My new cutting diet - lots of flaws and holes please critique

[Big_Dan]

I reformulated my diet by lowering carbs, to see if that will help.
Check itout
Breakfast post cardio
Whole grain cereal (granola) with 2% milk
This is to spike insulin to prevent cortisol from morning cardio, and to fill me up. I dont want dextrose and whey in the morning...would eggs be ok?

Midmorning (this is at school and I need options, maybe cashews?)
Granola bar (180 cals)

Lunch
Tuna with mayo (fat free) with no bread

Mid afternoon
1 C cottage cheese (Casein)

Dinner
1 fist sized portion protein
1 tbsp olive oil in salad

After dinner snack
1C cottage cheese/Tuna or chicken with non fat mayo
MAYBE I can add 1tbsp natty pb here

What do you guys think?


__________________

[saboudian]

From the looks of it, i'd add up the calories if i were you. I'd be scared if i cut the calories that drastically so fast.

Also are u planning on cycling carbs? Might be something to consider.

[Big_Dan]

Ok first thing
THe second meal, I need to have something quick in school between periods. I most definetely cannot whoop out a can of tuna and the likes, and i have no authorization to buy protein powders, not even from cheap sources like proteinfactory.
Now is this granola bar at 180cals and 34g carbs alright. Its whole grain, and while might be processed, its got the fiber.

Second, first and second meal are my only carbs. Is this a good idea, to slowly go reducing carbs. I understand that i should add fats to meals that dont have carbs. Correct?

THird, suggest some calorie additions please.
Much appreciated.

[Big_Dan]

Also, what is a good site to add calories up?

[SwoleCat]

what's the deal with not being able to obtain protein powder? It's such a great tool to use with dieting/maintaining/etc........

Don't worry about having cereal after cardio to stop cortisol...........u need not eat that crap while dieting.............get some protein in here or you will really see what cortisol is all about............spiking insulin believing that is going to help is totally wrong........if u spike insulin and have nothing but CARBS to enter the bloodstream, you are NOT supporting muscular growth at all, and you're putting the fat RIGHT BACK by purposely spiking slin and storing those carbs as fat. That's not good whatsoever..................spike your slin only after a STRENUOUS weight training session.

As mentioned before, your caloric intake is too low. Talk about catabolic, well, there you go! Focus on protein and fat as your main sources, using carbs only as replinishment to muscle glycogen lost. Cardio does not require this refeed at all.

My programs and "Swole in the Wall" at GotFina.com may be something of interest to you. It seems you could obtain a great deal of info that would help you. You have a good drive I can see, it's just that the focus of what really matters for your goals as we have discussed, is way off base.

~SC~

[Big_Dan]

So Swole cat, you mean I can get some protein and fats in the mornings, like eggs? Id really like and enjoy that.
How about 2 eggs 1 white for healthy fats plus some wwbread and make that a meal.
What other additions to meals can I have? more tuna? an extra can here and there? more olive oil? what?

[BIG TEXAN]

Eat all the protein you want....well damn near. I'd eat more than 2 eggs in the morning, more like 5-6 eggs say 4 whites, 2 whole, some oats......I'll get back with ya.

[Warrior]

Originally posted by SwoleCat
Don't worry about having cereal after cardio to stop cortisol...........u need not eat that crap while dieting.............get some protein in here or you will really see what cortisol is all about............spiking insulin believing that is going to help is totally wrong........if u spike insulin and have nothing but CARBS to enter the bloodstream, you are NOT supporting muscular growth at all, and you're putting the fat RIGHT BACK by purposely spiking slin and storing those carbs as fat. That's not good whatsoever..................spike your slin only after a STRENUOUS weight training session.

Hey Swole - you are saying spiking insulin after a workout does not aid in muscle growth??? Spiking Insulin offsets cortisol production which then limits muscle catabloism - so more so, it stops atrophy rather then add to hypertrophy... the insulin then also acts as a transport for post workout nutrition for immediate recovery and muscle building...

I think what you are probably saying is you need to not only spike insulin as a means of recovery - but remember other macronutrients and metabolites at the same time. Like Whey Protein, Vitamin C, Glutamine, ... BUT - I just wanted to clear that up...

[Big_Dan]

Warrior i remember in a previous post you suggested no fats in the morning after morning cardio. Now people are suggesting eggs and oats.
What is the best breakfast post cardio (realistically, im not having dextrose)
Anyone?

[Big_Dan]

Also, could you give me examples of other meals, should i add more fats or simply more tuna and chicken? (canned)

[JasonNew-b]

Big_Dan, if you really want to hit the "diet" thing right, I'd suggest getting a hold of SwoleCat. This boy KNOWS his shit! Here's a link to a thread started by a guy that's on one of SwoleCat's personalized programs: http://www.anabolicreview.com/vbulle...threadid=39237

JMHO

[Big_Dan]

I know man but im 17 and my parents will never whoop out their credit card for a ripped bb despite him knowing his stuff. Unless its a free consultation i aint doing it.
So what can i do guys?

[SwoleCat]

I'M IN CAPS..........

Originally posted by Warrior

Hey Swole - you are saying spiking insulin after a workout does not aid in muscle growth??? YES, IF YOU ARE TAKING IN NUTRIENTS TO BENEFIT YOUR BODY AFTER A WEIGHT TRAINING WORKOUT, SUCH AS DEXTROSE AND WHEY PROTEIN, ALA, VS, ETC.........HELL, IF U ARE WORKING OUT YEAH OF COURSE, IT'S AN INTEGRAL PART OF MY PROGRAM...HOWEVER, HE IS DOING CARDIO ONLY, WHICH I DON'T CONSIDER IN NEED OF GLYCOGEN REPLINISHMENT. Spiking Insulin offsets cortisol production which then limits muscle catabloism AND SPIKING SLIN ON PURPOSE WITH CARBS WHEN YOUR GLYCOGEN STORES ARE FULL LEADS TO FAT STORAGE. EATING PROTEIN AND FATS INSTEAD OF CARBS WILL STILL STOP CATABOLISM BY WAY OF A POSITIVE NITROGEN BALANCE, AND YOU DON'T RUN THE RISK OF FAT STORAGE. MAKE SENSE? IT'S HOW I PERSONALLY LIVE, WHAT I DO TO COMPETE, AND IT'S WHAT ALL MY CLIENTS ARE DOING. ASK THEM AS WELL! I AM SURE WHACK HIMSELF CAN ATTEST TO IT. WHEN U SEE MY IN MY PICS IN ABOUT 4 WEEKS, YEAH, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I DID!..... - so more so, it stops atrophy rather then add to hypertrophy SEE ABOVE... the insulin then also acts as a transport for post workout nutrition for immediate recovery and muscle building......BRO, NO OFFENSE BUT YOU DO KNOW I CREATE CUSTOMIZED PROGRAMS, I KNOW THIS BASIC PRACTICE. I GUESS IT WAS WRITTEN BECAUSE YOU HAD MISUNDERSTOOD ME, IT'S ALL GOOD. SPIKING OF SLIN AFTER HEAVY WEIGHT TRAINING IS A COMMON PRACTICE.

I think what you are probably saying is you need to not only spike insulin as a means of recovery - but remember other macronutrients and metabolites at the same time. Like Whey Protein, Vitamin C, Glutamine, ... BUT - I just wanted to clear that up... YES, THAT IS WHAT I MEANT MY MAN.

~SC~

[Warrior]

Originally posted by Big_Dan
Warrior i remember in a previous post you suggested no fats in the morning after morning cardio. Now people are suggesting eggs and oats.
What is the best breakfast post cardio (realistically, im not having dextrose)
Anyone?

Your postworkout meal should include good fats... the meal eaten within 2 hours after training. But fats buffer the response you get from a post workout nutrition. They slow the absorbtion. So immeditaly after training you are looking for two groups: Carbs/Protein.

Swole - I think we are on the same level. But I do believe carbs are absoltely necessary post workout with protein and avoided fats for the reason above. And yes - excess carbohydrates (especially too many simple) leads to bodyfat and water retention - but the best window for carbohydrates, especially simpl, is post workout when glycogen stores are very low and need to be restored to stp muscle wasting... especially for those on an training advanced split. And it puts the body straight into recovery the fastest. And recovery before the next workout is mandatory. Fats slow the post workout nutrition process. But if you have found fat/protein helps your clients immediatly post workout - all the better... I just have never heard such a thing b4... are these trained/advanced athletes or your average Joe looking to lose weight?

[Big_Dan]

Ok so what do you guys think is good for a postworkout meal
1 C oatmeal
4 eggwhites

OR
2 eggs
2 eggwhites

Please tweak the rest of my diet!!

[AbsolutelyLethal]

This is a bit off topic but it relates somewhat for you Dan. A friend of mine did this to lose weight.

Morning- 6 egg whites, cup of oatmeal, 2+ cups of water.

Snack- Myoplex w or w/out creatine works. Water
I dont know what you can use for meal replacement here dan...

Lunch - Can of Tuna with some brown rice, 2+ cups of water

Snack - Same as above snack

Dinner- Chicken or Clean source of protein. More water.


Maybe you could use Turkey as a source of protein. Maybe one slice of unprocessed wholewheat STONEGROUND, heard it was the best for you, with a ton of turkey could be your snack at school. Throw like 6 slice on the bread, fold it up, throw some mustard and/or mayo on, some lettuce for roughage, and eat it real quick between periods.

[Big_Dan]

I decided that im shelling out the money for whey protein and still have some left from (yuck) optimum nutrition.
So here goes to everyone that is helping me out

Meal 1 post cardio
4 eggwhites, 1 whole
1 C oatmeal with milk and sweetener and cinnamon

Meal 2
One scoop whey 25g P

Meal 3 Lunch
Tuna with miracle whip non fat

Meal 4
One scoop whey 25gP
1 tbsp natty pb/1 tbsp olive oil

Meal 5
1 fist size portion protein
1 tbsp olive oil in salad

Meal 6
Can of chicken/tuna

What do you guys say??????
Im really interested and cant wait to start! Help me out!
Thanks! Dan

[AbsolutelyLethal]

Dan heres a site that lists a gamut of foods & their nutritional values...Sit down with word or excel and add all the important values(Cals, Carbs, Protein, Fat(sat and unsat)) up and see if its in the ranges you want....

Forgot to add the site:
http://www.ntwrks.com/~mikev/chart3a.htm

[SwoleCat]

that looks a lot better.............make sure if u do weight training, u have meals with carbs after, and have the first one be liquid if u can......

Warrior, like I said, I don't consider cardio an activity that requires muscle glycogen to be re-filled, henceforth the protein for growth and recovery to continue, and fat to convince the body to shed fat as it's being ingested................................

the glycogen re-feed and carbs come with the weight training that is done, not cardio.

~SC~

[Warrior]

Originally posted by SwoleCat
Warrior, like I said, I don't consider cardio an activity that requires muscle glycogen to be re-filled, henceforth the protein for growth and recovery to continue, and fat to convince the body to shed fat as it's being ingested................................

the glycogen re-feed and carbs come with the weight training that is done, not cardio.

~SC~

Ahhhh... I see what you are saying...

[Pete235]

Originally posted by Big_Dan
I know man but im 17 and my parents will never whoop out their credit card for a ripped bb despite him knowing his stuff. Unless its a free consultation i aint doing it.
So what can i do guys?

I don't blame you! No offense to SC as it is VERY obvious he knows his stuff. But, if you do work hard and enough reseach on the web (on your own....don't depend on others), you can easily find all the information you will ever need! I would never pay for something that I could find on my own with a little bit of work!!


Dan, I have read your threads for months and I can tell you very simply what your main set back is......you have not yet comitted to any one diet! It seems to me that you change things WAY too frequently and NEVER give your programs a chance to work. Results are not instant, quite the contrary, sometimes it will take 2-3 months before you start making noticable changes. You have to select a program, commit to that program and follow it religiously for a period of at least 3 months!!! Time is on your side young man! If after 3 months you are not getting ther results you want, THEN you can make a change!!! Commit and stick to it....it's that simple!! Good luck!

[SwoleCat]

find information, yes, but if you don't know what to look for or how to assimilate it so that it works, you end up going in circles quite like we see right now. Also, don't believe everything you read, as some of the shit I see is ridiculous!

No offense taken, I have my clients and more to come. I don't push my programs on anyone, I'm simply only here to help! Besides, my cost is about 1/20th of what any personal trainer would ever charge you, and my focus is nutrition, not the weight training portion. That is the huge difference, and it's the reason EVERYONE succeeds with me.

Some just don't know, and like to have someone lay it all out flawlessly the FIRST time.............well, that's me!

Back to work!

~SC~

[Big_Dan]

Thanks guys im definetely making a commitment to stick to this one.
Ive read though that carbs should either be at 150g or none at all. Why is this? Should i leave the 1c oatmeal after carbs or gocarbless?
Today i went carbless andafter the eggs I felt the hunger so that was good.
Im running everyday and some days i might even run twice a day. With this much protein i doubt ill lose any muscle.
Do you guys have any other nutritional calculators, this ones VERY hard to find the foods with.
Cyberdiet use to have one but now they took it out.
So after the answer to the oatmeal question, could someone post the calculator info?
Alls apreciated.
Big Dan

[AbsolutelyLethal]

I gave you the wrong chart Dan...The one I gave you was organized by protein content....Heres one by names: http://www.ntwrks.com/~mikev/chart1a.htm

Cut off the Chart part to go to the guys site if you want. I added all things up in like 30 minutes in excel. Heres what I got...

[Big_Dan]

Hey absolutely lethal !
Thank you so much man!! Damn I needed that! Perfect. I perfected some things here and there and I have this for my diet

TOtal =
Cals 1860.5
233.6Protein
Fats5.45
Sat fat 10g
Carbs 46.2

There you have it. What do you guys think of this new diet. I left the oatmeal in and this is what it looks like.
2 wgike eggs
4 egg eggwhites
1c oatmeal
.5cup 2%milk

25g whey

canoftuna miracle whip

25g whey
1tbsp pb
1tbsp olive oil

6oz chicken breast
1tbspolive oil
vegetables

can of chicken (45g p)
miracle whip

The can of chicken is what bumped up the protein from 170 to 233. So im doing great with this diet and im starting it today.
WIsh me luck

[Warrior]

I think SwoleCat's program would do Big_Dan a lot of good for a few reasons. 1. He wants to be force fed info - he looks for info in the easiest places first - obviously he still has a lot of learning to do. The best place is a good book, abstracts, magazines that interpret the latest abstracts on the subject,... 2. He needs direction and has excepted he needs some change. 3. SwoleCat can fine tune a program to help you get on the right learning curve.

- But SwoleCat can't do it all for you, he can only give you the map... it's up to you to use it. But if you can't make a donation for his time... than so be it. Start researching - we can't write you a new article on basic stuff all the time... there are plenty already available. All over the net, the search engine here, and in books.

And like Pete said - you got to stick to something...

[Big_Dan]

Ok now that i have it boiled down , should i still have the oatmeal post cardio or not?
What if I do cardio twice a day on some days as ive been doing (lost 1kg already on high carb diet) should i add the post"workout" carbs?
Whats swoles and warriors decision on this?

[Big_Dan]

Im starting to workout again - my report card came in and its great - so now I have my allowance back and my money up again.
I dont have the money though for dextrose even though its cheap - i have to go with what i can find at home.
So my questien is, can i sub that tbsp of pb for 1/2 c oats to refuel my muscle glycogen, and then put that tbsp of pb in with the last snack?

To make up for cals, i took out the 1 tbsp of olive oil that went together with the whey.
What do you think?