Bulk or Cutt First

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-05-2009, 01:02 AM

Thanks guys..So much....Ok well I am 5'7" 160.....I have a small spare tire and some handles.....I used to wrestle and let it go a little in college...bad deal...I am wanting to reach my natural potentional but need some help....My diet it bad....Not because I eat junk food and fast food..I just dont keep track..and dont really know where to start...Ok so I am wanting to do a cycle of Test C 500mg 12 weeks...4 weeks of D-Bol with PCT...I want to do this in a year...I am working out a 4 day split....Should I try to drop weight now...or just burn it off ove the next year....and keep trying to bulk....So I need to figure out a diet....thanks man...

Ok here are some pics

**jamyjamjr** · 07-05-2009, 01:17 AM

well, usualy people who do d-bol are on a bulk.. it's not a good cutting compound..

any idea what your bf is??

your more then welcome to post up a pic or pm a pic to me for an estimate if you cant get a reliable test like calipers or getting dipped...

**eatrainrest** · 07-05-2009, 08:35 AM

curioius age? and if you dont know BF and dont have your diet dialed in dont even contemplate gear.

***FireGuy*** · 07-05-2009, 09:06 AM

Spare Tire=No Bulking.

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-05-2009, 09:42 AM

Yeah I looking to tget gear in a year....I need to work out for at least that long seriously so...no gear for me yet..when I said bulking or cutting I meant with food...I am 25 5'7 1/2....162.....ok so no bulking...but how does that effect mer trying to get stronger

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-05-2009, 09:43 AM

I will take a pic....I just dont have a camera.....I can use my wifes...

**eatrainrest** · 07-05-2009, 09:43 AM

yoru gains all depends on your training, diet, sleep, etc. etc.

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-05-2009, 09:44 AM

Well its off to the diet section to get one...lol.....

**jamyjamjr** · 07-05-2009, 11:19 AM

well at 5'7 and 160 pound your prob not gonna be some morbidly obese person, but i need to get an idea of what your lean body mass is vs your total body fat... seems u might wanna cut, but if your at like 14-15% then i would personally okay the bulk, u might put on another 1-2% but that's what cutting is for...

**DrZach** · 07-05-2009, 01:09 PM

I would definetely bulk first. IMO there is no point in cutting if you haven't bulked up yet. If you cut first you're just going to want to get bigger and end up bulking anyway. People say the same thing for gear.

***FireGuy*** · 07-05-2009, 02:15 PM

Sorry guys, I am on the other side of the fence on this one. I dont take bodyweight into account on whether to cut or bulk. Percentage should be the only determining factor IMHO. If he bulks and gets to 175lbs at 17% he is going to look small and fat. I think what he needs most is to learn to eat and train properly which would go a long ways towards improving his physique.

I do agree with J3 though about needing a pic. That would go a long ways towards unfluencing my decision.

**Phate** · 07-05-2009, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Sorry guys, I am on the other side of the fence on this one. I dont take bodyweight into account on whether to cut or bulk. Percentage should be the only determining factor IMHO. If he bulks and gets to 175lbs at 17% he is going to look small and fat. I think what he needs most is to learn to eat and train properly which would go a long ways towards improving his physique.

I do agree with J3 though about needing a pic. That would go a long ways towards unfluencing my decision.

agreed, i personally like the idea of cutting down to 10%(i'm actually going for around 8-9%), then staying there for 4-6 months to allow your body to set an equilibrium point so that when you do clean bulk your body will be resistant to putting on fat(or at least more so then if you don't establish a set point)

**eatrainrest** · 07-05-2009, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

agreed, i personally like the idea of cutting down to 10%(i'm actually going for around 8-9%), then staying there for 4-6 months to allow your body to set an equilibrium point so that when you do clean bulk your body will be resistant to putting on fat(or at least more so then if you don't establish a set point)

yepppppppp

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-05-2009, 10:01 PM

I swear I love this site...thanks guys...

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-05-2009, 10:03 PM

I am also getting my old wrestling coach to check my bf and I will use the digital scale...its sweet..

**jamyjamjr** · 07-06-2009, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse13

I am also getting my old wrestling coach to check my bf and I will use the digital scale...its sweet..

dont waste your time with digital scales... they're worthless.

***FireGuy*** · 07-06-2009, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by jamyjamjr

dont waste your time with digital scales... they're worthless.

Agreed!

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-06-2009, 07:04 PM

digital weight scales.....I am not talking about bf digital scales..but for my weight....you guys still think there worthless...or did I confuse you guys....

**eatrainrest** · 07-06-2009, 07:12 PM

you confused them...

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-06-2009, 07:16 PM

Ok here are some pics......up top

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-06-2009, 07:25 PM

I could not get the pics to upload...there to big....anyone know what I can do

**eatrainrest** · 07-06-2009, 07:26 PM

get your BF tested the accurate way

***FireGuy*** · 07-06-2009, 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse13

I could not get the pics to upload...there to big....anyone know what I can do

Save them in your "paint" program and they will be smaller.

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-06-2009, 07:38 PM

I got an appointment at 11 in the morning with my old coach to check my bf..So I will let you guys all know tomorrow...thanks and I will work on getting my pics up....ok thanks

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-06-2009, 08:14 PM

Ok the pics are on....

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-06-2009, 08:15 PM

Oh hey..thanks guys

**jamyjamjr** · 07-06-2009, 08:17 PM

your lookin about 16-18% there... cut..

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-06-2009, 08:20 PM

ok...its time to tweek a diet...I am getting my bf tomorrow.......What do you guys think about a cutting gear cycle instead of just all natural...kinda joking...kinda not

**eatrainrest** · 07-06-2009, 08:29 PM

you shouldn't even be contemplating gear right now. you are in the midst of learning about dieting and you will have to find out for yourself through trial and error what works for you. you need to lose body fat and increase muscle mass and maximize it as much as humanly possbile. gear down the road, maybe. ask fire, he's competed years naturally.

***FireGuy*** · 07-06-2009, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse13

ok...its time to tweek a diet...I am getting my bf tomorrow.......What do you guys think about a cutting gear cycle instead of just all natural...kinda joking...kinda not

No offense but you need to learn to diet and train properly first. You have what's known as the "skinny fat" look. The only thing that's going to fix this is a few years (yes years) of proper diet and training. I know this is the last thing you wanted to hear but its the truth. Gotta pay your dues bro.

***FireGuy*** · 07-06-2009, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by eatrainrest

you shouldn't even be contemplating gear right now. you are in the midst of learning about dieting and you will have to find out for yourself through trial and error what works for you. you need to lose body fat and increase muscle mass and maximize it as much as humanly possbile. gear down the road, maybe. ask fire, he's competed years naturally.

And I will say my body looked very much like the OP's when I first picked up a weight 22 years ago. I was 165 pounds with a bit of a gut roll.

**jamyjamjr** · 07-06-2009, 09:41 PM

well, if we wanna get into specifics, let's start with my sticky... it's get things moving the right way

Welcome to the diet forum....

please take the time to follow these directions, they will better prepair the both of us for the critique and tweaking of your diet..

you need to figure our your BMR (this is the basal metabolic rate of your body... which means if you were to do nothing all day, ur body would burn these many calories)

once u'v figured out your BMR, u need your TDEE (this is your total daily energy expenditure, it's based upon your activity level)

But first things first, please post up your current diet.. you have to be brutally honest about what you've been eating on average for the last few weeks so i know where your metabolism is at..
please include macros

MACROS = pro/fat/cal/carb of every meal and a daily total on the bottom
you can use fitday . com to help you our with this... be as detailed and specific as possible

please include the time of when u eat and the time of your workout

also tell me what your workout reg is...

BMR formula

BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)

in order to figure out your bmr, you need to know what your lean body mass is.. so, in turn, u need to know what your body fat percentage is...

if you dont know your bodyfat percentage, go to your gym and get tested (please dont use electronic scales to get your bf checked, they're horrible)

if you cannot find a gym to get tested at, please post up a picture for estimates, we're pretty good at it (you also have the option of pming it to me if you have more then 25 posts)

Total weight x bf in decimel form = total bf weight

Total weight - total bf weight = total lean body mass

if your total lean body mass is in lbs, u can divide it by 2.2 to get it in kilograms..

for example..

i am 6'4 275lbs at 14% bf... so i would multiply 275 by .14 (converted from percent to decimal)= 38.5lbs

275 - 38.5 = 236.5lbs lean body weight

236.5 / 2.2 = 107.5 lean mass in kg

370 + (21.6 x 107.5) = 2692 BMR (this is high for the average person, im a big guy)

TDEE

Once u have you bmr, u need to calculate your TDEE, this is simply done with some multiplication...

you can multiply it by an activity number to figure out your daily caloric expenditure, be honest here as this is the very cornerstone of your diet, if you are between two of the below activity levels then just multiply by a number in between them

To determine your total daily calorie needs, multiply your BMR by the appropriate activity factor, as follows:

If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
If you are moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

Once you have your TDEE, i need you to watch these videos

Milos Sarcev "Secret of the Pro's" on Nutrition

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=323516

this video will give you a great idea as to what your diet should be looking like and the foods you should be eating..

it's also very informative as to how dieting works and what you need to be doing..

once you've aquired this vast knowledge and done what i'v asked of you, please post up a new diet for critiquing and finalization...
please include macros and times just as before...

try to remember that dieting is not an overnight thing.. it takes time and patience....

**CrazyHorse13** · 07-07-2009, 02:58 PM

well I got bad news..today....19% BF...Ahhhhh suck

**jamyjamjr** · 07-07-2009, 03:54 PM

your worried about 19%??

u know when i started dieting i was at 28%??

u need to drop 9 percent, that prob 15lb at your weight... you can do that in under 6 month and add 10lbs lean mass at the same time no prob.. it's all diet and cardio plus a kick ass workout reg...

**THE_DOME** · 07-07-2009, 05:06 PM

yup get a diet and go balls to the wall bro

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