Time to shape up. what's my BF% ? other Q's

**stokedv** · 02-09-2010, 04:10 PM

21 Years old
5'11
205pnds
Fatso, with some muscle underneath. I would call 28% please help me determine, I attached pics.
Gym experience : Always started and stopped, due to stupidity, immature behavior, lack of discipline and commitment... you name it!

Always been moderately fat all my life, due to very poor diet/call-center lifestyle and I've been reading the forums here since i'm 18, without posting, just reading, mostly about gear. Thank god I ended up reading, I was about to sign up for gyno surgery.. had no idea...

So now I want to build a solid cutting diet, CKD style, with maybe 40g of carbs a day MAXIMUM coming from 1 peace of wholewheat bread(not every day) or oats in the morning (15-20g carbs breakfast meal, 50% of daily carb intake, is that ok?) and veggies (mostly broc). As people here are pretty good with predicting bf% I want to calculate my TDEE and stuff. I will be posting my macros right after I get a solid prediction. Electronic scale calls 29%, no pinch test is administered at my gym lol. Never got pinch tested in my life.
I have been going to the gym 6 times a week for 2 weeks (week 3 now).

Milos Sarcev videos are great, and I will be using formulas and info from Jamyjams sticky.

My goal is to cut 2 pounds a week, for 8 weeks, which should cut me 16 pounds of realistic losses. Then I want to run a cycle, but discussion about that coming up near April. All I can say now is that it's going to be Test E only , with solid PCT and bulk diet.

Thanks and RIP T-MOS, Thanks Jamyjam, Perfectbeast, Musclescience
Special thanks to Cory (Nark) for his diet info contribution to this forum, I should say he is definitely THE diet guru, you motivated me lots this time bro.

Thanks in advance for the info brothaz! more questions and info to come.

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**stokedv** · 02-09-2010, 08:01 PM

Maybe i should have posted this in "pics" forum sorry for that but 17 views and zero replys is really deceiving yo

***FireGuy*** · 02-09-2010, 08:13 PM

You would probably get a few more replies if you actually listed the planned diet. After reading your post I am not exactly sure what you want people to comment on. I would agree your bodyfat is close to 30% and may even be a tad higher. As far as your goal of losing 16lbs then going on a bulk diet,,,I would shout NO!! All thats going to do is get you very fat again. You are at least 30lbs of fat loss away from the words "Bulk" or "Steroids ". Even then you are still far too young and have not even begun to master basic diet and training principles. Sorry if that sounds harsh I am just telling you the truth.

**Damienm05** · 02-09-2010, 08:27 PM

Stoked, I don't know if you remember me but you were the guy who posted a lot of good info for me when I started my first thread here. That said, I owe you one.

I'd say you're a bit higher than your estimated 28% first of all but it's a close enough estimate to determine your BMR and TDEE. Once we get those numbers dialed in; I'd agree that CKD would be the way to go. You'll see rapid fat loss, as much as 1 lb. per day initially with all that extra body fat. You haven't been in the gym as of late and with all due respect, you don't have much muscle to lose - based on that, I'd say no carbs at all minus your veggies during the week and a very large caloric deficit. As much as 800 below your TDEE. Add in some cardio and it won't take long at all. I wouldn't focus on building muscle right now at all. I don't mean you shouldn't train but focus on conditioning, not size. I only know what worked for me, and that was eating minimally and doing a ton of cardio. Sure, I lost some strength (minimal) when I got back heavy into bodybuilding but don't let anyone tell you that you'll waste away and your body will eat all your muscle; you've got plenty of fat for it to live off of. Firgeuy is spot on, in that bulking shouldn't be in your vocab at the moment. Get lean and stay that way for a little while, during which time you can experiment with what diet works best for you (assuming you come off CKD upon reaching goal weight).

Get some numbers up and read Top's "cyclic ketogenic diet" thread. We'll go from there.

**crazypat123** · 02-09-2010, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

You would probably get a few more replies if you actually listed the planned diet. After reading your post I am not exactly sure what you want people to comment on. I would agree your bodyfat is close to 30% and may even be a tad higher. As far as your goal of losing 16lbs then going on a bulk diet,,,I would shout NO!! All thats going to do is get you very fat again. You are at least 30lbs of fat loss away from the words "Bulk" or "Steroids". Even then you are still far too young and have not even begun to master basic diet and training principles. Sorry if that sounds harsh I am just telling you the truth.

x2

***FireGuy*** · 02-09-2010, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by Damienm05

Stoked, I don't know if you remember me but you were the guy who posted a lot of good info for me when I started my first thread here. That said, I owe you one.

I'd say you're a bit higher than your estimated 28% first of all but it's a close enough estimate to determine your BMR and TDEE. Once we get those numbers dialed in; I'd agree that CKD would be the way to go. You'll see rapid fat loss, as much as 1 lb. per day initially with all that extra body fat. You haven't been in the gym as of late and with all due respect, you don't have much muscle to lose - based on that, I'd say no carbs at all minus your veggies during the week and a very large caloric deficit. As much as 800 below your TDEE. Add in some cardio and it won't take long at all. I wouldn't focus on building muscle right now at all. I don't mean you shouldn't train but focus on conditioning, not size. I only know what worked for me, and that was eating minimally and doing a ton of cardio. Sure, I lost some strength (minimal) when I got back heavy into bodybuilding but don't let anyone tell you that you'll waste away and your body will eat all your muscle; you've got plenty of fat for it to live off of. Firgeuy is spot on, in that bulking shouldn't be in your vocab at the moment. Get lean and stay that way for a little while, during which time you can experiment with what diet works best for you (assuming you come off CKD upon reaching goal weight).

Get some numbers up and read Top's "cyclic ketogenic diet" thread. We'll go from there.

He may be able to lose a pound a day on some days but it's never going to be all fat.

**stokedv** · 02-09-2010, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Damienm05

Stoked, I don't know if you remember me but you were the guy who posted a lot of good info for me when I started my first thread here. That said, I owe you one.

I'd say you're a bit higher than your estimated 28% first of all but it's a close enough estimate to determine your BMR and TDEE. Once we get those numbers dialed in; I'd agree that CKD would be the way to go. You'll see rapid fat loss, as much as 1 lb. per day initially with all that extra body fat. You haven't been in the gym as of late and with all due respect, you don't have much muscle to lose - based on that, I'd say no carbs at all minus your veggies during the week and a very large caloric deficit. As much as 800 below your TDEE. Add in some cardio and it won't take long at all. I wouldn't focus on building muscle right now at all. I don't mean you shouldn't train but focus on conditioning, not size. I only know what worked for me, and that was eating minimally and doing a ton of cardio. Sure, I lost some strength (minimal) when I got back heavy into bodybuilding but don't let anyone tell you that you'll waste away and your body will eat all your muscle; you've got plenty of fat for it to live off of. Firgeuy is spot on, in that bulking shouldn't be in your vocab at the moment. Get lean and stay that way for a little while, during which time you can experiment with what diet works best for you (assuming you come off CKD upon reaching goal weight).

Get some numbers up and read Top's "cyclic ketogenic diet" thread. We'll go from there.

F*** YEAH I remember you buddy ... F*** YEAH I haven't been to the gym in a while.. I got all the knowledge I need to lose the fat but the bro's and the beers and the hoes at the club where you drink fosho braught my lovehandle size to INSANE. I'm so embaressed this shit gotta go. I will base my TDEE and all other calculations at 35% Bf (reasonable? or not?), max 20g carbs on high intensity days and near 0 on rest/cardio only days, all coming from broccoli, spinach, lettuce.. and that 1 peace of ezekiel bread with the eggs in the morning it makes the meal so much better and tastyer to eat.. any other bread you guys can recommend in my case? whats the lowest GI bread out there? I hate oats.. I think this is what made me quit every time I tried to diet...

**stokedv** · 02-09-2010, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

He may be able to lose a pound a day on some days but it's never going to be all fat.

Yeah I hear you man I have a long ways to go... thanks for your advice I will mosdef be around the diet section .. It always has been my favorite section of the forums.. but paid meals at work from the restaurant ended now: I have been eating 4 meals eggs in the morning and i take 2 meals at work with me in one tupperware 1 tomato with 1 can tuna and the other tupperware 8-10oz grilled chik breast with 1 cup boiled broc/steamed veg/salad no dress with tbsp EVOO. after that I workout and eat last meal chick breast/Ultralean Ground Beef with 2 romaine salad leafs. If I get really hungry, and I usually do I eat 1-2 Tbsp natty pb depending on how my day was. 1.5 gal water. NOTHING ELSE. I will be posting my macros soon i'm on it..

**Damienm05** · 02-09-2010, 11:32 PM

I'd stay away from the PB. It's always been dangerous for me on keto, in that 1) it's high in carbs as keto food goes 2) it's too damn good and a very high-cal food - an extra serving or 2 or even just over-estimating serving size can completely negate a caloric deficit for the day. I noticed I stopped losing fat when I did keto eating this as a snack, I started seeing more ab definition after I just started counting out like 20-30 almonds or had some chia seeds w/ splenda for 2 weeks. The great thing about CKD is that if you're forced to have some cheese or pepperoni or ham or lamb, etc, etc at work or when out, it won't hinder fat loss provided cals r in check. Still, i think it's plain silly to get in the habit of eating that kinda stuff regularly.

**stokedv** · 02-09-2010, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Damienm05

I'd stay away from the PB. It's always been dangerous for me on keto, in that 1) it's high in carbs as keto food goes 2) it's too damn good and a very high-cal food - an extra serving or 2 or even just over-estimating serving size can completely negate a caloric deficit for the day. I noticed I stopped losing fat when I did keto eating this as a snack, I started seeing more ab definition after I just started counting out like 20-30 almonds or had some chia seeds w/ splenda for 2 weeks. The great thing about CKD is that if you're forced to have some cheese or pepperoni or ham or lamb, etc, etc at work or when out, it won't hinder fat loss provided cals r in check. Still, i think it's plain silly to get in the habit of eating that kinda stuff regularly.

I hear you bro thank you for the reply .. no more pb .. it was my favorite thing ... its so damn good.. I will stay away from the cheese aswell for now.. dairy is scary stuff as I heard.. i will eat very tiny to moderate.. still eat chick breast lean beef and steak.. I dunno if I will cheat for the next 2 weeks.. I feel desperate fellas..

**amcon** · 02-09-2010, 11:58 PM

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/body-fat-calculator/ body fat calucator - it will get you close and you can remeasure when you loose more weight and have a base line to start from -

i would say 20 + and i would focus on diet and training (cardio and weights)

**Damienm05** · 02-10-2010, 12:14 AM

Man, I've got some serious keto recipes that will make you feel like you are cheating. Granted, they are high cal but cheesecake and chocolate cake are both possible. Again, there are many psychological perks to ckd.

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by amcon

http://www.bmi-calculator.net/body-fat-calculator/ body fat calucator - it will get you close and you can remeasure when you loose more weight and have a base line to start from -

i would say 20 + and i would focus on diet and training (cardio and weights)

Tnx bro will take a look at this one I got some numbers comming but it sucks how I can't get a precise bf%.. I will consider 32 for now will make couple calculations see what comes best.. but still I will eat really low ..
I should remove that peace of bread with the eggs in the morning shouldn't I ..

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Damienm05

Man, I've got some serious keto recipes that will make you feel like you are cheating. Granted, they are high cal but cheesecake and chocolate cake are both possible. Again, there are many psychological perks to ckd.

Daniem dude you got my breathtaking attention.... I LOVE cooking... cheesecake is my favorite of all deserts... I won't be trying it soon tho but in like 3-4 weeks I would have a peace fosho plz pm me or plz post some links here.. I will search keto receipz aswell

**Damienm05** · 02-10-2010, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by stokedv

I should remove that peace of bread with the eggs in the morning shouldn't I ..

yeah...

**amcon** · 02-10-2010, 12:22 AM

no bro biggest thing you can do right now is eat... yes lower carbs but you still need to eat carbs...

search diet and watch the milos vids ... they will help a lot!!!!!

eat your carbs early on or before you work out ... keep them in check (watch the videos it will show y ou what that means)

the bf is reletive if you 32 and loose 20 lbs and that drops you bf down to 25 you know that about every 20 lbs is worth 5 to 7 bf%ages ... it will help keep you motivated with small numbers that are achievable

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by amcon

no bro biggest thing you can do right now is eat... yes lower carbs but you still need to eat carbs...

search diet and watch the milos vids ... they will help a lot!!!!!

eat your carbs early on or before you work out ... keep them in check (watch the videos it will show y ou what that means)

the bf is reletive if you 32 and loose 20 lbs and that drops you bf down to 25 you know that about every 20 lbs is worth 5 to 7 bf%ages ... it will help keep you motivated with small numbers that are achievable

Right on dude... one day I want to be sitting at 12-14%.. and do a cycle.. I read so much about gear but now realize that can't cycle for another maybe 2 years.. but thats cool I will do shit right and become real big with good quality gains...

**amcon** · 02-10-2010, 12:41 AM

bro you could be doing one alot soon based on a lot of conditions... max out your personal abilities first - get some blood test and get in the gym!!! lol the rest is just time

**mg1228** · 02-10-2010, 02:03 PM

i know damien said no pb---but my wife eats it 3 times a day and lost 19lbs in 4weeks on this diet hes telling u about with no weight training---so if it hepls u stick to the diet try it and see if it works---of course gotta get natty pb---they usually have 6 carbs with 1 being natural sugar per 2 tbsp---good luck---yea scrap the bread in the morning

**Damienm05** · 02-10-2010, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by mg1228

i know damien said no pb---but my wife eats it 3 times a day and lost 19lbs in 4weeks on this diet hes telling u about with no weight training---so if it hepls u stick to the diet try it and see if it works---of course gotta get natty pb---they usually have 6 carbs with 1 being natural sugar per 2 tbsp---good luck---yea scrap the bread in the morning

It works for many people but I personally always end up sneaking in extra and f*cking up! It's like the ultimate food for me with a lil splenda haha/

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by amcon

bro you could be doing one alot soon based on a lot of conditions... max out your personal abilities first - get some blood test and get in the gym!!! lol the rest is just time

Just back from the gym.. feels great... I havnt eaten big in 2 weeks and a half.. my str is doooooowwwnnnnnn...

I just do 1 lifting exercise according to the muscle group split of the day and 40 min cardio right after every day except sunday.. I feel different every day .. fat is DEFINITELY going away people.. i wanna take pics in 4 weeks from now.. I will post fosho so other fatsos here can see what diet does...

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by mg1228

i know damien said no pb---but my wife eats it 3 times a day and lost 19lbs in 4weeks on this diet hes telling u about with no weight training---so if it hepls u stick to the diet try it and see if it works---of course gotta get natty pb---they usually have 6 carbs with 1 being natural sugar per 2 tbsp---good luck---yea scrap the bread in the morning

Maybe I will let pb back in the game in couple weeks.. i will be laying really low for now.. still eat 4 times a day to keep metabolism right but very little..
And yeah .. 4 eggwhites this morning with no bread .. nothing else.. then gym, then 8oz grilled chick breast.. nothing else.. now im about to eat 1 tomato and tuna.. last meal of the day will be 3 meatballs 98% beef totalling 7 oz with green tea.. I feel weired but diet is being good to me..

**mg1228** · 02-10-2010, 06:19 PM

u need more than 4 whites for breakfast---and after gym u need a fat source also---and with that tuna u need a fat source----this type of diet is high in fat moderate in protein and very low in carbs----

**Damienm05** · 02-10-2010, 06:55 PM

having been overweight at one point in my life myself, I understand the desire to get that fat off asap. That said, I have no problem with you eating only 4 meals daily but Mg's right in that you have to get at least 50% of your cals via fat. It sounds like a lot but the below diet would be perfect for you to drop weight right now.

Breakfast- 5 whole eggs. 2 Fish oil capsules.

Lunch - can of tuna w/ 1 tbspn. of mayo and 1 tbspn. flax oil. 1 cup green veg.

OR

Rotisserie chicken leg quarter with 1 cup green veg in EVOO.

dinner- Salmon or steak with 2 cups green veggies.

before bed - Casein shake w/ 1 tbspn. macadamia nut oil.

Tweak it however you want, protein sources are interchangeable but that's easy to follow.

**Damienm05** · 02-10-2010, 07:07 PM

What's your carb-up plan of attack?

**soulstealer** · 02-10-2010, 07:58 PM

I would strongly....strongly suggest you forget about "cutting" and "bulking" right now.... put yourself on a balance diet thats a few hundred calories below maintenance and lift like your trying to put on as much muscle as possible over the next 2-3 months then re assess..... but thats just my opinion... and INCLUDE CARDIO lol... but dont go overboard... like fireguy said you need to understand the basic principals of this before you get to the advanced end.... otherwise you WILL be counter productive...

***FireGuy*** · 02-10-2010, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

I would strongly....strongly suggest you forget about "cutting" and "bulking" right now.... put yourself on a balance diet thats a few hundred calories below maintenance and lift like your trying to put on as much muscle as possible over the next 2-3 months then re assess..... but thats just my opinion... and INCLUDE CARDIO lol... but dont go overboard... like fireguy said you need to understand the basic principals of this before you get to the advanced end.... otherwise you WILL be counter productive...

Completely agree except instead of 2-3 months I would say 10-12 months.

**soulstealer** · 02-10-2010, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Completely agree except instead of 2-3 months I would say 10-12 months.

I just meant re assess from a strictly dietary/weight training standpoint... I agree no "bulking" or "cutting" for a year is a good idea....

**TOP** · 02-10-2010, 08:42 PM

Lots of good advice in this thread. OP just say no to the drugs

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 09:03 PM

Originally Posted by **TOP**

Lots of good advice in this thread. OP just say no to the drugs

Righ on TOP I appreciate your input into all this.. yeah no drugs for couple years... will toss that bottle of Mdrol I guess

oh yeah I take caffeine .. i know ECA stack would be more complete I will maybe get into that .. I was thinking about clen but so many reports with dudes having heart inflammations and they get sent to the hospital from the treadmill and shit... I wont be touching clen for now..

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

I would strongly....strongly suggest you forget about "cutting" and "bulking" right now.... put yourself on a balance diet thats a few hundred calories below maintenance and lift like your trying to put on as much muscle as possible over the next 2-3 months then re assess..... but thats just my opinion... and INCLUDE CARDIO lol... but dont go overboard... like fireguy said you need to understand the basic principals of this before you get to the advanced end.... otherwise you WILL be counter productive...

The thing I least want to be is counterproductive so yeah im all into the whole diet thing now... and cardio is sometimes 2 times a day.. 30 after lift exercise or 45+ by itself.. I will mosdef reasses diet to be as effective as possible.

**stevey_6t9** · 02-10-2010, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by mg1228

u need more than 4 whites for breakfast---and after gym u need a fat source also---and with that tuna u need a fat source----this type of diet is high in fat moderate in protein and very low in carbs----

please elaborate on this statement, i dont understand the benefit of fats pwo.

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Completely agree except instead of 2-3 months I would say 10-12 months.

I have had this fat for the longest time so yeah a 10 months to a year sounds harsh but right.. I'll be there it's worth it

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

please elaborate on this statement, i dont understand the benefit of fats pwo.

yeah interesting

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Damienm05

What's your carb-up plan of attack?

Carbs => Enemy
On Saturday before I go for cardio I might eat something small and not so catholic but I do not anticipate any other carb-up plans for another 2 weeks..

Any advice on that subject would be appreciated aswell bro

**soulstealer** · 02-10-2010, 09:29 PM

If I were to train you I would have you weight training 5 days a week 25 minutes of cardio PWO ED that you train... and setup your macro's like

250g protein
150g carbs
90g fat

with all of your carbs in the am and pre/post workout.... eating every 3 hours give or take... with a ton of leafy greens... just some ideas to get you started...

and run with that... see where you are at weight wise and body comp wise in 3 months and adjust the training and diet accordingly...

Also on your non training days have you just eat 50g of carbs in the am and that would have you auto carb cycling... just my way of doing things... and just a few ideas to get you started...

**stokedv** · 02-10-2010, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

If I were to train you I would have you weight training 5 days a week 25 minutes of cardio PWO ED that you train... and setup your macro's like

250g protein
150g carbs
90g fat

with all of your carbs in the am and pre/post workout.... eating every 3 hours give or take... with a ton of leafy greens... just some ideas to get you started...

and run with that... see where you are at weight wise and body comp wise in 3 months and adjust the training and diet accordingly...

Also on your non training days have you just eat 50g of carbs in the am and that would have you auto carb cycling... just my way of doing things... and just a few ideas to get you started...

I appreciate this input alot man.. Yeah in 3 months I should look different .. 150g carbs is soooo tempting.. but I am soooo carb sensitive.. Ill stick to fatty acids, chick breast tuna shrimp and veggies for now..

**soulstealer** · 02-10-2010, 10:08 PM

Its entirely up to you... but I will guarantee with almost 99% certainty that at 40g of carbs in the diet your describing will be a horrible waste of time....

**mg1228** · 02-10-2010, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by stevey_6t9

please elaborate on this statement, i dont understand the benefit of fats pwo.

well the way they were settin up his diet was basically keto---so if u aint gonna eat carbs for an energy source what r u gonna eat---thats right fat----in that post he had protein only in pre wo,pwo and ppwo---that wont work----take a look at the cyclic keto post by top if u want further explanation

**mg1228** · 02-10-2010, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by stokedv

I appreciate this input alot man.. Yeah in 3 months I should look different .. 150g carbs is soooo tempting.. but I am soooo carb sensitive.. Ill stick to fatty acids, chick breast tuna shrimp and veggies for now..

at 28%bf i think u are sensitive to carbs like donuts and pizza--no offense but u said in ur original post ur diet has been terrible over the years----carbs def aint bad if ur eatin the right ones