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Thread: The Cyclic Ketogenic Diet.....

  1. #161
    baddgsx is offline Junior Member
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    It's my first carb keto diet. I want to understand what my body is doing everyday by looking in the mirror and pissing on the stix. Once I run out of stix I'll have a general idea of what's going on and I'll be able to tweak better my food intake. So far so good but when u really dial everything in is where he magics at!

  2. #162
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    Top do you think getting fats from red meat is ok. I find they give me the cals I want and are loaded with fats. I eat 2 6oz steaks and 1 4oz burger a day which get me about 69g of my 128g of fat? My others come from fish oil,flax, avocados, eggs, pork rinds, almonds etc.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgarr View Post
    Top do you think getting fats from red meat is ok. I find they give me the cals I want and are loaded with fats. I eat 2 6oz steaks and 1 4oz burger a day which get me about 69g of my 128g of fat? My others come from fish oil,flax, avocados, eggs, pork rinds, almonds etc.
    Yep, i love red meat!!

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgarr View Post
    Good job. I have lowered the cals by about 300 and up fats by 13 grams, carbs about the same. I'll see how this goes for the next few weeks (i.e, feel, lose, look) and report back.

    As I said my carb load days weren't the cleanest but not too bad, worse thing was the drinking but I only drink vodka and water.
    cool bro same here I actaully didn't drink but my carb load wasn't the cleanest either, I actually ate pizza and wings. I heard that was bad. I hope I didn't **** anything. Up on my diet. I will tell u something tho I feel stressed out because Im so used to eatting how anything I want. It's so bad I freaking dream with food.lol but I keep telling my self to get over it. This gotta be the hardest diet I have ever tried.
    Anyone have any suggestions?

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    ......................
    Last edited by **TOP**; 01-27-2010 at 08:28 PM. Reason: I can

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR G lady View Post
    cool bro same here I actaully didn't drink but my carb load wasn't the cleanest either, I actually ate pizza and wings. I heard that was bad. I hope I didn't **** anything. Up on my diet. I will tell u something tho I feel stressed out because Im so used to eatting how anything I want. It's so bad I freaking dream with food.lol but I keep telling my self to get over it. This gotta be the hardest diet I have ever tried.
    Anyone have any suggestions?
    You should try dieting for a bodybuilding show! If you think this is hard you have no idea how hard contest prep can be! Stay strong!

  7. #167
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    Right now I'm running a 40/40/20 type diet and despite the fact that CKD fits my goals in no way at the moment; I'm following this thread to live vicariously through you lucky f*cks. Eating whole eggs and cheese for breakfast, pork loin and asparagus for lunch, and bacon-wrapped scallops for dinner - how is it hard?! Add on top of that the joy of eating lucky charms and baguette one day a week and you have yourself a very easy diet to follow.

    Keep cheating and complaining while I drink egg whites and eat canned tuna!

    I do have a question though TOP. Is eating a lot of sugary breakfast cerial, bagels, french toast, etc... the very high GI carbs... equivalent to eating 10x more complex carbs? And is it possible to over-do the carb up eating these foods at 80-100g per serving and spilling over into new fat?

  8. #168
    baddgsx is offline Junior Member
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    Edgarr , you drink alcohol? I'm suprised that anyone on here would drink alcohol because of the bad effects it has on bodybuilding. Even one drink can slow down protein synthesis. I having touched that in a lonnnnng time.


    Chris

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damienm05 View Post

    I do have a question though TOP. Is eating a lot of sugary breakfast cerial, bagels, french toast, etc... the very high GI carbs... equivalent to eating 10x more complex carbs? And is it possible to over-do the carb up eating these foods at 80-100g per serving and spilling over into new fat?
    Well its not always simple carbs,in the beginning i use simple then move on to more complex. Just like alot of others use dextrose after every PWO i only use it once a week. Also simple carbohydrates help out with the starvation hormone leptin. There are reasons to use simple carbs,although i dont suggest eating blindly with them! And yes you can spill over to fat very easily if not kept in check. Its been shown that 14-16grams of carbs for every lb in KGs(in lean body mass) should be used for the carb up,anything over that and you have a greater risk in depositing the foods into fat stores.You asked if eating 80-100g per serving would spill over to fat,my first 8 meals are all over 100 grams a meal,im still losing bodyfat! Hope this helps DAMIEN....TOP

  10. #170
    baddgsx is offline Junior Member
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    im on the end of the second week and the ckd is getting easier on the mind. Using fat as energy instead of carbs definitely gave me nausea at times. To help with that i would take a small bowl hit

    Love looking in the mirror everyday. my abbs are definetely coming in more defined. I cant wait till i get rid of the fat inbetween them , but i dont think thatlll happen for awhile. I bet that will be the last place the body goes for , for fuel. The lower section seems to be tightening up nice.


    Chris

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by JR G lady View Post
    cool bro same here I actaully didn't drink but my carb load wasn't the cleanest either, I actually ate pizza and wings. I heard that was bad. I hope I didn't **** anything. Up on my diet. I will tell u something tho I feel stressed out because Im so used to eatting how anything I want. It's so bad I freaking dream with food.lol but I keep telling my self to get over it. This gotta be the hardest diet I have ever tried.
    Anyone have any suggestions?
    I find it easy, I love the foods I am eating and the carb up days are great and only 6 days away!

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post
    Edgarr , you drink alcohol? I'm suprised that anyone on here would drink alcohol because of the bad effects it has on bodybuilding. Even one drink can slow down protein synthesis. I having touched that in a lonnnnng time.


    Chris
    YES. I am not a body builder or model. I workout to stay fit and look good but I also like to have fun. I work hard and play hard. I take a lot of vacations, I am into extreme sports, like snowboarding, mobiling, wakeboarding, sky diving, etc. and work a stressful job. So a lot of times the drinks take the edge off. I'm not saying you can't have fun without it but I have no desire to quick!

    With that said, currently I am working on no booze during the week.

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post
    im on the end of the second week and the ckd is getting easier on the mind. Using fat as energy instead of carbs definitely gave me nausea at times. To help with that i would take a small bowl hit

    Love looking in the mirror everyday. my abbs are definetely coming in more defined. I cant wait till i get rid of the fat inbetween them , but i dont think thatlll happen for awhile. I bet that will be the last place the body goes for , for fuel. The lower section seems to be tightening up nice.


    Chris
    My 2nd week I have had less symptoms, heck even my deuces have been solid

  14. #174
    baddgsx is offline Junior Member
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    Im no bodybuilder or model either bro. i look at it this way. If your gonna spend the money on supplements , food , AAS and other stuff to make yourself bigger , and cut..... why not do it to its fullest with cutting out the alcohol.


    I guess every body is different. Back when i was 20 i could drink like a horse , now at 30 , 1 drink and im drunk.... I hate the felling one drink put on me physical. My whole body aches , i have a headache for like 2 days. And my muscles shink. I feel like all my hardwork took a huge step back.


    You on the other hand probably dont feel the above feelings like i do.


    Chris

  15. #175
    edgarr is offline Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post
    Im no bodybuilder or model either bro. i look at it this way. If your gonna spend the money I make a lot of it so no worries! on supplements , food , AAS and other stuff to make yourself bigger , and cut..... why not do it to its fullest with cutting out the alcohol.


    I guess every body is different. Back when i was 20 i could drink like a horse , now at 30 I'm 39, 1 drink and im drunk.... I hate the felling one drink put on me physical. My whole body aches , i have a headache for like 2 days. And my muscles shink. I feel like all my hardwork took a huge step back.


    You on the other hand probably dont feel the above feelings like i do.


    Chris
    I'm not promoting it just saying I like to drink!

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by **TOP** View Post
    Well its not always simple carbs,in the beginning i use simple then move on to more complex. Just like alot of others use dextrose after every PWO i only use it once a week. Also simple carbohydrates help out with the starvation hormone leptin. There are reasons to use simple carbs,although i dont suggest eating blindly with them! And yes you can spill over to fat very easily if not kept in check. Its been shown that 14-16grams of carbs for every lb in KGs(in lean body mass) should be used for the carb up,anything over that and you have a greater risk in depositing the foods into fat stores.You asked if eating 80-100g per serving would spill over to fat,my first 8 meals are all over 100 grams a meal,im still losing bodyfat! Hope this helps DAMIEN....TOP
    Yes it does. Can't wait to give this thing a go in April. Just to clarify however, that equation after converting my LBM into KG and then multiplying by 14 yields a carb load of 1100g or so. I dunno about you, but I'd need to ************* before I could fit that many carbs into my stomach over a 12-hour period. Hey, any excuse is a good one.
    Last edited by Damienm05; 01-28-2010 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baddgsx View Post
    To help with that i would take a small bowl hit
    I envy you man. Bodybuilding forced me to quit smoking because I was simply unable to keep my calories under control. Even once I developed a system for healthy munchies, I would still eat like 2000 cals over my TDEE every day I got blazed, haha. I don't drink either so I've pretty much become a nymphomaniac as behind food, drugs, and alcohol that's the only vice left.

  18. #178
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    lolol alot of herb..... muches yeah..!!! hahahaha. Top if i cut my carbs down to like say 150 grams a day and kept my protien at 300 and uped my fat with udos to deficite the calories loss in carbs could this eventually do the same thing as keto ???

    and ur amazing m8 answering all these qs lolol thumbs up for u m8!

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by binsser View Post
    lolol alot of herb..... muches yeah..!!! hahahaha. Top if i cut my carbs down to like say 150 grams a day and kept my protien at 300 and uped my fat with udos to deficite the calories loss in carbs could this eventually do the same thing as keto ???

    and ur amazing m8 answering all these qs lolol thumbs up for u m8!
    I'm not Top but no, it would not. The state of ketosis is not brought on by a high fat intake and lower than average carb intake - it is your body's response to having no carbs to use as an energy source. Thus, stored fat is attacked at a rate which is impossible to match on another diet. At least one that doesn't involve starvation. A low carb diet with high EFA intake is a great way to cut up and you won't lose muscle mass but it's no where near as effective. Dare I say, without the carb-up, keto dieting can yield like 20 lbs. of fat loss in the first month while still taking in enough cals to stay satiated. Granted, you'd be disappointed with your sagging muscles or lack thereof.
    Last edited by Damienm05; 01-28-2010 at 01:24 PM.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by binsser View Post
    lolol alot of herb..... muches yeah..!!! hahahaha. Top if i cut my carbs down to like say 150 grams a day and kept my protien at 300 and uped my fat with udos to deficite the calories loss in carbs could this eventually do the same thing as keto ???

    and ur amazing m8 answering all these qs lolol thumbs up for u m8!
    like Damien said--no--but its a good way to carb cycle though--the 150 would b a moderate day--70-80 a low day and 300-350 a high day---and just adjust fats up and down to stay at ur calories---this has worked for alot of guys too

  21. #181
    baddgsx is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damienm05 View Post
    I envy you man. Bodybuilding forced me to quit smoking because I was simply unable to keep my calories under control. Even once I developed a system for healthy munchies, I would still eat like 2000 cals over my TDEE every day I got blazed, haha. I don't drink either so I've pretty much become a nymphomaniac as behind food, drugs, and alcohol that's the only vice left.

    I used to get the munchies too. But i didnt mind cause i was bulking up eating everything i could. Now on the keto diet if i get that way i train myself to drink water instead. So far its been working. Give it a shot.

  22. #182
    edgarr is offline Member
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    I still need to dial in this carb loading. I guess it will be trial and error for a few weeks but my first one was done over sat and sunday and I think I took in too many cals. I know that the scale isnt the best tool to use but I didn't lose anything this week after losing 5lbs last week. I also didn't feel the same. The mirror looks fine and I have a pair of jeans on that use to be tight and fit good now. Is 2 days too much, thats like 12 meals with carbs. Should I only go 1 day and then start CKD next day even though I dont lift on that day?
    Last edited by edgarr; 01-29-2010 at 12:27 PM.

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    Top would be the best to judge your situation but I'd say 2 days is probably too much at first. Start with one 12-hour period and gauge workout intensity over the next 3 days; if something is lacking or you feel depleted in general; step it up.

    That said, it sounds like you're over-thinking things man. The scale is not only a poor tool to gauge progress with following a carb up; it's completely destructive. Go by the way clothes fit and by the mirror. Also, if you took in a ton of sugar, especially fructose, it will take a lot longer to re-establish ketosis, contributing to not feeling quite the same. Just my $.02

  24. #184
    edgarr is offline Member
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    I used a Keto stick today, I know that I shouldn't be over concerned with that but just wondering what it means. The color matched the negative color???

  25. #185
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    It means you aren't in Ketosis. The color doesn't matter, either you're in or you're out. Watch your hidden carbs.

  26. #186
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    Hey guys sorry ive been MIA, my wife had surgery today and ive been with her every moment.

    1st the 150 grams of carbs a day would not be anything remotely like keto,just like damien and MG said!

    Alsosome people wont respond to a 2 day carb up especially if you choose the wrong foods. Its best to stick with 1 full day at the moment until you are ready to push your limits. I do 2 and my results are great,i also train with extreme intensity and im very VERY anal about my dieting!

    Once this diet has been done for a while ,2-3 months, the body will be used to it and it will be harder for it to transition back into the glucose burning mode just like it was when you started shifting to fats.

    The longer you are on this you will come to realize that when you started you felt like utter "shit" when you had 0 carbs. Aha but now when you eat carbs on the weeken d you feel like shit,sluggish tired nauseated. Your body isnt used to them anymore and its not quite sure how to respond to such rapid quantities.

    Also in my opinion bagels should be a staple of a carb load!(Just my opinion of course!)...TOP

  27. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damienm05 View Post
    Right now I'm running a 40/40/20 type diet and despite the fact that CKD fits my goals in no way at the moment; I'm following this thread to live vicariously through you lucky f*cks.
    How is this 40/40/20 going for you? How long have you been running it, and what have your results been so far?

    I just started running it as well and am about to close out week 4; i've noticed a bit more abs, and a few pounds lighter, but nothing to write home about. I'm hoping month 2 will bring about greater results. Are you doing a carb refeed on this diet?

    On another note - just curious, do you have any pics up'd?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damienm05 View Post
    I envy you man. Bodybuilding forced me to quit smoking because I was simply unable to keep my calories under control. Even once I developed a system for healthy munchies, I would still eat like 2000 cals over my TDEE every day I got blazed, haha. I don't drink either so I've pretty much become a nymphomaniac as behind food, drugs, and alcohol that's the only vice left.
    I'll be honest, I blaze every single night, it sounds corny but I can't live without it, i'm too stressed from work and too high strung to begin with. I quit my other bad habits; namely food, and cigarettes, but this one has to stay!

    Yes, it's hard as hell to maintain a diet this strict while blazed, but that's the discipline i'm trying to prove I have now...

  29. #189
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    Nice post TOP.

  30. #190
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    hey g brice, just looked back at my pics from my 3 mo cut--the magic happens between mo 2 and 3---i took 5 pics every week thru the whole cut---stick to it--i know u will

  31. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbrice75 View Post
    How is this 40/40/20 going for you? How long have you been running it, and what have your results been so far?

    I just started running it as well and am about to close out week 4; i've noticed a bit more abs, and a few pounds lighter, but nothing to write home about. I'm hoping month 2 will bring about greater results. Are you doing a carb refeed on this diet?

    On another note - just curious, do you have any pics up'd?
    I've been running it for about 8 weeks now, all of which have been on 500mg of test. Needless to say, it's hard to gauge because I've gained like 15 lbs. of lean mass and am retaining another 5-10 in water it would seem. In terms of what I can say definitively, energy levels are great as well as how I feel in general.

    I ran this diet when I was initially put onto this forum several months ago and followed it strictly for about 3 months. At this time, I was about 15% bf and had not begun planning my cycle yet. Over the course of that 3 month period, I got to about 12% which I thought was quite good since my weights were steadily increasing in the gym and I was eating just below my TDEE. Live and learn to be patient I guess, haha. Unlike keto, I felt thin but not depleted. Soon after, in order to get to single digit bf% before my cycle, i regrettably tried a very low carb keto-type diet with no refeed and I got to 9% in a month but I lost as much as 10% strength.

    Understand that unless you set your cals 1000 below your TDEE or do hours of daily cardio with a 40/40/20 diet, you won't see rapid weight loss. 1.5 lbs. a week is great, assuming it's all fat. Stick with it for another 8 weeks and you'll see that it's working well. In short, if you've seen a difference on the scale and in the mirror, albeit slight, after 4 weeks; you're doing well.

    I did not do a refeed when I first ran this diet months ago. It was not necessary at that time and IMO, is not for you yet either. I do a refeed now, however it is minor. On my sat/sun I don't lift and I up my carbs from 150 to 300. Sources remain complex and carb consumption is cut off before dinner. My monday workout is great but it doesn't match the super-compensation seen with CKD for obvious reasons.

    No pics up right now; planning on posting before and after pics after PCT.

  32. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by mg1228 View Post
    hey g brice, just looked back at my pics from my 3 mo cut--the magic happens between mo 2 and 3---i took 5 pics every week thru the whole cut---stick to it--i know u will
    Thanks for the continued support bro, i'm not giving up yet! =)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damienm05 View Post
    I've been running it for about 8 weeks now, all of which have been on 500mg of test. Needless to say, it's hard to gauge because I've gained like 15 lbs. of lean mass and am retaining another 5-10 in water it would seem. In terms of what I can say definitively, energy levels are great as well as how I feel in general.

    Makes sense. I would love to get my hands on some Test... currently in the market for Anavar though, going to try and start small to see how my body reacts to AAS.

    I ran this diet when I was initially put onto this forum several months ago and followed it strictly for about 3 months. At this time, I was about 15% bf and had not begun planning my cycle yet. Over the course of that 3 month period, I got to about 12% which I thought was quite good since my weights were steadily increasing in the gym and I was eating just below my TDEE. Live and learn to be patient I guess, haha. Unlike keto, I felt thin but not depleted. Soon after, in order to get to single digit bf% before my cycle, i regrettably tried a very low carb keto-type diet with no refeed and I got to 9% in a month but I lost as much as 10% strength.

    Understand that unless you set your cals 1000 below your TDEE or do hours of daily cardio with a 40/40/20 diet, you won't see rapid weight loss. 1.5 lbs. a week is great, assuming it's all fat. Stick with it for another 8 weeks and you'll see that it's working well. In short, if you've seen a difference on the scale and in the mirror, albeit slight, after 4 weeks; you're doing well.

    Funny you mention it - my weight loss this week is exactly 1.5lbs.... i'd only be assuming it's all fat, but have no way to know for sure. I can definitely see my abs better; I have the 4 upper 'cubes' coming in nicely. The lower half of my abdomen doesn't even exist! In the 4 weeks, i'm down over 5lbs so I guess that's good progress. I haven't lost strength in the gym so far... so hopefully it's all fat that's burning off.

    I did not do a refeed when I first ran this diet months ago. It was not necessary at that time and IMO, is not for you yet either. I do a refeed now, however it is minor. On my sat/sun I don't lift and I up my carbs from 150 to 300. Sources remain complex and carb consumption is cut off before dinner. My monday workout is great but it doesn't match the super-compensation seen with CKD for obvious reasons.

    You ate right below your TDEE and on an 40/40/20 a refeed may not be necessary. I'm eating around 500-600 below, and I think the refeed becomes more necessary when overall calories are that low (and therefore carbs are automatically low) - Fireguy said he wouldn't normally suggest a refeed on this diet either, but said it's necessary at my defecit. Plus, it makes me feel great the next day in the gym, actually went up in my bench!

    No pics up right now; planning on posting before and after pics after PCT.
    Looking forward to seeing your progress bro, good luck!

  34. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by **TOP** View Post

    The longer you are on this you will come to realize that when you started you felt like utter "shit" when you had 0 carbs. Aha but now when you eat carbs on the weeken d you feel like shit,sluggish tired nauseated. Your body isnt used to them anymore and its not quite sure how to respond to such rapid quantities.

    I can definitely attest to this. I ate 4 cookies this morning and not 10 mins after I felt like I had to take a nap. I can't concentrate very well and almost feel weak. I felt like this before dieting but to a lesser degree. It feels like crap IMO and makes me appreciate not eating bad. I look forward to cheat day but when I cheat I look forward to tomorrow when I go back on the diet.

    On a side note, watch the servings of almonds. Everytime I would get up and grab a handful of them I thought I was eating 1 serving. I weighed it out and one handful is like 3-4 servings. I did that a few times a day. Stopped eating almonds and just replaced them with more meat/cheese.
    Last edited by Failure; 01-30-2010 at 05:07 PM.

  35. #195
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    I have the wife starting this diet today. Anyone have a good workout split I can give her?

    Also, does anyone notice an odd body odor? I almost smell like fish oil all the time but gets worse when sweating??

  36. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgarr View Post
    ...Also, does anyone notice an odd body odor? I almost smell like fish oil all the time but gets worse when sweating??
    I havent heard of worse BO, but I think one of the side effects of Ketosis is bad breath.

  37. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgarr View Post
    Just so I understand, you are only taking the creatine on your load days or you take it everyday but increase it on the carb load days??
    Quote Originally Posted by **TOP** View Post
    ^I take it only on my carb load days around 3-5 grams with each 2 hour meal...TOP
    TOP, is taking Creatine every day on this diet a waste?

  38. #198
    edgarr is offline Member
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    Mar 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielli View Post
    TOP, is taking Creatine every day on this diet a waste?
    There was an earlier post that stated that he only took it on is re-load days.

  39. #199
    danielli is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgarr View Post
    There was an earlier post that stated that he only took it on is re-load days.
    I know, I quoted it in my question. I'm curious why he only takes on carb-load days.

    Wondering if you get enough cretine naturally by eating som much meat/fish thats consumed during the keto days

  40. #200
    jjaayy is offline New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    I seen this at http://www.keto.org/foods.htm and wondering if this is true for the keto diet

    Safe Foods (No Carbs/Trace Carbs)

    Beef, Steak, Hamburger, Prime Rib, Filet Mignon, Roast Beef, Chicken*, Duck, Any Fish*, Tuna*, Salmon*, Trout*, Halibut*, Lamb, Pork, Bacon, Ham, Eggs, Shrimp, Crab, Lobster, Butter, Oils (Olive Oil*, Flaxseed oil*, etc.), Mustard, Salt, Pepper, Soy Sauce, Tea, Coffee, Heavy Cream and Nutrasweet/Equal.

    Minimal Carb Foods (Limited Quantities Only, Check Carb Content!)

    Broccoli*, Spinach*, Lettuce*, Cabbage*, Bok Choy*, Kale*, Asparagus*, Mustard Greens*, Mushrooms*, Cucumbers*, Pickles*, Olives*, Celery*, Green Beans*, Brussel Sprouts*, Cauliflower*, Artichokes*, Peppers* (Red, Green, Jalapeno, Habanero), Onions*, Nuts, Flaxseeds*, Cheeses, Salami, Pastrami, Hot Dogs, Sausages, Ribs (watch out for the sauce!), Buffalo Wings, Liverwurst, Oysters, Abalone, Protein Powders, Sugar Free Jello, Salad Dressings (some), some Wines.

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