Who think P Shakes or MR shakes count as a meal?

[Nate_Dog]

Not ****ing me!

Does anyone else get shitted off when they read.

M1. MR Shake.

M2. Chicken Rice and Veg.

M3. Shake

M4. Steak, Rice and Veg

M5. Pre workout shake

M6. Post workout shake.

etc etc

THEY ARE NOT MEALS.. .. they are chocolate flavoured SHAKES! A meal is food!

When I read this I feel like telling the guys -->

And it need to be said...




DROP THE SHAKE AND HAVE A STEAK

[Nate_Dog]

Warning - This is not aimed at anyone in particular just lazy ass people.

What about ********'s (which I love ********'s articles normally mind you etc)

The V-Diet? - WTF?

WTF is having 8 shakes or whatever a day... no actual real food. As if people are not lazy enough as it is.. and are looking for quick fixes.. without this?

I understand it is controlled calories etc... but what about healthy food.. eating well.. dieting.., chewing and FIBER? etc?

This encourages lazy lay people to just enjoy shakes and not actually learn good life and diet skills. So what are they going to drink shakes all their ****ing life? WTF? Good one Chad W, give yourself an uppercut.

I love training and I love commitment and hardwork. This type of lazy crap is the reason I decided not to be a personal trainer after many years in the industry. Lazy people that don't want to do what it takes.. i can't stand it!!!

They want flavors like chocolate, strawberry, choc-strawberry, pineapple and other asstastic flavors... and food that tastes great and to be able to do what they want.. these are the same people that want to do crunches to get lean abs... (wont listen otherwise), do cardio before a weight session or think cardio is the only thing that gets you lean!

If you are really hardcore.. you don't need flavor or sweetners in your shakes... or a ****ing shake diet.. GROW THE **** UP!

Ok nuff said.

[(1*)]

um.... 300 + calories
50 + protein
i count that as a meal.

i mean, i only have one, maybe two depending on the day that are by themselves but the calories and protien and carbs (depending) are there.

[Phate]

um.... 300 + calories
50 + protein
i count that as a meal.

i mean, i only have one, maybe two depending on the day that are by themselves but the calories and protien and carbs (depending) are there.

what he means is that the difference between a shake and a whole food meal is monumental, think about all the things that aren't in the shake, phytonutrients, natural vitamins and minerals, loss of thermodynamic value, etc....

shakes aren't meals IMO, they are supplements, and what do supplements do? they aid you and serve as an addition to your meal plan but they don't make up for a lack thereof

[(1*)]

i understand that, which is why you don't depend on them but the preached reason to eat 6 + times a day is partly to keep the metabolism running at a higher rate and this does that for you just as food would. as long as you don't have a "liquid diet" then you still get the other nutrients and "natural" vitamins from the other 5 meals.
i dunno, i understand what's being said, i just feel it's a meal in a multi meal diet.

[DKU]

um.... 300 + calories
50 + protein
i count that as a meal.

i mean, i only have one, maybe two depending on the day that are by themselves but the calories and protien and carbs (depending) are there.

I agree.

[Phate]

i understand that, which is why you don't depend on them but the preached reason to eat 6 + times a day is partly to keep the metabolism running at a higher rate and this does that for you just as food would. as long as you don't have a "liquid diet" then you still get the other nutrients and "natural" vitamins from the other 5 meals.
i dunno, i understand what's being said, i just feel it's a meal in a multi meal diet.

i believe i read study that showed eating 6+ meals a day doesn't raise metabolism over 4 meals, but there are still a myriad reasons to eat many small meals

[AdamGH]

but there are still a myriad reasons to eat many small meals

control appetite and maintain steady mood through out the day.

i get the occasional shake from planet smoothie(health shake store around me) as a treat. otherwise, i stick to whole foods always.

[ace001]

I do my best to take in food at my meals but I always have 2 shakes in my cooler just in case. IMO better to have a shake that no meal..

[Phate]

I do my best to take in food at my meals but I always have 2 shakes in my cooler just in case. IMO better to have a shake that no meal..

definitely

[Nate_Dog]

[QUOTEwhat do supplements do? they aid you and serve as an addition to your meal plan but they don't make up for a lack thereof[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't count shakes as meal unless I was dieting or watching my calories.

I mean if you want to smash 6 meals a day with 6 shakes inbetween thus consuming 12 hits of protein and macronutrients great... IMO it is still only 6 meals.

I get tired of guys saying yeah I want to get big.. and then you find out that half there calories come from liquid not real food.

Put it this way.. I do not count the protein content of my rice and veggies into the total tally of daily protein consumed.

Follow me?

[Nate_Dog]

i believe i read study that showed eating 6+ meals a day doesn't raise metabolism over 4 meals, but there are still a myriad reasons to eat many small meals

I would be interested in the study.. do you have the journal details??... I can look it up through uni.

Thanks mate.

[Nate_Dog]

I do my best to take in food at my meals but I always have 2 shakes in my cooler just in case. IMO better to have a shake that no meal..

Oh in an emergency.. for sure. I hate that feeling of knowing you are over a meal time and there is no feed in sight.. Always good to have emergency protein - shakes, tinned tuna...

But I in my original rant I was meaning as a meal,.. everyday type a deal.

[(1*)]

lol. you seem much more relaxed nate. something or someone must have pissed you off earlier about protien shakes.

[Nate_Dog]

lol. you seem much more relaxed nate. something or someone must have pissed you off earlier about protien shakes.

I just read a post from a member with a very crap diet.. and asking about a hectic first cycle.. part of his diet was like 3 meals.. 4 shakes - in his mind 7 meals (or something crapola like that).

But yes i was a little hot headed..

[laduem88]

i have an internship this summer and im going to be eating 3 times while im at work so 1 whey & oats shake is a must

[jimmyinkedup]

call it whatever yuo want ......just make sure you count it towords your macros ...... shakes imo are supplementation not primary food sources ....

[bcbrett]

The only shakes I have are post workout and the odd one first thing in the am when I just cant do eggs yet.

[Phate]

I would be interested in the study.. do you have the journal details??... I can look it up through uni.

Thanks mate.

i can't find the one i read, but here's another, kinda

Do mini-meals fire up your "metabolism" (we should use the term "metabolic rate" anyway - "metabolism" is really so vague a term, even though it pushes all kinds of hot buttons).

Let's put it another way - if you are trying to "recomposition" your body to have a lower fat-to-muscle ratio, is it an advantageous practice to spread your meals for the day out to multiple "mini-feeds"?

Do 5 - 6 or more mini meals a day increase your metabolic rate as opposed to fewer meals per day of larger size each?

I've been researching the professional journals and papers for a several weeks and am ready to report in on my findings.

I'm taking a deep breath and am ready to launch!

This may be a bit lengthy, and is guaranteed to include some egghead sections (research abstract excerpts), so pop on your specs, grab a glass of your favorite hot (or cold) drink, and settle in.
What I Found Out

Perhaps the most significant journal paper I came across is a study on reported in the British Journal of Nutrition. This paper reviews "the epidemiological studies relating meal frequency to body weight, and attempts to integrate these with the results of physiological investigations on meal frequency and energy balance".

Simply put, this study investigates the question: is there evidence to support the prescription of multiple small meals daily as opposed to fewer, larger meals when it comes to inspiring a metabolic rate response that would impact weight? One of the strengths of this study is that it entails a review of the literature and results available from multiple studies.

[Reference: Bellisle F et. al. Meal frequency and energy balance. Br J Nutr. (1997) 77 (Suppl 1):S57-70.]

Guess what? Over a 24 hour period, apparently there IS no difference.

So, Why Do I Keep Getting Those Emails From "Pros" About Mini-Meals and Optimal "Metabolism"?

OK, maybe you keep getting these too.

If not, I'm sure you see them all over the web, in the news, and repeated-as-mantra from many corners of the fitness universe.

Frankly, I used to say it too.

But as I started getting more and more fired up about looking behind many of these commonly-held beliefs in my quest to find the simple truths that really are going to serve us - or not.

It is not hard to figure out how the mini-meals-and-metabolism ball got started on its roll.

You see, there actually IS a phenomenon called "Thermogenic Effect of Feeding" (TEF - yes, it even has its own official acronym). There IS a thermogenic - or heat producing (translation: stimulated metabolic rate) effect every time you eat. The extrapolation from this has been, well, then eat more often, get more thermogenic stimulation, right?

Not so fast.

According to the research, there is also a GREATER thermogenic effect from larger meals. If you take the 2, smaller minis and fewer larger (in the research they are referred to as "nibble" and "gorge"), over a 24 hour period there is no difference of thermogenic effect. The larger meals have a HIGHER overall thermogenic stimulating effect, the mini-meals have a smaller, though more frequent effect. As a matter of fact, overnight metabolic rate induction from fewer larger meals was strong.

Evidently it all comes out the same in the wash.

A detailed review of the possible mechanistic explanations for a metabolic advantage of nibbling meal patterns failed to reveal significant benefits in respect of energy expenditure. Although some short-term studies suggest that the thermic effect of feeding is higher when an isoenergetic test load is divided into multiple small meals, other studies refute this, and most are neutral.

More importantly, studies using whole-body calorimetry and doubly-labelled water to assess total 24h energy expenditure find no difference between nibbling and gorging. Finally, with the exception of a single study, there is no evidence that weight loss on hypoenergetic regimens is altered by meal frequency.

We conclude that any effects of meal pattern on the regulation of body weight are liely to be mediated through effects on the food intake side of the energy balance equation.

Interestingly, in studies (as reported in the same paper) report an inverse relationship between "nibbling" and reduced body fat, there were multiple other influences that mitigated the findings, i.e physical activity, smoking status, alcohol intake, meal under-reporting)

The above review paper examined not only earlier observational work but also direct studies of varying meal frequency on either metabolic rate or weight loss. With the exception of one poorly done study, no connection found between varying meal frequency and any of the examined parameters.

No increase in weight loss, no relative overall increase in metabolic rate, no nothing. Nada. Zip.

They concluded that earlier studies finding an effect of meal frequency on weight gain (or loss) had more to do with changes in appetite or food intake, not from any direct impact on metabolic rate.

For example, early observational studies discovered that people who skipped breakfast were heavier and this still resonates with conventional thought today idea that skipping breakfast makes you fatter. The review points out that this may be confusing cause and effect: people often start skipping meals to lose weight.
Then Why Have We Gotten The "Mini-Meal Metabolism" Story For So Long?

My answer to this is partly conjecture, partly supported by the scientific papers. Let's go with the scientifically supported first.

It is very difficult to monitor human subjects over a 24 hour period. Thus, monitoring effects of smaller meals, more frequently, has been a "friendlier" process, from a research point of view.

Second, marketing madness, I suspect, has played a big role here. What better opportunity for snack food companies, energy bar moguls, between-meal-shake folks, bodybuiding supplement companies, and every one else who wants us to buy their edibles?

(An interesting anecdote from my friend Brad Pilon, who researched meal timing metabolism extensively for his work Eat Stop Eat: Brad worked for several years in the food-supplement-for-body-builders industry and will be the first to tell you that one of their key marketing tools was to hook this what I call "partial information". More on Eat Stop Eat in 5 Reasons To Try Mini Fasts and Mini-Fasts: My 4 Month Report)
Am I Telling You To STOP The Mini Meal Schedule?

Of course not.

If you like the rhythm, and it suits your needs and is successful for you for a variety of reasons, do what works for you!

As a matter of fact, there ARE some reasons and circumstances in which mini meals may be the best choice, unrelated to TEF; that's the topic for another article.

But if you are doing the mini-meal routine because you understand that it provides advantageous metabolic rate boost, there just isn't the scientific evidence to support it.

[Nate_Dog]

Actually as an example - I have a friend that is also a trainer..

But a pretty shit one in all honesty, **** all range in squats etc etc. Lets call him a "fitball trainer". I am sure that will make sense.

Anyway my mate has ok size anyway,.. he has good genetics.. thick arms.. nice thick back etc... pretty well balanced body.

I remember when he came to me saying - "Man I want to put some size on, I am thinking about taking gear". I was like yeah gear works well.. no one can argue that... BUT hold up dude,.. lets look at your diet.

He was not eating enough... so I said "You eat like a ****ing girl, eat this this this and this, then come talk to me.. if you are still interested then i will give you some advice on gear" (this is not the first trainer I have said this too).

Surprise surprise the guy put on about 10 kgs and sat naturally in the mid to upper 90s and was not interested in gear.

Again people forget that food in the most anabolic things.

The reason I bitch is when I was young I didn't have access to intelligent people that stressed EATING, EATING, EATING, and then EATING A LITTLE MORE (No one also explained how expensive my food bill would be each week either) IF I did I would have been bigger quicker.. but I had to workout that shit myself and when I started to forcefully ram food down my throat, I watched my lifts and weight go up.

That is why I try to ram it down these newbie ****ers throats so they wake up sooner. Plus all the years I was training people and I got mainly the same thing - people thinking that you can self-medicate for the body they want (be it bigger or leaner) with not attention or discipline with diet.

[eatrainrest]

Actually as an example - I have a friend that is also a trainer..

But a pretty shit one in all honesty, **** all range in squats etc etc. Lets call him a "fitball trainer". I am sure that will make sense.

Anyway my mate has ok size anyway,.. he has good genetics.. thick arms.. nice thick back etc... pretty well balanced body.

I remember when he came to me saying - "Man I want to put some size on, I am thinking about taking gear". I was like yeah gear works well.. no one can argue that... BUT hold up dude,.. lets look at your diet.

He was not eating enough... so I said "You eat like a ****ing girl, eat this this this and this, then come talk to me.. if you are still interested then i will give you some advice on gear" (this is not the first trainer I have said this too).

Surprise surprise the guy put on about 10 kgs and sat naturally in the mid to upper 90s and was not interested in gear.

Again people forget that food in the most anabolic things.

The reason I bitch is when I was young I didn't have access to intelligent people that stressed EATING, EATING, EATING, and then EATING A LITTLE MORE (No one also explained how expensive my food bill would be each week either) IF I did I would have been bigger quicker.. but I had to workout that shit myself and when I started to forcefully ram food down my throat, I watched my lifts and weight go up.

That is why I try to ram it down these newbie ****ers throats so they wake up sooner. Plus all the years I was training people and I got mainly the same thing - people thinking that you can self-medicate for the body they want (be it bigger or leaner) with not attention or discipline with diet.

the majority of people are looking for a quick fix, but hey you cant blame them when they look at the kid with good genetics, drinks every night, is a drug addict, takes steroids and has no idea what hes doing and it works! talk to him when hes 40, if he's around. DIET IS EVERYTHING

[DangerDave]

Actually as an example - I have a friend that is also a trainer..

But a pretty shit one in all honesty, **** all range in squats etc etc. Lets call him a "fitball trainer". I am sure that will make sense.

Anyway my mate has ok size anyway,.. he has good genetics.. thick arms.. nice thick back etc... pretty well balanced body.

I remember when he came to me saying - "Man I want to put some size on, I am thinking about taking gear". I was like yeah gear works well.. no one can argue that... BUT hold up dude,.. lets look at your diet.

He was not eating enough... so I said "You eat like a ****ing girl, eat this this this and this, then come talk to me.. if you are still interested then i will give you some advice on gear" (this is not the first trainer I have said this too).

Surprise surprise the guy put on about 10 kgs and sat naturally in the mid to upper 90s and was not interested in gear.

Again people forget that food in the most anabolic things.

The reason I bitch is when I was young I didn't have access to intelligent people that stressed EATING, EATING, EATING, and then EATING A LITTLE MORE (No one also explained how expensive my food bill would be each week either) IF I did I would have been bigger quicker.. but I had to workout that shit myself and when I started to forcefully ram food down my throat, I watched my lifts and weight go up.

That is why I try to ram it down these newbie ****ers throats so they wake up sooner. Plus all the years I was training people and I got mainly the same thing - people thinking that you can self-medicate for the body they want (be it bigger or leaner) with not attention or discipline with diet.

so true. Problem is the entire industry is run by supplement companies promising sups that provide the quick fixes that people crave. People think: why do I need to eat right when this meal replacement shake promises massive size gains. For years I was a serious lifter and never made the gains I wanted cos I knew nothing about diet. I was drinking creatine and natural test boosters long before I bought my first shake.

These companies make the layman think that a shake is muscles in a 5 kg tub. I do consulting work for one of these companies so I see this ignorance first hand. Im really beginning to hate this industry cos as Nate says people are lazy and are always looking for quick fixes. Makes my job so unsatisfying cos as soon as people begin to realise the work involved in achieving their goals they give up. Anyway this thread just got me hot and bothered

[jamyjamjr]

i see people do 3-4 shakes a day when i tweak diets... it's a horrible practice, one that i do not condone... just the fact that it doesn't do squat for your metabolism alone is reason enough for me to shy away from it...

[Bio-boosted]

Posted by ace001
I do my best to take in food at my meals but I always have 2 shakes in my cooler just in case. IMO better to have a shake that no meal..

Phate
definitely

+1. Saves me a little hassle a few times a week

[Nate_Dog]

It is just human nature.. (not mine).. but the majority.

I don't eat shit food, don't do dairy (except in the form of whey in a Post Training shake), I don't eat gluten .. as my body doesn't like them (digestion doesn't like it) For carbs I love my rice. For protein I mix it up.. you name it everything elk, kangaroo, duck, whatever but pork (bacon is cool). This type of eating works well with my genetics..

I am a believer in a lot of Poliquins principles, as out of the 8 years I have been professionally involved in the industry he seems to have touched on everything, natural therapies, alternative med, conventional med, drug induced performance enhancement, chiro, applied kinesiology, you name it.. the guy is well thought out. I was reading a book that I was told to before one of his courses - "The Paleo diet". This book says basically that human being for have only had agriculture and grains in our diets for a very short span of time (when looking out the total time we have been humans). Most people are not carb adapted and get fat from them etc (as an example - Asians etc are an exception to the rule, but are adjusted to rice as opposed to wheat catbs etc). Anyways.. one of the things he says for fat people is "Eats like a caveman". That is the best advice you can give someone...

And I used to say something simular - "Eat what your great-grandmar would have eaten 100 years ago, good natural food".

That is the easy thing to say to someone when dieting. Could a caveman eat burgers? Pasta? Sauses? Iceceam? Peanut butter? Rice? no no no no no.

Could they eat fresh fish, other sources of protein, fresh vegies and fruits yes! This is pretty easy protocol to follow.

But after years - I don't say anything anymore to fat people.

But you cannot always tell. I had a client that was female, 5 foot and was 90 kgs. I have trained fat people and they are always lame and full of excuses. You train them hard once you never see them again. BUT this chic, first session... she went hard.. not 20% not 50% not 80% she went 110%. I thought she was going to die.. but she trucked on. She was a cool chic and actually is now one of my best friends, a real quality human being, she lost 30 kgs when i trained her. BUT WHY - SHE WAS ACCOUNTABLE and she looked at her behaviour, choices and emotional responses and made changes. THIS IS VERY RARE. You shouldn't judge a book by its cover but pretty quickly you will know what someone is about. And she is the ONLY example of this that I have personally come across.

For example -

There is this old dude 60 or so... living in the house with my parents in law here in Spain... he asks all the time about diet.. and my wife in the beginning loved giving advice.. saying this that this that. I clearly said DON'T BOTHER... but my wife didn't listen..

Today she said "I am not telling that guy anything anymore.. he eats shit... i tell him what to do.. he continues to eat shit, he just tells me why he can't eat clean. But then still wants to have regular conversations about dieting." "When we told him to eat only things that HIS BODY responds well to" he stated - "But my body likes it." My wife said "No your tounge likes it.. your body doesn't like it, if your body liked it you wouldn't be fat!"

That is why the gym info sits there on his desk in spite of the fact that the gym is ACROSS THE ROAD (about 50m, no shit) (and has everything, you name it).

The funny thing is I said to my wife - try 8 years of that shit.. and see if you start to hate people. I love training, I love committed people. I live for the shit. But I hate lazy people. I have trouble when peoples mouth is our of balance with their commitment.

Like my mate.. he has one of the best physiques i know of.. and his mum is fat.. she does these ****ed crash diets all the time and lasts about a week. She doesn't listen to her son. One day I said "What is the deal with your Mum bro"? He said "Dude she has been doing it all my life, I just don't ****ing bother anymore".

And that is how I feel, I don't bother. If the person has some commitment in spite of knowing **** all and having shit training principles and diet. You will see them bashing away at it.. trying to learn and improve.. etc.

I try to be a balanced human being... Eg I look good, I am in good shape.. but I am studying IT at Uni. No need to be a massive dumb ass or a skinny geek.

BUT no matter what - I hate mediocrity and excuses.

Nate.

so true. Problem is the entire industry is run by supplement companies promising sups that provide the quick fixes that people crave. People think: why do I need to eat right when this meal replacement shake promises massive size gains. For years I was a serious lifter and never made the gains I wanted cos I knew nothing about diet. I was drinking creatine and natural test boosters long before I bought my first shake.

These companies make the layman think that a shake is muscles in a 5 kg tub. I do consulting work for one of these companies so I see this ignorance first hand. Im really beginning to hate this industry cos as Nate says people are lazy and are always looking for quick fixes. Makes my job so unsatisfying cos as soon as people begin to realise the work involved in achieving their goals they give up. Anyway this thread just got me hot and bothered

[eatrainrest]

It is just human nature.. (not mine).. but the majority.

I don't eat shit food, don't do dairy (except in the form of whey in a Post Training shake), I don't eat gluten .. as my body doesn't like them (digestion doesn't like it) For carbs I love my rice. For protein I mix it up.. you name it everything elk, kangaroo, duck, whatever but pork (bacon is cool). This type of eating works well with my genetics..

I am a believer in a lot of Poliquins principles, as out of the 8 years I have been professionally involved in the industry he seems to have touched on everything, natural therapies, alternative med, conventional med, drug induced performance enhancement, chiro, applied kinesiology, you name it.. the guy is well thought out. I was reading a book that I was told to before one of his courses - "The Paleo diet". This book says basically that human being for have only had agriculture and grains in our diets for a very short span of time (when looking out the total time we have been humans). Most people are not carb adapted and get fat from them etc (as an example - Asians etc are an exception to the rule, but are adjusted to rice as opposed to wheat catbs etc). Anyways.. one of the things he says for fat people is "Eats like a caveman". That is the best advice you can give someone...

And I used to say something simular - "Eat what your great-grandmar would have eaten 100 years ago, good natural food".

That is the easy thing to say to someone when dieting. Could a caveman eat burgers? Pasta? Sauses? Iceceam? Peanut butter? Rice? no no no no no.

Could they eat fresh fish, other sources of protein, fresh vegies and fruits yes! This is pretty easy protocol to follow.

But after years - I don't say anything anymore to fat people.

But you cannot always tell. I had a client that was female, 5 foot and was 90 kgs. I have trained fat people and they are always lame and full of excuses. You train them hard once you never see them again. BUT this chic, first session... she went hard.. not 20% not 50% not 80% she went 110%. I thought she was going to die.. but she trucked on. She was a cool chic and actually is now one of my best friends, a real quality human being, she lost 30 kgs when i trained her. BUT WHY - SHE WAS ACCOUNTABLE and she looked at her behaviour, choices and emotional responses and made changes. THIS IS VERY RARE. You shouldn't judge a book by its cover but pretty quickly you will know what someone is about. And she is the ONLY example of this that I have personally come across.

For example -

There is this old dude 60 or so... living in the house with my parents in law here in Spain... he asks all the time about diet.. and my wife in the beginning loved giving advice.. saying this that this that. I clearly said DON'T BOTHER... but my wife didn't listen..

Today she said "I am not telling that guy anything anymore.. he eats shit... i tell him what to do.. he continues to eat shit, he just tells me why he can't eat clean. But then still wants to have regular conversations about dieting." "When we told him to eat only things that HIS BODY responds well to" he stated - "But my body likes it." My wife said "No your tounge likes it.. your body doesn't like it, if your body liked it you wouldn't be fat!"

That is why the gym info sits there on his desk in spite of the fact that the gym is ACROSS THE ROAD (about 50m, no shit) (and has everything, you name it).

The funny thing is I said to my wife - try 8 years of that shit.. and see if you start to hate people. I love training, I love committed people. I live for the shit. But I hate lazy people. I have trouble when peoples mouth is our of balance with their commitment.

Like my mate.. he has one of the best physiques i know of.. and his mum is fat.. she does these ****ed crash diets all the time and lasts about a week. She doesn't listen to her son. One day I said "What is the deal with your Mum bro"? He said "Dude she has been doing it all my life, I just don't ****ing bother anymore".

And that is how I feel, I don't bother. If the person has some commitment in spite of knowing **** all and having shit training principles and diet. You will see them bashing away at it.. trying to learn and improve.. etc.

I try to be a balanced human being... Eg I look good, I am in good shape.. but I am studying IT at Uni. No need to be a massive dumb ass or a skinny geek.

BUT no matter what - I hate mediocrity and excuses.

Nate.

i feel the SAME EXACT WAY, i have a client who refuses to work at 100% intensity because "she cant'". well best advice is the client is always right? she repeatedly asks if she can be fit by december.. why december i have no friggin clue, but lets be serious. if you halfass the workouts im giving you what the hell makes you think your going to see results? then i have another client who busts her ass and lost 7 pounds, 7% body fat in 7 weeks and got alot stronger and leaner. people are just fvckin lazy

[Nate_Dog]

I used to have one... get this. She trained at Bondi beach in the morning. Awesome setting, sun cranking on the beach, a hive of activity, people exercising, working out, looking good.

She would come late, up to 15mins (it used to shit me but then I just decided to watch people surf) This was in spite of the fact that she lived about 300ms from where I trainer her (mind you in the 1 day I was late she complained).

She would sometimes be hungover. I used to make her do hill sprints (nothing crazy as the hill wasn't that steep) Instead of sprinting she would potter her ass up the incline. I noticed she kept looking to the right and I was thinking is she checking out some guy,.. like WTF is she looking at? So I said "At the top of the hill WTF are you looking at". She said "Oh I am looking at the clock". 15 minutes late, been there for only 15 minutes, and looking at the clock. When I would get her to do some abs at the end she would say "Why can't we do more Abs, I want to get my tummy leaner". DUHHH YOU DUMB ****ING BITCH.. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE A TOLD YOU THAT YOU CANT SPOT REDUCE?? She liked doing piss ant crunches because they were easy. In the end I hated her.. but I sold out for cash and trained the dumb bitch anyway. But this is a key element to the oncoming of my hatered of PT. So it is not good to do. Useless ****s well always be useless ****s.

IMO Virgo females are all useless clients. I will sus out if they are a virgo female and if they are I won't train them.. they are ****ed up.. they complain to much, they hate working hard. THEY ARE ****ING WHINGERS (they are never happy and take little responsibility). I don't know if people believe in that, but that is one pattern I have noticed. Also Sagittarius females are awesome.. (like my wife) all female Sagittariuses I have trained are friendly, interested, keen to train, love to be trained and you can train the absolute ass out of them. And they absolutely love it.

Actually I might start a useless **** client thread. As I am sure we would get some interesting stories.. it maybe therapudic!

<--- love that smilie lately.. as I have been ranting lots!

[DangerDave]

exact same shit here, just from a different perspective. Working in the sup industry and doing consulting work I have hundreds of people coming to me asking: 'How do I get big? what sups can I take?'. I always talk diet and they look at me with this blank look and say: 'yea yea but what sups will get me big'. Drives me so crazy. Over the last couple of months my sales have been reduced to almost nothing cos I dont like selling crap to people who are looking for quick fixes and wont do what it takes.

Like I wont sell a fat burner to a fat person, whats the point? they still gonna be wolfing down the same old crap. I am now desperately looking for another part time job, something more in my line of studies and way out of the sup indusry

[DangerDave]

like a mate of mine phoned me today and said that his friend was in a car accident a while ago and needs a sup to help him build his body again but isnt interested in any exercise. GGRRRR!!!

[JAZZBBCC]

I was training to be a personal trainer before giving it up all together for that exact reason!
I got sick and tired of putting my time and effort into a program for someone else that would be set aside, collect dust and never be used. People have every excuse out there why they can't do it. All we can do is let it slide! I know your venting but think about the am's of this site! Take a breath or maybe a vacation but don't let it impact your life. I share your frustration dude! Good luck!

[Nate_Dog]

I used to have to do a certain percentage of programming for the gym that I used to PT out of. There was a member Craig and he used to come in for program updates every 6 weeks. I looked at his last two programs, and they were written by a colleague that programs practically exactly as I did. I observed that there had been no progression in the load, the guy had not up'd the weights. I said "look you need to up the weight if you want to progress, it is part of the stimulus your body needs to respond and get bigger". Get this he said "But I get sore". I said "yes that is good, DOMS is a good thing, it is part of the process", you need to get sore". He said "Well if I first got bigger then I wouldn't mind getting sore". I laughed and "said sorry buddy after the soreness comes the size, not the other way around. You need to put into the work to reap the benefits".

I just wrote out a new program and give it to him,.. why bother wasting air talking to him.

--

DangerDave.. bro **** them, sell them the supps anyway. It is not like it is gear or you are promising miracles, you are being honest there is not issues with that. So don't shoot yourself in the foot. If the product works.. sell that.. what they do with it is not your issue. Just state this is a supplement, not a miracle in a bottle. Say that you, and the supplement are not their fairy god mother that has come to change them from a pumpkin into a princess. There are no fairy tales in our lifestyles - Just hard work, sweat and tears. If they think otherwise, never mind, **** them! Let their stupidity pay for your lifestyle and fill your fridge with heaps of food. As for the moron friend that called you, that would have pissed me off. I would have asked if his mate got brain damage in the accident. When he said no. I would have said... oh well he is just a dumb **** then.. well i am just sorry no supplement can help a dumb ****.

[Nate_Dog]

I was training to be a personal trainer before giving it up all together for that exact reason!
I got sick and tired of putting my time and effort into a program for someone else that would be set aside, collect dust and never be used. People have every excuse out there why they can't do it. All we can do is let it slide! I know your venting but think about the am's of this site! Take a breath or maybe a vacation but don't let it impact your life. I share your frustration dude! Good luck!

I only train my misses now and only talk to people about training that are on the same level.

I am now studying IT at uni.. I hate PT. I love training but I hate PT... if i did it I could only train athletes people that are willing to vomit whilst training.

The funny thing is now everyone wants to be a PT.. and you look at them and you wonder if they even train? I was doing a biosignature course and everyone had to state why they were there. When it got to a trainer that was well, a bit fat... he said " Hi I am Joe, I am here from Dallas (or something) and I want to learn this for my clients to help get them leaner". In front of everyone, Poliquin said - "What about yourself?". That is why I love that guy, he is raw.. no bullshit, to the point. It is true what image does it say when a fat trainer is trying to get other people lean. The industry is a joke. When I was working in Canada for a year I was appalled with the ****ing crap standard of trainers.. and I was training in a very upper market gym in Toronto.. with supposedly the best trainers in the city. I laughed.. people getting their client to do deadlifts when there backs were arched like a ****ing rainbow.. just horrible stuff. And no science behind anything.. that was the final period that I did PT, I just lost all respect for the industry.

The industry is mainly full of jokers, that know **** all about training themselves let alone about other people... these days everyone is a trainer..

In this example -- >(I actually liked this guy as a mate - but as a trainer he was a shocker)... --> I came in from a hectic legs session and I was very hypoglycemic, I was very pale and feeling like I was going to vomit. I laid down in the floor of the PT room. This guy said "Man you look horrible". I said, "I just trained really ****ing hard and I feel really sick". He said "Man will all the drugs (party stuff not gear) it is lucky I don't train at all or I might be really ****ed up". I couldn't believe he said that... I said "Jesus WTF you are a trainer!" Anyway.. I actually like the guy personally he was a funny Canadian.. but like a said as a trainer.. wtf would he know about training!!??!

[JAZZBBCC]

I agree with you wanting to only train athletes because that is what I told my girlfriend would be the only thing I could see myself doing! Dealing with people who want to succeed and are willing to pay the price to get there. That's where I want to be. I use the analogy of a guy who plants trees, he doesn't just sell them he wants them to grow and be healthy. It's the same with a trainer especially when the client is to f$%^&g lazy to workout intense enough to get results. I always thought it would reflect me as a trainer! And I agree with you about the quality of trainers. I had a membership to a gym a couple of years back and saw the owner of the gym working with a female client who was about 40 +/- overweight. The owner was using roids which I didn't care less " he looked great" but he had this girl maxing out on a leg press with a weight she could barely move for 6 reps as he would push up the weight to assist her he would look in the mirror at his arms. Amazing! I hear ya man ! Keep your chin up!

[LizzardSecond]

I only have three shakes a day. A total of 3.5 scoops a day. I take liquid egg whites.

7am 1st meal: 1 cup of oatmeal in water. 6 egg whites and 1 scoop of whey. 53g of protein.

7pm 6th meal: 12 egg whites and 1 scoop of whey. 64g of protein

11pm 8th meal: 12 egg whites and 1.5 scoops of casein. 77g of protein

At the end of the day I get tired of eating so i consume alot of egg whites. My other meals consist of poultry, bison, fish and complex carbohydrates like brown rice, whole grain pasta and green vegetables.

I feel there a meal, but you must be consuming other food to obtain vitamins and nutrients food provides you with.

5 food meals and 3 food/shake meals a day should be the max. Anything more than that and your wasting your money.

[amostofi1999]

i cant eat right after workouts. i feel weak but have no appetite...my only option is 2 scoops of whey some cold milk and bananas.
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check this video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmKQdJFE8XU
the guy eats whey, weight gainer, milk and multivitamins ONLY and he is doing fine really.

[inheritmylife]

i cant eat right after workouts. i feel weak but have no appetite...my only option is 2 scoops of whey some cold milk and bananas.
------
check this video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmKQdJFE8XU
the guy eats whey, weight gainer, milk and multivitamins ONLY and he is doing fine really.

That's fine. A shake after a workout is not what is in question, it's having the bulk of one's diet consist of liquid calories.

This is an old thread by the way, but I guess it probably could use a bump.

...and I looked better untrained than that poor kid does. At that age he should be 12% bodyfat tops. He's knocking on the door of 20%.

[FireGuy]

I know this thread is old but, to address the OP's question/statement. Whether or not you count them as a meal is not relavent but you do need to count the macros against your daily allottment. Just cause you are drinking the calories doesnt mean they dont count.

[**TOP**]

I know this thread is old but, to address the OP's question/statement. Whether or not you count them as a meal is not relavent but you do need to count the macros against your daily allottment. Just cause you are drinking the calories doesnt mean they dont count.

This is the only answer that will make sense in this whole thread! Bottom line is anything that has macros in it that goes in your mouth is counted! PERIOD!

After re-reading the ops statement,i think he was going for a quality over quantity session! If thats true i do agree with him. Although shakes are a great way to fill in the gaps they will never be a substitute for the real thing.

[Narkissos]

i cant eat right after workouts. i feel weak but have no appetite...my only option is 2 scoops of whey some cold milk and bananas.
------
check this video out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmKQdJFE8XU
the guy eats whey, weight gainer, milk and multivitamins ONLY and he is doing fine really.

That's not all Kyle eats.

He posts on MD as YoungGuns... Go check what he really eats.

[Narkissos]

I know this thread is old but, to address the OP's question/statement. Whether or not you count them as a meal is not relavent but you do need to count the macros against your daily allottment. Just cause you are drinking the calories doesnt mean they dont count.

Agreed.

Personally I avoid threads like these, because everybody seems to think their way is the only way.

I've consumed liquid diets both off-season and pre-contest without an issue.

For students on a budget, protein shakes (+ complex carbs) is generally cheaper than meat. I competed straight through highschool and most of college on a student (+part-time job) budget.

I count every gram of every thing I consume.

It all counts.