up a little, but it was all gone after he stopped. He fats (bulks) up to 180# and then tries to lean up for a show, down to 165#. Yes, it's possible for the "supplementing" athelete, but being natural his body will hold more and more fat each time he does his "fat phase", better known as bulking phase. IT IRRITATES ME TO NO END! I wish he's listen to me, but I guess being a petty female, I know nothing.
MsFit

[MsFit]

Originally posted by MarkyMark
Oh and the Baby food idea ..... Hmmm ... Back in the day of Carb deprivation this may have been a serious program BONUS .... but since then DIETING has become SO state of the art , that the old mentality of carbo loading had to be modified .... He may be old school , But even these old competitors realize that dieting has came leaps and bounds from their previous thinking ...good luck

Thanks, I need to print this thread and give it to him, but he still won't listen. He'll try another 'fad bulking diet' with added babyfood.
MsFit

[MarkyMark]

Tell him to attend (Natural Muscle MANIA ) in Las Vegas... I have a client entering and I can say if he doesnt win I will be suprised ... He might then want to talk to several competitors and then maybe he might change his thinking ..... Seeing is believing ...good luck Ms Fit ,,,, sound like your work is cut out for you ....

How bout you get shredded and show him up .... hehe