The Cyclic Ketogenic Diet.....

**baddgsx** · 02-15-2010, 11:14 AM

I keep my weight tracked by this pretty cool app for the iphone called iFitness. It was a couple bucks. Heres my graph of the weight change since i started dieting. Notice the change at 1/24/10. I started the CKD there and the plot looks different. You can see the spike on the carb up weekend.

Chris

**TOP** · 02-15-2010, 03:36 PM

^And how is your strength,still strong?

**theraptor** · 02-15-2010, 06:08 PM

i got a question on carbs if im eating fiberous veggies do i subtract the fibre from my net carbs?

**baddgsx** · 02-15-2010, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by **TOP**

^And how is your strength,still strong?

i just started my PCT's today. I was stronger a month ago, but thats cause of the aas. I dont let that stop me from pushing hard.

**edgarr** · 02-15-2010, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by baddgsx

i just started my PCT's today. I was stronger a month ago, but thats cause of the aas. I dont let that stop me from pushing hard.

what was your cycle and were you on CKD the whole cycle?

**Damienm05** · 02-15-2010, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by theraptor

i got a question on carbs if im eating fiberous veggies do i subtract the fibre from my net carbs?

Yes.

**baddgsx** · 02-16-2010, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by edgarr

what was your cycle and were you on CKD the whole cycle?

I did a cycle of deca and test ethanate. 600 of each , deca for 3 months , test for 3.5 months. No ckd , i didnt watch diet , just ate everything i could. Next time im going to go a cleaner route diet wise. It will make cutting alot easier i believe.

Chris

**baddgsx** · 02-16-2010, 08:12 AM

Top , from looking at that graph, do you think that I loosing weight at a good speed? I'm noticing that the bodyfat around the side of the abs And love handles are disapearing first.

Chris

**TOP** · 02-16-2010, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by baddgsx

Top , from looking at that graph, do you think that I loosing weight at a good speed? I'm noticing that the bodyfat around the side of the abs And love handles are disapearing first.

Chris

Im pleased wth it.You cant ask for anymore,looks good to me!! Keep it goin!!

**baddgsx** · 02-16-2010, 10:10 AM

Nice , then ill keep at it and see how it goes. This friday ill post an updated pic to see what you guys think.

Chris

**TOP** · 02-16-2010, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by baddgsx

Nice , then ill keep at it and see how it goes. This friday ill post an updated pic to see what you guys think.

Chris

You have any pics of a before diet?If so post that also

**baddgsx** · 02-16-2010, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by **TOP**

You have any pics of a before diet?If so post that also

I have only the ones from this thread http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...99#post5035999

now looking back at these , wow. 3 weeks of ckd shows a difference , not what im aiming at , but its working.

Chris

**americanoak** · 02-16-2010, 08:53 PM

hey baddgsx you should post some pics of ur progress

**baddgsx** · 02-17-2010, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by americanoak

hey baddgsx you should post some pics of ur progress

Friday , I'll post an updated pic

**baddgsx** · 02-17-2010, 06:27 AM

Someone posted earlier about how their feces is more solid. I dont poop as often as i did before this diet but im getting the same results, solid poops.

I felt like i was giving birth this morning!! Is there anything that i should be doing to fix this , or is it just normal. Maybe i need some more fiberous vegetables?

Thanks,
Chris

**americanoak** · 02-17-2010, 10:27 AM

lol ummmm stool softners? not sure

**edgarr** · 02-17-2010, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Damienm05

Yes.

So are you saying that if 1 cup of cooked asparagus is 7.5g carbs but fiber is 3.6g I would only count 3.9g of carbs for that meal???

**americanoak** · 02-17-2010, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by edgarr

So are you saying that if 1 cup of cooked asparagus is 7.5g carbs but fiber is 3.6g I would only count 3.9g of carbs for that meal???

you count all the crabs.. 7.5g

Im pretty sure.
Fiber is a source of carb.

**TOP** · 02-17-2010, 02:36 PM

I count all carbs,no exceptions

**edgarr** · 02-20-2010, 09:46 AM

week 4 gone. looking better and stronger but still at the same weight after week 1. I have only lost 5 lbs. Is this normal?

**mg1228** · 02-20-2010, 11:10 AM

hey Top, wife is 6.5 weeks into diet--starting stats 5'9 158.7lb bf% prob 30

today 138.2lb bf% prob 21 (got electronic calipers) not real accurate but constistent

been doin am cardio for 45 min 3-5 times a week--no weights

instead of 2 refeed days--shes been doin two carb/cheat meals on sat every week

just thought id give u an update

**baddgsx** · 02-20-2010, 12:01 PM

I bought some KRE-alkalyn 1500 , some new creatine on the market the guy at the supplement store said is supposed to be really good. 1g of this is supposibly egual to 10grams of powder form and doesnt turn into creatinine. I want to take creatine on my carb load day and the powder version tastes too awful for me. So i figured pill form is the only way ill down some. Taking it only on the weekends should last a while for me.

Chris

**HeavyL** · 02-20-2010, 12:20 PM

this diet has been working well for me lately, i had an issue with going to excessive on carb load days. but i think i have that figured out

**TOP** · 02-20-2010, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by mg1228

hey Top, wife is 6.5 weeks into diet--starting stats 5'9 158.7lb bf% prob 30

today 138.2lb bf% prob 21 (got electronic calipers) not real accurate but constistent

been doin am cardio for 45 min 3-5 times a week--no weights

instead of 2 refeed days--shes been doin two carb/cheat meals on sat every week

just thought id give u an update

Makes me happy for her to read things like this!! Good job to the both of you!!

**edgarr** · 02-20-2010, 03:04 PM

I can't believe the weight drops. I am going to have to mix things up. I just can't believe I am losing BF without losing weight.

Let me ask this, my first meal which is 2 eggs and 1 tablespoon of udo's then I have a 2 hour commute which I was lifting then taking in 40 grams protein. Would I be better off doing my cardio (45-50 mins LIT) then (figure 2 hours is enough to get to an empty stomach) and then taking 1 tablespoon Udo's right after? Then I would eat meals 3 and 4 and then workout.

My diet is dialed in at 60-35-5, should I raise it to 65-30-5?

Again I think I look better, but my body isn't changing quick enough. Don't get me wrong I would love to be 180lbs which is where I'm at now but at 10-12% vs 16-18%

Let me know if you need more info, thanks

**xtinaunasty** · 02-20-2010, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by edgarr

I can't believe the weight drops. I am going to have to mix things up. I just can't believe I am losing BF without losing weight.

Let me ask this, my first meal which is 2 eggs and 1 tablespoon of udo's then I have a 2 hour commute which I was lifting then taking in 40 grams protein. Would I be better off doing my cardio (45-50 mins LIT) then (figure 2 hours is enough to get to an empty stomach) and then taking 1 tablespoon Udo's right after? Then I would eat meals 3 and 4 and then workout.

My diet is dialed in at 60-35-5, should I raise it to 65-30-5?

Again I think I look better, but my body isn't changing quick enough. Don't get me wrong I would love to be 180lbs which is where I'm at now but at 10-12% vs 16-18%

Let me know if you need more info, thanks

dont over think it! if you are losing fat keep doing what you're doing

**americanoak** · 02-21-2010, 10:25 AM

in the book bodypus the ratios looked as you put it edgarr:

65/~35/2-5

but if you are losing body fat then you must be doing something right. I wouldnt worry too much if its working out for you. Just have paitence, everyone wants their bf to drop over night, unfortunetly it doesnt work like that

**edgarr** · 02-21-2010, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by xtinaunasty

dont over think it! if you are losing fat keep doing what you're doing

Originally Posted by americanoak

in the book bodypus the ratios looked as you put it edgarr:

65/~35/2-5

but if you are losing body fat then you must be doing something right. I wouldnt worry too much if its working out for you. Just have paitence, everyone wants their bf to drop over night, unfortunetly it doesnt work like that

Thanks! That keeps me motivated!

**americanoak** · 02-21-2010, 12:41 PM

no problem. Keep up the hard work

**gbrice75** · 02-22-2010, 11:05 AM

I am seroiusly considering doing this CKD diet now... if I choose to do so, I will start next Monday. I am almost 2 months into this 40/40/20 routine, and don't feel it's working very well for me. I have managed to lose roughly 6-8lbs, but I don't look much different, strength has gone down in the gym considerably and so I have to question how much of that loss was fat and how much was muscle. I have read over and over again that some people are very carb-sensitive; I am beginning to think I am one of those unlucky people.

Naturally I have some questions about my specific situation and incorporating this diet. If some of these questions have already been asked/addressed, I apologize in advance; I did read through about 4 pages before my head started smoking! Top, you have been wonderful in responding to all of these, I can't thank you enough!

Here is my current weight routine - obvioulsy i'd have to modify for the CKD diet:

Monday - Chest and Tri's, followed by 30 mins cardio
Tuesday - Back and Bi's, followed by 30 mins cardio
Wednesday - 30-45 mins of cardio
Thursday - Legs, followed by 30 mins cardio
Friday - Shoulders, followed by 30 mins cardio
Sat and Sun - OFF
I am on a 40/40/20 diet and taking a 1/2 refeed day on Sunday's.

Here are the changes I assume i'd have to make:

Monday - Chest and Tri's, followed by 30 mins cardio
Tuesday - Back and Bi's, followed by 30 mins cardio
Wednesday - Legs, followed by 30 mins cardio
Thursday - 30-45 mins cardio
Friday - Full Body Workout (this is when i'd hit shoulders as usual), followed by 30 mins cardio. Question here - I understand the point of the full body workout helping to deplete that last bit of glycogen store, but isn't this counter-productive to your actual lifts by not allowing enough rest? In other words I'd be doing legs again when I just did the Wednesday? I'm not understanding this part - can somebody elaborate on what a full body workout would be like (i.e. low intensity? 1 set per body part?)

2000 calories daily
25g or 100 calories from carbs
300g or 1200 calories from fat
150g or 600 calories from protein (isn't this too low? This isn't even 1g per lb. of LBM)

I would VERY much like to continue on the CKD throughout Friday, and then just take Sat. and Sun. for the carb loading... but I recall reading TOP saying this is a bad idea. Can anybody confirm this, and possibly explain why?

My other option is to drop CKD right after my full body workout and start the carb loading immediately... throughout Friday, all of Saturday, and about 1/2 way into Sunday... with carbs tapering off mid-day Sunday. Please keep in mind I workout at 5:30am, so my carb loading would start Friday at around 7:30am - that would mean ALL day Friday, ALL day Saturday, and some of Sunday - 2.5 days seems like a bit much, particularly with my alleged sensitivity to carbs.

Guys, ANY help you can offer me to tweak this would be greatly appreciated. I want to get off on the right foot here, this is really my last ditch effort at cutting because so far, nothing else has proven much for me. I think 2 solid months on 40/40/20 is enough to see something, and I don't feel it's working out.

I am going to Mexico on April 14th and am hoping to get close to 10% before I leave - is this reasonable? I believe i'm around 14% - 15% now - check my most recent pics in he members pictures section and let me know what you think. Thank you!

PS - if anybody can post or PM me a sample of their CKD diet, I would be very grateful. This is uncharted territory for me and I am very hesitant that I will F it up!

**TOP** · 02-22-2010, 01:52 PM

^You have a pm sir!

**csavage0** · 02-22-2010, 01:59 PM

Just started the Ckd did the diet before it works wonderful. Should I go 2 weeks before I start the carb up meals once a week? My stats are 22 yo 6ft 1 234 lbs about 14 %. I'm running in the morning or should I say very slow jog for 60 min burning 900 cal give or take. Lifting on a 5 day split. After doing the no carb when my carb up meal comes I'm currious to how many carbs I want to take in for this carb up meal ? Would 2 cups of oats or a ft long sub from subway (chickenbreast) be too much. Oh btw I'm only eating 2300 cal a day can I bump this up? 2300 is my BMR and I only eat that much bc my job is at a desk

**edgarr** · 02-22-2010, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by edgarr

week 4 gone. looking better and stronger but still at the same weight after week 1. I have only lost 5 lbs. Is this normal?

Made some changes now the diet is 65% fat 30% pro and 5% carb with just less the 21g of carbs per day.

These macros have me at 714 under TDEE if I use Moderatley Active or 416 under if I use lightly active. I plan on keeping up my 5 day workout routine with 5 day twice a day cardio so my guess is that I should see some drops here in the next couple of weeks or something is wrong.

I carb up Sat through mid day Sunday. Should I focus on just being at TDEE on this carb up, I think I read that cals really weren't that important on the carb up days??

**gbrice75** · 02-22-2010, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by edgarr

Made some changes now the diet is 65% fat 30% pro and 5% carb

This is exactly what I was planning, on 2000 calories a day.

**edgarr** · 02-22-2010, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

This is exactly what I was planning, on 2000 calories a day.

I was at 60-35-5 before and just over 2000, now I'm at 1930 cals

**gbrice75** · 02-22-2010, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by edgarr

I was at 60-35-5 before and just over 2000, now I'm at 1930 cals

Nice, it's good to have somebody else doing something so close to what you're doing. What do you think so far? Were you saying above that after 4 weeks you've only lost a total of 5lbs? If so, is it possible you've made any gains in the gym? Doubtful at 2000 calories, but asking because 5lbs loss in 4 weeks does sound kind of low for this diet.

Would you mind giving me a glimpse of your diet?

**gbrice75** · 02-22-2010, 07:44 PM

So i've been reading 'The Anabolic Diet' (thanks TOP!!!), and i'm only on page 26 of 112, but from what i'm gathering from it so far, ANYTHING GOES on the weekend carb up... is this true? Quoting the book, "if you want to have pizza and a beer, that's ok". This is contrary to what i've read on this thread which is to keep fats very low during the carb up phase. It makes sense to keep fats low, but i'd just like clarification.

Second - i'm wondering how clean one needs to eat on this diet during the week? I would imagine the cleaner the food (i.e. chicken breast instead of bacon), the better the results. BUT this would make it much more difficult (for me) to stay on the diet. Giving up carbs is much easier knowing you can eat bacon, taylor ham, butter, etc. How clean do you need to eat?

Finally, i'm looking for a relatively complete list of acceptable foods. This may be in the book and I just haven't gotten to that point yet - if so, let me know. However I am seriously considering starting this on Monday and want to do my homework and be ultra prepared, no surprises a week or two in. Assuming carbs need to be kept very low (30g or less?) - it seems like even natty PB is out of the question as it has about 6g carbs, 2 of which are sugar. That sucks! Also, with a 65/30/5 split (F/P/C), it would seem difficult to get in that much fat without getting more protein just by default? I mean I could always just consume olive oil to make up additional fat, but who does that?

Any help is greatly appreciated, as always. Also - if I should start my own thread and/or move this to it, let me know - I do not mean to hijack and make this thread about me.

Based on your feedback, i will be posting a proposed meal plan. Thanks!!!

**edgarr** · 02-22-2010, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Nice, it's good to have somebody else doing something so close to what you're doing. What do you think so far? Were you saying above that after 4 weeks you've only lost a total of 5lbs? If so, is it possible you've made any gains in the gym? Doubtful at 2000 calories, but asking because 5lbs loss in 4 weeks does sound kind of low for this diet.

Would you mind giving me a glimpse of your diet?

I'll post my diet later.

I have been a little disappointed in the weight loss but I have gotten stronger in the gym and I do look better. I've been losing BF so can not complain. I really want to stay around 175-180 and just be around 12% or less. So it is working.

**gbrice75** · 02-23-2010, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by edgarr

I'll post my diet later.

I have been a little disappointed in the weight loss but I have gotten stronger in the gym and I do look better. I've been losing BF so can not complain. I really want to stay around 175-180 and just be around 12% or less. So it is working.

When you say you've been disappointed in the weight loss, do you mean specifically your weight in terms of numbers? If so, with all due respect I think that's a bit misguided - you say you're getting stronger and look better, so if that's true and you are actually losing bodyfat, then you MUST be gaining muscle as well which is UNBELIVABLE at 2000 calories! Worst case scenario you're not losing muscle which is the best one could hope for on a low cal/cutting diet. When can we see some pics?

**TOP** · 02-23-2010, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

so i've been reading 'the anabolic diet' (thanks top!!!), and i'm only on page 26 of 112, but from what i'm gathering from it so far, anything goes on the weekend carb up... Is this true? Quoting the book, "if you want to have pizza and a beer, that's ok". This is contrary to what i've read on this thread which is to keep fats very low during the carb up phase. It makes sense to keep fats low, but i'd just like clarification.i dont agree with this,if i were you id read the bodyopus book first. Its a more in depth look at what needs to happen.also the anabolic diet is targeted more towards non disciplined as to where the bodyopus is targeted towards the the person wanting the most out of themselves.

second - i'm wondering how clean one needs to eat on this diet during the week? I would imagine the cleaner the food (i.e. Chicken breast instead of bacon), the better the results. But this would make it much more difficult (for me) to stay on the diet. Giving up carbs is much easier knowing you can eat bacon, taylor ham, butter, etc. How clean do you need to eat? whole eggs bacon and sausage are not the enemy people makie them out to be. Keep reading the book!

finally, i'm looking for a relatively complete list of acceptable foods. This may be in the book and i just haven't gotten to that point yet - if so, let me know.keep reading the back of the book even has daily calorie meal plans. however i am seriously considering starting this on monday and want to do my homework and be ultra prepared, no surprises a week or two in. Assuming carbs need to be kept very low (30g or less?) - it seems like even natty pb is out of the question as it has about 6g carbs, 2 of which are sugar. That sucks! Also, with a 65/30/5 split (f/p/c), it would seem difficult to get in that much fat without getting more protein just by default? I mean i could always just consume olive oil to make up additional fat, but who does that?

Any help is greatly appreciated, as always. Also - if i should start my own thread and/or move this to it, let me know - i do not mean to hijack and make this thread about me. you dont have to start an additional thread keep it here.

Based on your feedback, i will be posting a proposed meal plan. Thanks!!!

~top