Revised Cutting Diet - Needs Critiquing and Tweaking

[gbrice75]

Hi all, based on feedback from various members and one in particular, I have decided to revise my diet to a 40/40/20 split. I have seen this person's before and after pictures, and the results were amazing. If I can come even close to these results, I will be ecstatic. I should note that NARK helped him come up with his diet plan, so I have alot of confidence in this. Before I post my diet and related info, I have to give you some background so you know exactly where i'm coming from:

I started working out December of last year. I was 255lbs and grossly out of shape. Being all but ignorant about proper dieting, I went the wrong way and took in very low daily calories, around 1300-1500. I was also only eating 4 meals a day, spaced 4-5 hours apart - not good! I was also only getting about 120g protein and way too many carbs. Through caloric restriction alone, I managed to drop 60lbs but am SURE alot of it was lean mass, especially considering the amount of body fat I still have today.

After 5-6 months, 'weight' loss pretty much stopped. I adjusted my diet and starting taking in 2000 calories per day over several smaller meals. I obviously still had things wrong, because fat loss never picked back up.

I found this board and started revising my diet based on members suggestions, however alot of what I was being told was contradictory and I became more confused and frustrated. I am hoping that this new diet (which I plan on starting 1st week of January) will do the trick as it did SO WELL for this other member. Below are my stats and proposed diet:

Age: 34
Height: 5'11
Weight: 195lbs
BF % : Estimated at 16% - 18% (check my pics in the appropriate forum)
BMR: based on the less accurate Harris Benedict Formula, it's 2000. Since I do not know my true BF%, I cannot use the more accurate Katch-McArdle formula
TDEE: Again, it may be inaccurate (and probably is since I have not lost any fat in months) but based on Harris Benedict, it's 2600
Short Term Goal: Cut to reach 10% bodyfat (or lower) - if that can be done by June, I would be thrilled!
Long Term Goal: after cutting, adding lean mass to reach 200lbs at 10% bodyfat

PROPOSED DIET

Daily Macro Goals: 250g protein, 190g carbs, 50g fat
This is CLOSE to a 40/40/20 split, but I have upped protein by 30g and reduced carbs by 30g. This is because after my am workout, I am inactive ALL DAY (hour drive to work, sit at a desk for 9 hours, hour drive home, go to bed) and am concerned about taking in too many carbs without the need for all that energy.

4:30am - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat - 160 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 3g Fat (not counting 10g of incomplete protein) - 200 calories (bread is wholesome, no high fructose corn syrup, etc)
TOTALS: 30g Protein, 32g Carbs, 6g Fat - 360 Cals

WORKOUT

7:30am - PWO - Whey Shake in Skim Milk - 32g Protein, 14g Carbs, 2g Fat - 207 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 3g Fat - 200 Cals (this will be changed to oats but I don't have the macros at the moment)
TOTALS: 32g Protein, 44g Carbs, 5g Fat - 407 cals

10:30am - PPWO - 6oz ground turkey - 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 6g Fat - 200 Cals (again, this will be changed to oats)
TOTALS: 36g Protein, 30g Carbs, 18g Fat - 452 cals

1:30pm - 6oz chicken, beef, or fish - 36g Protein (fat based type of meat), 144 cals
1 Cup Brown Rice - 45g Carbs, 2g Fat - 215 cals
TOTALS: 36g Protein, 45g Carbs, 2g Fat - 359 cals

4:30pm - 6oz ground turkey - 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 cals
Fiberous Veggie - Broccoli or Asparagus

TOTALS: 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 Cals

7:30pm - 6oz chicken, fish, or beef - 36g Protein (fat based on type of meat) - 144 cals
Fiberous Veggie - Broccoli or Asparagus
TOTALS: 36g Protein - 144 Cals

10:30pm - Bedtime Meal - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat - 160 cals
TOTALS: 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat

GRAND DAILY TOTALS: 236g Protein, 153g Carbs, 46g Fat - 1970 Cals

As you can see, i'm coming up about 15g short on protein, 40g short on carbs, and OVER on fats considering I did not calculate any fat content for meals 1:30pm and 7:30pm. Overall calories should be above 2000. I am not sure if i'm hitting the 2200 that I wanted to, but this may be ok because I am not so certain anymore that my TDEE is 2600 - remember that I haven't lost any body fat in MONTHS!

Anyway, that's my story - thanks for sticking with me and I appreciate ANY feedback and advice you can offer!

[mg1228]

1/2 cup of oats is 150 cals pro 5 carbs 27 fat 3---this is layed out good---these guys should b able to help u here

[gbrice75]

1/2 cup of oats is 150 cals pro 5 carbs 27 fat 3---this is layed out good---these guys should b able to help u here

Thanks man, very anxious to get started! I just hope I have a full plan in place prior to the 1st week of January!

[mg1228]

bump

[Turkey]

Hi all, based on feedback from various members and one in particular, I have decided to revise my diet to a 40/40/20 split. I have seen this person's before and after pictures, and the results were amazing. If I can come even close to these results, I will be ecstatic. I should note that NARK helped him come up with his diet plan, so I have alot of confidence in this. Before I post my diet and related info, I have to give you some background so you know exactly where i'm coming from:

I started working out December of last year. I was 255lbs and grossly out of shape. Being all but ignorant about proper dieting, I went the wrong way and took in very low daily calories, around 1300-1500. I was also only eating 4 meals a day, spaced 4-5 hours apart - not good! I was also only getting about 120g protein and way too many carbs. Through caloric restriction alone, I managed to drop 60lbs but am SURE alot of it was lean mass, especially considering the amount of body fat I still have today.

After 5-6 months, 'weight' loss pretty much stopped. I adjusted my diet and starting taking in 2000 calories per day over several smaller meals. I obviously still had things wrong, because fat loss never picked back up.

I found this board and started revising my diet based on members suggestions, however alot of what I was being told was contradictory and I became more confused and frustrated. I am hoping that this new diet (which I plan on starting 1st week of January) will do the trick as it did SO WELL for this other member. Below are my stats and proposed diet:

Age: 34
Height: 5'11
Weight: 195lbs
BF % : Estimated at 16% - 18% (check my pics in the appropriate forum)
BMR: based on the less accurate Harris Benedict Formula, it's 2000. Since I do not know my true BF%, I cannot use the more accurate Katch-McArdle formula
TDEE: Again, it may be inaccurate (and probably is since I have not lost any fat in months) but based on Harris Benedict, it's 2600
Short Term Goal: Cut to reach 10% bodyfat (or lower) - if that can be done by June, I would be thrilled!
Long Term Goal: after cutting, adding lean mass to reach 200lbs at 10% bodyfat

PROPOSED DIET

Daily Macro Goals: 250g protein, 190g carbs, 50g fat
This is CLOSE to a 40/40/20 split, but I have upped protein by 30g and reduced carbs by 30g. This is because after my am workout, I am inactive ALL DAY (hour drive to work, sit at a desk for 9 hours, hour drive home, go to bed) and am concerned about taking in too many carbs without the need for all that energy.

4:30am - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat - 160 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 3g Fat (not counting 10g of incomplete protein) - 200 calories (bread is wholesome, no high fructose corn syrup, etc)
TOTALS: 30g Protein, 32g Carbs, 6g Fat - 360 Cals

WORKOUT

7:30am - PWO - Whey Shake in Skim Milk - 32g Protein, 14g Carbs, 2g Fat - 207 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 3g Fat - 200 Cals (this will be changed to oats but I don't have the macros at the moment)
TOTALS: 32g Protein, 44g Carbs, 5g Fat - 407 cals

10:30am - PPWO - 6oz ground turkey - 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 6g Fat - 200 Cals (again, this will be changed to oats)
TOTALS: 36g Protein, 30g Carbs, 18g Fat - 452 cals

1:30pm - 6oz chicken, beef, or fish - 36g Protein (fat based type of meat), 144 cals
1 Cup Brown Rice - 45g Carbs, 2g Fat - 215 cals
TOTALS: 36g Protein, 45g Carbs, 2g Fat - 359 cals

4:30pm - 6oz ground turkey - 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 cals
Fiberous Veggie - Broccoli or Asparagus

TOTALS: 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 Cals

7:30pm - 6oz chicken, fish, or beef - 36g Protein (fat based on type of meat) - 144 cals
Fiberous Veggie - Broccoli or Asparagus
TOTALS: 36g Protein - 144 Cals

10:30pm - Bedtime Meal - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat - 160 cals
TOTALS: 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat

GRAND DAILY TOTALS: 236g Protein, 153g Carbs, 46g Fat - 1970 Cals

As you can see, i'm coming up about 15g short on protein, 40g short on carbs, and OVER on fats considering I did not calculate any fat content for meals 1:30pm and 7:30pm. Overall calories should be above 2000. I am not sure if i'm hitting the 2200 that I wanted to, but this may be ok because I am not so certain anymore that my TDEE is 2600 - remember that I haven't lost any body fat in MONTHS!

Anyway, that's my story - thanks for sticking with me and I appreciate ANY feedback and advice you can offer!

question, what is your workout: weights, cardio, or both?

perhaps it's time to either separate the 2, or amp up the cardio

IMO, your total daily calorie goal is too low. i think this may be leading to a slowed metabolism, and w/o enough/proper cardio, it's keeping it slow.

your diet looks fine the way it is. the bread should be eliminated, and replaced with oats, beans, etc. it's your calculated TDEE which is sort of signaling that your metabolism may need a boost

[Turkey]

-i would change the bed time meal to something with casein pro; shakes go right thru you

-don't worry about being 'short' on your carb total, try the 150-160 range for now

-IMO, the amount of protein is fine for now

-incorporate some EFAs into your 4:30pm and 7:30pm meals, by eating a fatty fish, or some flax oil or nuts

[gbrice75]

-i would change the bed time meal to something with casein pro; shakes go right thru you

-don't worry about being 'short' on your carb total, try the 150-160 range for now

-IMO, the amount of protein is fine for now

-incorporate some EFAs into your 4:30pm and 7:30pm meals, by eating a fatty fish, or some flax oil or nuts

Turkey - thanks for the feedback. The shake I drink before bed contains casein protein (among other 'blends') - do you mean to eliminate the shake alltogether regardless of the protein type and replace with real food? Can you provide some examples of foods containing casein protein?

Understood about the carbs, they're probably the least of my concern for now.

I can easily throw down some almonds in my later meals, but i'm concerned about fats being too high as i'm already at 50g daily with the above diet... unfortunately none of the fats i'm getting from the meats are good fats...and I obviously can't cut out the meat. If I did salmon for the 7:30pm meal that would help. What about tuna - is it high in O-M-E-G-A-3 or 6?

[gbrice75]

question, what is your workout: weights, cardio, or both?

perhaps it's time to either separate the 2, or amp up the cardio

IMO, your total daily calorie goal is too low. i think this may be leading to a slowed metabolism, and w/o enough/proper cardio, it's keeping it slow.

your diet looks fine the way it is. the bread should be eliminated, and replaced with oats, beans, etc. it's your calculated TDEE which is sort of signaling that your metabolism may need a boost

My workout is weights first, 1/2 hour of cardio immediately following. Due to my schedule it would be near impossible to separate the 2... the cardio could probably use more intensity though. =)

The problem with my daily caloric goal is that I don't truly know my BMR or TDEE - without having a good idea of either, it's all guessing. Let's say the calories are a bit too low - wouldn't the workout/cardio and eating every 3 hours throughout the entire day help keep the metabolism from slowing?

Just out of curiosity - what is wrong with whole grain/whole wheat bread? I tried finding bread with the least amount of 'crap' in it (high fructose corn syrup, etc.).

[Turkey]

My workout is weights first, 1/2 hour of cardio immediately following. Due to my schedule it would be near impossible to separate the 2... the cardio could probably use more intensity though. =)

The problem with my daily caloric goal is that I don't truly know my BMR or TDEE - without having a good idea of either, it's all guessing. Let's say the calories are a bit too low - wouldn't the workout/cardio and eating every 3 hours throughout the entire day help keep the metabolism from slowing?

Just out of curiosity - what is wrong with whole grain/whole wheat bread? I tried finding bread with the least amount of 'crap' in it (high fructose corn syrup, etc.).

try 15-20 minutes HIIT after weights, or at least just do intervals -- no steady state slow-go cardio

the benefits of this type of cardio include a surge in your metabolism for several hours, natural GH release, and it gets you in good shape. try 3-4 times a week for now. make sure to get that PWO nutrition asap.

the issue with bread is it's low nutritive value when compared to a food like sweet (or white) potatoes, beans, or oats. it's fine once a day, but really no more.

taking into consideration you're 'watching' your carb intake, you might as well make sure you're consuming the best sources.

[gbrice75]

try 15-20 minutes HIIT after weights, or at least just do intervals -- no steady state slow-go cardio

the benefits of this type of cardio include a surge in your metabolism for several hours, natural GH release, and it gets you in good shape. try 3-4 times a week for now. make sure to get that PWO nutrition asap.

the issue with bread is it's low nutritive value when compared to a food like sweet (or white) potatoes, beans, or oats. it's fine once a day, but really no more.

taking into consideration you're 'watching' your carb intake, you might as well make sure you're consuming the best sources.

Good to know about the HIIT, because as it is I do something similar a couple days a week (while the other days are the steady state slow-go as you put it!) - on the treadmill i'll walk at a brisk pace for 2 minutes, then run at a fast pace (faster than I would normally jog steadily) for 2 minutes, and repeat over a 30 minute period. I do the same on the elliptical, but it's 2 minutes slow, 1 minute fast - but during the fast minute I KILL IT. Is this close to what you had in mind?

Too bad about the bread, it's so convenient! I thought a good whole grain bread such as wheat had a higher nutritional value, but I'll have to switch to the oats for sure. You're right, if carb macro intake is a concern, I should also be concerned with what that carb is coming from as well.

[mg1228]

eziekiel bread is a good choice

[mg1228]

if ur gonna do a shake at bedtime---make it a casein pro shake--slower digestion---although real food is better----alot of guys do cottage cheese--but i cant do it

[Damienm05]

IMO, for BB cutting goals, nothing is better than casein shake. Cottage cheese equivalent to 2 scoops of casein protein is gonna be 10+ grams of sugar and double the calories. I only eat cottage cheese when I'm craving something sweet/delicious and I have it as ice cream.

[Turkey]

eziekiel bread is a good choice

like i said, once a day, something like ezekiel bread (optimal bread choice) is ok

bread's greatest feature is its convenience, in that it's ready-to-eat when you are

yet compared to even a white potato, it doesn't have the same nutritional/vitamin value, aside from being low-cal and fibrous

if you were on a bulker, I'd be a bigger advocate for bread eaten in a couple of your meals; while cutting, make it a carb source at most once a day

[gbrice75]

@mg and Damien - the Premier Protein Shakes I buy contain a protein blend of Milk Protein Concentrate, Whey Protein Concentrate, Calcium Caseinate - is this acceptable or should it be 100% casein before bed?

[mg1228]

@mg and Damien - the Premier Protein Shakes I buy contain a protein blend of Milk Protein Concentrate, Whey Protein Concentrate, Calcium Caseinate - is this acceptable or should it be 100% casein before bed?

i use ON 100% casein 120 cals 24 pro 3 carbs .5 fat

[mg1228]

like i said, once a day, something like ezekiel bread (optimal bread choice) is ok

bread's greatest feature is its convenience, in that it's ready-to-eat when you are

yet compared to even a white potato, it doesn't have the same nutritional/vitamin value, aside from being low-cal and fibrous

if you were on a bulker, I'd be a bigger advocate for bread eaten in a couple of your meals; while cutting, make it a carb source at most once a day

agreed---brice i didnt do any kind of bread till about halfway through--and then it was eziekiel bread-----mostly sweet potatoes and oats

[gbrice75]

i use ON 100% casein 120 cals 24 pro 3 carbs .5 fat

Do you know if they make these pre-mixed/ready to drink? I'm usually half asleep by the time I eat my bedtime meal, and would hate to have to bust out the blender, etc.

As for cottage cheese, the only type I can stomach is the one with pineapple. Unfortunately i'd have to eat close to 2 cups which would also provide a hefty 45+ grams of carbs right before bed - definitely don't need that!

[gbrice75]

PS - Turkey and mg - thank you for your ongoing help, it's much appreciated!

Anybody else want to pick apart the diet as a whole and let me know what if any changes I should make?

[mg1228]

Do you know if they make these pre-mixed/ready to drink? I'm usually half asleep by the time I eat my bedtime meal, and would hate to have to bust out the blender, etc.

As for cottage cheese, the only type I can stomach is the one with pineapple. Unfortunately i'd have to eat close to 2 cups which would also provide a hefty 45+ grams of carbs right before bed - definitely don't need that!

don't think they make it pre mixed--i use aliitle handheld mixer, I just mix it up right in my cup----yea skip the cottage cheese

[Twist]

Hi all, based on feedback from various members and one in particular, I have decided to revise my diet to a 40/40/20 split. I have seen this person's before and after pictures, and the results were amazing. If I can come even close to these results, I will be ecstatic. I should note that NARK helped him come up with his diet plan, so I have alot of confidence in this. Before I post my diet and related info, I have to give you some background so you know exactly where i'm coming from:

I started working out December of last year. I was 255lbs and grossly out of shape. Being all but ignorant about proper dieting, I went the wrong way and took in very low daily calories, around 1300-1500. I was also only eating 4 meals a day, spaced 4-5 hours apart - not good! I was also only getting about 120g protein and way too many carbs. Through caloric restriction alone, I managed to drop 60lbs but am SURE alot of it was lean mass, especially considering the amount of body fat I still have today.
no way you lost 60lbs of lean mass, you might have lost some, but at a high bf % it is easy to drop fat
After 5-6 months, 'weight' loss pretty much stopped. I adjusted my diet and starting taking in 2000 calories per day over several smaller meals. I obviously still had things wrong, because fat loss never picked back up.

I found this board and started revising my diet based on members suggestions, however alot of what I was being told was contradictory and I became more confused and frustrated. I am hoping that this new diet (which I plan on starting 1st week of January) will do the trick as it did SO WELL for this other member. Below are my stats and proposed diet:

Age: 34
Height: 5'11
Weight: 195lbs
BF % : Estimated at 16% - 18% (check my pics in the appropriate forum)
BMR: based on the less accurate Harris Benedict Formula, it's 2000. Since I do not know my true BF%, I cannot use the more accurate Katch-McArdle formula
TDEE: Again, it may be inaccurate (and probably is since I have not lost any fat in months) but based on Harris Benedict, it's 2600
Short Term Goal: Cut to reach 10% bodyfat (or lower) - if that can be done by June, I would be thrilled!
Long Term Goal: after cutting, adding lean mass to reach 200lbs at 10% bodyfat

PROPOSED DIET

Daily Macro Goals: 250g protein, 190g carbs, 50g fat
This is CLOSE to a 40/40/20 split, but I have upped protein by 30g and reduced carbs by 30g. This is because after my am workout, I am inactive ALL DAY (hour drive to work, sit at a desk for 9 hours, hour drive home, go to bed) and am concerned about taking in too many carbs without the need for all that energy.

4:30am - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat - 160 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 3g Fat (not counting 10g of incomplete protein) - 200 calories (bread is wholesome, no high fructose corn syrup, etc)
TOTALS: 30g Protein, 32g Carbs, 6g Fat - 360 Cals
****carbs are ok here, however do to the nature of your cut, I would change 60% of ALL of your carbs to veggies; especially in the meals following your workouts

WORKOUT

7:30am - PWO - Whey Shake in Skim Milk - 32g Protein, 14g Carbs, 2g Fat - 207 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 3g Fat - 200 Cals (this will be changed to oats but I don't have the macros at the moment)
TOTALS: 32g Protein, 44g Carbs, 5g Fat - 407 cals
****I don't like processed foods, however it might not be a big deal to you, I would do pro/fat after this meal. I see oats in there, it is the same deal, but a little better than bread.

10:30am - PPWO - 6oz ground turkey - 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 cals
2 slices whole wheat bread - 30g Carbs, 6g Fat - 200 Cals (again, this will be changed to oats)
TOTALS: 36g Protein, 30g Carbs, 18g Fat - 452 cals
****ok. Idk why you are doing the 40/40/20 split, but we will discuss that later.

1:30pm - 6oz chicken, beef, or fish - 36g Protein (fat based type of meat), 144 cals
1 Cup Brown Rice - 45g Carbs, 2g Fat - 215 cals
TOTALS: 36g Protein, 45g Carbs, 2g Fat - 359 cals
****from here on, I would do fibrous veggie carbs, meaning make this one veggie too.

4:30pm - 6oz ground turkey - 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 cals
Fiberous Veggie - Broccoli or Asparagus

TOTALS: 36g Protein, 12g Fat - 252 Cals
****good

7:30pm - 6oz chicken, fish, or beef - 36g Protein (fat based on type of meat) - 144 cals
Fiberous Veggie - Broccoli or Asparagus
TOTALS: 36g Protein - 144 Cals
****stick with fish and chicken unless it is your last meal in which it should be pro/fat with beef(lean) as your protein source.

10:30pm - Bedtime Meal - Premier Protein Shake - 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat - 160 cals
TOTALS: 30g Protein, 2g Carbs, 3g Fat

GRAND DAILY TOTALS: 236g Protein, 153g Carbs, 46g Fat - 1970 Cals

As you can see, i'm coming up about 15g short on protein, 40g short on carbs, and OVER on fats considering I did not calculate any fat content for meals 1:30pm and 7:30pm. Overall calories should be above 2000. I am not sure if i'm hitting the 2200 that I wanted to, but this may be ok because I am not so certain anymore that my TDEE is 2600 - remember that I haven't lost any body fat in MONTHS!

Anyway, that's my story - thanks for sticking with me and I appreciate ANY feedback and advice you can offer!

Ok so I looked at your pics and you look like you have a decent base, but we need to get the bf down. I would up your carbs by 40g like stated above and do 60-70% of them as asparagus, broccoli, etc. If you are looking for an easy way, peas are very dense in carbs.

upping your protein should be easy.

I would eat at about 200-300 lower than your tdee and I would do at least an hour of cardio PWO. DO NOT do the elliptical. Do cardio that is hard like stairmaster, treadmill, rowing, etc. Do HIIT for the first 30 minutes of the cardio session, doing at least 5 HIcardio minutes (I do HI once every 5 minutes PWO).

I think it is a good thing that you workout in the morning, because your body is in fat burning mode for a good time after the gym, but you may want to try working out later in the day. This way while you sleep your body will be scrambling for the food you eat to be used as building blocks, and hopefully not storing anything.

I also have a feeling you are overtraining. You have that look.

[gbrice75]

Ok so I looked at your pics and you look like you have a decent base, but we need to get the bf down. I would up your carbs by 40g like stated above and do 60-70% of them as asparagus, broccoli, etc. If you are looking for an easy way, peas are very dense in carbs. I agree with you about switching carbs to fiberous veggies by the 1:30pm meal - don't want to be taking in starchy carbs mid to late in the day. I just wasn't sure how else to reach the carb macro goal; I hadn't thought of fiberous veggies for this because I was under the impression they are all filling and full of fiber, but relatively low in calories/carbs. If they can be counted towards the daily carb total, i'm all for it!

upping your protein should be easy. Yep - I just need to add an extra gram of meat here and there at certain meals - a no brainer

I would eat at about 200-300 lower than your tdee and I would do at least an hour of cardio PWO. DO NOT do the elliptical. Do cardio that is hard like stairmaster, treadmill, rowing, etc. Do HIIT for the first 30 minutes of the cardio session, doing at least 5 HIcardio minutes (I do HI once every 5 minutes PWO). I wish I truly knew my TDEE - because as it is i'm either estimating it too high and overeating/storing, or estimating it too low and undereating/slowing metabolism. Unfortunately an hour of cardio is impossible as I have to leave for work and can only afford the half hour. However when it gets warmer out I can do another half hour in the evening. I hear you about the elliptical - I love the stairmaster, it is the most kick@ss cardio out there IMO! Never thought of rowing, have to check that out, I know my gym has a rowing machine or 2.

I think it is a good thing that you workout in the morning, because your body is in fat burning mode for a good time after the gym, but you may want to try working out later in the day. This way while you sleep your body will be scrambling for the food you eat to be used as building blocks, and hopefully not storing anything. Eventually i'll burn out on the morning schedule and switch it up to evenings. But I want to run with this morning thing while I still have the 'bug' for it - makes me feel great all day!

I also have a feeling you are overtraining. You have that look.

VERY interesting - can you elaborate? What is the look you're referring to - I would love to be able to identify these things and/or know the signs to watch for. Maybe it would be a good idea to switch things up and only work out each muscle group once a week for a while and see if any new growth spurt happens? Ugh, i've tried it before and always feel like i'm undertraining!

To answer your question about why i'm planning to do the 40/40/20 split - based on the fact that it's coming from NARK as well as the before and after pics i've seen from another forum member who did that exact diet - I HAVE to give it a shot - his results were phenomenal! I just need to know how long to stick with it before I decide it's 'not working'.

Thanks Twist!

[Twist]

VERY interesting - can you elaborate? What is the look you're referring to - I would love to be able to identify these things and/or know the signs to watch for. Maybe it would be a good idea to switch things up and only work out each muscle group once a weekhere is a sign... you workout each muscle more than once a week? for a while and see if any new growth spurt happens? Ugh, i've tried it before and always feel like i'm undertraining! I know the feeling

To answer your question about why i'm planning to do the 40/40/20 split - based on the fact that it's coming from NARK as well as the before and after pics i've seen from another forum member who did that exact diet - I HAVE to give it a shot - his results were phenomenal! I just need to know how long to stick with it before I decide it's 'not working'.
I love Nark and he is great!
Thanks Twist!

40/40/20 is all good, but just fill up your carbs with green veggies. Yes, they do count toward your calorie total.

OVERTRAINING: Your little muscles (the ones that repair quickly) have good formation, and they appear as if they are being worked with a good routine. Your bigger muscles (such as chest) lack a lot. This tells me that you are not letting your muscles have a break to repair. This is why your small muscles that repair quickly are doing ok, but your bigger muscles which are getting jipped on repair time are lacking. Post up your training schedule. Be honest, I bet you are overtraining chest for sure. You have the same look as my buddy who just refuses to change his ways.

[gbrice75]

40/40/20 is all good, but just fill up your carbs with green veggies. Yes, they do count toward your calorie total.

OVERTRAINING: Your little muscles (the ones that repair quickly) have good formation, and they appear as if they are being worked with a good routine. Your bigger muscles (such as chest) lack a lot. This tells me that you are not letting your muscles have a break to repair. This is why your small muscles that repair quickly are doing ok, but your bigger muscles which are getting jipped on repair time are lacking. Post up your training schedule. Be honest, I bet you are overtraining chest for sure. You have the same look as my buddy who just refuses to change his ways.

Good stuff Twist, and what you're saying makes perfect sense. Yes, right now I train every muscle (except for legs) twice a week. Would you definitely suggest larger muscle groups to only be trained once per week? That would allow 6 full days rest before training that same group again which is why I get nervous that i'm undertraining. Bear in mind that in January, I plan on doing at least 4 weeks of a 10x10/GVT type routine where I will DEFINITELY be training each group only once per week. However, when I switch back to my 'regular' routine, which muscle groups would you suggest only be trained once per week? I would think - chest, back, legs? Then arms and shoulders twice per week? Below is my CURRENT routine:

Monday/Thursday - Chest and Tri's: - all sets to failure, reducing weight after each set to stay within target rep range
Flat Bench - 3 sets, 5-7 reps
Incline Bench - 3 sets, 5-7 reps
Incline Dumbell Fly's - 3 sets, 5-7 reps

Close Grip Bench Press - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
Tricep Press down w/ V bar or Rope - 3 sets, 7-10 reps

Tuesday/Friday - Back and Biceps - all sets to failure, reducing weight after each set to stay within target rep range
Wide Grip Pull Ups - 3 sets, usually 8-10 reps
Seated Row - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
Close Grip Lat Pulldown - 3 sets, 5-7 reps
Another rowing exercise - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
(I also throw some shoulders in on Friday, no legs on Friday)

Preacher Curls - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
Incline Dumbell Curls - 3 sets, 7-10 reps

Wednesday - Legs, Shoulders - all sets to failure, reducing weight after each set to stay within target rep range
Squat (smith), Lunges (smith), or Leg Press - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
Leg Curl - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
Calf Raises - 3 sets, as many as I can do (usually 15-20 reps)

Seated Press (bring down in front of face to top of chest) - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
Lateral Raises - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
Rear Delt Fly's (on pec deck) - 3 sets, 7-10 reps
Dumbell Shrugs - 3 sets, 7-10 reps

Like I said, I try and do the shoulder routine again on Friday. I know that's not good because i'm only allowing 1 full day of rest from doing shoulders on Wednesday, just didn't know when else to throw it in. If i'm going to be doing chest/back/legs only once per week moving forward, I will be able to fit shoulders in twice a week spaced apart better than it is now.

Let me know what you think!


Wednesday

[Twist]

Great routine! to be honest I was expecting 3 presses and 3 fly sets for chest and stuff like that.

If you go to failure truly, then do not workout more than once per week. If you did this routine with less weight and much more reps I would say twice per week ok.

Definitely give shoulders and legs their own day. and do more legs. Shoulders are big muscles, but get trained heavily during back and chest days.

remember that when pros don't make gains, they rest more. I only train every other day.

[gbrice75]

Great routine! to be honest I was expecting 3 presses and 3 fly sets for chest and stuff like that.

Thanks Twist! I have been trying to keep the exercises mostly compound mass builders for the most part. Once I start eating to gain (if I ever get down to my 10% BF goal) I hope this workout will pay off.

If you go to failure truly, then do not workout more than once per week. If you did this routine with less weight and much more reps I would say twice per week ok.

Do you mean for the larger muscle groups, or everything? I should say I go to failure as much as possible; e.g. without a spot, it's not true failure I suppose. If I had a spot i'm SURE I could grind out another rep or 2 an d really tear it up. So let's assume my last rep is completed right before a failure rep.

Definitely give shoulders and legs their own day. and do more legs. Shoulders are big muscles, but get trained heavily during back and chest days.

Do more leg exercises on leg day? What would you suggest? Maybe adding in a leg extension? I figured the squat would be enough to cover it all!

remember that when pros don't make gains, they rest more. I only train every other day.

I am going to try this week to do everything just once but am going to up the intensity to make it worthwhile. But other than that you think my routine is decent? Thanks again buddy!

[Turkey]

I think your leg workout:

-needs to be done freestanding/no smith machine
-would benefit from a 5X5 rep/set scheme on your major compound movement (preferably squat)
-I think lunges are a fantastic exercise, and could be done after squat

** since you're doing legs and shoulders on the same day, consider occasionally incorporating turkish get-ups into this workout

[Twist]

I am going to try this week to do everything just once but am going to up the intensity to make it worthwhile. But other than that you think my routine is decent? Thanks again buddy!

ok but remember you are probably overtraining, so adding intensity might not be the best idea. keep it under control. Just add intensity within your reps, not more of them.

[PO OFFICER]

No offence bro, but your protien shakes suck. You get like what, 30g per shake? I get around 52-60g per shake. Edit that a little bit.

[gbrice75]

ok but remember you are probably overtraining, so adding intensity might not be the best idea. keep it under control. Just add intensity within your reps, not more of them.

Yep, that's what I meant - just to make the reps count more than I have been...

[gbrice75]

No offence bro, but your protien shakes suck. You get like what, 30g per shake? I get around 52-60g per shake. Edit that a little bit.

No offense taken! I know they're not the best, but they are very low carb and fat - and convenient to buy in bulk at Costco, so for me the positives outweigh the negatives.

What pre-mixed shake do you use?

[Spartans09]

Buy some shakers for the casein shakes. You can scoop and shake in less than a minute.

[gbrice75]

Buy some shakers for the casein shakes. You can scoop and shake in less than a minute.

I picked up a container of ON 100% Casein powder - mixing it with 1 cup of skim milk right before bed. It actually tastes great!

Does anybody know if ON's whey protein has the same taste as the casein? If so I think I might need to switch from Dymatize Elite!

[mg1228]

I picked up a container of ON 100% Casein powder - mixing it with 1 cup of skim milk right before bed. It actually tastes great!

Does anybody know if ON's whey protein has the same taste as the casein? If so I think I might need to switch from Dymatize Elite!

the whey is just as good or better

[gbrice75]

the whey is just as good or better

Nice! I'm gonna have to make the switch, I think. Dymatize isn't bad at all IMO, but the ON - tasted like a vanilla milkshake! It's a bit more pricey too though...

[mg1228]

Nice! I'm gonna have to make the switch, I think. Dymatize isn't bad at all IMO, but the ON - tasted like a vanilla milkshake! It's a bit more pricey too though...

yea little expensive--but hey all the more reasons to cut out most shakes and eat real food, lol

[gbrice75]

yea little expensive--but hey all the more reasons to cut out most shakes and eat real food, lol

No doubt! I want that stomach of your's bro! You're my inspiration - no pressure! =P I want to get this thing off the ground already - and after the DISGUSTING eating I did this weekend, I need all the help I can get!

[mg1228]

No doubt! I want that stomach of your's bro! You're my inspiration - no pressure! =P I want to get this thing off the ground already - and after the DISGUSTING eating I did this weekend, I need all the help I can get!

youll get it--right at the time of year when it matters---summertime

[gbrice75]

youll get it--right at the time of year when it matters---summertime

I really hope so, because i'm getting so discouraged it's crazy. I'm starting to feel like a freak of nature that's incapable of losing any further body fat. I would have thought at 2200 calories i'd see SOMETHING, even if my diet wasn't perfect.

With any luck, I can start a nice clean bulk (and maybe a cycle?) next fall/winter...