Carbs Post WO, Really Necessary???

[MuscleScience]

Right, that's what I'm saying. You are giving yourself dietary glucose at a time when (assuming intense workout) your body is in a glycogen shortage, this free floating dietary glucose in combination with the "insulin spike" it gives off IMO would provide the body a chance to quickly replenish glycogen stores.

You said glucose+water= glycogen

Your right, glucose will be quickly taken up by the muscle and liver cells post-workout. The liver will actually get the first crack at the ingested glucose and will start producing glycogen as well.

[RockyX]

I can see how that is confusing.

Glycogen partly consists of water. Each gram of glycogen is believed to draw 2.7g water into storage along with it. In times of activity this water is rapidly lost and must be replenished to help revive energy stores. In times of carbohydrate restriction in the diet, glycogen is also believed to be depleted and water lost.

[MuscleScience]

I can see how that is confusing.

Glycogen partly consists of water. Each gram of glycogen is believed to draw 2.7g water into storage along with it. In times of activity this water is rapidly lost and must be replenished to help revive energy stores. In times of carbohydrate restriction in the diet, glycogen is also believed to be depleted and water lost.

OK I see what your saying. I thought your were saying that when glucose meets water they react to form glycogen. Instead your meaning that since both are polar molecules they bind together in 1 to 3 relationship. If you just would have said that there would have been no confusion.

[RockyX]

yeah I figured that's how you took it. Sorry bout the confusion.

[novastepp]

So you eat potatoes and broccoli in the lockerroom right after your workout???
Or they have to be meant PPWO?
Can I have my why right after my WO and my complex carbs 1 hour after so?

i just use them for my meals. i don't eat at the gym, i usually do some form of PWO cardio for about 20-30 minutes.

you could separate your protein and carbs but why? if you eat them together, then you don't have to wait any extra time eating that PPOWO meal.

[novastepp]

I've read that its better absorbed this way.(Waiting 15 minutes or so). The main priority PWO, as A&F stated is to replenish glycogen stores. The WMS will do that. Supposedly the protein is better absorbed if its consumed seperately(after) the WMS. I'll try to find the article...

close. glycogen isn't replenished after just one meal. not even close really. your carbs should be consumed with your protein in any case. sip your whey over about a ten minute period to help your body elongate its absorption and aid in the absorption and subsequent glycogen replenishment. it will take you over a 24 hour period to replenish the majority of your glycogen.

[novastepp]

thats fine, i was just wondering. i thought you would want the WMS to push the whey in the muscles.

nothing pushes anything into muscles. carbs and protein do many thing which i have stated in a couple lengthy posts above. but there isn't a pushing action. combination of carbs and protein allows for greater absorption of aminos which then aid in recovery.

[novastepp]

Right, that's what I'm saying. You are giving yourself dietary glucose at a time when (assuming intense workout) your body is in a glycogen shortage, this free floating dietary glucose in combination with the "insulin spike" it gives off IMO would provide the body a chance to quickly replenish glycogen stores.

it takes much longer than one meal to replenish glycogen. and the only spike you're going to get get from insulin is if you were to inject it PWO. forget that insulin spike stuff if you aren't using slin. carbohydrates throughout the day and after a workout are the only way to fully get those glycogen stores full(er) after a long period of time.

[novastepp]

Dextrose = Glucose
Glucose + Water = Glycogen

and that's terribly inaccurate.

[novastepp]

So what should be the minimum amount of carbs to injest to fully replenish glycogen stores?

fully replenish... no set number per se.

to fully replenish glycogen stores im guessing you would need to be inactive for about four days. every take a week off from the gym? if you have you may notice you come back stronger. that is due to nearly full glycogen levels and subsequent energy. just eat carbs and that alone will help you replenish to your highest achievable point before your next workout.

[ChuckLee]

fully replenish... no set number per se.

to fully replenish glycogen stores im guessing you would need to be inactive for about four days. every take a week off from the gym? if you have you may notice you come back stronger. that is due to nearly full glycogen levels and subsequent energy. just eat carbs and that alone will help you replenish to your highest achievable point before your next workout.

Well, today I've learnt something a lot important. Thanks again Nova

[novastepp]

Well, today I've learned something a lot important. Thanks again Nova

where you from chuck? other than my gf's asscrack apparently.

[ChuckLee]

where you from chuck? other than my gf's asscrack apparently.

Italy...i know i know sometimes i miss some verb or word...but who cares.
Last question for my favourite whore dieting guru: is "Vitargo" complex carbs?

[texasmk4]

I do a shake with 70g WMS and 10g creatine right after my last set. When I get home(10-15 minutes later) I have my whey. THEN afte a shower and some bullshitting(about 45 minutes) I have some lean meat and a complex carb w/ veggies.

I've found that this works very well for me.

you don't do cardio after you work out?? what if in my case i like to do a little cardio after work out can i wait till i done with my cardio or consume it right after it?

[ChuckLee]

Italy...i know i know sometimes i miss some verb or word...but who cares.
Last question for my favourite whore dieting guru: is "Vitargo" complex carbs?

Bump

[ckyass]

you don't do cardio after you work out?? what if in my case i like to do a little cardio after work out can i wait till i done with my cardio or consume it right after it?

Consume your whey and carbs after your workout/cardio.. If i know im going to do cardio that day after my workout i usually give myself less rest time inbetween sets so im only lifting for a max of 35-40 mins...than hit 20-25 mins of low intensity cardo......Than hit the whey and wms. I used to take 50 grams whey, 100 grams of wms pwo but now ive been splitting that into half before and half after... so 25 whey pre, 50 wms pre and the same for post..I noticed much more intensity in the gym and i enjoy it. I have tried oats pwo and i wasnt a fan of it...i also tried dex/malo and it seemed to put the most weight on me but it seemed to be sloppy weight... Waxy maize so far has been nothing but good. Just my 2cent on the whole subject.

[RockyX]

it takes much longer than one meal to replenish glycogen. and the only spike you're going to get get from insulin is if you were to inject it PWO. forget that insulin spike stuff if you aren't using slin. carbohydrates throughout the day and after a workout are the only way to fully get those glycogen stores full(er) after a long period of time.

I'm just curious because obviously you know your stuff, and Biochemistry was never my bread and butter, but is there not a relatively large increase in insulin after consuming simple carbs/sugars?

And as far as my statement:

Glucose + Water = Glycogen

I was in no was saying that if you add water to Glucose you are standing there with a cup full of Glycogen. I realize how it can be inferred that way. I was only trying to state that Water and Glucose are both major components in the make-up of Glycogen.

[novastepp]

Consume your whey and carbs after your workout/cardio.. If i know im going to do cardio that day after my workout i usually give myself less rest time inbetween sets so im only lifting for a max of 35-40 mins...than hit 20-25 mins of low intensity cardo......Than hit the whey and wms. I used to take 50 grams whey, 100 grams of wms pwo but now ive been splitting that into half before and half after... so 25 whey pre, 50 wms pre and the same for post..I noticed much more intensity in the gym and i enjoy it. I have tried oats pwo and i wasnt a fan of it...i also tried dex/malo and it seemed to put the most weight on me but it seemed to be sloppy weight... Waxy maize so far has been nothing but good. Just my 2cent on the whole subject.

see PWO cardio's benefits can be argued because if you only lift for say 30-45 minutes theoretically your glycogen stores aren't going to be tapped dry, if you will. so therefore your cardio will basically tap your glycogen stores instead of fat stores. so if you're only lifting for 30 minutes, it better be vicious. and i agree with you. just have whatever you normally have for your PWO offering, after your PWO cardio.

[novastepp]

I'm just curious because obviously you know your stuff, and Biochemistry was never my bread and butter, but is there not a relatively large increase in insulin after consuming simple carbs/sugars?

not as large as you would think. in reality it isn't anywhere near any exogenous amount you could inject. and the mere introduction of insulin through a high GI carb or a low one is going to give you the results you want from insulin without injecting.

[novastepp]

Italy...i know i know sometimes i miss some verb or word...but who cares.
Last question for my favourite whore dieting guru: is "Vitargo" complex carbs?

i'll tell you what. as far as vitargo goes. if you can show me one study that backs up any of their claims, i will shit myself. i have found only one study that was done with WMS, and it was not outperformed by maltodextrin over a period of 2.5 hours of cycling.

its starch, in an insoluable form. i don't buy into the designer stuff.

[ChuckLee]

i'll tell you what. as far as vitargo goes. if you can show me one study that backs up any of their claims, i will shit myself. i have found only one study that was done with WMS, and it was not outperformed by maltodextrin over a period of 2.5 hours of cycling.

its starch, in an insoluable form. i don't buy into the designer stuff.

So vitargo is relatively the same of WMS???

[ckyass]

So vitargo is relatively the same of WMS???

I believe vitargo is a term for a combo of WMS and creatine? I could be wrong...either way its deff WMS lol.

[ckyass]

see PWO cardio's benefits can be argued because if you only lift for say 30-45 minutes theoretically your glycogen stores aren't going to be tapped dry, if you will. so therefore your cardio will basically tap your glycogen stores instead of fat stores. so if you're only lifting for 30 minutes, it better be vicious. and i agree with you. just have whatever you normally have for your PWO offering, after your PWO cardio.

Yes Nova if im doing post cardio and only lifting for 40 mins, my lifting will include alot of drop sets/supersets.. Glycogen is most deff depleted after that because i keep the intensity very high.

[C_Bino]

So vitargo is relatively the same of WMS???

It IS WMS. It is just amylopectin, it's like eating a plants "glycogen."

I have never used it because I dont see the real benefit over any other form of carbs, I dont use dextrose either. The only benefit is that is allows more water to stay in your stomach so gastric emptying time is increased allowing it to get into the blood faster than other carbs. But just drink a lot of water like we all should anyways and you can save yourself some money and use oats.

[M302_Imola]

So vitargo is relatively the same of WMS???

Vitargo is the name that Nutrex Research gives the "carb" in Vitargo CGL. These are sugar free carbs (yet produce an insulin repsonse) that are made up of WMS. I just started taking the Vitargo CGL the other day so I am curious to see what results come of it. I am on cycle right now and figured it couldn't hurt.

[novastepp]

It IS WMS. It is just amylopectin, it's like eating a plants "glycogen."

I have never used it because I dont see the real benefit over any other form of carbs, I dont use dextrose either. The only benefit is that is allows more water to stay in your stomach so gastric emptying time is increased allowing it to get into the blood faster than other carbs. But just drink a lot of water like we all should anyways and you can save yourself some money and use oats.

exactly. good post Bino.

[ChuckLee]

It IS WMS. It is just amylopectin, it's like eating a plants "glycogen."

I have never used it because I dont see the real benefit over any other form of carbs, I dont use dextrose either. The only benefit is that is allows more water to stay in your stomach so gastric emptying time is increased allowing it to get into the blood faster than other carbs. But just drink a lot of water like we all should anyways and you can save yourself some money and use oats.

Thanks a lot Bino, but if I could find oats in my country I never asked that question.

CL