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Thread: Cardio more effective right BEFORE a workout or AFTER?!

  1. #1
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    Cardio more effective right BEFORE a workout or AFTER?!

    i hate the treadmills, the ski things, the bicycle and all those machines for cardio at the gym, in my PERSONAL experience, nothing and i mean NOTHING beats and shows more results quicker and better than a good old fashioned run around the park or running around the block 8-10 times!

    but now here is my questions.....

    i know its good to warm up before you workout, not too much though for reasons that are stated in my health book that i cant seem to find at the moment, so i was wondering

    what do you guys recommend or prefer or think its better?

    doing some warmup cardio befofre hittin the weight? you know, run a quick 3-4laps around the block before goin into the gym

    or do yo uthink dont do cardio, jus go straight to the gym and AFTER the gym run your 3-4laps and it will be much better for you!!

    what do you guys recommend?

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    i highly suggest doing cardio first thing in the mourning on a empty stomach... but if you have to do it when you work out ... do it after you work out ... that way your lifts use carbs and cardio will burn fat .... good luck...

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    ok ok so dont bother doing some warm up cardio before my workout?

    i always did have a feeling after a workout would be better, but its kinda hard for me to do cardio before i lift seein as how i just drank like a tall glass of protein shake with oatmeal (raw in a blender)

    and the morning cardio is tough for me now

    i have to be up at 5am if i want to get it done, but next week i will change all that and get back in my routine

    thanks!!


    PS - how long should i do cardio after my workout? a good 10-15min? or a good 20-25min?

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    ok ok so dont bother doing some warm up cardio before my workout?

    i always did have a feeling after a workout would be better, but its kinda hard for me to do cardio before i lift seein as how i just drank like a tall glass of protein shake with oatmeal (raw in a blender)

    and the morning cardio is tough for me now

    i have to be up at 5am if i want to get it done, but next week i will change all that and get back in my routine

    thanks!!


    PS - how long should i do cardio after my workout? a good 10-15min? or a good 20-25min?

  5. #5
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    because I am engaged in "training under stress" workout, I usually do cardio before lifting, but my cardio is not long ,10 to 12 min at a 12km/h speed.

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    thanks!! ill do that!! BUT!! after my workout

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    Due to the sugars used during cardio versus anaerobic activity, you should ALWAYS do cardio AFTER lifting if you cant' do it separately in the morning,

    doing aerobic activity BEFORE working out with weights, will decrease the intensity of your lifts

    doing warmup cardio for 5 min is fine

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    SMAN

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    Doing cardio after weight training stems from the age old idea that depleting all glycogen stores with your weight training makes it much easier to burn fat during cardio aferwards.

    It worked then, it will work now.
    ***No source checks!!!***

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMAN12b
    Due to the sugars used during cardio versus anaerobic activity, you should ALWAYS do cardio AFTER lifting if you cant' do it separately in the morning,

    doing aerobic activity BEFORE working out with weights, will decrease the intensity of your lifts

    doing warmup cardio for 5 min is fine
    but I think with time he will build adaptation to lifting heavy weights even when he is tired and out of breath thats what happened with me, sometime training to be tough can be at the expense of strength this is on the short run but on the long run the controlled fatigue training will bay back and he will adapt to long period of intense training without reaching failure.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by biodiversity
    but I think with time he will build adaptation to lifting heavy weights even when he is tired and out of breath thats what happened with me, sometime training to be tough can be at the expense of strength this is on the short run but on the long run the controlled fatigue training will bay back and he will adapt to long period of intense training without reaching failure.

    yeah, thats fine, BUT it still has to do with the way the body uses sugars for anaerobic VS aerobic activity to best burn calories !!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by biodiversity
    but I think with time he will build adaptation to lifting heavy weights even when he is tired and out of breath thats what happened with me, sometime training to be tough can be at the expense of strength this is on the short run but on the long run the controlled fatigue training will bay back and he will adapt to long period of intense training without reaching failure.

    cardio before lifting is a huge no no no matter how you rationalization it to yourself.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by muriloninja
    Doing cardio after weight training stems from the age old idea that depleting all glycogen stores with your weight training makes it much easier to burn fat during cardio aferwards.

    It worked then, it will work now.

    Especially if you are actually in a deficit

  14. #14
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    if a few minutes warms you up then that's fine. but you will lose fat if you do your cardio PWO. do it at a very moderate intensity just to keep your heart rate at about 60% of your max to ensure that you don't tap into those already starving muscles. in my experience doing cardio at 70% of your hax is too much. some will say its fine but i avoid it, stay low and burn the fat and keep your gains. 20 minutes will do the trick in a depleted state.

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    all these posts are worth GOLD !!!

    GOD BLESS EVERYONE !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by muriloninja
    Doing cardio after weight training stems from the age old idea that depleting all glycogen stores with your weight training makes it much easier to burn fat during cardio aferwards.

    It worked then, it will work now.
    Bout sums it up for me.
    Well said.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by timtim
    cardio before lifting is a huge no no no matter how you rationalization it to yourself.
    nothing is "no no" in the fitness arena because everyone have his own goals not everyone want to be big or strong or lean or fast ect... !

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by biodiversity
    nothing is "no no" in the fitness arena because everyone have his own goals not everyone want to be big or strong or lean or fast ect... !

    you want to be bigger? stronger? faster? than cardio before training is a no no.

  19. #19
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    it has been documented that to burn fat cardio after weight training is the best route. however, many athletes have had more success with muscular endurance and power after a cardio session of roughly 15 minutes. its all about what kind of training you do and whether its maximum effort or maximum dependency.
    for anyone trying to add mass while staying lean or getting lean in general, the rule remains weights then cardio.

  20. #20
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    cardio after weights for many reasons, my new favorite reason is IT WORKD FOR ME LIKE NOTHING ELSE also you get a better natural Gh response.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BITTAPART2
    cardio after weights for many reasons, my new favorite reason is IT WORKD FOR ME LIKE NOTHING ELSE also you get a better natural Gh response.
    damn. i forgot about that dern GH response. great add Bitta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by novastepp
    it has been documented that to burn fat cardio after weight training is the best route. however, many athletes have had more success with muscular endurance and power after a cardio session of roughly 15 minutes. its all about what kind of training you do and whether its maximum effort or maximum dependency.
    for anyone trying to add mass while staying lean or getting lean in general, the rule remains weights then cardio.
    Spot on.

    10-15 minutes of cardio BEFORE lifting weights usually gives me a better workout. 20-45 minutes of cardio AFTER lifting leads to much better fat loss (for me.)

  23. #23
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    This forum is awesome!

    I've learned more about diet and exercise on this forum than I ever have.

    Thanks

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    this issue confuses me as well... here's my concern: they say to burn fat you should do 45 minutes of cardio because you dont start burning fat until after 20 minutes... but if i do that than i cant have my shake with protein and dextrose/maltodextrin within 15 minutes after my workout... if i have the shake first than im not doing my cardio on an empty stomach..

    any thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TODouble2 View Post
    this issue confuses me as well... here's my concern: they say to burn fat you should do 45 minutes of cardio because you dont start burning fat until after 20 minutes... but if i do that than i cant have my shake with protein and dextrose/maltodextrin within 15 minutes after my workout... if i have the shake first than im not doing my cardio on an empty stomach..

    any thoughts?
    If you mean 45 minutes of cardio after your weight training, that's too much. Just do 10-20 minutes, cause your glycogen stores will already be depleted from your lifting, and that initial 20 minutes won't apply. Therefore do 10-20 minutes of cardio after you train, and then drink your shake.

    Also, if you do cardio in the morning upon waking... I'd recommend drinking a whey shake with milk/water beforehand so as to prevent catabolism, it will provide aminos straight up, plus you were already fasting for 8-12 hours. Don't intake carbs just the whey.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sizerp View Post
    If you mean 45 minutes of cardio after your weight training, that's too much. Just do 10-20 minutes, cause your glycogen stores will already be depleted from your lifting, and that initial 20 minutes won't apply. Therefore do 10-20 minutes of cardio after you train, and then drink your shake.

    Also, if you do cardio in the morning upon waking... I'd recommend drinking a whey shake with milk/water beforehand so as to prevent catabolism, it will provide aminos straight up, plus you were already fasting for 8-12 hours. Don't intake carbs just the whey.
    thats good to know... i'll just do 20 minutes or so of cardio after my workouts then drink my shake.. i dont do cardio in the morning. i get up way too early as it is.. thanks though

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sizerp View Post
    If you mean 45 minutes of cardio after your weight training, that's too much.
    Blanket statement.

    -CNS

  28. #28
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    Cardio on an empty stomach ? Might wanna thing twice about that.

    Let's take a look at the reasoning for doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach...

    1. Glycogen is depleted therefore more fat is burned - This is the major benefit people who push this method use to support their position. What they fail to realize is that anyone with weight training experience has (or should have) more muscle than is needed to sustain a healthy life. All of this extra muscle is detrimental to the survival of a human! Why? First of all, the individual body has one purpose in life. That purpose is survival. Fat is a much more efficient energy source for survival because it is not energy costly - it does not require calories to sustain. On top of this, fat is slower burning, as it is more calories dense. Therefore muscle will be burned before fat when in a state of starvation, as fat would keep you alive longer! That's the catch - just because glycogen stores are depleted that doesn't mean the body will just go straight to fat stores for its energy. How great that would be! Unfortunately, it's just not that simple. In the morning, glycogen is substantially depleted, in effect, so is ATP. If you have read some of my other articles you would know that ATP is the only source of energy for muscular contraction.

    Heavy productive weight training depletes glycogen and ATP with each contraction. ATP is not only the fuel for muscular contraction, it also plays a large role in protein synthesis and repair itself. After weight training ATP and glycogen are depleted (heavy weight training uses the anaerobic glycolysis mechanism on ATP production), and time is needed for glycogen stores to replenish. Glycogen replenishment can take up to 3 days to complete! If you deplete more glycogen than is necessary you are putting your body through unnecessary stress, which will inhibit your bodies ability to build muscle! Less ATP means less energy for proteins synthesis. It's apparent that you want to stimulate as much muscle growth as possible, with the smallest amount of glycogen and ATP depletion, which means that you should train as little as possible, while still achieving the desired results.

    So how does this matter in this situation? Cardio in the morning on an empty stomach means cardio with little glycogen, and thus little ATP. Remember that cardiovascular work requires muscle fibers to contract. Just because an activity is aerobic doesn't mean it does not require muscle fibers to perform the work. The primary source of contraction during aerobic work is the Type I muscle fibers. They are called upon during aerobic work because they have a long fatigue threshold meaning - they can maintain contraction for long periods of time. Type I fibers use the oxidative phosphorylation (Kreb's cycle and electron transport) - an aerobic mechanism for energy production. This is the method of energy production in which the body metabolizes carbohydrates and fats to produce energy. The body may also use protein when carbohydrate and/or fat energy are not available through a process called gluconeogenesis. Carbs are used primarily for this, and consequently in aerobic work. This method of energy production produces, bar far, the most amount of energy. You can literally keep going forever until you pass out with this energy system. The reason for this is because the body will catabolize itself in order to meet energy demands. You guessed it - IT WILL BREAK DOWN MUSCLE TISSUE FOR ENERGY. Don't get me wrong here, the body will also break down fat for energy. I'm sure you have been taught in high school biology that fat is the preferred energy source during aerobic exercise. This is completely true for those who do not have any "excess" muscle sitting on their bones. You see, when we weight train we create an environment in which the body is forced to synthesize new proteins in order to protect itself from future stress. This is a basic principle in weight training - super compensation and overload. Overload is the means in inducing progressive super compensation. The body will not synthesize protein it doesn't need. This matters because during aerobic exercise the body has three choices in going about meeting the energy requirements. It can...

    1. Use stored glycogen.

    2. Use stored fat.

    3. Use stored amino acids (muscle).

    When we do cardio in the morning on an empty stomach we pretty much eliminate option one. Muscle glycogen stores can never be 100% depleted, if they were we wouldn't be able to move. But, there are three places where glycogen can be found in the body (remember - we don't actually eat glycogen). The first place is in the liver, the second place is in the muscles, and the third place is in the blood stream. In the morning, after your 6-10 hours with no energy (food) liver glycogen will be just about depleted, blood glycogen will have been burned for energy, and muscle glycogen will have been severely depleted. What this means is that your body is in a state of extreme catabolism, it is literally breaking down muscle at an alarming rate. This is because when the liver runs out of glycogen it takes alanine, arginine and the other substrates, from the muscles in order to make more. This is muscle breakdown (atrophy). After waking up, you start to do activities (yes, going to the bathroom and watching TV is an "activity"). What this means is that you are increasing the bodies immediate energy requirement, which means - more muscle being broken down to meet energy needs. Then, the worst thing you can do at this time is to introduce aerobic activity. This means another increase in energy requirement, and further increase in muscle catabolism. Not a good situation to put your body in. Simply having a light meal before this activity would prevent all of this. The body would be taken out of its extremely catabolic state, it would have immediate energy other than muscle to use as fuel, and you will also have more energy to do your cardio with. More effort going into your cardio equals more benefits coming out of it.

    2. Increased metabolism for the rest of the day - This one is completely sensible. The thing is - the amount of food and the amount or glycogen you posses have no effect on this. Cardio in the morning is NOT a bad thing; cardio in the morning on an empty stomach is the bad thing. The solution to muscle catabolism? Eat before your cardio.
    That is, in a nutshell, why cardio in the morning on an empty stomach is not beneficial

    http://www.musclebomb.com/cardio_empty_stomach.html

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsm4life View Post
    cardio on an empty stomach ? Might wanna thing twice about that.

    Let's take a look at the reasoning for doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach...

    1. Glycogen is depleted therefore more fat is burned - this is the major benefit people who push this method use to support their position. What they fail to realize is that anyone with weight training experience has (or should have) more muscle than is needed to sustain a healthy life. All of this extra muscle is detrimental to the survival of a human! Why? First of all, the individual body has one purpose in life. That purpose is survival. Fat is a much more efficient energy source for survival because it is not energy costly - it does not require calories to sustain. On top of this, fat is slower burning, as it is more calories dense. Therefore muscle will be burned before fat when in a state of starvation, as fat would keep you alive longer! That's the catch - just because glycogen stores are depleted that doesn't mean the body will just go straight to fat stores for its energy. How great that would be! Unfortunately, it's just not that simple. In the morning, glycogen is substantially depleted, in effect, so is atp. If you have read some of my other articles you would know that atp is the only source of energy for muscular contraction.

    Heavy productive weight training depletes glycogen and atp with each contraction. Atp is not only the fuel for muscular contraction, it also plays a large role in protein synthesis and repair itself. After weight training atp and glycogen are depleted (heavy weight training uses the anaerobic glycolysis mechanism on atp production), and time is needed for glycogen stores to replenish. Glycogen replenishment can take up to 3 days to complete! If you deplete more glycogen than is necessary you are putting your body through unnecessary stress, which will inhibit your bodies ability to build muscle! Less atp means less energy for proteins synthesis. It's apparent that you want to stimulate as much muscle growth as possible, with the smallest amount of glycogen and atp depletion, which means that you should train as little as possible, while still achieving the desired results.

    So how does this matter in this situation? Cardio in the morning on an empty stomach means cardio with little glycogen, and thus little atp. Remember that cardiovascular work requires muscle fibers to contract. Just because an activity is aerobic doesn't mean it does not require muscle fibers to perform the work. The primary source of contraction during aerobic work is the type i muscle fibers. They are called upon during aerobic work because they have a long fatigue threshold meaning - they can maintain contraction for long periods of time. Type i fibers use the oxidative phosphorylation (kreb's cycle and electron transport) - an aerobic mechanism for energy production. This is the method of energy production in which the body metabolizes carbohydrates and fats to produce energy. The body may also use protein when carbohydrate and/or fat energy are not available through a process called gluconeogenesis. Carbs are used primarily for this, and consequently in aerobic work. This method of energy production produces, bar far, the most amount of energy. You can literally keep going forever until you pass out with this energy system. The reason for this is because the body will catabolize itself in order to meet energy demands. You guessed it - it will break down muscle tissue for energy. Don't get me wrong here, the body will also break down fat for energy. I'm sure you have been taught in high school biology that fat is the preferred energy source during aerobic exercise. This is completely true for those who do not have any "excess" muscle sitting on their bones. You see, when we weight train we create an environment in which the body is forced to synthesize new proteins in order to protect itself from future stress. This is a basic principle in weight training - super compensation and overload. Overload is the means in inducing progressive super compensation. The body will not synthesize protein it doesn't need. This matters because during aerobic exercise the body has three choices in going about meeting the energy requirements. It can...

    1. Use stored glycogen.

    2. Use stored fat.

    3. Use stored amino acids (muscle).

    When we do cardio in the morning on an empty stomach we pretty much eliminate option one. Muscle glycogen stores can never be 100% depleted, if they were we wouldn't be able to move. But, there are three places where glycogen can be found in the body (remember - we don't actually eat glycogen). The first place is in the liver, the second place is in the muscles, and the third place is in the blood stream. In the morning, after your 6-10 hours with no energy (food) liver glycogen will be just about depleted, blood glycogen will have been burned for energy, and muscle glycogen will have been severely depleted. What this means is that your body is in a state of extreme catabolism, it is literally breaking down muscle at an alarming rate. This is because when the liver runs out of glycogen it takes alanine, arginine and the other substrates, from the muscles in order to make more. This is muscle breakdown (atrophy). After waking up, you start to do activities (yes, going to the bathroom and watching tv is an "activity"). What this means is that you are increasing the bodies immediate energy requirement, which means - more muscle being broken down to meet energy needs. Then, the worst thing you can do at this time is to introduce aerobic activity. This means another increase in energy requirement, and further increase in muscle catabolism. Not a good situation to put your body in. Simply having a light meal before this activity would prevent all of this. The body would be taken out of its extremely catabolic state, it would have immediate energy other than muscle to use as fuel, and you will also have more energy to do your cardio with. More effort going into your cardio equals more benefits coming out of it.

    2. Increased metabolism for the rest of the day - this one is completely sensible. The thing is - the amount of food and the amount or glycogen you posses have no effect on this. Cardio in the morning is not a bad thing; cardio in the morning on an empty stomach is the bad thing. The solution to muscle catabolism? Eat before your cardio.
    That is, in a nutshell, why cardio in the morning on an empty stomach is not beneficial

    http://www.musclebomb.com/cardio_empty_stomach.html


    u da mannnnn!!!!!

  30. #30
    And you suppose me to understand this stuff with my low education?

  31. #31
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    [QUOTE=DSM4Life;4334906]Cardio on an empty stomach ? Might wanna thing twice about that.

    Let's take a look at the reasoning for doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach...

    1. Glycogen is depleted therefore more fat is burned - This is the major benefit people who push this method use to support their position. What they fail to realize is that anyone with weight training experience has (or should have) more muscle than is needed to sustain a healthy life. All of this extra muscle is detrimental to the survival of a human! Why? First of all, the individual body has one purpose in life. That purpose is survival. Fat is a much more efficient energy source for survival because it is not energy costly - it does not require calories to sustain. On top of this, fat is slower burning, as it is more calories dense. Therefore muscle will be burned before fat when in a state of starvation, as fat would keep you alive longer! That's the catch - just because glycogen stores are depleted that doesn't mean the body will just go straight to fat stores for its energy. How great that would be! Unfortunately, it's just not that simple. In the morning, glycogen is substantially depleted, in effect, so is ATP. If you have read some of my other articles you would know that ATP is the only source of energy for muscular contraction.

    QUOTE]


    i was under the impression around 60-70 calories a day are required to sustain one lb of muscle and fat while small compared to muscle still required around 6-9 calories to be sustained.

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