Bulking while carb cycling?

**M302_Imola** · 08-29-2008, 11:20 AM

I have been cutting using carb cycling the last 2 months with great success, 5’-10” started at 195 lbs. @ 14%bf and now I am at 186 lbs. @ 9%bf. I am going to continue to cut for two more weeks then I want to lean bulk and my goal is to reach 200 lbs. @ no higher than 12% bf. I really like carb cycling and was wondering if you guys had some insight on how to lean bulk while carb cycling. Pinnacle posted an article a while back about cutting with carb cycling that I have been following and it mentioned using carb cycling to bulk as well but did not go into great detail. I figured I can just up the calories from what I cycling right now in hopes to achieve my goal, what do you guys think? I am going to list my current cutting carb cycle routine and hopefully you guys can help me tweak into a lean bulker.

Cycle consisting of a high, low, and no carb format: Mon = high, Tue = low, Wed = no, Thur = high, Fri = low, Sat = no, Sun = low and then I rinse and repeat.
**Note: I do not lift weights on the no carb days, steady state cardio only

Cut Diet – High Carb

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
1 CUP OATMEAL 270 4 9 51

TOTAL 510 5 58 58

MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
¾ CUP OATS 225 3 7 40

TOTAL 423 6 45 41

MEAL 3: 12:30am
BROWN RICE 1 CUP 170 1 4 35
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 390 11 32 39

MEAL 4: 3:30pm
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
¾ CUP OATS 225 3 7 40
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 463 11 45 41

WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 6 9 54
1 BANANA 121 0 1 31

TOTAL 661 8 58 91

MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
SMALL SWEET POTATOE 115 0 8 25
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 345 2 51 29

MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2

TOTAL 200 3 37 2

TOTAL (TOTAL) 2992 46 326 301

cut Diet – Low Carb

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
½ CUP OATMEAL 150 3 5 27

TOTAL 390 4 54 34

MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
½ OZ ALMONDS 85 8 3 3

TOTAL 283 11 41 4

MEAL 3: 12:30am
½ SCOOP WHEY 60 1 12 1
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 280 11 40 5

MEAL 4: 3:30pm
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC OR 3 EGG WHITES 30 0 1 4
1 CUP OATS 300 6 9 54

TOTAL 480 11 37 58

WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6
½ CUP OATMEAL 150 3 5 27
1 BANANA 121 0 1 31

TOTAL 511 5 54 64

MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
SMALL SWEET POTATOE 115 0 8 25
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 345 2 51 29

MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2

TOTAL 200 3 37 2

TOTAL (TOTAL) 2489 47 314 196

Cut Diet – No Carb

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 270 1 50 11

MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
½ OZ ALMONDS 85 8 3 3

TOTAL 283 11 41 4

MEAL 3: 12:30am
½ SCOOP WHEY 60 1 12 1
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 280 11 40 5

MEAL 4: 3:30pm
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 268 8 39 5

WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6

TOTAL 240 2 48 6

MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 230 2 43 4

MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2

TOTAL 200 3 37 2

TOTAL (TOTAL) 1771 38 298 38

2 HIGH CARB DAYS = 2992(2) = 5984
3 LOW CARB DAYS = 2489(3) = 7467
2 NO CARB DAYS = 1771(2) = 3542
16993/7 = 2428 AVG DAILY CALS

**novastepp** · 08-29-2008, 12:25 PM

give me a little time here 302, but yes carb cycling is always a part of my bulking phases. and i will go through your stuff a little later. I just don't want you to think no one cares

**audis4** · 08-29-2008, 12:47 PM

^^I'm going to be gone later today. If i dont get to it today, I'll get to it when I get back!

**M302_Imola** · 08-29-2008, 01:23 PM

Thanks guys...looking forward to your feedback when you get a chance

**M302_Imola** · 08-31-2008, 08:21 AM

bump for some help...where you guys at?

**Scarface69** · 08-31-2008, 10:00 AM

I'm going to give you my 2cents since I've been lean bulking for few months now and have had good results so far..

your overall diet looks pretty good. however, I'd add more brocolli to your meals to slow down the digesting especially to your first 3 meals since there is a gap of 2.5-3 hours between the meals. try to consume 1 cup of broc in every pro/carb meal.

meal 3, replace the brown rice with sweet potato. personally and from experimenting on my body I'm currently relying on oats and sweet potato as my only carb sources.

your last meal (meal 7), I'd add a scoop of whey since I found that a mix of casien and whey before bed works pretty good and keeps you full while sleeping.

now regarding carb cycling, keep it simple, just add an additional 600-800 kcals of carbs in your carb up day. since you're trying to lean bulk you'll be loaded with food in your carb up day and sometimes you might feel you dont feel like consumning your next meal (consuming 100+ gram of carbs in one sitting is no fun and keeps you bloated for many 'hours'). however, you gotta man up and do it, the results are great and you'll feel good the next day...

in your carb up day you'll need to reduce your protein intake and rely only on the fats coming from your pro/carb meals (meaning dont have a seperate pro/fat meals)

I'm sure I've forgot to mention few things but let me know if you have any more questions.

**M302_Imola** · 09-01-2008, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Scarface69

I'm going to give you my 2cents since I've been lean bulking for few months now and have had good results so far..
What kind of results (if you don't mind me asking)?
your overall diet looks pretty good. however, I'd add more brocolli to your meals to slow down the digesting especially to your first 3 meals since there is a gap of 2.5-3 hours between the meals. try to consume 1 cup of broc in every pro/carb meal. I agree I do need to add more broc.

meal 3, replace the brown rice with sweet potato. personally and from experimenting on my body I'm currently relying on oats and sweet potato as my only carb sources. Agree...I will sub the brown rice for a sweet potato.

your last meal (meal 7), I'd add a scoop of whey since I found that a mix of casien and whey before bed works pretty good and keeps you full while sleeping. I am going to stick with cottage cheese and casein for this meal because it seems to be working well. What are your thoughts on adding in a spoonful of natty pb?

now regarding carb cycling, keep it simple, just add an additional 600-800 kcals of carbs in your carb up day. since you're trying to lean bulk you'll be loaded with food in your carb up day and sometimes you might feel you dont feel like consumning your next meal (consuming 100+ gram of carbs in one sitting is no fun and keeps you bloated for many 'hours'). however, you gotta man up and do it, the results are great and you'll feel good the next day...

in your carb up day you'll need to reduce your protein intake and rely only on the fats coming from your pro/carb meals (meaning dont have a seperate pro/fat meals)

I'm sure I've forgot to mention few things but let me know if you have any more questions.

Thanks for the suggestions bro

comments in bold above

**Scarface69** · 09-01-2008, 01:37 PM

9 weeks of a strict lean bulking, I added 7lbs and gained 1% bf. I'm currently at 200lbs 9% bf. not too bad for a bulking diet..

I forgot to mention, since your currently on a cutting diet and will start ramping up your carbs and pro intakes, DONT up your calories all in one day. meaning work up your way to your new desired needed dialy calorie. that way you wont add a significant fat like what i did when i switched fron cutting to lean bulking..

about adding natty pb to your CC, thats a very good idea easpecially in your before bed meal. what I do as my last meal is;

- 150g cottage cheese
- 2 tablespoons natty peanut butter
- 1 scope whey protein
- 1 teaspoon cinnamon
- 2 packs splenda
- 3 pieces blackberries

blend all in a plate and put in the freezer for 10 mins then eat with a spoon. damn taste so good. its like a cheat meal everyday, lol.

**M302_Imola** · 09-01-2008, 03:31 PM

[QUOTE=Scarface69;4166655]9 weeks of a strict lean bulking, I added 7lbs and gained 1% bf. I'm currently at 200lbs 9% bf. not too bad for a bulking diet..

I forgot to mention, since your currently on a cutting diet and will start ramping up your carbs and pro intakes, DONT up your calories all in one day. meaning work up your way to your new desired needed dialy calorie. that way you wont add a significant fat like what i did when i switched fron cutting to lean bulking..QUOTE]
Wow bro awesome results...that's exactly what kind of results I'm shooting for! I am going to try to be patient and make slow gains to keep the bf down. Right now I am averaging 2500 cals a day, so I was thinking about amping it up to 2800 and then adjusting accordingly. Hey if you don't mind pm me your lean bulk diet that you are following right now. Thanks for the help bro.

**Scarface69** · 09-01-2008, 03:42 PM

adding 200-300 Kcals every 1-2 weeks would be a good start. patience is the key bro. I've done a mistake and upped my calories 1500 kcal in one day and gained 2% bf in just 1 week. i had to workout my ass in the morning with cardio to get these bf down again, lol..

glad I can help. PM is on the way!

**M302_Imola** · 09-02-2008, 06:11 AM

Novastepp and AudiS4 where you at? Labor Day weekend is over therefore you hangover should have worn off and you should be thinking clearly again, lol.

**audis4** · 09-02-2008, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

I have been cutting using carb cycling the last 2 months with great success, 5’-10” started at 195 lbs. @ 14%bf and now I am at 186 lbs. @ 9%bf. I am going to continue to cut for two more weeks then I want to lean bulk and my goal is to reach 200 lbs. @ no higher than 12% bf. I really like carb cycling and was wondering if you guys had some insight on how to lean bulk while carb cycling. Pinnacle posted an article a while back about cutting with carb cycling that I have been following and it mentioned using carb cycling to bulk as well but did not go into great detail. I figured I can just up the calories from what I cycling right now in hopes to achieve my goal, what do you guys think? I am going to list my current cutting carb cycle routine and hopefully you guys can help me tweak into a lean bulker.

Cycle consisting of a high, low, and no carb format: Mon = high, Tue = low, Wed = no, Thur = high, Fri = low, Sat = no, Sun = low and then I rinse and repeat.
**Note: I do not lift weights on the no carb days, steady state cardio only

Cut Diet – High Carb

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
1 CUP OATMEAL 270 4 9 51

TOTAL 510 5 58 58
looks good here.
MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
¾ CUP OATS 225 3 7 40

TOTAL 423 6 45 41
I would up the carbs a bit...do 1 cup oats
MEAL 3: 12:30am
BROWN RICE 1 CUP 170 1 4 35
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 390 11 32 39
I would up the protein intake here...6-8oz
MEAL 4: 3:30pm
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
¾ CUP OATS 225 3 7 40
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 463 11 45 41
Go ahead and do 1 cup oats here. Everything else looks good.
WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 6 9 54
1 BANANA 121 0 1 31

TOTAL 661 8 58 91
Looks good. just throwing this out there, I know nova and I do this PWO, try 1/2 cup FF CC, 1 banana, 1 scoop whey, and 1/2 cup oats with water and ice. This works really well for me.
MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
SMALL SWEET POTATOE 115 0 8 25
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 345 2 51 29
You don't need to count veggies. I'd up the carb intake to double that.
MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2

TOTAL 200 3 37 2
loos good here. I'd even add 2 tbsp natty PB
TOTAL (TOTAL) 2992 46 326 301

Don't be afraid to get those cals up a little higher as well as your carbs.

cut Diet – Low Carb

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
½ CUP OATMEAL 150 3 5 27

TOTAL 390 4 54 34
looks good
MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
½ OZ ALMONDS 85 8 3 3

TOTAL 283 11 41 4

MEAL 3: 12:30am
½ SCOOP WHEY 60 1 12 1
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0
good, I'd up the protein because your carbs are so low.
TOTAL 280 11 40 5

MEAL 4: 3:30pm
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC OR 3 EGG WHITES 30 0 1 4
1 CUP OATS 300 6 9 54

TOTAL 480 11 37 58
no need to count veggies. do the 3 whites w/ chicken and 1 cup oats.
WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6
½ CUP OATMEAL 150 3 5 27
1 BANANA 121 0 1 31

TOTAL 511 5 54 64
looks good here.
MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
SMALL SWEET POTATOE 115 0 8 25
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 345 2 51 29
up the protein a bit here
MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2

TOTAL 200 3 37 2
2tbsp of natty PB
TOTAL (TOTAL) 2489 47 314 196

Cut Diet – No Carb

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 270 1 50 11
id do hella veggies on this day. Do whole foods on this day, up the egg white intake.
MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
½ OZ ALMONDS 85 8 3 3

TOTAL 283 11 41 4
good, up the fat intake
MEAL 3: 12:30am
½ SCOOP WHEY 60 1 12 1
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 280 11 40 5
up the protein to at least double as well as veggies.
MEAL 4: 3:30pm
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 268 8 39 5
I'd do more protein/fat here.
WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6

TOTAL 240 2 48 6
I'd do cottage cheese/whey.
MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 230 2 43 4
more protein here.
MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2

TOTAL 200 3 37 2
add fats in here.
TOTAL (TOTAL) 1771 38 298 38

2 HIGH CARB DAYS = 2992(2) = 5984
3 LOW CARB DAYS = 2489(3) = 7467
2 NO CARB DAYS = 1771(2) = 3542
16993/7 = 2428 AVG DAILY CALS

My appologies for taking 900 years to get back to you bro! it was a crazy weekend and I had quite a bit going

Anyhow, I gave you my best critique, take a look and let me know what you think.

looks like your doing more calorie cycling vs carb cycling.

On low/no carb days, I'd up the fat/protein/veggie intake like hell. Try to keep cals constant on all days, unless your wanting to calorie cycle. I'd also have a crazy feed day of high carbs.

What are your maintenance cals btw? Cals seem much to low to do a lean bulk.

Are you going to be on anything? What are your goals?

**M302_Imola** · 09-02-2008, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by audis4

My appologies for taking 900 years to get back to you bro! it was a crazy weekend and I had quite a bit going

Anyhow, I gave you my best critique, take a look and let me know what you think.

looks like your doing more calorie cycling vs carb cycling.

On low/no carb days, I'd up the fat/protein/veggie intake like hell. Try to keep cals constant on all days, unless your wanting to calorie cycle. I'd also have a crazy feed day of high carbs.

What are your maintenance cals btw? Cals seem much to low to do a lean bulk.

Are you going to be on anything? What are your goals?

Thanks for the words of wisdom bro. I have been thinking about doing away with the no carb days and just running 5 low carb days (bout 2500 cals) with 2 high carb days (refeed days bout 3500 cals). My maintanence cals are right around 2800 right now so I thought about starting there and then inching my way up. Don't plan on doing anygear until I get back up to around 200 lbs. I am about to get my bf checked again along with some measurements so I can assess my progress. Biggest goal is to keep my bf in check so next summer it will be easier to get down to a low bf.

**audis4** · 09-02-2008, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

Thanks for the words of wisdom bro. I have been thinking about doing away with the no carb days and just running 5 low carb days (bout 2500 cals) with 2 high carb days (refeed days bout 3500 cals). My maintanence cals are right around 2800 right now so I thought about starting there and then inching my way up. Don't plan on doing anygear until I get back up to around 200 lbs. I am about to get my bf checked again along with some measurements so I can assess my progress. Biggest goal is to keep my bf in check so next summer it will be easier to get down to a low bf.

hey you got it bro!

Ya, I would personally do away with no carb days. I have never carb cycled while lean bulking before so you'll have to let me know the outcome! I wouldn't go under maintenance cals; in fact, I wouldn't go under 3,000 cals/day. If your specifically 'carb cycling,' keep cals constant whether your on a low carb day or high carb day.

On low carb days, just up the protein like hell but I wouldn't go too terribly low on carbs where you feel fatigued. Also make sure your taking in a good amount of healthy fats.

Make sure you have a carb up day every few days or so where your eating something like 1-1.5g protein/lbs body weight and your carbs are coming from sweet potatos, oats, yams etc. As far as carbs, try to get 2.5-3g carbs/lbs body weight and keep fats lower.

Your goal of 200lbs shouldn't be hard to attain at all! I know you how to diet

Let me know what you think. Don't make the diet too confusing where you are going to lose track. Come up with something a bit more simple and I'll be happy to help bud!

audis4

**novastepp** · 09-03-2008, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

Thanks for the words of wisdom bro. I have been thinking about doing away with the no carb days and just running 5 low carb days (bout 2500 cals) with 2 high carb days (refeed days bout 3500 cals). My maintanence cals are right around 2800 right now so I thought about starting there and then inching my way up. Don't plan on doing anygear until I get back up to around 200 lbs. I am about to get my bf checked again along with some measurements so I can assess my progress. Biggest goal is to keep my bf in check so next summer it will be easier to get down to a low bf.

i think audis has helped you well with your diet. but your dietary approach may need tweaking. when you say low carb days, and 2500cals, how many cals are coming from carbs? pro? fat?

and on higher days, what will your macros spread be then in regard to calorie intake?

**M302_Imola** · 09-03-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by novastepp

i think audis has helped you well with your diet. but your dietary approach may need tweaking. when you say low carb days, and 2500cals, how many cals are coming from carbs? pro? fat?

and on higher days, what will your macros spread be then in regard to calorie intake?

I am revising my diet as we speak. I was thinking around 150-175g carbs during my low carb days and around 400g on high carb days. Do you think that 400g of carbs is enough for my refeed (high carb) days or should I increase this number? After I get some answers I will repost my diet. Thanks

**audis4** · 09-03-2008, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

I am revising my diet as we speak. I was thinking around 150-175g carbs during my low carb days and around 400g on high carb days. Do you think that 400g of carbs is enough for my refeed (high carb) days or should I increase this number? After I get some answers I will repost my diet. Thanks

It's rather hard to actually know what amount of carbs you should eat.

You need to factor in your activity level for that day, if you're taking any drugs etc.

After my last lean bulk, I know my body better than ever and I know approximately how many carbs I will need to lean up or bulk up.

I started off a bit over maintenance; 8 meals that were all pro/carb except the last meal.

it went something like this,
meal 1:
7oz chicken
1 cup oats
1tbsp natty PB

meal 2:
12 egg whites
12 oz sweet potato

and my last meal is
1 cup ff cottage cheese
2 tbsp natty PB

I would recommend starting off a few hundred cals over maintenance and try to make all your meals pro/carb. I would throw in some healthy fats as well. Really watch your physique, I tend to put on weight in my face so it's an easy way for me to tell. If you start gaining fat, drop cals slightly but i would keep your carb intake up.

JMO, post up your diet when your finished and I'll take a look

**novastepp** · 09-03-2008, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

I am revising my diet as we speak. I was thinking around 150-175g carbs during my low carb days and around 400g on high carb days. Do you think that 400g of carbs is enough for my refeed (high carb) days or should I increase this number? After I get some answers I will repost my diet. Thanks

i agree with audis. guy knows his stuff.

with the carbs, if you are going to bulk under 200g of carbs a day i would have one refeed day where i go about 400 or so and then another where you top off over 500g. refeed days are whate separate good gains from great gains IMO. and they are not cheat days. they are whole-wheat potato-loving, oat-bag, definitely-going-to-get-a-little-bloated days.

audis' approach is extremely close to mine when bulking. and its a no-nonsense approach. eat eat eat. let's see the diet.

**audis4** · 09-03-2008, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

i agree with audis. guy knows his stuff.

with the carbs, if you are going to bulk under 200g of carbs a day i would have one refeed day where i go about 400 or so and then another where you top off over 500g. refeed days are whate separate good gains from great gains IMO. and they are not cheat days. they are whole-wheat potato-loving, oat-bag, definitely-going-to-get-a-little-bloated days.

audis' approach is extremely close to mine when bulking. and its a no-nonsense approach. eat eat eat. let's see the diet.

^^

btw, everything I know, I learned from you

pro/carb is the best way IMO!

**M302_Imola** · 09-03-2008, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by audis4

It's rather hard to actually know what amount of carbs you should eat.

You need to factor in your activity level for that day, if you're taking any drugs etc.

After my last lean bulk, I know my body better than ever and I know approximately how many carbs I will need to lean up or bulk up.

I started off a bit over maintenance; 8 meals that were all pro/carb except the last meal.

it went something like this,
meal 1:
7oz chicken
1 cup oats
1tbsp natty PB

meal 2:
12 egg whites
12 oz sweet potato

and my last meal is
1 cup ff cottage cheese
2 tbsp natty PB

I would recommend starting off a few hundred cals over maintenance and try to make all your meals pro/carb. I would throw in some healthy fats as well. Really watch your physique, I tend to put on weight in my face so it's an easy way for me to tell. If you start gaining fat, drop cals slightly but i would keep your carb intake up.

JMO, post up your diet when your finished and I'll take a look

Good info bro thanks. I have never tried to regulate my carb intake while bulking so I am going to experiment with the cycling (5 low days and 2 refeed days) and let the mirror give me guidance. I am going to be patient but if gains are to slow, I will go back to a diet like before (similar to yours). I am goin to post the diet by tomorrow morning.

**M302_Imola** · 09-03-2008, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

i agree with audis. guy knows his stuff.

with the carbs, if you are going to bulk under 200g of carbs a day i would have one refeed day where i go about 400 or so and then another where you top off over 500g. refeed days are whate separate good gains from great gains IMO. and they are not cheat days. they are whole-wheat potato-loving, oat-bag, definitely-going-to-get-a-little-bloated days.

audis' approach is extremely close to mine when bulking. and its a no-nonsense approach. eat eat eat. let's see the diet.

Thanks bro the diet will be up by tomorrow morning so you guys can tweek away

**audis4** · 09-03-2008, 01:43 PM

^^sounds good bro!

you'll do great!

**M302_Imola** · 09-04-2008, 05:22 AM

Here it is guys tweek away! Cycling will be as follows: mon-high, tue-low, wed-low, thur-high, fri-low, sat-low, sun-low. The overall cals seem to be a little low for a lean bulk but I am going to be very patient and adjust as needed...keeping in mine my main goal is to keep bodyfat low and gain lean mass slowly. Thanks to all of those that have helped thus far

Lean Bulk Diet – High Carb (Refeed)

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 4 10 54
1 BANANA 121 0 1 31

TOTAL 661 5 60 92

MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
1.5 CUP OATMEAL 450 8 15 81
1 CUP BROC
TOTAL 648 11 53 82

MEAL 3: 12:30am
1 CUP SWT POT 261 7 3 48
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 481 17 31 52

MEAL 4: 3:30pm
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 4 10 54
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 538 12 48 55

WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 6 9 54
1 BANANA 121 0 1 31

TOTAL 661 8 58 91

MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
SMALL SWEET POTATOE 115 0 8 25
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 345 2 51 29

MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2
1 TSP. NATTY PB 105 8 4 3

TOTAL 305 11 41 5

TOTAL (TOTAL) 3639 65 342 406
CALS 3639 17% 38% 45%

Lean Bulk Diet – Low Carb

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 6 10 54

TOTAL 540 7 59 61

MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
½ OZ ALMONDS 85 8 3 3
BROC

TOTAL 283 11 41 4

MEAL 3: 12:30am
1 SCOOP WHEY 120 2 24 2
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 340 12 52 6

MEAL 4: 3:30pm
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
1 CUP OATS 300 6 9 54
BROC

TOTAL 498 11 46 54

WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 6 10 54

TOTAL 540 8 58 60

MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
SMALL SWEET POTATOE 115 0 8 25
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 345 2 51 29

MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2

TOTAL 200 3 37 2

TOTAL (TOTAL) 2746 54 344 216
CALS 2746 18% 50% 32%

2 HIGH CARB DAYS = 3639(2) = 7278
5 LOW CARB DAYS = 2746(5) = 13730
21008/7 = 3001 AVG DAILY CALS

**M302_Imola** · 09-05-2008, 05:14 AM

bump for my revised diet plan!

**audis4** · 09-05-2008, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

Here it is guys tweek away! Cycling will be as follows: mon-high, tue-low, wed-low, thur-high, fri-low, sat-low, sun-low. The overall cals seem to be a little low for a lean bulk but I am going to be very patient and adjust as needed...keeping in mine my main goal is to keep bodyfat low and gain lean mass slowly. Thanks to all of those that have helped thus far

Lean Bulk Diet – High Carb (Refeed)

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 4 10 54
1 BANANA 121 0 1 31

TOTAL 661 5 60 92
drop the banana and add a healthy fat
MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
1.5 CUP OATMEAL 450 8 15 81
1 CUP BROC
TOTAL 648 11 53 82
too many carbs IMO, add another meal if needed.
MEAL 3: 12:30am
1 CUP SWT POT 261 7 3 48
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 481 17 31 52
good
MEAL 4: 3:30pm
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 4 10 54
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 538 12 48 55
good
WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 6 9 54
1 BANANA 121 0 1 31

TOTAL 661 8 58 91
I'd do 1 scoop whey, 1/2 cup ff cc, 1/2 cup oats, and 1 banana
MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
SMALL SWEET POTATOE 115 0 8 25
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 345 2 51 29
add carbs here
MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2
1 TSP. NATTY PB 105 8 4 3

TOTAL 305 11 41 5
do 2 tbsp natty pb
TOTAL (TOTAL) 3639 65 342 406
CALS 3639 17% 38% 45%
looks decent overall. some meals had too many carbs/cals. Make calories constant/meal and possibly add 1 more meal.

Lean Bulk Diet – Low Carb

CALORIES FAT(g) PROTEIN(g) CARBS(g)

MEAL 1: 7am
PROTEIN SHAKE 120 1 24 3
EGG BEATERS 8OZ 120 0 25 4
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 6 10 54

TOTAL 540 7 59 61
good
MEAL 2: 9:30am
1 CAN TUNA 150 3 28 1
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
½ OZ ALMONDS 85 8 3 3
BROC

TOTAL 283 11 41 4
add more fats
MEAL 3: 12:30am
1 SCOOP WHEY 120 2 24 2
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
BROC 30 0 1 4
1 TSP. FISH OIL 40 5 0 0

TOTAL 340 12 52 6
drop the whey. add more chicken. add more fats.
MEAL 4: 3:30pm
4 OZ CHICK 150 5 27 0
3 EGG WHITES 48 0 10 0
1 CUP OATS 300 6 9 54
BROC

TOTAL 498 11 46 54
good
WORKOUT: 4:15-6:00pm

MEAL 5: 6pm (pwo)
2 SCOOPS WHEY 240 2 48 6
1 CUP OATMEAL 300 6 10 54

TOTAL 540 8 58 60
ok
MEAL 6: 8pm
SAUTEED TALAPIA 200 2 42 0
SMALL SWEET POTATOE 115 0 8 25
BROC 30 0 1 4

TOTAL 345 2 51 29
fine
MEAL 7: 10pm
½ CUP COTTAGE CHEESE 80 1 13 0
SCOOP CASEIN 120 2 24 2

TOTAL 200 3 37 2
add in a fat source.
TOTAL (TOTAL) 2746 54 344 216
CALS 2746 18% 50% 32%

2 HIGH CARB DAYS = 3639(2) = 7278
5 LOW CARB DAYS = 2746(5) = 13730
21008/7 = 3001 AVG DAILY CALS

My suggestions are in BOLD. Those are just my opinions so honestly do what you think is best and let us know how this goes for you; I'm very curious.

On your high carb day, focus on keeping meals 5-600cals/meal and carbs around 50-55g/meal. I would keep fats lower.

On low carbs days, keep calories over maintenance (because you are carb cycling not calorie) and keep protein/fats high and carbs low.

Best of luck to you, let me know what you change.

**M302_Imola** · 09-06-2008, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by audis4

My suggestions are in BOLD. Those are just my opinions so honestly do what you think is best and let us know how this goes for you; I'm very curious.

On your high carb day, focus on keeping meals 5-600cals/meal and carbs around 50-55g/meal. I would keep fats lower.

On low carbs days, keep calories over maintenance (because you are carb cycling not calorie) and keep protein/fats high and carbs low.

Best of luck to you, let me know what you change.

Thanks for the suggestions bro, you have been most helpful. I agree with most of your suggestions. I am going to keep the same diet as I posted above for about two weeks and then access. I know that I am starting on the low side but I want to take baby steps in my goal toward 200 lbs. If I am not seeing results initially I will incorporate your suggestions into my diet. I am trying to get in-tune with my body and adjust cals accordingly. I appreciate your interest and I will keep you updated.

**M302_Imola** · 09-06-2008, 11:43 AM

Nolva what's your take on my revised diet? Audis4 was saying that on my refeed days some of my meals contain to many carbs, but I was under the impression that as long as my carbs are low GI eating around 100g per meal wasn't a problem? I know some guys that eat as many carbs as the can stomach on their refeed days. Set me straight on this please.

**audis4** · 09-06-2008, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

Thanks for the suggestions bro, you have been most helpful. I agree with most of your suggestions. I am going to keep the same diet as I posted above for about two weeks and then access. I know that I am starting on the low side but I want to take baby steps in my goal toward 200 lbs. If I am not seeing results initially I will incorporate your suggestions into my diet. I am trying to get in-tune with my body and adjust cals accordingly. I appreciate your interest and I will keep you updated.

sounds good bro! keep us updated on your progress! follow the mirror as your guide

**novastepp** · 09-08-2008, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

Nolva what's your take on my revised diet? Audis4 was saying that on my refeed days some of my meals contain to many carbs, but I was under the impression that as long as my carbs are low GI eating around 100g per meal wasn't a problem? I know some guys that eat as many carbs as the can stomach on their refeed days. Set me straight on this please.

He gave you sound advice. We both agree that keeping an even calorie spread throughout the day is appropriate. when you are jumping up to high 600's and then down into the 400's that's the fluctuation we try to avoid.

I personally don't see a problem with a high carb day. I know a few of the older guys I learned from here, will go waaaay up with their carbs. they will only do that once evry couple of weeks, but I think your macro spreads are appropriate for now.

I say for now because your next step, at which you are currently stuck, is implementation. You should start up the revised diet, and evaluate yourself daily. (How do you feel after each meal? when do u have the most energy? any lightheadedness? Any fatigue? How are the lifts? are they progressing well? how do you look in the mirror? holding fat gain off at least for now?) keep track for a week or two and then make any necessary adjustments to your diet accordingly.

but honestly for now, get going. keep us updated in this thread too. make it a log.

**M302_Imola** · 09-09-2008, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by novastepp

He gave you sound advice. We both agree that keeping an even calorie spread throughout the day is appropriate. when you are jumping up to high 600's and then down into the 400's that's the fluctuation we try to avoid.

I personally don't see a problem with a high carb day. I know a few of the older guys I learned from here, will go waaaay up with their carbs. they will only do that once evry couple of weeks, but I think your macro spreads are appropriate for now.

I say for now because your next step, at which you are currently stuck, is implementation. You should start up the revised diet, and evaluate yourself daily. (How do you feel after each meal? when do u have the most energy? any lightheadedness? Any fatigue? How are the lifts? are they progressing well? how do you look in the mirror? holding fat gain off at least for now?) keep track for a week or two and then make any necessary adjustments to your diet accordingly.

but honestly for now, get going. keep us updated in this thread too. make it a log.

I see what you are saying. I am going to try to level out my meals to give a constant caloric intake without osilating from 600 cals one meal then 400 the next. I will keep updating this thread. Don't have enough time for a daily log so I might just do a weekly one. I weigh every monday so every tuesday would be a good day to post results of the prior week. Thanks for your help nolva.

**novastepp** · 09-11-2008, 05:03 PM

how are the lifts? any new PR's you can brag about?

**M302_Imola** · 09-12-2008, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by novastepp

how are the lifts? any new PR's you can brag about?

lifts are good as well as energy, even on low carb days. Legs have been an issue since I can't get over this damn pulled hamstring I got wakeboarding about 3 weeks ago. I can't stay off of it and I keep agrevating it. I will be updating everyone on tue after I weigh mon. Thanks for the interest!

**M302_Imola** · 09-16-2008, 11:13 AM

Update: weighed yesterday, as I do every monday, and my weight is still at 186 lbs. My energy was good last week and I have progressed on my lifts slightly. Bf% seems to be the same. I am going to stick with this diet until mon when I weigh again. If I don't gain at least 1 lb mon. I will then bump the calories up by 200-300 per day. Nolva should I bump the cals up for everyday or maybe just on my 2 refeed days?

**novastepp** · 09-16-2008, 04:12 PM

it's possible that your cals are too low on the majority of your lower days. that is where i would bump my numbers. for some, bulking is a lengthy phase, where waiting and progressing in the lifts is the main contributor. have you taken before pics? i would highly recommend it. i don't usually gauge myself by the scale. i can progress in lifts and stay lean and not gain any weight... which can be discouraging if i'm lifting by numbers not by my mirror. however, if i'm progressing and staying lean I AM BUILDING MUSCLE.

so don't live and die by that scale. sometimes rapid jumps can be the weight we don't want. so stick with it and up some of the carbs on your lower days and see if energy increases and your lifts progress.

**M302_Imola** · 09-17-2008, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by novastepp

it's possible that your cals are too low on the majority of your lower days. that is where i would bump my numbers. for some, bulking is a lengthy phase, where waiting and progressing in the lifts is the main contributor. have you taken before pics? i would highly recommend it. i don't usually gauge myself by the scale. i can progress in lifts and stay lean and not gain any weight... which can be discouraging if i'm lifting by numbers not by my mirror. however, if i'm progressing and staying lean I AM BUILDING MUSCLE.

so don't live and die by that scale. sometimes rapid jumps can be the weight we don't want. so stick with it and up some of the carbs on your lower days and see if energy increases and your lifts progress.

sounds good nolva I am going to increase my cals on the lower carb days by 200-300 starting next week. I hear what you're saying about the scale, it can f with your head sometimes. I am going to take some pics and let the mirror and my gf determine my progress. I am trying to be patient with the gains but I don't think 1 lb every 2 weeks is out of the realm. In the past I have been impatient and upped the cals to fast and put on bad weight, not this time. A lean 200 is the goal! Thanks for the interest bro!

**M302_Imola** · 09-23-2008, 12:29 PM

Weekly Update: Weighed in at 188 lbs. yesterday (up 2 lbs). I upped the cals slightly last week and this week I am upping the cals to 3900 on my 2 carb up days and 3100 on the five low carb days. I contribute the 2 lbs to the higher cals as well as missing cardio 1 day last week. My goal is 1 lb a week right now, no more no less. Energy and strength are good. AAS is calling my name but I want to hold off for awhile and try to get up to close to 200 lbs before I go that route.

**audis4** · 09-23-2008, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by M302_Imola

Weekly Update: Weighed in at 188 lbs. yesterday (up 2 lbs). I upped the cals slightly last week and this week I am upping the cals to 3900 on my 2 carb up days and 3100 on the five low carb days. I contribute the 2 lbs to the higher cals as well as missing cardio 1 day last week. My goal is 1 lb a week right now, no more no less. Energy and strength are good. AAS is calling my name but I want to hold off for awhile and try to get up to close to 200 lbs before I go that route.

sounds good buddy! you should easily be able to hit 200!!

**M302_Imola** · 09-25-2008, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by audis4

sounds good buddy! you should easily be able to hit 200!!

thanks for the words of encouragement bro!

**novastepp** · 09-25-2008, 02:50 PM

you will be there easily. let us know if things slow down after your calorie changes.

**M302_Imola** · 09-30-2008, 12:40 PM

UPDATE: lost 1 lb last week (weighing 187 lbs). This was not surprising seeing that I came down with a sickness this weekend. Just got to get over this illness and bounce back strong. Looking forward to my next weigh-in.

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