post workout nutrition-shake vs food

[gibsadie]

after an intense weight training workout,is it better to consume a shake with 40gms protein 50gms carbs or 40gms of tuna and 50gms of rice??

is their any difference on which is better for the muscle??

[Klimax]

40g of tuna aren't 40g pro.
Apart from this you, a post wo shake works good, but you should eat solid food an hour after the shake.

[gibsadie]

lol. sorry i meant 40gms of protein from the tuna. its 160grms of solid tuna!

[Twist]

I would take 30 grams of tuna over 40 grams of whey.
go for the real food.

[jamyjamjr]

pwo the only thing i would replace whey with is pasturized egg whites. you need quick amino acids post workout

[GuybrushThreepwod]

It seems as though we have a conflict of opinions!
Maybe just eat half servings of both?

[bvfd253]

yeah solid food will not benifit you most times like the WHEY pro shake, it only takes a whey pro shake 20 mins to metabolise the protein and make it available as with real food it could take up to 24 hours (beef) stick with the protein shake and be sure to take in some simple carbs (SUGAR) As this will raise your insulin levels (good thing) I said add sugar not fat so skip the cheesecake as milo would say =) personally ive got a caffiene addiction that im tryin 2 get rid of so i use post work out as a time to drink a coke... coke is carbonated which will help force the sugar into ur blood stream quicker... works with alcohol as well haha

[jamyjamjr]

i would use solid food over whey anyday with the exception of pwo..

[gibsadie]

ok thanks for your input! i ts alot easier to have a shake directly after gym. otherwise i always have to rush home and prepare the tuna and rice.lol

[ADB007]

Gibsadie yo buscuit!

have the shake directly after gym, and cut the rice out at night bro! Im watching you! lol

[sizerp]

I used to drink Whey and Oats PWO... 2:1 carb protein ratio...

Usually I eat a whole meal 30 minutes later - like chicken or tilapia with complex carbs... works for me.

[C_Bino]

Whole food is king. Around the supplement business and internet garbage whey is king.

Talk to any professional or nutritionist who knows what they are talking about and they will ALWAYS recommend whole food.

Now, I have always been a whole food advocate myself and do it to this day. Eat whole food right after training.

I will say this however, there are certain times when you can utilize whey protein to your advantage.

When I am bulking I will sometimes use it when using insulin or even between meals when Im already at 7 whole foods meals per day. But to replace a meal with a shake or to use it PWO in place of food is not best imo.

[Alphatier]

What I do is I have a PWO Whey Protein shake, but I don't wait an hour to eat.

I'll go home and eat right away, which is about 15 minutes after my PWO shake.

WHOLE FOOD RULES!!

[Twist]

yeah solid food will not benifit you most times like the WHEY pro shake... ...coke is carbonated which will help force the sugar into ur blood stream quicker...

I disagree with the first statement. I believe food will benefit you more anytime a shake will; just depends on the food.

Also I believe that carbonation has a negative effect on your amino acid absorption rate because when your body senses the carbonation it forces the food through your gi tract faster, hindering the absorption of nutrients that are not quickly absorbed.

[vingtor]

ok, if you use insulin (which you should) it should be a HEALTHY choice. after you workout, 15 minutes afterwords, its time to have a quick dissolving protien with some carbs(which would spike insulin levels) it takes 15grams of carbs to raise blood sugar levels. why is a shake better than whole food after working out? IMMEDIATly going into bloodstream in muscles, while a chicken breast will take LONGER. so lets review the facts

your muscles are starved
and your going to wait for somthing to go into the muscle?
not the plan
an isolate is GREAT.

but after your shake, real food.

take it from a nutritionist, way to go. i was taught by a Registered Dietition who was a BB'er and a health and fitness personal trainer. so im sure i know what im doin

[vingtor]

Whole food is king. Around the supplement business and internet garbage whey is king.

Talk to any professional or nutritionist who knows what they are talking about and they will ALWAYS recommend whole food.

Now, I have always been a whole food advocate myself and do it to this day. Eat whole food right after training.

I will say this however, there are certain times when you can utilize whey protein to your advantage.

When I am bulking I will sometimes use it when using insulin or even between meals when Im already at 7 whole foods meals per day. But to replace a meal with a shake or to use it PWO in place of food is not best imo.

yes, we recomend WHOLE FOOD over a shake any day. but unless you liquify chicken, no way. because the shake is liquid, it takes LESS time for starving muscles. this is the way to go, and than eat a chicken breast so you dont crash or what not. thats how you wanna do it bro.

if it comes to just a regular meal, whole food or shake, WHOLE FOOD. but if it comes down to shake or nothing SHAKE.

[PC650]

food is king!! shakes are only good for pwo thats it!!!

[vingtor]

EXACTLY! 15 minututes after workin out, 30 minutes later chicken breast. go for it. youll see gains. looks like PC650 knows his shit.

shake can also be utilized for breakfast to. because your body is in a catabolic state, but if you did 20g of whey and had oatmeal or somthing thatd be benficial. but the shake should not take your full protien intake for bfast, jsut to "jump start" the anabolism.

[PC650]

thanks man.... ya ive never seen improvments like i do now till i switch too food only. shake will just hold you back.

[Twist]

All well and good if your window was only 15 minutes. New research shows that your window is much much larger, and further that a meal after a workout benefits you more than a shake. let me try to find this. I never bookmark anything cuz I am retarded.

[vingtor]

no, 15 minutes after you work, so your homrones that block insulin "die" out. than shake. than food. but obviously, if your somone who looks to see how their close fit in the mirror it really wont benefit you.
the whole point is to shove nutrients as fast into your muscles as possible. not slower. so the more, the better right? yes!

[vingtor]

These products may come in handy when short on time for real food. However,
being that these are liquids, they would leave your stomach really quickly. It is not
recommended to use these as meal replacements. The best time to have them is right
after exercise. Studies have shown that a liquid combination of protein and
carbohydrate taken immediately and up to two hours after resistance training enhances
recovery. The studies increased blood levels of insulin and growth hormone , both of
which are body-tissue building agents. Besides convenience, be certain that you only
use a micro peptide protein complex from extreme hydrolyzed whey protein fraction for
complete absorption. Be aware that there are missing nutrients in these supplements
which are not to be substituted for real food too often. A carbohydrate supplement is
advantageous during resistance training when muscle glycogen is low. Another study
found that 0.5 grams of carbohydrate per pound of body weight immediately after
resistance training decreased the amount of body protein breakdown that normally
occurs with intense weight training

copyrighted by lucho crisalle

[vingtor]

Five hormones are
secreted during exercise: growth hormone , epinephrine, norepinephrine, glucagon, and
cortisol. These hormones are insulin -blocking hormones—their main job is to make
glucose available for exercise by preventing insulin from storing it. If you were to drink a
shake or high glucose drink immediately after your workout, these hormones would
block insulin secretion and you would not be able to store much of the glucose in your
muscle mass as glycogen to replenish what you just used during exercise. By waiting
15 minutes after your workout to drink your high glycemic drink, these hormones “have
died out or diminished in concentration” and allow a large insulin secretion to shuttle all
that glucose right into your muscle mass to replenish the glycogen you just depleted
during your workout. This is the mechanism utilized to also shuttle large amounts of
creatine into muscle cells.

[vingtor]

^^^ looks like somone leveled the playing feild. a nutritionst and a RD will know more about the body than a gym rat that writes forums on bodybuilding.com ))

[PC650]

nice posts vingtor

[vingtor]

no problem. its just needs be cleared up. im not saying im the greatest, jsut theres a lot of confusing stuff, and somtimes somone needs someone to hold their hand. its the problem of not KNOWING how to eat. but its easily learned. i hope this clears some stuff up for everyone.

thanks PC650!

[vingtor]

it goes hand in hand of the GI of whether its useful or useless.

[Twist]

no, 15 minutes after you work, so your homrones that block insulin "die" out. than shake. than food. but obviously, if your somone who looks to see how their close fit in the mirror it really wont benefit you.
the whole point is to shove nutrients as fast into your muscles as possible. not slower. so the more, the better right? yes!

why would eggs not do the same thing? eggs are very quickly digested. idk the rate but it is quick.

Five hormones are
secreted during exercise: growth hormone , epinephrine, norepinephrine, glucagon, and
cortisol. These hormones are insulin-blocking hormones—their main job is to make
glucose available for exercise by preventing insulin from storing it. If you were to drink a
shake or high glucose drink immediately after your workout, these hormones would
block insulin secretion and you would not be able to store much of the glucose in your
muscle mass as glycogen to replenish what you just used during exercise. By waiting
15 minutes after your workout to drink your high glycemic drink, these hormones “have
died out or diminished in concentration” and allow a large insulin secretion to shuttle all
that glucose right into your muscle mass to replenish the glycogen you just depleted
during your workout. This is the mechanism utilized to also shuttle large amounts of
creatine into muscle cells.

this tells us to wait OVER 15 minutes before we drink a protein shake. I am confused as to your point. Are you saying we should wait to have a shake or that we shouldn't? Cuz the whole point of a shake is that you can pound it quick and get the nutrients quickly, to your starving muscles.

^^^ looks like somone leveled the playing feild. a nutritionst and a RD will know more about the body than a gym rat that writes forums on bodybuilding.com ))

Idk if you think I am arguing with you or what... but I am not and am just as eager to learn. About the whole nutritionist thing: I have met quite a few idiots with degrees, one is my current college professor. A title counted for something a lot more valuable when the internet was not around; now that it is... we all have access to the same reading. the difference I see lately in my doctor friends is that unlike many of us "gym rat that writes forums on bodybuilding.com", we keep reading daily, whereas doctors don't keep up with many new things. This doesn't even scratch the surface of the problem with these people either. But that is another thread.

ps. I drink shakes after my workout while cooking my meal. But I don't think they do shit, I just do it because there is a possibility it does something, and I am also hungry as hell. I have done without and have noticed no difference.

[vingtor]

first is for those who dont understand so well, the second is in depth. for like a 15 yr old , the first should follow. but for those of us who are more intese, then we should go for the second.

[vingtor]

yes, whole point of shake is to hit it. what kind of shake you using?

[vingtor]

oh, doctors do not have very good nutrition training.if they did, why would we need RD's?(not attacking those doc friends) but ive had the same thing where docs do not know anything. like the "Summerize"(sp) diet. she had a doctor back her diet up, but it didnt do anything cause they dont have much training.

[Twist]

This whole thing was discussed earlier. let me find the post.

[Twist]

The Top 10 Post Workout Nutrition Myths

that was easier than I thought. that being said, I still would take food over shake anyday. and I know many bb feel the same way. Ask anybody who did the whole 3 shakes a day thing, then switched to real food, they will tell you that the food was better. we may not understand why yet, but in real life I have seen food make the difference.
that being said my advice is to just do both I guess. shake while you are making food, just like breakfast.

[sizerp]

oh, doctors do not have very good nutrition training.if they did, why would we need RD's?(not attacking those doc friends) but ive had the same thing where docs do not know anything. like the "Summerize"(sp) diet. she had a doctor back her diet up, but it didnt do anything cause they dont have much training.

This statement cannot be farther from the truth. How can you make such a blanket statement? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Your posts sound as though YOU are 15.

Food > SHAKES. Enough said.

[vingtor]

food above shakes. right. shake for pwo. its true! if not, than why is the ADA with it? explain that my good friend!

[vingtor]

The next Fad Diet we will look at is brought to us by the
creator of the famous Thigh Master, Suzanne Somers. Besides
having crafted such a useful and delightful device as the Thigh
Master, she has also
created……maybe a better word
would be re-created a diet plan called “Eat Great, Lose
Weight and Get Skinny on Fabulous Food,” or simply called
“The Somersize Diet.” I chose to discuss this diet next
because it is yet another variation of the Diamond Method,
Fit For Life, Food Combining myth; that is also why I stated
that she re-created it—someone else had come up with that
idea and she decided to capitalize on it. For this project,
Suzanne Somers chose an MD as a co-author. This, I
believe was done in an effort to increase her credibility. After
all, not many of us old enough to remember Three’s
Company would be able to take anything “Chrissie” would
tell us seriously…….at least not as far as nutrition is
concerned. As far as increasing credibility in a nutrition book by use of an MD is
concerned, that too is faulty planning. Anyone who has ever reviewed a medical
curriculum at any major university is well aware of the fact that medical doctors get
minimal training in nutrition. If they actually did know something about nutrition, there
would be no need for registered dietitians at hospitals and clinics all across the country.
In this diet, Chrissie………… I mean Suzanne Somers,
recommends a combination of a high protein diet and a food
combining diet. As mentioned in the acid base diet, the
recommendation is that we stick to low glycemic index
carbohydrates and of course not combine proteins with
carbohydrates because according to her, “when eaten
together, the enzymes cancel each other out, creating a halt in
the digestion process.” This of course must come from her
upcoming book “Human Biochemistry According to Chrissie"

in your bookstores soon! There is no scientific basis for these recommendations just as
the diets she copied for her book had no scientific data backing them up back in the late
eighties.
Suzanne has seven easy steps to be successful on her diet. Below, you will see
her recommendations in black font, and my analysis in italicized blue font.
1. Eliminate all “funky foods” as she calls them: caffeine, alcohol, sugars and highly
starchy foods (including carrots, beets, bananas, corn, popcorn, potatoes, winter
squashes, white rice; white flour and semolina flour pasta). Funny, these are the
main staples of Europeans and if you have ever been to Europe, the majority of
the population is thin. This goes back to the golden rule “if you can burn it, you
can eat it.”
2. Eat FRUIT alone on an empty stomach. Okay, this would be beating a dead
horse, so I will just have you refer to the glycemic index section with the
discussion on fructose and insulin . Fruit, no matter how “natural” it may be, is the
worse thing to eat in large amounts—especially on an empty stomach and all
morning long!
3. Eat proteins and fats with veggies. Finally a statement that does make sense!
You can eat proteins and fats with veggies. As a matter of fact, one of the
advanced strategies to get clients past a sticking point in their progress is to have
five days in a row (usually Sunday through Thursday) with no carbs at night
(other than veggies) and then to go back to eating normal on Friday and
Saturday. This is called the Zig Zag pattern and it is designed to prevent the
slowing of your clients’ metabolism by prescribing too low of a calorie diet. The
amounts of fat recommended in the Zig Zag pattern are quite low though.
4. Eat carbohydrates with veggies. This would be a RESOUNDING NO! Read the
Executive Nutrition article for a detailed explanation of why we would never eat
carbs by themselves, even though veggies may have high fiber (if chosen
correctly), they are still pure carbs and need a protein along the way to moderate
glucose levels correctly.
5. Keep proteins and fats separate from carbohydrates. See above, resounding NO.
Also keep in mind that fats must be used sparingly as recommended in ENW’s
What Works™ Nutrition Software© program.
6. Wait three hours between meals if switching from a protein / fat meal to a
carbohydrate containing meal, or vice versa. Based on the knowledge we have
through clinical studies and data, this statement is absolute nonsense. You do
want to eat every three to four hours; however, you do always want to combine
carbohydrates with protein.
7. Do not skip meals. Eat at least three meals a day, and eat until you feel satisfied
and comfortably full. Here is a statement I agree with………….partially. The part I
do not agree with is the part recommending at least three meals per day. It isbest to have four to six meals per day based on your caloric intake. ENW’s What
Works™ Nutrition Software© program will assist you in creating the right meal
program for with the individual in mind.
It is plain to see that this, as well as many other diets, have many misconceptions
based on hearsay and folklore. I recommend basing things on clinical research as we
have been doing throughout this course.


and your going to tell me the atkins diets great to? why dont you actually have a degree please? before you attack someone. thanks

[vingtor]

For this project,
Suzanne Somers chose an MD as a co-author. This, I
believe was done in an effort to increase her credibility. After
all, not many of us old enough to remember Three’s
Company would be able to take anything “Chrissie” would
tell us seriously…….at least not as far as nutrition is
concerned. As far as increasing credibility in a nutrition book by use of an MD is
concerned, that too is faulty planning. Anyone who has ever reviewed a medical
curriculum at any major university is well aware of the fact that medical doctors get
minimal training in nutrition. If they actually did know something about nutrition, there
would be no need for registered dietitians at hospitals and clinics all across the country.

WHATS THAT? AHHHH lets repeat?

[vingtor]

it was said by, a Registered Dietition? who looks 15 now sizerp? and we forget were talking about POST WORK OUT not replacing lunch.
my posts sound like im 15? im not arguing with you man. this is WAY too childish for my liking. just admit, a Registered Dietition and a CFNS know more than you. besides, this is very subjective, and you gotta find out what works for you.

[sizerp]

You're retarded.

[sizerp]

You still look 15. What are you in 8th grade?