Working on a diet. Need some input.

**rummyjoe** · 03-29-2010, 01:23 AM

My first attempt at a proper diet was way too complicated... Please realize that I am trying to make this as simple to prepare as possible. I DO NOT want to spend any time cooking if I don't need to. Rather spend it in the gym.

My Goal:
I am mainly trying to bulk up for summer. I do not however want to increase my BF% any higher then it is currently.

My Stats:
5'11''
183lbs
11%BF
Workout 6x week for about an hour
On cycle 500mgs Test E Weekly

Here is what I have so far: (all meat measurements are after cooking)
Protein/Carbs/Fat/Cal
Meal #1 (Breakfast)
6 egg whites - 24/0/0/102
Oats (1/2c Uncooked)- 5/27/3/150
2c Non-Fat Milk - 18/24/2/180
TOTAL MEAL - 47/51/5/432

Meal #2
Protein Whey/Casein - 49/10/5/280
V8 Vegetable Juice - 3/15/0/70
TOTAL MEAL - 52/25/5/350

Meal #3
4oz Chicken - 35/0/4/184
2/3c Peas - 4/12/0/70
1/2 Banana - 1/23/0/90
TOTAL MEAL - 40/35/4/344

Meal #4
4oz Top Round - 27/0/7/170
2c Non-Fat Milk - 18/24/2/180
TOTAL MEAL - 45/24/9/350

Meal #5
8oz Salmon - 56/0/8/336

Meal #6 (Post Workout)
Whey - 50/14/8/320
20oz Gatorade (During workout) - 0/35/0/125
1/2 Orange - 1/18/0/69
TOTAL MEAL - 51/67/8/514

Meal #7
8oz Non-Fat Cottage Cheese - 24/16/0/162

Ok... I realize PB and J is not a healthy meal... tons of fat, incomplete protein ect... but I just saw that I have a bunch of the stuff in my cabinet and I want to eat it. When I am out then the PBJ will be replaced with a better meal. Also, its really easy to take to work.
Meal #8 (Eaten at work for fuel)
PBJ - 15/41/17/380
Whey - 25/25/4/223
TOTAL MEAL - 40/66/21/603

TOTAL FOR DAY - (355g Protein)(284g Carbs)(60g Fat)(3091 Calories)

So lets hear what you all think!

**caffeine_menace** · 03-29-2010, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by rummyjoe

My first attempt at a proper diet was way too complicated... Please realize that I am trying to make this as simple to prepare as possible. I DO NOT want to spend any time cooking if I don't need to. Rather spend it in the gym.

My Goal:
I am mainly trying to bulk up for summer. I do not however want to increase my BF% any higher then it is currently.

My Stats:
5'11''
183lbs
11%BF
Workout 6x week for about an hour
On cycle 500mgs Test E Weekly

Here is what I have so far: (all meat measurements are after cooking)
Protein/Carbs/Fat/Cal
Meal #1 (Breakfast)
6 egg whites - 24/0/0/102
Oats (1/2c Uncooked)- 5/27/3/150
2c Non-Fat Milk - 18/24/2/180
TOTAL MEAL - 47/51/5/432

Meal #2 drop this whole meal do lean protein and complex carb
Protein Whey/Casein - 49/10/5/280
V8 Vegetable Juice - 3/15/0/70
TOTAL MEAL - 52/25/5/350

Meal #3
4oz Chicken - 35/0/4/184
2/3c Peas - 4/12/0/70
1/2 Banana - 1/23/0/90 drop banana and add complex carb(oats,brown rice sweet potato..ect..)
TOTAL MEAL - 40/35/4/344

Meal #4
4oz Top Round - 27/0/7/170
2c Non-Fat Milk - 18/24/2/180 Drop milk, add complex carb
TOTAL MEAL - 45/24/9/350

Meal #5
8oz Salmon - 56/0/8/336
Need to add complex carb for pre workout energy

Meal #6 (Post Workout)
Whey - 50/14/8/320
20oz Gatorade (During workout) - 0/35/0/125 better choice would be BCAA's in water
1/2 Orange - 1/18/0/69 drop and add 1 cup of oats
TOTAL MEAL - 51/67/8/514

Meal #7
8oz Non-Fat Cottage Cheese - 24/16/0/162 drop cheese,Need to add a real meal after workout, lean protein and some fibrous veggies....

Ok... I realize PB and J is not a healthy meal... tons of fat, incomplete protein ect... but I just saw that I have a bunch of the stuff in my cabinet and I want to eat it. When I am out then the PBJ will be replaced with a better meal. Also, its really easy to take to work.
Meal #8 (Eaten at work for fuel)
PBJ - 15/41/17/380 Drop the jelly and do 2 tbsp of natty pb only
Whey - 25/25/4/223 drop whey and do casein or do the cottage cheese here
TOTAL MEAL - 40/66/21/603

TOTAL FOR DAY - (355g Protein)(284g Carbs)(60g Fat)(3091 Calories)

So lets hear what you all think!

Im no expert like some of the others here but just pointing out some of the obvious stuff. If u want to use up the jelly add it to ur oats to sweetin it up untill all gone.....Im sure others will chime in...

**rummyjoe** · 03-29-2010, 02:02 PM

Meal #2
Whey and Casein are lean proteins and as far as I know vegetables are complex fibrous carbs. What is your reasoning behind replacing this meal?

Meal #3
I will move that banana to preworkout for extra energy.

Meal #4
Why drop the milk? It has just the extra amount of protein I need for the meal and 24g carbs to keep me moving until the next meal.

Meal #5
Banana now here

Meal #6
The reason why I have the orange post workout if for the insulin spike and to replenish glycogen, since there is a fair amount of sugar in orange i figured it would be a good addition post workout. As far as the Gatorade, I usually do not finish it unless my workout last longer then and hour and a half. The sugar keeps my intensity level up and so I don't start dragging ass.

Meal #7
Now will be:
4oz Chicken - 35/0/4/184
2/3c Peas - 4/12/0/70
TOTAL MEAL - 39/12/4/254

Meal #8
I use sugar free jelly so it is literally only 10cal. No need to drop that. I am using natty pb but there is still a huge amount of fat relative to the protein so I will be dropping it as soon as I run out.
I will add the non-fat cottage cheese for this meal.

Thank you for the input. I hope I did not come across argumentative. I am trying to explain my reasoning so I can be corrected if I have a misconception about proper dieting.

**RoadToRecovery** · 03-29-2010, 02:18 PM

I will come back later and help you sort everything out. I have to leave shortly but my post will keep me from having to search for this thread.

**Damienm05** · 03-29-2010, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by rummyjoe

Meal #2
Whey and Casein are lean proteins and as far as I know vegetables are complex fibrous carbs. What is your reasoning behind replacing this meal? His logic is that protein powder should only be consumed PWO in a perfect cutting diet. Granted, that when casein is in the mix, it will stay in your body a little longer, it's still not as good as 8 oz. of grilled chicken, for example.

Meal #3
I will move that banana to preworkout for extra energy. Silly. A banana is mainly sugar. It's a simple/fast carb and won't do you much good pre-workout. Substitute it for a complex carb as suggested and add another serving pre-workout. Minimally processed carbs like oats and sweet potatoes are best.

Meal #4
Why drop the milk? It has just the extra amount of protein I need for the meal and 24g carbs to keep me moving until the next meal. It's loaded with sugar and human beings lack the digestive enzymes to break down cow's milk as that animal is able to. That's why. I'd also drop it at breakfast in favor of a whole egg or two.

Meal #5
Banana now here See above. I'd do a large sweet potato.

Meal #6
The reason why I have the orange post workout if for the insulin spike and to replenish glycogen, since there is a fair amount of sugar in orange i figured it would be a good addition post workout. As far as the Gatorade, I usually do not finish it unless my workout last longer then and hour and a half. The sugar keeps my intensity level up and so I don't start dragging ass. You're dragging ass because you don't have complex carbs pre-workout. A sugary gatorade isn't the answer. BCAA's in water is a great idea however. Now, as for the orange PWO - it is not needed. The notion that you've fully depleted your glycogen and must have simple carbs PWO is no longer the gold standard in bodybuilding. You'll cut better without any sugar in your diet.

Meal #7
Now will be:
4oz Chicken - 35/0/4/184
2/3c Peas - 4/12/0/70 I'd do spinach, green beans, brocolli, cauliflower, or something else. Peas are high in sugar relative to fiber content and essential nutrients. Add 1 tbspn. EVOO to veggies.
TOTAL MEAL - 39/12/4/254

Meal #8
I use sugar free jelly so it is literally only 10cal. No need to drop that. I am using natty pb but there is still a huge amount of fat relative to the protein so I will be dropping it as soon as I run out.
I will add the non-fat cottage cheese for this meal. Cut the cottage cheese. It's high in sodium and sugar compared to casein protein. That said, 2 tbspn. natty PB, 2 scoops of casein would be a perfect before bed meal. Fats aren't your enemy. In the case of this meal, they are your best friend, don't drop the peanut butter. However, no carbs before bed!

Thank you for the input. I hope I did not come across argumentative. I am trying to explain my reasoning so I can be corrected if I have a misconception about proper dieting.

In addition to Caffeine's feedback, you're all set.

**caffeine_menace** · 03-29-2010, 04:52 PM

Just got back....Damien pretty much summed it up for ya....

**RoadToRecovery** · 03-29-2010, 07:49 PM

The notion that you've fully depleted your glycogen and must have simple carbs PWO is no longer the gold standard in bodybuilding. You'll cut better without any sugar in your diet.

This is simply false.

I have this saved as a word document:

Translocation of GLUT4 can also occur due to muscular contractions (2). So, weight lifting alone increases muscular insulin sensitivity - called insulin independent glucose uptake. Because of this fact, this time is ideal to take advantage of the nutrient partitioning (basically means where the nutrients go) effects of training. So, ideally we’re looking at a quick digesting carbohydrate to replenish the glycogen used while training and a quicker digesting protein to provide amino acids due to the increased protein synthesis that comes after training (for up to 36 hours (3)). The quickest digesting carbohydrate, glucose - also known as dextrose or corn sugar or even grape sugar - is probably the best idea. It’s also very cheap, especially if bought in bulk. Maltodextrin is also a good available source. It is known as a ‘complex carbohydrate’, purely on the grounds that it is a glucose polymer consisting of about 3-8 molecules. It is therefore too long to be classed as ‘simple’, and since there is no mid-classification, complex it is. This doesn’t stop it from digesting very quickly and doing the same job to insulin that glucose does. Maltodextrin is also a carbohydrate exploited by supplement companies for this very reason. They can claim it is a complex carb and it’s great in their MRPs. In all truth, it is the guar gum that they put in these products that slow digestion, not the maltodextrin. Any other time of day, just like glucose, it is a poor choice.

Once you’ve got the basic idea of a simple sugar post-workout, then you can experiment using different combinations of glucose and maltodextrin. It is usually recommended to make a 50/50 mix of the two, based on the differing absorption rates of the two carbs. Glucose requires no digestion and so once in the intestinal tract can pass straight through the wall lining. Maltodextrin, however, requires a bit of digestion to split it into the glucose molecules that make it up. The difference of digestion is not really that much in the way of time, but can make a big difference. This is because glucose enters the cell via active transport (4) and only so much can get through at any one time once the receptors are all being utilised. By taking in maltodextrin, the longer digestion and absorption rate means the glucose from the malto is getting to the cell more or less once the first glucose molecules are in. So you’re basically ‘lining the glucose up’.

**mg1228** · 03-29-2010, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by RoadToRecovery

This is simply false.

I have this saved as a word document:

those simple carbs arent gonna fully replenish glycogen stores by no means--

the biggest difference ive ever noticed by making a change in my diet--was from simple carbs to complex pwo--complex being much better for my physique

all i can say is try it both ways for atleast a month--and see what works better for u--

**RoadToRecovery** · 03-29-2010, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by mg1228

those simple carbs arent gonna fully replenish glycogen stores by no means--

the biggest difference ive ever noticed by making a change in my diet--was from simple carbs to complex pwo--complex being much better for my physique

all i can say is try it both ways for atleast a month--and see what works better for u--

When I find it, I have a study that proves that a majority of glycogen is replenished after 240 minutes of concentric exercises with a glucose and protein based meal during and immediately after the exercise.

**mg1228** · 03-29-2010, 08:50 PM

would like to look at it---although i would never go back to simple carbs pwo

got any studies with low gi carbs taken pwo?

**rummyjoe** · 03-30-2010, 12:58 AM

I have to agree with Roadtorecovery about the simple carbs post workout. Milos Sarcev swears by it and has all of his trainees add it into there post workout diets. I have heard it from many sources that it is actually better to have the simple carbs after a workout but obviously in moderation.

**RoadToRecovery** · 03-30-2010, 08:05 AM

Originally Posted by mg1228

would like to look at it---although i would never go back to simple carbs pwo

got any studies with low gi carbs taken pwo?

You know what, I might.

Here is that study I was talking about -

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten...93/4/1337#SEC1

Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement
J Appl Physiol 93:Vol. 93, Issue 4, 1337-1344, October 2002

In 240 min glycogen levels in the vastus lateralis were replenished by nearly 50%.

This was achieved by making flavored aqueous solutions of HCHO and LCHO by using the same formula of sucrose and maltodextrin as the commercial CHO-Pro supplement.

CHO-Pro = Carb and Protein meal containing 240 kcal (80 g) of carbohydrate + 84 kcal (28 g) of protein + 54 kcal (6 g) of fat.

**caffeine_menace** · 03-30-2010, 08:55 AM

I read through the study but it doesnt specify what kind of carbs they used....They just specify the amount of carbs,fat and protein given to each individual and were given in liquid form...wut i got from it was that a pro-carb supp is better than just a carb for pwo....But what type of carb is actually better to mix with ur protein for pwo??????

**RoadToRecovery** · 03-30-2010, 09:28 AM

I posted the carbs. Re-read my post.

**caffeine_menace** · 03-30-2010, 09:41 AM

OH ok missed that...

**mg1228** · 03-30-2010, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by RoadToRecovery

You know what, I might.

Here is that study I was talking about -

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/conten...93/4/1337#SEC1

Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement
J Appl Physiol 93:Vol. 93, Issue 4, 1337-1344, October 2002

In 240 min glycogen levels in the vastus lateralis were replenished by nearly 50%.

CHO-Pro = Carb and Protein meal containing 240 kcal (80 g) of carbohydrate + 84 kcal (28 g) of protein + 54 kcal (6 g) of fat.

id like to see a study that was done post resistance training---like most of us do---i guess if i was riding my bike for 2 hr i would drink some gatorade too.
over the period of 4 hr with supplements taken throughout they got glycogen back to 50%---im sure im back to that point too after pwo pro/carb and ppwo pro/carb and pppwo pro/carb--although i have no study to prove it

**RoadToRecovery** · 03-30-2010, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by mg1228

id like to see a study that was done post resistance training---like most of us do---i guess if i was riding my bike for 2 hr i would drink some gatorade too.
over the period of 4 hr with supplements taken throughout they got glycogen back to 50%---im sure im back to that point too after pwo pro/carb and ppwo pro/carb and pppwo pro/carb--although i have no study to prove it

Depletion from anaerobic exercise is not any more apparent then depletion from aerobic exercise. In fact, I have a study that talks about depletion from both anerobic and aerobic exercise for both type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers and the results are the same.

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/88/5/1529

**RoadToRecovery** · 03-30-2010, 11:02 AM

if you read on, they do 3 tests and seperate each test 1 month apart for each drink with exercise.

**mg1228** · 03-30-2010, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by RoadToRecovery

Depletion from anaerobic exercise is not any more apparent then depletion from aerobic exercise. In fact, I have a study that talks about depletion from both anerobic and aerobic exercise for both type 1 and type 2 muscle fibers and the results are the same.

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/88/5/1529

yea i wouldnt think it would b any different--but that study just showed that the pro/carb nutrition better restored glycogen than pro/fat--which we all know

a good study would b subject 1 taking pro/simple carbs and subject 2 taking pro/complex carb