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Thread: The Cyclic Ketogenic Diet.....

  1. #641
    EternalStud is offline Banned
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    god what a great diet this is. Im already carb sensitive when it comes to bulking and gain way too much fat and feel like shit when i have alot, so doing this I felt SOOOOOO great and energetic even when cutting and it took my body to a whole new level. Too bad I just recently found this, I and many others could have looked and felt a lot better if we knew about this when we first started bodybuilding. Thanks for awesome article TOP!!!

  2. #642
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    i can't find malto dextrin in any supplement/vitamin or bbing shop. What can i use instead?

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by flexerguy View Post
    i can't find malto dextrin in any supplement/vitamin or bbing shop. What can i use instead?
    Parsnips, baguette, italian bread, white rice, bagels: low-fat, high GI carbs.

  4. #644
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    yah but the diet says liquid carbs for the first recarb meals no? Does one get 30% protein for each day of the carb reload? I know it is 30% protein is consumed but 30% of what the carbs? or total calories? and how much would that be since the carbs constitute way more than the daily kcal alloted. how much fat does the rest consitute?

    16 g of Carbs per lean Body Weight in Kg (eg 51.5 kg) 825 (Carbs g) 3299 (kcal)
    Protein ??
    Fat ??
    Last edited by flexerguy; 06-23-2010 at 10:32 PM.

  5. #645
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    wow thanks for putting this back up !! great read I have to get one of the books I HAVE A GOAL to catch!

  6. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by flexerguy View Post
    yah but the diet says liquid carbs for the first recarb meals no? Does one get 30% protein for each day of the carb reload? I know it is 30% protein is consumed but 30% of what the carbs? or total calories? and how much would that be since the carbs constitute way more than the daily kcal alloted. how much fat does the rest consitute?

    16 g of Carbs per lean Body Weight in Kg (eg 51.5 kg) 825 (Carbs g) 3299 (kcal)
    Protein ??
    Fat ??
    I think people follow these CKD diets too strictly. If the goal is simply to maintain as much muscle as possible while quickly losing fat - just stick to the basics man.

    5-6 keto days: 35/65 pro/fat
    1-2 carb days: moderate pro/high carb/low fat - I think shooting for 16g per kg of lbm is a recipe for disaster. It will come down to trial and error. Start with 500g or so and see how that goes.
    Think about it, 500g of carbs is 2000 calories. Add in the standard 200g pro and inherent 40g of fat that will be in your meat/carbs and you're looking at 3160 cals for the day. I dunno about you but that's beyond most people's tdee and that's at 6g per kg of an average man's lbm. I'm not saying that the diet doesn't work as instructed but simply saying that you should start slow.

  7. #647
    flexerguy is offline Junior Member
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    SEE ABOVE to my post in regards to these following comments


    Ok well I am a small guy here 5'2 and 135 lbs....maintence is 2025 kcal and am cutting by 500 kcal for keto part.....for carb upload i just halfed the 16 g carb to 8

    so total of 1649 kcal for the carbs and did 1.25 g x my weight of 135 = 169g or 675 kcal.....which totals 2324kcal .....then stage 2 i halfed everything so carbs be about 932 kcal and i presume i add the same amount of protein

    this i spread out via the 2 days ..

    what do you think about that???
    Last edited by flexerguy; 06-24-2010 at 03:12 PM.

  8. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by flexerguy View Post

    what do you think about that???
    That works.

  9. #649
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    I bought a bag of actual flax seeds , not the oil. why does the actual seeds have carbs and the oil doesnt? enough of the seeds and it will kick me outta ketosis right?

    anyone use the seeds?

    thanks Chris

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damienm05 View Post
    I think people follow these CKD diets too strictly. If the goal is simply to maintain as much muscle as possible while quickly losing fat - just stick to the basics man.

    5-6 keto days: 35/65 pro/fat
    1-2 carb days: moderate pro/high carb/low fat - I think shooting for 16g per kg of lbm is a recipe for disaster. It will come down to trial and error. Start with 500g or so and see how that goes.
    Think about it, 500g of carbs is 2000 calories. Add in the standard 200g pro and inherent 40g of fat that will be in your meat/carbs and you're looking at 3160 cals for the day. I dunno about you but that's beyond most people's tdee and that's at 6g per kg of an average man's lbm. I'm not saying that the diet doesn't work as instructed but simply saying that you should start slow.
    I agree ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++1

  11. #651
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    PDF facts CKD

    Top, PM'd you in regard to getting your PDF facts on the CKD...looking forward to your response

  12. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post
    I bought a bag of actual flax seeds , not the oil. why does the actual seeds have carbs and the oil doesnt? enough of the seeds and it will kick me outta ketosis right?

    anyone use the seeds?

    thanks Chris
    The seeds are 100% fibrous. 11g of carbs per serving are all via fiber. No better fiber supp than these, imo.

    As for the oil not having carbs; think about it. They are pressed for their oil and any actually starchy/fibrous matter does not come along with it.

  13. #653
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    Quote Originally Posted by oker View Post
    Top, PM'd you in regard to getting your PDF facts on the CKD...looking forward to your response
    bump

  14. #654
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    so i have a question then

    I have been on a keto diet now for 9 weeks..i have had a few cheat meals in those 9 weeks..maybe 4-5 sushi meals in total... havnt cheated for 3 weeks straight

    anyways i have felt like fat loss has paused or slowed in the past 2 days so late arvo/last night i carbo loaded..and then this morning i carbo loaded with bread making toast.. Should i continue carbo loading today then go straight back into keto tomorrow?

  15. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by tembe View Post
    so i have a question then

    I have been on a keto diet now for 9 weeks..i have had a few cheat meals in those 9 weeks..maybe 4-5 sushi meals in total... havnt cheated for 3 weeks straight

    anyways i have felt like fat loss has paused or slowed in the past 2 days so late arvo/last night i carbo loaded..and then this morning i carbo loaded with bread making toast.. Should i continue carbo loading today then go straight back into keto tomorrow?
    T - Post your diet and stats so we can get a better idea

  16. #656
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    PS, before I started this diet (keto) my weight loss stagnated much like yours, I discovered I was eating to many cal per day...I adjusted it to better suit my LBM and now I'm losing the weight again at great speed! Your diet may indeed be a part of your problem so by posting your stats, diet, etc, members can get a better idea of how to assist you

    Cheers

  17. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by oker View Post
    T - Post your diet and stats so we can get a better idea
    Diet Protein Carbs Fats Calories
    Meal 1 Protein shake (after cardio) 40 5 1.5 203
    Meal 2 2 Tuna Tasters and 5 grams fish oil 29 258
    Meal 3 Tuna, 5 Egg White Omelette 32.5 2.7 156.7
    Meal 4 Protein Shake (after gym) 40 5 1.5 203
    Meal 5 10 Egg White Omelette 36 160
    Meal 6 Protein shake and 5 grams of fish oil 36 5 2.7 227

    TOTALS PROTEIN 213.5 CARBS 15 FATS 8.4 CALORIES 1207.7

    Also do early morning cardio involving 30-45 min of swimming...

    Weight - 89kg
    Height - 5ft 10
    Strength (to get gauge of muscle) - Bench Press 120kg 8 R 3 Sets
    - Shoulder Press 45kg 7 R 3 Sets
    - Squats 120kg 8 R 3 Sets

    So theres just general strength to indicate my muscle mass.


    Aiming to get down to around 10% bf. Atm i am probs around 14-15%

  18. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by tembe View Post
    Diet Protein Carbs Fats Calories
    Meal 1 Protein shake (after cardio) 40 5 1.5 203
    Meal 2 2 Tuna Tasters and 5 grams fish oil 29 258
    Meal 3 Tuna, 5 Egg White Omelette 32.5 2.7 156.7
    Meal 4 Protein Shake (after gym) 40 5 1.5 203
    Meal 5 10 Egg White Omelette 36 160
    Meal 6 Protein shake and 5 grams of fish oil 36 5 2.7 227

    TOTALS PROTEIN 213.5 CARBS 15 FATS 8.4 CALORIES 1207.7

    Also do early morning cardio involving 30-45 min of swimming...

    Weight - 89kg
    Height - 5ft 10
    Strength (to get gauge of muscle) - Bench Press 120kg 8 R 3 Sets
    - Shoulder Press 45kg 7 R 3 Sets
    - Squats 120kg 8 R 3 Sets

    So theres just general strength to indicate my muscle mass.


    Aiming to get down to around 10% bf. Atm i am probs around 14-15%
    Thats some extremely low calories for a male trying to build muscle and loss BF. I would tell you to never go below 1700 and thats the rock bottom. My wifes calories are around that when she's in contest mode.

  19. #659
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    TOP - nice to see you're still around bro!

  20. #660
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    CKD diet...

    Hey TOP, now that you're back did you have a chance to read my PM? When you are ready bro - I imagine you will have a few to go through. Anyway, below is my CKD diet when you have time pls critique it...I'm 190 pounds and my LBM is about 160-170

    Cheers!

    Meal 1 - 8:00AM
    2 whole eggs
    2 slices of can bacon
    1 tbsp butter
    1 tbsp Mustard
    X 2 fish oil

    Meal 2 - 11:00PM
    30g peanuts
    25grams cheddar
    X 2 fish oil

    Meal 3 - 2:00PM
    120 grams grams chic
    1tbsp mayo, 1 Tbsp mustard
    1 tbsp Olive Oil, 1 cup lettuce Salad
    2 x fish oil

    Meal 4 - 5:00PM
    30g peanut
    25grams Cheddar cheese
    2 x fish oil

    Meal 5 - 8:00PM
    WHEY WORK OUT DAYS ONLY
    OR WHOLE FOOD NON WORK OUT DAYS
    Whey (Tue, Thurs, Sun)
    Or, 120 Grams Chicken and Cheese

    Meal 6 - 10:30
    1 scoop Casein

  21. #661
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    Quote Originally Posted by tembe View Post
    Diet Protein Carbs Fats Calories
    Meal 1 Protein shake (after cardio) 40 5 1.5 203
    Meal 2 2 Tuna Tasters and 5 grams fish oil 29 258
    Meal 3 Tuna, 5 Egg White Omelette 32.5 2.7 156.7
    Meal 4 Protein Shake (after gym) 40 5 1.5 203
    Meal 5 10 Egg White Omelette 36 160
    Meal 6 Protein shake and 5 grams of fish oil 36 5 2.7 227

    TOTALS PROTEIN 213.5 CARBS 15 FATS 8.4 CALORIES 1207.7

    Also do early morning cardio involving 30-45 min of swimming...

    Weight - 89kg
    Height - 5ft 10
    Strength (to get gauge of muscle) - Bench Press 120kg 8 R 3 Sets
    - Shoulder Press 45kg 7 R 3 Sets
    - Squats 120kg 8 R 3 Sets

    So theres just general strength to indicate my muscle mass.


    Aiming to get down to around 10% bf. Atm i am probs around 14-15%
    And why the protein so high and fats so low...isn't this the opposite of the theory behind Top's suggestions for CKD? Should be around 30% protein, 65% Fats and the rest carbs...take a look at my diet above T.

  22. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by oker View Post
    And why the protein so high and fats so low...isn't this the opposite of the theory behind Top's suggestions for CKD? Should be around 30% protein, 65% Fats and the rest carbs...take a look at my diet above T.
    I got his diet sorted out. It's now a keto diet, lol.

  23. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by oker View Post
    Hey TOP, now that you're back did you have a chance to read my PM? When you are ready bro - I imagine you will have a few to go through. Anyway, below is my CKD diet when you have time pls critique it...I'm 190 pounds and my LBM is about 160-170I'm not TOP but I can help for now. The boy hasn't been around much sadly.

    Cheers!

    Meal 1 - 8:00AM
    2 whole eggs
    2 slices of can bacon
    1 tbsp butter
    1 tbsp Mustard
    X 2 fish oil
    I know the advantage to this type of CKD taste-wise is the potential for eating so much saturated fat but come on dude, butter and bacon in the same meal? Butter adds no quality protein or anything really, just saturated fat, which you already had plenty of via the eggs/bacon. Really, this meal is sufficient without it and you already had the 60/40 fat/pro ratio with the 2 protein sources.

    Meal 2 - 11:00PM
    30g peanuts
    25grams cheddar
    X 2 fish oil Where's the real protein? 2 fat sources? Bad meal. I'd do the serving of peanuts with 6 oz. of lean protein, topped lightly with about 1/3 as much cheese.

    Meal 3 - 2:00PM
    120 grams grams chic
    1tbsp mayo, 1 Tbsp mustard
    1 tbsp Olive Oil, 1 cup lettuce Salad
    2 x fish oil It works.

    Meal 4 - 5:00PM
    30g peanut
    25grams Cheddar cheese
    2 x fish oil Same as meal 2 - replace all that cheese with lean protein and just use a little bit for taste.

    Meal 5 - 8:00PM
    WHEY WORK OUT DAYS ONLY
    OR WHOLE FOOD NON WORK OUT DAYS
    Whey (Tue, Thurs, Sun)
    Or, 120 Grams Chicken and Cheese On your workout days - you should have both of these options. A scoop of whey right as you finish lifting and then the chicken/cheese meal(preferably a healthy fat source instead) right after. Such a late workout time can gimp you if you only have 2 shakes before an 8-12 hour fast.

    Meal 6 - 10:30
    1 scoop Casein Take some of the fat I removed from your earlier meals and add it to this one to further slow digestion. Some omega-3 before bed is always a good idea. Maybe 1 tbsp. udo's oil or flax.
    - There's not enough green veggies. You can get away with a few servings of broccoli and such and still stay under 25g carbs.

    - It's nice to have the leeway to eat pork rinds and cheese and shit but come on, we're bodybuilders, not truckers. If you're on the go and have to resort to it, fine but a keto diet should still be about healthy fats whenever possible.

    - While this sort of diet is more about fat than protein, all meals should still center around a somewhat substantial portion of protein, using the fat elements for flavor/lubrication and to increase protein synthesis.

  24. #664
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    I have been following this diet for 3 weeks and am responding very well to it, thanks to help from you guys (mostly Damienm05 tyvm), my question is I workout with a PL coach and my workouts are on tues thurs and sat. either squat, deads, bench 5x5 all, or squat, military, bo rows 5x5 all.

    started 306lbs now 294lbs (alot of muscle returning)
    BP 165 over 95 now 143 over 89

    My question is since I am not working out 3 days in a row, what can I do to increase fat loss and should Sunday be my carb up day?

    thank you,

    Eric

  25. #665
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    hey everybody,

    Im still on this diet and wont stop till im satisfied with the look of my mid-section. The definition down the middle is finally starting to show but its taking longer than I expected.


    This past month Ive added things to help boost my performance.

    600mg primo a week 1 month ago
    80mg anavar a day , 1 week ago
    1 hour deep tissue massage a week , 1 month ago. Bumped it up to two times a week.
    4 pills of KRE-Alkalyn 1500 a day, just added it the other day. ( read that creatine with anavar is a good combo.)

    This month I expect to see better results. Ive beening gaining .5 lbs of weight a week the past 3 weeks. I totally recommend the massages. Help with recovery and move the blood around the body.

    This week im going to focus on cardio only , and take a rest from working out till the fullbody and hit it hard then.

  26. #666
    alexkorbutiak is offline New Member
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    Top,

    Can you please PM me a copy of that book, and also a sample of your diet?

    Thanks.

  27. #667
    johnfi is offline New Member
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    SO if follwing this diet witha standars 500 -300 caloric deficit a day you shoulden't loose much to hardly any muscle. what would happen if you follow the same exact diet while on a cutting cycle? has anyone tried this? would tis mean you may even put a little muscle on?

  28. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexkorbutiak View Post
    Top,

    Can you please PM me a copy of that book, and also a sample of your diet?

    Thanks.
    Good luck getting an answer - I've asked TOP to PM me a few times about the book and diet but to no avail!

  29. #669
    G.P. is offline Junior Member
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    This is a great thread. I've heard of it but that's as far as it went. I never really looked into it & just put it on the list of fad diets. After reading all this & some links I might give a try for a couple months just to see how I respond to it. It all makes sense once you get into the details of it.

  30. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by G.P. View Post
    This is a great thread. I've heard of it but that's as far as it went. I never really looked into it & just put it on the list of fad diets. After reading all this & some links I might give a try for a couple months just to see how I respond to it. It all makes sense once you get into the details of it.
    I did the diet for a few months and it worked very well, although, there was a point where the weight just stopped dropping off. In the beginning I was losing 1kg a week and eating bacon and eggs for breakfast - very much enjoyed that. However, bear in mind that you make no solid muscle gains on CKD diet but maintain muscle only. Now I've switched to the low carb (morn) and healthy fats (afternoon) diet, much like the diets you see posted in this diet section, and the fat started to drop off again. Long story short, CKD is a good starting point to reach your objective, but eventually you'll need to switch back to healthy carbs to make any real gains.

  31. #671
    johnfi is offline New Member
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    weight training the day after carb loading?

    Because of my shedual I start my carb load on saturday evening and all day sunday. So in other words sunday is my full day of carb loading.

    Now my question is can I weight train on monday? I ask this because I know the way the program is suppose to go if you where to carb load friday night thrgout saturday is that you take sunday off and just do cardio and in that scenario that workout perfect because you get to rest on sunday a perfect day for that IMO!! But since in my case my monday is my sunday , I wanted to know if it was ok to get my first weight training session of the week that day given the fact that monday am always full of energy and is practicaly my favorite day to go to the gym.

  32. #672
    johnfi is offline New Member
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    bump

    bump

  33. #673
    Sinned5332 is offline New Member
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    Hey all.. I just wanted to share my experiences on the 1 week I've done so far.

    I started out at about 250 lbs when I finally got fed up with how I look and feel. I started to watch what I eat more carefully and go to the gym more often. Then I found this site. When I started on Monday I think I weighed in at 232. Friday morning I was 228.

    I started last week, Monday, gym closed for holiday. Good start.. LOL
    I kept my carbs as close to 0 as possible. I know I ate some, but not more than 30 each day. I bought ketostix to see what was happening. I had heard about the metallic taste, but I had that on Monday... So I wasn't convinced. LOL

    Tuesday the stix were negative, I just kept eating meat, went to the gym and did my upper body workout and 45 minutes walking on the treadmill.

    Wednesday I was showing trace amounts on the stix, worked my legs and 30 minutes walking on the treadmill. Trace amounts on the stix.

    Thursday I didn't get to the gym because I'd been waiting for UPS to show up with a delivery, and they didn't get there until after 7, by then I was starving and by the time I ate it was too late. Stix were between trace and low.

    Friday total body workout and 30 minutes on on the treadmill. When I peed on the stix they were MAROON showing a high result. I got back on the carbs and today the stix show negative. LOL

    I'm going to keep going and see what happens.

  34. #674
    amostofi1999 is offline Associate Member
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    guys, should i use creatine on no carb days? should i use other type than mono? not sure if it works or not without carbs.

  35. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinned5332 View Post
    Hey all.. I just wanted to share my experiences on the 1 week I've done so far.

    I started out at about 250 lbs when I finally got fed up with how I look and feel. I started to watch what I eat more carefully and go to the gym more often. Then I found this site. When I started on Monday I think I weighed in at 232. Friday morning I was 228.

    I started last week, Monday, gym closed for holiday. Good start.. LOL
    I kept my carbs as close to 0 as possible. I know I ate some, but not more than 30 each day. I bought ketostix to see what was happening. I had heard about the metallic taste, but I had that on Monday... So I wasn't convinced. LOL

    Tuesday the stix were negative, I just kept eating meat, went to the gym and did my upper body workout and 45 minutes walking on the treadmill.

    Wednesday I was showing trace amounts on the stix, worked my legs and 30 minutes walking on the treadmill. Trace amounts on the stix.

    Thursday I didn't get to the gym because I'd been waiting for UPS to show up with a delivery, and they didn't get there until after 7, by then I was starving and by the time I ate it was too late. Stix were between trace and low.

    Friday total body workout and 30 minutes on on the treadmill. When I peed on the stix they were MAROON showing a high result. I got back on the carbs and today the stix show negative. LOL

    I'm going to keep going and see what happens.
    Your workout routine is awful and you need fats when working with a CKD.

  36. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by amostofi1999 View Post
    guys, should i use creatine on no carb days? should i use other type than mono? not sure if it works or not without carbs.
    You can use creatine on no carb days but I feel its better on the carb load days at the weekend because creatine needs and works better when its got a delivery agent so it can be easily transported via your carbs

  37. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfi View Post
    Because of my shedual I start my carb load on saturday evening and all day sunday. So in other words sunday is my full day of carb loading.

    Now my question is can I weight train on monday? I ask this because I know the way the program is suppose to go if you where to carb load friday night thrgout saturday is that you take sunday off and just do cardio and in that scenario that workout perfect because you get to rest on sunday a perfect day for that IMO!! But since in my case my monday is my sunday , I wanted to know if it was ok to get my first weight training session of the week that day given the fact that monday am always full of energy and is practicaly my favorite day to go to the gym.
    anyone?

  38. #678
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    I thought that the purpose of the refeed is to allow you to work harder in the coming week. Why wouldn't you? The 2 days after my cheat day are the best days for me to work out.

  39. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure View Post
    I thought that the purpose of the refeed is to allow you to work harder in the coming week. Why wouldn't you? The 2 days after my cheat day are the best days for me to work out.
    yes and it totaly makes sensebut for some reason most people just do cardio the day right after carb loading. wich for most is sunday

  40. #680
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    friends ,

    I stopped the CKD diet 2 weeks ago , switched to a 40/40/20 of just , egg whites, chicken, avacado, flax seed oil and oatmeal for carbs ( yep with no cheating ). I feel great. My abbs are really showing nicely.

    On sunday i started the UD 2.0 diet. I like this diet better than the carb keto because i dont eat soo much fatty foods. Im eating 300g of protein and 20g of fat from avacado and flax seed oil. 1200 calories for 4 days before the carb up.

    I want to carb up with just oatmeal. Im going to test this first week out with carbing only oatmeal. We will see how it goes. Im not near 6 percent.maybe about 11-12% Its taking longer than i expected.

    I didnt REALISE I was this fat , lol


    UD is different and im gonna stick with it for 6-8weeks and then bridge again with 40/40/20 to get my body and mind a break. Then ill continue if i didnt hit 6% or mirror satisfactory.


    Chris

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