Diet help please

**xnotoriousx** · 01-06-2009, 08:10 PM

I came here a while back and got some of the best help one can get with my diet. I am human and like humans do, I got lazy and lost a years worth of hard work. Long story short, i'm back at it. What do you guys think about my diet? Any help what so ever please...

I'm 25 - 6'3 - 185lbs I've got a little fat on my face, gut and back so right now I want to keep it very lean with size gains.

wakeup-30 mins cardio

8am 6 eggs 4 just whites. cup of oats

10am cup lean groundbeef, cup brown rice, broc

12pm turkey or 2 cans tuna 3 slices wheatbread

2pm pre w/o banana and 1 scoop whey
*workout*
3pm post w/o within 5mins 2 scoops whey and 16 ounces of gatorade

6pm 8oz samon brown rice broc v8

9pm boneless grilled chic b w/cup almonds

Sleep....ZzZzzzZZzzz

I'm taking megaman multiv, fishoil, flaxseed oil thru the day and getting tons of water. Also taking liquid 2222 amino/protein before and after my cardio

Ok, if you guys have anything I should change, add, drop... anything please speak up. I want to get every minute of my time worth while working out so please let me know. Thanks guys

**kaberle_15** · 01-06-2009, 09:12 PM

You aren't telling us how much you are eating. How much chicken, fish, beef ect.. are you eating per meal (ounces, grams)?

How many calories are you consuming a day? How many macros (protein, carbs, fats)?

At 6'3 and 185 lbs and you want some more size you are going to have to be eating eating eating

**xnotoriousx** · 01-06-2009, 11:34 PM

the thing is, I was just laid off from work. I'm so inactive thru the day, how much can or should I goto the gym?

Is it ok to eat all of this and not really be active all day other then the gym?

As far as how much, each meal contains around 50g protien 60-70g carbs and keeping my fat low.

**xnotoriousx** · 01-07-2009, 12:03 PM

bump

Are there any food I should be changing, or times of eating ect. Thanks for any help.

**Deltasaurus** · 01-07-2009, 12:11 PM

To much protein not enough carbs or fat

**xnotoriousx** · 01-07-2009, 12:52 PM

So if I continue to eat this way what will happen? Do you suggest that I take in more oats and rice with my food or what?

**Phate** · 01-07-2009, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by xnotoriousx

I came here a while back and got some of the best help one can get with my diet. I am human and like humans do, I got lazy and lost a years worth of hard work. Long story short, i'm back at it. What do you guys think about my diet? Any help what so ever please...

I'm 25 - 6'3 - 185lbs I've got a little fat on my face, gut and back so right now I want to keep it very lean with size gains.

wakeup-30 mins cardio

8am 6 eggs 4 just whites. cup of oats

10am cup lean groundbeef, cup brown rice, broc

12pm turkey or 2 cans tuna 3 slices wheatbread

2pm pre w/o banana and 1 scoop whey
*workout*
3pm post w/o within 5mins 2 scoops whey and 16 ounces of gatorade

6pm 8oz samon brown rice broc v8

9pm boneless grilled chic b w/cup almonds

Sleep....ZzZzzzZZzzz

I'm taking megaman multiv, fishoil, flaxseed oil thru the day and getting tons of water. Also taking liquid 2222 amino/protein before and after my cardio

Ok, if you guys have anything I should change, add, drop... anything please speak up. I want to get every minute of my time worth while working out so please let me know. Thanks guys

first off, do you want to cut, clean bulk, or all out bulk?

**xnotoriousx** · 01-07-2009, 08:18 PM

I'm looking to add size and cut at the same time like a lean bulk but if that really isn't an option then i'd pick cut

**Phate** · 01-07-2009, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by xnotoriousx

I'm looking to add size and cut at the same time like a lean bulk but if that really isn't an option then i'd pick cut

it's hard to do, but you can, personally, i like to eat a good amount of food and with cardio, this way i'm not starving my body but rather increasing my metabolism to turn my body into a fat burning furnace

**Phate** · 01-07-2009, 10:30 PM

Originally Posted by xnotoriousx

I came here a while back and got some of the best help one can get with my diet. I am human and like humans do, I got lazy and lost a years worth of hard work. Long story short, i'm back at it. What do you guys think about my diet? Any help what so ever please...

I'm 25 - 6'3 - 185lbs I've got a little fat on my face, gut and back so right now I want to keep it very lean with size gains.

wakeup-30 mins cardio

8am 6 eggs 4 just whites. cup of oats
double the egg whites, they only have 4g of protein per one
10am cup lean groundbeef, cup brown rice, broc
how lean?
12pm turkey or 2 cans tuna 3 slices wheatbread

2pm pre w/o banana and 1 scoop whey
*workout*
3pm post w/o within 5mins 2 scoops whey and 16 ounces of gatorade
within 25-30mins is fine, cut the gatorade and add 70-80g of carbs worth of sweet potatos, white rice, or Waxy Maize starch
6pm 8oz samon brown rice broc v8

9pm boneless grilled chic b w/cup almonds
do you mean one full cup of almonds?

these are the stats for 1/4cup almonds

Calories 170 Calories from Fat 140

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

% Daily Value *
Total Fat 15g 23%
Saturated Fat 1g 5%
Monounsaturated Fat 10g
Polyunsaturated Fat 3.5g
Trans Fat 0g
Cholesterol 0mg 0%
Sodium 0mg 0%
Potassium 220mg 6%
Total Carbohydrate 6g 2%
Dietary Fiber 4g 16%
Sugars 1g
Protein 6g 12%

Sleep....ZzZzzzZZzzz

I'm taking megaman multiv, fishoil, flaxseed oil thru the day and getting tons of water. Also taking liquid 2222 amino/protein before and after my cardio

Ok, if you guys have anything I should change, add, drop... anything please speak up. I want to get every minute of my time worth while working out so please let me know. Thanks guys

where are you putting the fish oil and flaxseed oil, they should be part of the diet as well

**xnotoriousx** · 01-07-2009, 11:13 PM

8am 12 eggs 10 just whites. cup of oats

10am cup 93% lean groundbeef, cup brown rice, broc tablespoon of flax seed

12pm turkey or 2 cans tuna 3 slices wheatbread fishoil pill

2pm pre w/o banana and 1 scoop whey
*workout*
3pm post w/o within 5mins 2 scoops whey whiterice or oats 70g carbs worth

6pm 8oz samon brown rice broc v8

9pm boneless grilled chic b w 1/4 cup almonds

Does this look right?

**Phate** · 01-07-2009, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by xnotoriousx

8am 12 eggs 10 just whites. cup of oats

10am cup 93% lean groundbeef, cup brown rice, broc tablespoon of flax seed

12pm turkey or 2 cans tuna 3 slices wheatbread fishoil pill

2pm pre w/o banana and 1 scoop whey
*workout*
3pm post w/o within 5mins 2 scoops whey whiterice or oats 70g carbs worth

6pm 8oz samon brown rice broc v8

9pm boneless grilled chic b w 1/4 cup almonds

Does this look right?

i wouldn't mix the carbs/fats if possible, but that's JMO

i would make one meal earlier in the day a pro/fat meal and put the flax and fish oil there and just cut the carbs out of it

white rice or oats is fine, if oats try to get the quick oats or blend them so they are absorbed quicker

**C_Bino** · 01-07-2009, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

i wouldn't mix the carbs/fats if possible, but that's JMO

i would make one meal earlier in the day a pro/fat meal and put the flax and fish oil there and just cut the carbs out of it

white rice or oats is fine, if oats try to get the quick oats or blend them so they are absorbed quicker

Why do you think he needs the carbs to absorb quicker? PWO insulin spike is just unfounded.

Does anyone really think you are going to refill your glycogen with one simple carb meal after training. It can take 24 hours to restore yet some people think you gotta dump sugar in your body.

You know protein can take up to 5 hours to leave your stomach right? And sugar takes almost no time at all, but the pyloric valve is gonna remain closed until the protein is ready to pass to the small intestine so the sugars will just ferment in your stomach for 5 hours...this is why people get a lot of gas and bloating from pwo shakes.

**Phate** · 01-08-2009, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Why do you think he needs the carbs to absorb quicker? PWO insulin spike is just unfounded.

Does anyone really think you are going to refill your glycogen with one simple carb meal after training. It can take 24 hours to restore yet some people think you gotta dump sugar in your body.

You know protein can take up to 5 hours to leave your stomach right? And sugar takes almost no time at all, but the pyloric valve is gonna remain closed until the protein is ready to pass to the small intestine so the sugars will just ferment in your stomach for 5 hours...this is why people get a lot of gas and bloating from pwo shakes.

well shoot me down why don't ya, lol, jk, i'm glad you did actually cause i was wondering why we spike insulin in the first place as i've never read anything that shows benefit from it

though i have read that whey protein is digested in 30-45 minutes, so why would it take 5 hours to be ready for digestion?

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-08-2009, 12:04 AM

^^ i know we have discussed this in the past and there is debate re the insulin spike post wo ..i dont think the only benefit is rapid glycogen store restoration. It is the effect insulin has on nutrient utilization by the body. Also as one of insulins primary functions is to shuttle glucose to the muscle it is not ridiculous to assume that it will in fact encourage glycogen store replenishment. I dunno for sure, some people swear by it others dont, but im not sure its prudent to dismiss it as 100 % ineffective either. JMO
i think the jury is out on this one...prob has its pros and possible cons...
btw: whey protein in the form of a shake certainly wont take 5 hours to leave your stomach.... again JMO....

**Phate** · 01-08-2009, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

^^ i know we have discussed this in the past and there is debate re the insulin spike post wo ..i dont think the only benefit is rapid glycogen store restoration. It is the effect insulin has on nutrient utilization by the body. Also as one of insulins primary functions is to shuttle glucose to the muscle it is not ridiculous to assume that it will in fact encourage glycogen store replenishment. I dunno for sure, some people swear by it others dont, but im not sure its prudent to dismiss it 100 % ineffective either. JMO
btw: whey protein in the form of a shake certainly wont take 5 hours to leave your stomach.... again JMO....

good points^^^^

here's the logic i'm using, people shoot insulin PWO to help shuttle nutrients in to the muscle, so why would an insulin spike from carbs be any different, aside from the extraneous insulin being in a higher amount then that caused by the carbs?

**C_Bino** · 01-08-2009, 12:10 AM

Well just proteins in general is all I mean. But ya our bodies just do much better without ingesting any sugars at all. I never suggest anything that causes a high output of insulin .

I mean from a health perspective alone in my case I know 1tsp of sugar can decrease immune funtion up to 17% for up to 4 hours.

Whey protein may digest faster, too be honest I personally dont know the transit time for it. I have never actually read into it at all. I mainly stick with food sources and perhaps have a shake here and there when I need to but dont specifically use it for PWO or any given time.

A lot of the info online was something I stuck by when i first started out. But then I actually went to school for nutrition, and made friends with a couple IFBB pro's and a few top end competitors and realize none of them have shakes or dextrose PWO. They have food. Or sometimes they have a shake at the gym then go home and eat RIGHT AWAY as their main source of nutrition PWO.

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-08-2009, 12:11 AM

Phate ......i have used insulin ...and when i do i use it first thing in am and pwo...the same times i naturally induce insulin spikes using high gi carbs... (depending on diet im doing based on goals-not all the time) so i tend to agree...
and bino as we discussed in aonther thread i have heard the same re some ifbb pros....but insulin use is also very prevalent sooo....i dunno......

**Phate** · 01-08-2009, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Well just proteins in general is all I mean. But ya our bodies just do much better without ingesting any sugars at all. I never suggest anything that causes a high output of insulin .

I mean from a health perspective alone in my case I know 1tsp of sugar can decrease immune funtion up to 17% for up to 4 hours.

Whey protein may digest faster, too be honest I personally dont know the transit time for it. I have never actually read into it at all. I mainly stick with food sources and perhaps have a shake here and there when I need to but dont specifically use it for PWO or any given time.

A lot of the info online was something I stuck by when i first started out. But then I actually went to school for nutrition, and made friends with a couple IFBB pro's and a few top end competitors and realize none of them have shakes or dextrose PWO. They have food. Or sometimes they have a shake at the gym then go home and eat RIGHT AWAY as their main source of nutrition PWO.

very informative, thank you, hopefully i'll be able to take some nutritional science courses this semester

**Phate** · 01-08-2009, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup

Phate ......i have used insulin ...and when i do i use it first thing in am and pwo...the same times i naturally induce insulin spikes using high gi carbs... (depending on diet im doing based on goals-not all the time) so i tend to agree...

this is the part where the fact that i haven't cycled or used igf/hgh/insulin kinda leaves me with a weakness in my knowledge since i can't rely on firsthand experience, oh well, all in due time

**jimmyinkedup** · 01-08-2009, 12:15 AM

at any rate either way its really an interesting topic....now we should prob allow thread to get back OT *L*

**C_Bino** · 01-08-2009, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Phate

very informative, thank you, hopefully i'll be able to take some nutritional science courses this semester

Definitely should man. The world needs more people informed about proper nutrition.

And people will ALWAYS disagree, even the most knowledgeable people in nutrition who write the textbooks.

But you gotta try a few things for yourself and see what works and what doesnt. Take courses if you are able, read your texts and scientific reviews...and if you have the chance talk to people who look how you want to lol. Some dont know wtf they are doing but if you get high up competitors or pro's you can get good info from some.

I make suggestions to people based on all of those. And my suggestion to anyone I help is never use dextrose etc PWO. I wouldnt suggest using synthetic insulin either.

If I train 2 guys the same, and they both take the same calories from the same macro ratio and one uses dextrose PWO and one uses sweet potatoes or oats i can bet the one using dextrose isnt any bigger at the end of a year. He may be more bloated and be at higher risk for diabetes or have a decreased immune system tho lol.

**xnotoriousx** · 01-08-2009, 12:33 PM

Interesting. What sucks so bad about this is you get so many people (most credible) that tell you that the dextrose post work out is most beneficial. It's almost like flipping a coin if you ask me....

Alright then phate, just take out the carbs in an early meal- Add in the fish+flax and everything else is good?

**Phate** · 01-08-2009, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by xnotoriousx

Interesting. What sucks so bad about this is you get so many people (most credible) that tell you that the dextrose post work out is most beneficial. It's almost like flipping a coin if you ask me....

Alright then phate, just take out the carbs in an early meal- Add in the fish+flax and everything else is good?

yep, though really watch your body and see how this new diet affects it, cause only your body can tell you what is best for it, but this is a good base to start off with

**xnotoriousx** · 01-08-2009, 05:44 PM

I guess I should also get a scale so I can weigh my food and stop eye ballin it to huh?

Man ground beef/rice/spinach taste really damn good to me. Thanks for all the help guys, i'll stick with this for awhile and see where it gets me.

**xnotoriousx** · 01-11-2009, 06:24 PM

I just bought someSciFit BCAA powder and some NOW glutamine.

When should I take each of these in the day?

**Phate** · 01-11-2009, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by xnotoriousx

I just bought someSciFit BCAA powder and some NOW glutamine.

When should I take each of these in the day?

i take a mixture of caffeine, bcaas and glutamine before empty stomach cardio to fill my amino acid pool

**xnotoriousx** · 01-12-2009, 09:03 PM

Ahh that sounds nice, what do you use for the caffeine?

So putting BCAA in your post wo shake doesn't matter alot?

**Phate** · 01-13-2009, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by xnotoriousx

Ahh that sounds nice, what do you use for the caffeine?

So putting BCAA in your post wo shake doesn't matter alot?

i either use store brand caffeine pills or i use bulk caffeine powder, the powder seems to kick little harder and faster but it's really bitter

most protein powders already contain amino acids so from that standpoint it really wouldn't matter, plus the precursors that are also found in protein powders(like glutamic acid, which is converted to L-glutamine in the body) can fight for absorbtion with the amino acid

personally i would save it for other times in the day