Keto diet

[eatrainrest]

ok so i have the diet configured at a good cutting caloric range for me and starting off scaling at 60% fats (EFA's) and 40% protein, will cut back on fats if i have to. anyway, my questions are.

1-is it ok to take NO- SHOTGUN preworkout? i have enough left over to last 4 weeks and want to use it especially because energy will be low while i fight to get into ketosis, its zero carb and 20g protein, creatine.

2-for PWO shake, im taking isopure and should i take an EFA along with this or just straight whey? again, im not a fan of using whey as opposed to food but i have enough to run me through so im going to get rid of it so when i bulk again i stick to my supps.

your thoughts? im on my 3rd week on carb cycling so far down about 1-2 lbs gotten slilghtly stronger and am starting to cut back 2 carb up days to 1 carb up day with around 400-500g carbs on leg day. workout days are about 150g and non workout days are about 120g carbs.

[Phate]

ok so i have the diet configured at a good cutting caloric range for me and starting off scaling at 60% fats (EFA's) and 40% protein, will cut back on fats if i have to. anyway, my questions are.

1-is it ok to take NO- SHOTGUN preworkout? i have enough left over to last 4 weeks and want to use it especially because energy will be low while i fight to get into ketosis, its zero carb and 20g protein, creatine.
does it contain aspartame or citric acid, both of these can knock some people out of ketosis
2-for PWO shake, im taking isopure and should i take an EFA along with this or just straight whey? again, im not a fan of using whey as opposed to food but i have enough to run me through so im going to get rid of it so when i bulk again i stick to my supps.
depends, are you going to run a standard keto, TKD, or CKD?
your thoughts? im on my 3rd week on carb cycling so far down about 1-2 lbs gotten slilghtly stronger and am starting to cut back 2 carb up days to 1 carb up day with around 400-500g carbs on leg day. workout days are about 150g and non workout days are about 120g carbs.

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[eatrainrest]

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im going to look into the aspartame component of the supps, the whey has splenda would this havfe a similiar effect with regard to all artificial sweeteneers? also, im running ronnies carb cycling/keto. it consists of as metnioend 60 fats 40 protein, with 1 day carb up no more than 3 meals.

[Phate]

im going to look into the aspartame component of the supps, the whey has splenda would this havfe a similiar effect with regard to all artificial sweeteneers? also, im running ronnies carb cycling/keto. it consists of as metnioend 60 fats 40 protein, with 1 day carb up no more than 3 meals.

that's a CKD and no, i don't believe splenda has the same effect

have you gotten some ketostix yet, they aren't completely reliable but a good baseline for most people

i would get lyle mcdonald's book, "the ketogenic diet", great read and cites over 600 studies

[eatrainrest]

i havent gotten anything really sorted out other than the diet, im going to post up a final version in this post when i have it up and will have you as well as others take a peek.

[british bulldog 1]

keto is a terrible diet and it makes your breath stink...........the women will love you, not!!

[Phate]

keto is a terrible diet and it makes your breath stink...........the women will love you, not!!

if you're going to make a blanket statement(and a wrong one at that), post why you think it's terrible and back up what you are saying, keto diets, like all diets, work very well if done correctly but work differently than pro/carb/fat

[eatrainrest]

yea seriously...

[(1*)]

i have been on keto and LOVE it. loosing body fat and muscles are harder. i am in my 4th week and still playing the macros on carbs to figure out what my body can take.
i started with a 36 hour carb up. thought it was a bit much and went down to a 24 hour carb up. still thought it was a bit much so i'm going to do about a 12 hour carb up this saturday. you should do atleast 2 weeks with no carbs to start. walmart has the cheapest ketostix that i have found. plus you don't have to ask the pharmacist for them, which is time consuming.

i have heard many say that they get stinky piss and a foul taste in their mouth but i have not gotten any of these. although it completely cleared up my zits

[Phate]

i have been on keto and LOVE it. loosing body fat and muscles are harder. i am in my 4th week and still playing the macros on carbs to figure out what my body can take.
i started with a 36 hour carb up. thought it was a bit much and went down to a 24 hour carb up. still thought it was a bit much so i'm going to do about a 12 hour carb up this saturday. you should do atleast 2 weeks with no carbs to start. walmart has the cheapest ketostix that i have found. plus you don't have to ask the pharmacist for them, which is time consuming.

i have heard many say that they get stinky piss and a foul taste in their mouth but i have not gotten any of these. although it completely cleared up my zits

if your piss doesn't have a distinct smell to it then the ketostix probably aren't going to help you as much, the smell in the urine is due to excess ketones being excreted and they produce a very distinct odor, but if they aren't being excreted in the urine then the ketostix can't pick up on them and might read your keto level low

[(1*)]

it does register on the stix. maybe i just don't smell it. i dunno. it has taken me till tuesday to start showing some after carb ups on saturday and i have gotten to about 60 for my highest reading. anyhow, since you are here.... what's your recommendation on the carb up as far as time to do it and amount of carbs. i have been between 400 and 500 each time.
also, some have told me that PWO with 16g carb won't hurt me. do you know about this?

[Phate]

it does register on the stix. maybe i just don't smell it. i dunno. it has taken me till tuesday to start showing some after carb ups on saturday and i have gotten to about 60 for my highest reading. anyhow, since you are here.... what's your recommendation on the carb up as far as time to do it and amount of carbs. i have been between 400 and 500 each time.
also, some have told me that PWO with 16g carb won't hurt me. do you know about this?

well there are two type of ketogenic diet that use carbs

TKD used carbs pre and post workout to aid in weight lifting and CKD uses a supercompensation refeed once a week to overfill glycogen stores, followed by cardio and a total body workout to drop back into ketosis

i'm about to do a write up on how to plan your workouts to drop glycogen stores in the muscle from normal levels(around 110mmol/kg) or from supercompensation levels(150mmol/kg) to total exhaustion levels (30mmol/kg) by figuring out the amount of sets and reps per exercise needed to drop the muscle group to the desired energy level

then when you do your refeed you use your calculated levels of glycogen depletion to figure the amount of carbs you need

400-500 is good for a good sized bodybuilder but when i get that writeup done you should be able to figure it pretty exactly

[eatrainrest]

Breakfast
-36g egg white protein (6 servings) (180)
-top with 1tbsp almond oil (130)
-2 tbsp peanut butter (200)
Total cal-510/pro-43/carb-13/fat-31

Meal 2-

6 oz. grilled chicken (180)
1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (130)
Total cal-310/pro-39/fat-15.5

POST WORKOUT SHAKE
2 scoops isopure (210)
Pro-50g
Fat-1
Total cal-210/pro-50/fat-1

Refeed PWO meal

2 tbsp peanut butter (200)
4 oz. turkey breast (120)
1 tbsp olive oil (130)
Total cal-450/pro-26/fat-32/carb-6

Meal 5
1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (130)
6 oz. turkey (180)
Total cal-310/pro-39/fat-15.5

Meal 6
6 oz. tuna (180)
3g fish oil (30)
1 tbsp olive oil (260)

Total cal-470/pro-39/fat-20

Meal 7
6 oz. London broil (280)
pro-37
fat-13
3g fish oil (30)
Fat-3
Total calories-310/pro-37/fat-16

DAILY TOTALS
Calories-2570
Pro-273
Fat-131
Carb-19

Off day calories- (eliminate PWO MEAL)
TOTAL CALS-212O
TOTAL FAT-99
TOTAL PRO-247
TOTAL CARB-13

1 CHEAT DAY**** 200-600+G CARBS
BREAKFAST-
1.25 cups oatmeal pancakes and banana
Meal 2-cheat meal of some pasta probably
MEAL 3 Small escarole and beans with pasta and bread
-buffalo chicken wrap
Meal 4
1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (130)
6 oz. turkey (180)
Total cal-310/pro-39/fat-15.5
Meal 5
6 oz. tuna (180)
3g fish oil (30)
1 tbsp olive oil (260)
Total cal-470/pro-39/fat-20
Meal 6
6 oz. London broil (280)
pro-37
fat-13
3g fish oil (30)
Fat-3

PHATE, NEED YOUR THOUGHTS BUD

[eatrainrest]

my baseline is more protein than fats... what are good percentages using this kind of keto? caloric range is fine but i think i need to add more fat and a little less protein. thought?s

[Phate]

my baseline is more protein than fats... what are good percentages using this kind of keto? caloric range is fine but i think i need to add more fat and a little less protein. thought?s

i agree, i'll look over it when i get back from cardio, but you have to remember that too much protein can push you out of ketosis as well

[eatrainrest]

i agree, i'll look over it when i get back from cardio, but you have to remember that too much protein can push you out of ketosis as well

thats why i specifically asked for you bud, lol. i have no experience running any type of keto diet, nor have i done any extensive reasearch on it other than through this forum.

[Phate]

thats why i specifically asked for you bud, lol. i have no experience running any type of keto diet, nor have i done any extensive reasearch on it other than through this forum.

i've never run one either, but like i said, i just read that 350pg book on it so i think i'm pretty versed in most of the mechanics behind it, i'm gonna skim over the book again tonight to make sure i'm giving you the right info

[eatrainrest]

i've never run one either, but like i said, i just read that 350pg book on it so i think i'm pretty versed in most of the mechanics behind it, i'm gonna skim over the book again tonight to make sure i'm giving you the right info

thanks bro

[D7M]

I can tell you right off the bat you probably have way too much fat in your meal 1 on training days.

I forget your stats, but I'm pretty sure you won't need 1 tbsp oil, and 2 tbsp of natty pb.

[eatrainrest]

I can tell you right off the bat you probably have way too much fat in your meal 1 on training days.

I forget your stats, but I'm pretty sure you won't need 1 tbsp oil, and 2 tbsp of natty pb.

i was about to PM you about this diet lol, glad you chimed in

stats-

5'9
170 lbs
12%

[D7M]

^yep. no way you need that much fat in one sitting, bro.

spread it out.

any questions...ask away...

[eatrainrest]

^yep. no way you need that much fat in one sitting, bro.

spread it out.

any questions...ask away...

ok, for my PWO shake, should i just throw the 2 tbsp PB, that would even my fat out throughout the rest of my meals i believe. also, should i baseline it 60% fats and 40% protein or do my macros look ok.. i think i should decrease protein slightly and possibly add another tbsp of EVO somewhere...does the diet look ok

[D7M]

I'm half awake.

will look over it more closely tomorrow...

[Phate]

okay bro, sorry but i won't be able to critique it tonight, i just blew a blood vessel in my damn eye again so i'm having trouble reading these threads, much less trying to read that book, i'll try to get to it tomorrow if my eye is better

in my meantime you have derek7m and i sent pms to two other members who are very versed in ketos and are on them right now so you should have a good bit of advice coming your way in my stead

[eatrainrest]

okay bro, sorry but i won't be able to critique it tonight, i just blew a blood vessel in my damn eye again so i'm having trouble reading these threads, much less trying to read that book, i'll try to get to it tomorrow if my eye is better

in my meantime you have derek7m and i sent pms to two other members who are very versed in ketos and are on them right now so you should have a good bit of advice coming your way in my stead

thanks man, im going to provide yous wiht a revised diet also coming soon.

[eatrainrest]

ok here is the diet, i have qeustions also.

- i counted broccoli for the purposes of a calorie is a calore. should i count this toward my carb intake? i laid it out to be simple. my baseline isnt quite 60/40 but if you could take a look and see where i could make changes, or it may look good on its own.

***********KETO DIET-4 weeks

Breakfast
-30g egg white protein (5 servings) (150)
-top with 1tbsp almond oil (130)

-8g fish oil caps (80)

-1 cup broccoli (30)

Total cal-390/pro-30/ fat-22/carb-9

Meal 2-

6 oz. grilled chicken (180)

1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (130)

7 fish oil caps (70)

1 cup broccoli (30)
Total cal-410/pro-39/fat-22.5/carb-4

POST WORKOUT SHAKE

1 scoop isopure (105)
Pro-25g
Fat-.5
Total cal-105/pro-25/fat-.5

Refeed PWO meal

4 oz. turkey breast (120)
1 tbsp EVO (130)
1 tbsp PB (100)
2 cups broccoli (60)
Total cal-410/pro-29.5/fat-23.5/carb-11.5

Meal 5

1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (130)
4 oz. turkey (120)
2 cups broccoli (60)
8 fish oil caps (80)

Total cal-390/pro-26/fat-23.5/carb-8

Meal 6
1 tbsp olive oil (130)
4 servings egg whites (130)
1 tbsp PB (100)
1 cup broccoli (30)

Total cal-390/pro-27.5/fat-22.5/carb-7.5

MEAL 7

4 oz. tuna (120)
6g fish oil (60)
1 tbsp olive oil (130)

TOTAL CALORIES-310/pro-26/fat-21.5

Meal 8

6 oz. London broil (280)
pro-37
fat-13

10g fish oil (100)
Fat-10

Total calories-380/pro-37/fat-23

DAILY TOTALS

Calories-2785 (broccoli accounts for 210 calories) so 2575 total kcal
Pro-240
Fat-160
Carb-40g (if counting broccoli)


OFF DAYS DIET

Off day calories-
TOTAL CALS-2250 (broccoli accounts for 150 calories)
TOTAL FAT-107.5
TOTAL PRO-245
TOTAL CARB-29g (counting broccoli)

Breakfast
-30g egg white protein (5 servings) (150)

-top with 1tbsp almond oil (130)

-6g fish oil caps (60)

-1 cup broccoli (30)

Total cal-370/pro-30/ fat-20/carb-9

Meal 2-
6 oz. grilled chicken (180)

1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (130)

1 cup broccoli (30)

Total cal-340/pro-39/fat-15.5/carb-4

MEAL 3

2 SCOOPS ISOPURE (210)

9g fish oil (90)

Total calories-290/pro-50/fat-10

Meal 3

4 oz. turkey (180)

2 cups broccoli (60)

9 fish oil caps (90)

Total cal-330/pro-26/fat-10/carb-8
Meal 4
1 tbsp olive oil (130)

4 servings egg whites (130)

1 cup broccoli (30)

3g fish oil (30)

Total cal-320/pro-24/fat-17/carb-8

MEAL 5

6 oz. tuna (180)
1 tbsp olive oil (130)

TOTAL CALORIES-250/pro-39/fat-17

Meal 6
6 oz. London broil (280)
pro-37
fat-13

6g fish oil (60)
Fat-6
Total calories-340/pro-37/fat-19








1 CHEAT DAY**** 200-600+G CARBS
BREAKFAST-
1.25 cups oatmeal pancakes and banana
Meal 2-cheat meal of some pasta probably
MEAL 3 Small escarole and beans with pasta and bread
-buffalo chicken wrap

Meal 4
1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (130)
6 oz. turkey (180)

Total cal-310/pro-39/fat-15.5

Meal 5

6 oz. tuna (180)
3g fish oil (30)
1 tbsp olive oil (260)

Total cal-470/pro-39/fat-20

Meal 6

6 oz. London broil (280)
pro-37
fat-13

3g fish oil (30)
Fat-3
Total calories-340/pro-37/fat-19

[FireGuy]

Thanks for the PM inviting me to your thread. I have never done keto and would not feel comfortable giving you any advice on it. You should be in good hands with Phate. If you ever decide to go traditional cutting or carb cycling I will be sure and chime in.

[eatrainrest]

Thanks for the PM inviting me to your thread. I have never done keto and would not feel comfortable giving you any advice on it. You should be in good hands with Phate. If you ever decide to go traditional cutting or carb cycling I will be sure and chime in.

no prob for the invite, lol. thanks as always

[FireGuy]

BTW, I am currently 12 1/2 weeks out from my next venture on stage. I will be documenting diet and will have progress pics posted at the conclusion.

[eatrainrest]

BTW, I am currently 12 1/2 weeks out from my next venture on stage. I will be documenting diet and will have progress pics posted at the conclusion.

ok cool, GL bro. I'll be following your log and am interested in seeing how you compiled your diet, ill find your thread.

[(1*)]

why do you not eat yolk from the eggs?

[eatrainrest]

why do you not eat yolk from the eggs?

id rather get my fats from EFA's.. i believe you ran a keto diet how is the base of mine?

[(1*)]

id rather get my fats from EFA's.. i believe you ran a keto diet how is the base of mine?

i am still on keto and i really like it. i am 4 weeks deep. my muscles are harder. i have lost about 1% of body fat and have gained about 1.5 lbs. i am doing ckd and from what it looks like you are more towards a targeted keto diet?? i only consume about 20 carbs a day and that includes my greens. on saturday i will be consuming 400 carbs. (if you are doing tkd make sure your carbs are pre and post work out only.)
plan on going at least the first two weeks with as little carbs as possible.
if you want to do ckd then lower your carbs and after a couple of weeks do a carb day once a week.
the yolk of an egg has lots of goodies in it plus you need more fat. (your macros seem really low in fat) i consume anywhere from 165g to 200g of fat a day (except for carb days where i am around 40 to 50) and my protien is only at 150 to 160. from my understanding too much protien will cause a conversion to glucose and this can throw you out of ketosis. for this reason it is said that you only use 1gram of protien per LBM pound.
it seems phate can explain better or correct if i am wrong. i am still new and most of my knowledge comes from another forum that has an in depth keto section for bodybuilding.. i would like to see one similar in the diet section here. maybe it can start with phate's planned post that should be coming up.

[eatrainrest]

i am still on keto and i really like it. i am 4 weeks deep. my muscles are harder. i have lost about 1% of body fat and have gained about 1.5 lbs. i am doing ckd and from what it looks like you are more towards a targeted keto diet?? i only consume about 20 carbs a day and that includes my greens. on saturday i will be consuming 400 carbs. (if you are doing tkd make sure your carbs are pre and post work out only.)
plan on going at least the first two weeks with as little carbs as possible.
if you want to do ckd then lower your carbs and after a couple of weeks do a carb day once a week.
the yolk of an egg has lots of goodies in it plus you need more fat. (your macros seem really low in fat) i consume anywhere from 165g to 200g of fat a day (except for carb days where i am around 40 to 50) and my protien is only at 150 to 160. from my understanding too much protien will cause a conversion to glucose and this can throw you out of ketosis. for this reason it is said that you only use 1gram of protien per LBM pound.
it seems phate can explain better or correct if i am wrong. i am still new and most of my knowledge comes from another forum that has an in depth keto section for bodybuilding.. i would like to see one similar in the diet section here. maybe it can start with phate's planned post that should be coming up.

well right now my fat intake is around 56% or so. protein should be a little lower but its still around 1.5g, which i dont know but am assuming its not too much to throw me out of ketosis. but then again ill wait for phate to give it a last look.

[(1*)]

i would assume 1.5g would not if done right through out the day. i think it's when you consume too much in a meal so you're correct insaying you are safe. guess i was looking more at the daily totals and not the meal totals. i think to start though the more fat you consume the faster you enter ketosis due to the fat oxidation and since most do keto for cutting they sacrifice calories in the protien area to get the fat in.

[eatrainrest]

i agree, im going to have to figure this out in more detail, probably cut back on a little protein and add in some fish oil with every meal.. i wnna keep fats consistent wtih every meal

[eatrainrest]

made some edits, are my off day macros ok?

[(1*)]

i would personally up the fat and down the protien a little but that's just how i have understood the diet so far and it's still new to me.
are you only doing this for 4weeks?? i just noticed that on your post.
most do it for longer. one guy on a forum that swears by this diet stays on it year round. i don't think i would do that but i do know that i don't want to go back to a carb based diet for a while. they say bulking on keto gains better strength, harder muscle, and less fat. i am wanting to try it after summer.

[Alphatier]

Good Luck with your diet Eat!

I'm curious to see results from Keto diets.

How long will you be following this diet?

[eatrainrest]

Good Luck with your diet Eat!

I'm curious to see results from Keto diets.

How long will you be following this diet?

im having second thoughts only because before i run a keto like diet, i want more LBM and weight... i just started dieting right and have been so for quite a while so ive been caloric deficient for quite some time.. i think its time to put on a little more mass so im going to probably run a low carb bulking diet until like october november when im going to start my slingshot bulking diet and that will take me into probably march before i go back to low carb/ keto.... carb cycling was just too hard lol