Enough time, or a waste of time?

[gbrice75]

Age: 34
5'11
190lbs
BF% - roughly 18%-20%
BMR - 2000 cals
TDEE - 2600 cals

I have been working out for almost a year to date. I started out extremely out of shape at 255lbs. I've managed to take off alot of weight, however I question how much was actually bodyfat and how much was lean mass.

As per the title of this thread, I am currently trying to cut and then want to do a bulk cycle and another cut cycle before summer. I have never purposely done this before, I simply always (within this last year) ate low cals to facilitate weight loss, but was ignorant as to what was actually being lost. My plan is to cut throughout the rest of December and all of January @ 2,200 cals/day - 400g protein, 75g carbs, 75g fat. I was then planning on upping overall daily calories to 3000 for February, March and April - I wasn't sure on whether to increase protein, or just increase the other 2 macros to make up the additional 800 calories, about another 100g each of carbs and fat. I would then drop back to 2,200 cals for May and June, hoping to cut a bit before summer.

The question is - am I allowing enough time during these 'cycles' for anything to happen, or am I wasting time? In other words, should my cutting/bulking cycles be longer than 2-3 months to get results? Should I start bulking now and then cut in April or something? I'm sort of lost, this is new to me. Any help you can offer would be appreciated!

[elpropiotorvic]

I wouldn't use 400 g of protein myself but if it works for you...

To answer ur question..

Ur 18 to 20 % bf .... It's probably a good idea to cut all the way to the summer... And then next winter do a lean bulk...

Just my op

[gbrice75]

I wouldn't use 400 g of protein myself but if it works for you...

To answer ur question..

Ur 18 to 20 % bf .... It's probably a good idea to cut all the way to the summer... And then next winter do a lean bulk...

Just my op

Out of curiosity, why wouldn't you take 400g of protein in a day? Most people recommend 2-3g per lb. of bodyweight (for weight training) - i'm roughly 200lbs.

So when you suggest cutting all the way to the summer - is that because 2-3 months is not enough time to cut (or bulk for that matter), or is it just because my bodyfat is significantly high?

I was really hoping to add a couple pounds of lean mass before the summer... didn't want to go in looking like a 'skinny fat'. But again, if spending 2-3 months on either a cutting or bulking cycle is not enough, then I will have to pick one and stick with it up to and possibly throughout the summer.

Anybody else??

[mg1228]

2-3 mo is enough to cut---but if i were u just lean bulk till end of feb. and then then star ur cut---or mid feb and then cut--if ur 18-20% u can easily cut 10% in 3-4 mo if u stick to it strict

[BJJ]

Age: 34
5'11
190lbs
BF% - roughly 18%-20%
BMR - 2000 cals
TDEE - 2600 cals

I have been working out for almost a year to date. I started out extremely out of shape at 255lbs. I've managed to take off alot of weight, however I question how much was actually bodyfat and how much was lean mass.

As per the title of this thread, I am currently trying to cut and then want to do a bulk cycle and another cut cycle before summer. I have never purposely done this before, I simply always (within this last year) ate low cals to facilitate weight loss, but was ignorant as to what was actually being lost. My plan is to cut throughout the rest of December and all of January @ 2,200 cals/day - 400g protein, 75g carbs, 75g fat. I was then planning on upping overall daily calories to 3000 for February, March and April - I wasn't sure on whether to increase protein, or just increase the other 2 macros to make up the additional 800 calories, about another 100g each of carbs and fat. I would then drop back to 2,200 cals for May and June, hoping to cut a bit before summer.

The question is - am I allowing enough time during these 'cycles' for anything to happen, or am I wasting time? In other words, should my cutting/bulking cycles be longer than 2-3 months to get results? Should I start bulking now and then cut in April or something? I'm sort of lost, this is new to me. Any help you can offer would be appreciated!

Sorry but the question you should ask to yourself is:
is the bold the right macro nutrients combination?

[BJJ]

I forgot, the total is not 2200 Kcal.

[gbrice75]

Thanks guys, i'll consider starting my bulking now and the cut maybe Mar-Apr-May.

I hate to sound like such a n00b, but I am, so - what EXACTLY do you mean by 'lean bulk'? Like, can you give some examples? And what would be examples of the opposite?

@BJJ - the 400p/75c/75f is the current 2200 i'm at for cutting. However, when I bump up to 3000 for bulking, how would you suggest I distribute the macros? I can't see upping the protein beyond 400g, but maybe so? Would I just make up the 800 additional cals in fat and carbs?

[BJJ]

Thanks guys, i'll consider starting my bulking now and the cut maybe Mar-Apr-May.

I hate to sound like such a n00b, but I am, so - what EXACTLY do you mean by 'lean bulk'? Like, can you give some examples? And what would be examples of the opposite?

@BJJ - the 400p/75c/75f is the current 2200 i'm at for cutting. However, when I bump up to 3000 for bulking, how would you suggest I distribute the macros? I can't see upping the protein beyond 400g, but maybe so? Would I just make up the 800 additional cals in fat and carbs?

Your calculation is not correct.
First, let's try to understand how you came up to 2200 Kcal from 400p/75c/75f.
Could you write down your calculations?

Before you reply, let me tell you that carbohydrates stored as glycogen bind for each gram 2,7 g of water and because a gram of carbohydrate is equivalent to 4 Kcal, 4 Kcal of glycogen are equivalent of 3,7 g, i.e. a gram of glycogen (whereas the water linked) is equivalent to 1,1 Kcal.
One gram of fat is equivalent to 9 Kcal, but league only 1 gram of water for which a gram of fat tissue (fat with water linked) brings 4,5 Kcal.

See what I mean?
Calculate again please, since you are thinking to ingest much less calories you are in reality.

[gbrice75]

Your calculation is not correct.
First, let's try to understand how you came up to 2200 Kcal from 400p/75c/75f.
Could you write down your calculations?

Before you reply, let me tell you that carbohydrates stored as glycogen bind for each gram 2,7 g of water and because a gram of carbohydrate is equivalent to 4 Kcal, 4 Kcal of glycogen are equivalent of 3,7 g, i.e. a gram of glycogen (whereas the water linked) is equivalent to 1,1 Kcal.
One gram of fat is equivalent to 9 Kcal, but league only 1 gram of water for which a gram of fat tissue (fat with water linked) brings 4,5 Kcal.

See what I mean?
Calculate again please, since you are thinking to ingest much less calories you are in reality.

I'm sorry, I just don't follow. You clearly know much more than I about all of this; I know the very basics which we've all been taught, which is: 1g of carbohydrate = 4 calories, 1g of protein = 4 calories, 1g of fat = 9 calories. Based on that, 400g of protein = 1600 calories, and 75g of carbs = 300 calories. I DID screw up on the fat calculation though, where 75g of fat should = 675 calories, not 300. So I would need to knock the fat intake down to about 35g per day to equal 315 calories. 1600 + 300 + 315 = 2215.

I have NO IDEA about any of what you wrote above. Of course, i am always interested in becoming more informed, so I do appreciate your attempt to educate me. Are you saying that i'm ingesting fewer calories in a day than I think, or more?

[FireGuy]

I know I am late to this thread but if your BF is already 18-20% why is the word bulk even in your thought process?

[mg1228]

Thanks guys, i'll consider starting my bulking now and the cut maybe Mar-Apr-May.

I hate to sound like such a n00b, but I am, so - what EXACTLY do you mean by 'lean bulk'? Like, can you give some examples? And what would be examples of the opposite?

@BJJ - the 400p/75c/75f is the current 2200 i'm at for cutting. However, when I bump up to 3000 for bulking, how would you suggest I distribute the macros? I can't see upping the protein beyond 400g, but maybe so? Would I just make up the 800 additional cals in fat and carbs?

meant to say clean bulk--all clean foods---starting off 2-300 cals over tdee and move it up a little at a time--maybe every 2 weeks----that being said fireguy is right, at 18-20%bf u should just cut now and get there by mar-apr and then maybe clean bulk if thats what u wanna do

[gbrice75]

I know I am late to this thread but if your BF is already 18-20% why is the word bulk even in your thought process?

LoL when you put it like that, it does sound kind of silly. It's just that i've spent the last year cutting (if that's what you want to call dropping 60lbs, more like spending the last year NOT being a fat slob) and pretty much have the same amount of muscle as last summer, I guess i'm just anxious to start trying to put on muscle. If it's that ridiculous at 28%-20% bodyfat, then i'll stick with the cut up to and throughout the summer. At what BF% do you think would be a good number to finally switch gears?

[gbrice75]

meant to say clean bulk--all clean foods---starting off 2-300 cals over tdee and move it up a little at a time--maybe every 2 weeks----that being said fireguy is right, at 18-20%bf u should just cut now and get there by mar-apr and then maybe clean bulk if thats what u wanna do

Gotcha. Right now i'm eating cleaner than I EVER have in the past, and I have to admit it feels really good. I'm just hoping that results will soon show themselves - i've only been on this particular 'diet' for 3 weeks now.

If I reached my BF% goal (which at this point I don't know what would be realistic to set at) before summer, i would definitely want to start a clean bulk cycle. Stay posted for progress, thanks guys!

[BJJ]

I'm sorry, I just don't follow. You clearly know much more than I about all of this; I know the very basics which we've all been taught, which is: 1g of carbohydrate = 4 calories, 1g of protein = 4 calories, 1g of fat = 9 calories. Based on that, 400g of protein = 1600 calories, and 75g of carbs = 300 calories. I DID screw up on the fat calculation though, where 75g of fat should = 675 calories, not 300. So I would need to knock the fat intake down to about 35g per day to equal 315 calories. 1600 + 300 + 315 = 2215.

I have NO IDEA about any of what you wrote above. Of course, i am always interested in becoming more informed, so I do appreciate your attempt to educate me. Are you saying that i'm ingesting fewer calories in a day than I think, or more?

The bold is correct in the way that is averaged. In reality, going deeper, there are other things to take into account to have "perfect" numbers. But, since it would be very complicated to calculate each time each different foods, the nutritional science stated those numbers to be used in the common use.

Said that, I just wanted to point out that you thought to be ingesting 2200 Kcal but in reality they were way more.
No big deal though, since you know the correct Kcalories value for each type of macro nutrient.

[gbrice75]

The bold is correct in the way that is averaged. In reality, going deeper, there are other things to take into account to have "perfect" numbers. But, since it would be very complicated to calculate each time each different foods, the nutritional science stated those numbers to be used in the common use.

Said that, I just wanted to point out that you thought to be ingesting 2200 Kcal but in reality they were way more.
No big deal though, since you know the correct Kcalories value for each type of macro nutrient.

LoL I think i'm more confused now. Earlier you said my calculations were incorrect, and even in the above quoted you mention that you wanted to point out that I thought to be ingesting 2200 kcal but in reality they were way more, however you go on to say that I know the correct kcalories value for each marco.

Was it simply because I had the fat calculation wrong, is that what you were getting at? Now you have me concerned; I need to know what i'm taking in!! If i'm way off then that would be a good explanation of why I haven't started dropping fat yet....

[mg1228]

LoL I think i'm more confused now. Earlier you said my calculations were incorrect, and even in the above quoted you mention that you wanted to point out that I thought to be ingesting 2200 kcal but in reality they were way more, however you go on to say that I know the correct kcalories value for each marco.

Was it simply because I had the fat calculation wrong, is that what you were getting at? Now you have me concerned; I need to know what i'm taking in!! If i'm way off then that would be a good explanation of why I haven't started dropping fat yet....

yes fat calc was wrong--should of been 675 cals---u should post up ur diet so the experts can look at it---imo i think ur split on macros could be diff--ie,40/40/20---realistically u could get to single digits bf% but u have to have the correct diet---so post away

[green22]

I know I am late to this thread but if your BF is already 18-20% why is the word bulk even in your thought process?

Yea thats what Im thinking too. 18-20% is fat my man. you 5'11" and only weigh 200. To me that says you dont have much muscle to begin with. I say loose some fat. get down to 10-12%. If you weigh 150 at that % then so be it. Once you get down to that then you can start thinking bout bulking.

[gbrice75]

Ok, based on the feedback here, it's pretty clear that I am not going to be adding muscle mass this year and will have to continue to reduce body fat. I thought a year would have been enough, but i was naive and underestimated how long this process can take, even with extreme dedication. I've lost 60+ lbs. from a year ago but that was the easy part. I don't know my BF % for sure but most of you have estimated me at 18%-20%. I have posted my pics here again for re-evaluation. These are from October, but current enough. I am posting my goals and current diet below. Please check it over and critique, adjust, etc. to help me reach my goal!!!

Age: 34
Height: 5'11
Weight: 195lbs
BF% - guesstimated at 18%-20%, check out the pics and you tell me =)
BMR - approx. 2000
TDEE - approx. 2600
Current daily caloric intake - approx. 2200 cals/day
Overall goal - get down to 10% body fat and then ADD LEAN MASS (finally!!!)

DIET:

4:45am - Premier Protein Shake - 30g protein, 2g carbs, 3g fat
Homemade Protein/Carb bar - 26g protein, 25g carbs, 4g fat
(bar is all good stuff - whole oats, skim milk, whey protein powder)
TOTALS: 56g Protein, 27g Carbs, 7g Fat

5:45am - WEIGHT TRAIN AND CARDIO

7:30am - PWO -Whey Shake in Skim Milk - 32g Protein, 12g Carbs, 2g Fat
Homemade Protein/Carb Bar - 26g Protein, 25g Carbs, 4g Fat
TOTALS: 58g Protein, 37g Carbs, 6g Fat

10:30am - PPWO - 9oz Ground Turkey - 54g Protein, 16g Fat
Totals: 54g Protein, 16g Fat

1:30pm - 9oz chicken, fish, or beef - 54g Protein (fat depending on fish or beef)
Broccoli, Asparagus, or other fiberous veggie
Totals: 54g Protein

4:30pm - 9oz ground turkey - 54g protein, 16g fat
Totals: 54g Protein, 16g Fat

7:30pm - 9oz chicken, fish, or beef - 54g Protein (fat depending on fish or beef)
Broccoli, Asparagus, or other fiberous veggie
Totals: 54g Protein

10:30pm - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat

DAILY TOTALS: 360g Protein, 64g Carbs, 48g Fat = 2128 KCals

I am coming up about 40g short on the protein, 11g short on carbs, and 13g OVER on fats. Please help me make adjustments! Note that I am not taking in any carbs (other than fiberous veggies) after my PWO meal. This is because I sit at a desk ALL DAY LONG and don't want to fuel up on carbs for nothing. Since i'm 11g shy at the end of the day, I think I could add some carbs to my PPWO meal, what do you think? I also need to cut out some fats, not sure where since most of it is coming from my meats which I need. Remember my goal is to reach 10% body fat, please help me!!!

[gbrice75]

Couldn't attach in quick reply, so here they are:

[mg1228]

Ok, based on the feedback here, it's pretty clear that I am not going to be adding muscle mass this year and will have to continue to reduce body fat. I thought a year would have been enough, but i was naive and underestimated how long this process can take, even with extreme dedication. I've lost 60+ lbs. from a year ago but that was the easy part. I don't know my BF % for sure but most of you have estimated me at 18%-20%. I have posted my pics here again for re-evaluation. These are from October, but current enough. I am posting my goals and current diet below. Please check it over and critique, adjust, etc. to help me reach my goal!!!

Age: 34
Height: 5'11
Weight: 195lbs
BF% - guesstimated at 18%-20%, check out the pics and you tell me =)
BMR - approx. 2000
TDEE - approx. 2600
Current daily caloric intake - approx. 2200 cals/day
Overall goal - get down to 10% body fat and then ADD LEAN MASS (finally!!!)

DIET:

4:45am - Premier Protein Shake - 30g protein, 2g carbs, 3g fat
Homemade Protein/Carb bar - 26g protein, 25g carbs, 4g fat
(bar is all good stuff - whole oats, skim milk, whey protein powder)
TOTALS: 56g Protein, 27g Carbs, 7g Fat

5:45am - WEIGHT TRAIN AND CARDIO

7:30am - PWO -Whey Shake in Skim Milk - 32g Protein, 12g Carbs, 2g Fat
Homemade Protein/Carb Bar - 26g Protein, 25g Carbs, 4g Fat
TOTALS: 58g Protein, 37g Carbs, 6g Fat

10:30am - PPWO - 9oz Ground Turkey - 54g Protein, 16g Fat
Totals: 54g Protein, 16g Fat

1:30pm - 9oz chicken, fish, or beef - 54g Protein (fat depending on fish or beef)
Broccoli, Asparagus, or other fiberous veggie
Totals: 54g Protein

4:30pm - 9oz ground turkey - 54g protein, 16g fat
Totals: 54g Protein, 16g Fat

7:30pm - 9oz chicken, fish, or beef - 54g Protein (fat depending on fish or beef)
Broccoli, Asparagus, or other fiberous veggie
Totals: 54g Protein

10:30pm - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat

DAILY TOTALS: 360g Protein, 64g Carbs, 48g Fat = 2128 KCals

I am coming up about 40g short on the protein, 11g short on carbs, and 13g OVER on fats. Please help me make adjustments! Note that I am not taking in any carbs (other than fiberous veggies) after my PWO meal. This is because I sit at a desk ALL DAY LONG and don't want to fuel up on carbs for nothing. Since i'm 11g shy at the end of the day, I think I could add some carbs to my PPWO meal, what do you think? I also need to cut out some fats, not sure where since most of it is coming from my meats which I need. Remember my goal is to reach 10% body fat, please help me!!!

looks ok to me(im no expert) but id get rid of the shakes and homemade pro bars exept PWO and replace with real food(the carbs are ok but the whey aint)--and id lower protein intake to 250-300gr and fill in with good fats(fish oil imo) to get to ur 2200 cals---after ur in to this diet 2weeks i would have a high carb day every week to keep the fat burning process going.. on this re-feed day just lower the fats---i'll let the experts take it from here

[BJJ]

LoL I think i'm more confused now. Earlier you said my calculations were incorrect, and even in the above quoted you mention that you wanted to point out that I thought to be ingesting 2200 kcal but in reality they were way more, however you go on to say that I know the correct kcalories value for each marco.

Was it simply because I had the fat calculation wrong, is that what you were getting at? Now you have me concerned; I need to know what i'm taking in!! If i'm way off then that would be a good explanation of why I haven't started dropping fat yet....

Yes it was and thought you were unaware of the macro kcal, but you are not it was only a calculation mistake.

[BJJ]

Couldn't attach in quick reply, so here they are:

Legs?
I think you are around 16-18% and in order to cycle you can go down to 12-13%, no need to reach 10%, IMO.
In any case, definitely not 20%

[gbrice75]

Legs?
I think you are around 16-18% and in order to cycle you can go down to 12-13%, no need to reach 10%, IMO.
In any case, definitely not 20%

Thanks BJJ!!! That's inspirational!

I'll take leg pics and post them shortly. Trust me though, you're not missing anything special!

What do you think of the diet in general?

[BJJ]

Thanks BJJ!!! That's inspirational!

I'll take leg pics and post them shortly. Trust me though, you're not missing anything special!

What do you think of the diet in general?

I need to see your legs because I need to know how they can impact your total bf percentage.
Your upper body problem is around your navel mostly. That belly part is not homogeneous to the rest (chest, back and arms).
Honestly, considering you lost 60+ lbs in the last year, I would say it is normal and you have been obtaining a very good result so far.
You just need to realize you came accross the hard part now!

Regarding you diet, I go to sleep now so I will check it out deeply tomorrow.

[gbrice75]

I need to see your legs because I need to know how they can impact your total bf percentage.
Your upper body problem is around your navel mostly. That belly part is not homogeneous to the rest (chest, back and arms).
Honestly, considering you lost 60+ lbs in the last year, I would say it is normal and you have been obtaining a very good result so far.
You just need to realize you came accross the hard part now!

Regarding you diet, I go to sleep now so I will check it out deeply tomorrow.

Thank you, I look forward to seeing your feedback! =)

[BJJ]

Ok, based on the feedback here, it's pretty clear that I am not going to be adding muscle mass this year and will have to continue to reduce body fat. I thought a year would have been enough, but i was naive and underestimated how long this process can take, even with extreme dedication. I've lost 60+ lbs. from a year ago but that was the easy part. I don't know my BF % for sure but most of you have estimated me at 18%-20%. I have posted my pics here again for re-evaluation. These are from October, but current enough. I am posting my goals and current diet below. Please check it over and critique, adjust, etc. to help me reach my goal!!!

Age: 34
Height: 5'11
Weight: 195lbs
BF% - guesstimated at 18%-20%, check out the pics and you tell me =)
BMR - approx. 2000
TDEE - approx. 2600
Current daily caloric intake - approx. 2200 cals/day
Overall goal - get down to 10% body fat and then ADD LEAN MASS (finally!!!)

DIET:

4:45am - Premier Protein Shake - 30g protein, 2g carbs, 3g fat
Homemade Protein/Carb bar - 26g protein, 25g carbs, 4g fat
(bar is all good stuff - whole oats, skim milk, whey protein powder)
TOTALS: 56g Protein, 27g Carbs, 7g Fat

5:45am - WEIGHT TRAIN AND CARDIO

7:30am - PWO -Whey Shake in Skim Milk - 32g Protein, 12g Carbs, 2g Fat
Homemade Protein/Carb Bar - 26g Protein, 25g Carbs, 4g Fat
TOTALS: 58g Protein, 37g Carbs, 6g Fat

10:30am - PPWO - 9oz Ground Turkey - 54g Protein, 16g Fat
Totals: 54g Protein, 16g Fat

1:30pm - 9oz chicken, fish, or beef - 54g Protein (fat depending on fish or beef)
Broccoli, Asparagus, or other fiberous veggie
Totals: 54g Protein

4:30pm - 9oz ground turkey - 54g protein, 16g fat
Totals: 54g Protein, 16g Fat

7:30pm - 9oz chicken, fish, or beef - 54g Protein (fat depending on fish or beef)
Broccoli, Asparagus, or other fiberous veggie
Totals: 54g Protein

10:30pm - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat

DAILY TOTALS: 360g Protein, 64g Carbs, 48g Fat = 2128 KCals

I am coming up about 40g short on the protein, 11g short on carbs, and 13g OVER on fats. Please help me make adjustments! Note that I am not taking in any carbs (other than fiberous veggies) after my PWO meal. This is because I sit at a desk ALL DAY LONG and don't want to fuel up on carbs for nothing. Since i'm 11g shy at the end of the day, I think I could add some carbs to my PPWO meal, what do you think? I also need to cut out some fats, not sure where since most of it is coming from my meats which I need. Remember my goal is to reach 10% body fat, please help me!!!

By reading your diet it is clear your liver and kidneys are under stress, bear that in mind.
The relation between proteins and carbs is around 5,62. A healthy one should be around 0,75!
The way you diet is an old methodology, which can be run just for a couple of weeks at the end of a dieting process when you have already reached at least 12% bf. However, even in that case, something must be changed indeed.

Try at least to reduce your protein intake to 300 g avoiding to take so many protides in the morning (4:45) to have a workout just a hour later.
While, add some more carbs (low gi) and EFA at that time.
Drink just mineral and natural water (bottled), no more than a gallon and a half per day.

Not much more I can tell you since you are forcing your body to use amino acids to be converted into energy when needed. Your type of diet is all about this.
In my opinion, you will not go down to 10% in this way but just, in the process, will ruin your skin elasticity, stress your liver, kidneys and least but not last your heart!

[gbrice75]

By reading your diet it is clear your liver and kidneys are under stress, bear that in mind.
The relation between proteins and carbs is around 5,62. A healthy one should be around 0,75!
The way you diet is an old methodology, which can be run just for a couple of weeks at the end of a dieting process when you have already reached at least 12% bf. However, even in that case, something must be changed indeed.

Try at least to reduce your protein intake to 300 g avoiding to take so many protides in the morning (4:45) to have a workout just a hour later.
While, add some more carbs (low gi) and EFA at that time.
Drink just mineral and natural water (bottled), no more than a gallon and a half per day.

Not much more I can tell you since you are forcing your body to use amino acids to be converted into energy when needed. Your type of diet is all about this.
In my opinion, you will not go down to 10% in this way but just, in the process, will ruin your skin elasticity, stress your liver, kidneys and least but not last your heart!

BJJ - I didn't realize my diet was that bad. What specifically is so bad about it? Too much protein? What about the 2-3g per lb. of body weight 'rule of thumb'? I have no problem reducing my protein intake to 300g daily which equates to 1200 calories. I need to make up the additional 1000 calories through carbs and good fats.

Why do you say that i'm forcing my body to use amino acids to be converted into energy? Is this because you don't think i'm getting enough carbs/fats?

I certainly am not interested in ruining my skin, liver, kidneys or heart - I AM interested in getting down to 10% body fat. Please help me accomplish this! I have revised my diet 5 times in the past 1.5 months just to be told it sucks each time!

PS - I appreciate your feedback, I am just getting frustrated because I don't know what I should be doing, and everybody is telling me different things - i.e. increase carbs, reduce carbs, etc. etc.

I am SICK of carrying around this body fat and would LOVE to be well on my way to 10% by this June. I would GREATLY appreciate ANYBODY who can help me accomplish this goal! I am not looking for the easy way out by asking for help; I have done a ton of research, but wind up more confused then before I started because there is so much contradictory information out there!

~Frustrated

[mg1228]

BJJ - I didn't realize my diet was that bad. What specifically is so bad about it? Too much protein? What about the 2-3g per lb. of body weight 'rule of thumb'? I have no problem reducing my protein intake to 300g daily which equates to 1200 calories. I need to make up the additional 1000 calories through carbs and good fats.

Why do you say that i'm forcing my body to use amino acids to be converted into energy? Is this because you don't think i'm getting enough carbs/fats?

I certainly am not interested in ruining my skin, liver, kidneys or heart - I AM interested in getting down to 10% body fat. Please help me accomplish this! I have revised my diet 5 times in the past 1.5 months just to be told it sucks each time!

PS - I appreciate your feedback, I am just getting frustrated because I don't know what I should be doing, and everybody is telling me different things - i.e. increase carbs, reduce carbs, etc. etc.

I am SICK of carrying around this body fat and would LOVE to be well on my way to 10% by this June. I would GREATLY appreciate ANYBODY who can help me accomplish this goal! I am not looking for the easy way out by asking for help; I have done a ton of research, but wind up more confused then before I started because there is so much contradictory information out there!

~Frustrated

its easy get rid of the shakes and whey as i stated above and replace with real food---then take ur calories (2200) do a 40/40/20 split---in other words 40% of those 2200 cals come from protein 40% from low gi carbs 20% from fat---re-do ur diet to look like that and repost it--put most of the carbs earlier in the day and leave the pro/fat meals for later in the day------make sure u eat fibrous carbs too------do it like this and i guarantee it will work---i just did it----dont belive me check out my before and after in the members pics section----dont get frustrated--------people will tell u lower carbs up carbs etc...thats because thats what they prefer---and they both will work---just re-do ur macros and re-post and an expert will tweak it for ya

[mg1228]

im sure bjj knows what hes talking about---but hes being a little to technical for u and me for that matter---hell i dont even know what hes talking about with those ratios and stuff---it aint that hard----maybe its cause hes from another country or something---translation problem idk---

[gbrice75]

its easy get rid of the shakes and whey as i stated above and replace with real food---then take ur calories (2200) do a 40/40/20 split---in other words 40% of those 2200 cals come from protein 40% from low gi carbs 20% from fat---re-do ur diet to look like that and repost it--put most of the carbs earlier in the day and leave the pro/fat meals for later in the day------make sure u eat fibrous carbs too------do it like this and i guarantee it will work---i just did it----dont belive me check out my before and after in the members pics section----dont get frustrated--------people will tell u lower carbs up carbs etc...thats because thats what they prefer---and they both will work---just re-do ur macros and re-post and an expert will tweak it for ya

MG - thanks man, I appreciate you watching my thread and your ongoing help with this. I did the calculations and if I were to do a 40/40/20 split for 2200 daily calories, that would equate to 220g protein, 220g carbs, 50g fat. I am not doubting your knowledge, you CLEARLY know more than I do, but it seems a bit low in protein and a bit high in carbs for a person with significant body fat like myself (16%-18%). Almost everything i've read or heard says 2-3g of protein per lb. of body weight; at 220g i'm not even getting 1.5g per pound.

Do you think it would be at all beneficial to get bring the protein up to 300g and reduce the carbs down to 140g - thereby getting sufficient protein and reducing the risk of 'leftover' carbs. Please keep in mind that when I leave the gym, I sit an hour to get to work, sit 9 hours in an office, than another hour home - i'm sitting ALL DAY LONG and have very little energy requirements post-workout.

Please don't take what i'm saying above as argumentative; I am just very concerned with high carb intake, and not getting enough protein and losing lean mass (which I have NONE to spare, so...) - I hope you understand!

~George

[gbrice75]

MG - I checked out your pics in the members pictures section and I must say, VERY impressive. If I read correctly, you went from pic1 to pic2 in 4 months? That's amazing IMO. I think you're body in the before pic looks alot like mine now, although it looks like you had more muscle than I do now.

In all fairness, I also have to ask - were you taking ANYTHING during this period (i.e. gear or any other supplement)?

Either way, I would LOVE to look like you in 4 months, then I can finally start trying to put on some muscle.

[mg1228]

MG - thanks man, I appreciate you watching my thread and your ongoing help with this. I did the calculations and if I were to do a 40/40/20 split for 2200 daily calories, that would equate to 220g protein, 220g carbs, 50g fat. I am not doubting your knowledge, you CLEARLY know more than I do, but it seems a bit low in protein and a bit high in carbs for a person with significant body fat like myself (16%-18%). Almost everything i've read or heard says 2-3g of protein per lb. of body weight; at 220g i'm not even getting 1.5g per pound.

Do you think it would be at all beneficial to get bring the protein up to 300g and reduce the carbs down to 140g - thereby getting sufficient protein and reducing the risk of 'leftover' carbs. Please keep in mind that when I leave the gym, I sit an hour to get to work, sit 9 hours in an office, than another hour home - i'm sitting ALL DAY LONG and have very little energy requirements post-workout.

Please don't take what i'm saying above as argumentative; I am just very concerned with high carb intake, and not getting enough protein and losing lean mass (which I have NONE to spare, so...) - I hope you understand!

~George

no problem--in no way do u need 2-3gr per lb--this is the exact split(40/40/20) i was on even to the calories--except i did 2100 cals on off days and 2700 on WO days--and did a high carb day every week(300-350 carbs) i was on test and tren for 10 weeks during diet----but i did same cycle to get to the bfor pic aswell(just didnt know how to eat) imo, its all in the diet---by the way i didnt put that diet together---nark did---if u dont know who that is, its the guy giving free diet advice in the sticky at the top of the page---very respected guy and he is an expert--im just going off what ive learned on this site since feb.---that being said ive heard u can take 2gr pro per lb in a bulking diet never 3---.75-1 gr per lb is plenty to maintain lbm if not gain some--u could lower carbs to 200 and do alittle more pro if u want----prob wont make that much diff-------re-post it and let the experts put the final touches on it(meal timing etc.) and then give it a month u will see the results---and if theyre not what u want then repost at that point and tweak it again----id be willing to bet that 40/40/20 will do the trick---keep us posted with updates too---i was in ur shoes in feb of this year------dont forget the cardio, i did 30-45 min low intensity on tues thurs sat and if i felt like it on sun---do it at 65-70% of ur max hr (220-ur age x 65%) oh yea i work from home--so talk about sedetary---during that time i would work out in the AM then eat lunch and then take a 2 hr nap in the afternoon..dont wonder or worry how ur body will respond just do it,lol....

[BJJ]

Look, I am quite busy with work now but as soon as possible I will advise you more, if you want.

mg1228, I am not a native English speaker but numbers are always numbers, no matter what language one speaks.

[mg1228]

Look, I am quite busy with work now but as soon as possible I will advise you more, if you want.

mg1228, I am not a native English speaker but numbers are always numbers, no matter what language one speaks.

no prob,im sure u know more than i---i think the ratios were throwing us off---maybe the commas aswell--not neccesarily the numbers---im sure i wasnt the only one confused

[gbrice75]

no problem--in no way do u need 2-3gr per lb--this is the exact split(40/40/20) i was on even to the calories--except i did 2100 cals on off days and 2700 on WO days--and did a high carb day every week(300-350 carbs) i was on test and tren for 10 weeks during diet----but i did same cycle to get to the bfor pic aswell(just didnt know how to eat) imo, its all in the diet---by the way i didnt put that diet together---nark did---if u dont know who that is, its the guy giving free diet advice in the sticky at the top of the page---very respected guy and he is an expert--im just going off what ive learned on this site since feb.---that being said ive heard u can take 2gr pro per lb in a bulking diet never 3---.75-1 gr per lb is plenty to maintain lbm if not gain some--u could lower carbs to 200 and do alittle more pro if u want----prob wont make that much diff-------re-post it and let the experts put the final touches on it(meal timing etc.) and then give it a month u will see the results---and if theyre not what u want then repost at that point and tweak it again----id be willing to bet that 40/40/20 will do the trick---keep us posted with updates too---i was in ur shoes in feb of this year------dont forget the cardio, i did 30-45 min low intensity on tues thurs sat and if i felt like it on sun---do it at 65-70% of ur max hr (220-ur age x 65%) oh yea i work from home--so talk about sedetary---during that time i would work out in the AM then eat lunch and then take a 2 hr nap in the afternoon..dont wonder or worry how ur body will respond just do it,lol....

MG - so the only major difference I see here is the fact that you were on gear. Not sure how much that would have affected fat loss, if at all. I'm on nothing at all. I guess I can't expect your results - a) everybody is different, and b) I am not taking any gear/supplements. What would you say you BF% is in the after pic?

Would you mind posting or PMing me some sample meals? I would love to learn more about this NARK diet...

I'm in a position to do cardio 5 days a week, so I expect that can only help my situation and not hurt. Man, if I can look anywhere near as ripped as you do (muscle or not) by June, i'd probably make a mistake in my pants! =)

[mg1228]

MG - so the only major difference I see here is the fact that you were on gear. Not sure how much that would have affected fat loss, if at all. I'm on nothing at all. I guess I can't expect your results - a) everybody is different, and b) I am not taking any gear/supplements. What would you say you BF% is in the after pic?

Would you mind posting or PMing me some sample meals? I would love to learn more about this NARK diet...

I'm in a position to do cardio 5 days a week, so I expect that can only help my situation and not hurt. Man, if I can look anywhere near as ripped as you do (muscle or not) by June, i'd probably make a mistake in my pants! =)

imo--i dont think the gear did much but make my wife sore for 10 weeks if u know what i mean, lol---------my bf% is prob 7-8% after-----5 days of cardio def aint a bad thing but i dont think u need all that to begin with cause remember as ur body adapts to what ur doin the fat loss will slow so at that point u can up the cardio--------as far as looking like me, i said the same thing in feb when i was looking at a before and after thread some guy posted and i shit u not i look way better now than he did then---so there ya go-----------now go work on that diet and repost it-----------if i was u i would re-post it in a new thread(maybe revised cut diet) so the experts will look at it------------1 other thing, once u start the diet take pics once a week so u can see the progress ur making-really motivating to keep it up---i still go back and look at em week by week to see the changes

[mg1228]

i'll post my diet nark helped me with shortly---his concept is basically the 40/40/20 split and just choose foods that are acceptable and at the right time of day

[gcguiness]

Wow, I have alot to learn as well, should one be doing the 40/40/20 to get the bf off, and will it do this quickly?

[mg1228]

Wow, I have alot to learn as well, should one be doing the 40/40/20 to get the bf off, and will it do this quickly?

all i know is it worked for me---dont know what ur idea of quickly is----wont do it in a week or nothing---took me bout 3 mo

[mg1228]

meal 1- shake 3/4 cup oats with 1/2 skim milk cal 525 pro 61 ca 55 f 4.5
workout
pwo shake w banana along w some simple carbs ie 10oz gatorade oatmeal cookie
meal 3- 8oz chicken breast w cup brown rice cal 436 pro 51 ca 45 f 7
meal 5- 1 cup oats w 1 cup skim cal 380 pro 18 ca 65 f 6
meal 6- 8oz chicken breast or 8 oz sirloin or filet w 1 cup brown rice and salad fat free italian cal 536 pro 55 ca 45 f 7 (filet or sirloin add 18g fat)
meal 7- shake 2 sc whey/casein mix w 1tsp flax seed cal 530 pro 48 ca 28 f 24
total cal 2407 pro 233 ca 238 f 49 not including pwo shake cal 350 p48 c6 f 2

this is what i originally posted for nark to look at------basically took out all milk and used water with oats with splenda and cinnamon--------took out simple carbs PWO and ate 3/4 oats again, no gatorade or oatmeal cookie---------where it says sirloin or filet in meal 6 i stuck to sirloin or 96% lean gr beef----------and in meal 7 i would substitute with 3 eggs and natty pb 3 nights a week or so----------didnt eat any bread for the 1st month or so nor did i cheat----but i did introduce ezeikiel bread as i went along------got tired of the brown rice pretty quick and started using sweet potatoes with splenda and cinnamon, i ate these alot more than the rice--------hope this helps, like i said it was right at 2100 cals on cardio dayss and 2700 on WO days----after 2mo i did lower cals on both days by 2-250 because fat loss had slowed and this seemed to work-----------------also did a high carb day every 7th day but not till i was into it about 3 weeks or so----gbrice, if u havent watched the milos videos on the bodybuilder diet u need to---it really helped me------if u dont know what im talking about could someone post them please-----or u could seach the diet forum for them---they get posted all the time in here for new guys asking about diet