Post workout hindering fat loss?

[Big_Dan]

Whatsup guys.
When I first started lifting I went on a diet with an insulin spiking
postworkout meal (http://body_insp.tripod.com) for my pics.
Now, I wanna make sure that the post workout meal wont hinder my fat loss goals one bit. Id rather have less muscle recovery and recover with oats if thats what it takes. So what do you guys think?
My cals of course are below AMR.
Heres my diet as you know.
Thanks for the answer.

Meal 1 post cardio
2 eggwhites, 2 whole
1 C oatmeal with milk and sweetener and cinnamon

Meal 2
One scoop whey 25g P

Meal 3 Lunch
Tuna with miracle whip non fat

Meal 4
One scoop whey 25gP
1 bottle gatorade/powerade

Meal 5
1 fist size portion protein
1 tbsp olive oil in salad

Meal 6
Can of chicken/tuna

[Big_Dan]

Of course meal 4 is post workout. Also, Im doing 45 mins 5 days a week of cardio, and lifting 3-4 days a week.

[SwoleCat]

remember u NEED PWO carbs to replinish glycogen and begin the recovery process. If you don't, well, I don't have to go there again do I?
Fat loss will not be hindered by allowing your muscles to grow, and more muscle makes it easier to, in turn, burn fat. Why workout at all lifting if you aren't going to do something to get more lean muscle tissue? Makes no sense to me.

Whatever you do, do it CONSISTENTLY for at least 4 weeks before you alter anything. Having to try one theory over and over because you never let it ride out, wastes many months/years more time.

~SC~

[yellows2k]

Insulin spikes are needed post workout and right when you wake up. It's the same condition, same catabolic phase and you need the simple sugars. All the sugars are doing are replacing the glycogen lost, THAT'S IT. Well, if you don't take in sugars, then you can always use your muscles for the energy. It looks like you are eating too few carbs/calories which will slow down fat loss and increase fat gain.

[Big_Dan]

Originally posted by yellows2k
Insulin spikes are needed post workout and right when you wake up. It's the same condition, same catabolic phase and you need the simple sugars. All the sugars are doing are replacing the glycogen lost, THAT'S IT. Well, if you don't take in sugars, then you can always use your muscles for the energy. It looks like you are eating too few carbs/calories which will slow down fat loss and increase fat gain.

INCREASE FAT GAIN? WHERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM?
HOW WILL MY DIET MAKE ME LOSE FAT IF I HAVE 500 CALS BELOW AMR????

[yellows2k]

There is no way that diet provides 500 below your maintenance. How much do u weight and how many calories do u eat and what are your macros. SOrry to jump to conclusions, lets see your numbers first.

[yellows2k]

And I'm not saying you are, but I'm explaining where the fat gains come from even though I know you aren't going to believe me. When you eat too few calories your body goes into starvation mode because it thinks its not getting enough calories. In this mode, your body will start depositing the calories you eat into fat basically. Also with a low carb diet, ex 50g, that will slow down your metabolism tremendously, thus resulting into the starvation mode.

[yellows2k]

Originally posted by Big_Dan


INCREASE FAT GAIN? WHERE THE HELL DID THAT COME FROM?
HOW WILL MY DIET MAKE ME LOSE FAT IF I HAVE 500 CALS BELOW AMR????

If you think all my posts are BS, if you want, I won't post in any of your threads anymore, just let me know. I won't be offended.

[Decoder]

dan your diet barely supports a females metabolism.

[Decoder]

IF i make you a diet that is perfect will you stop posting diet questions?
(i will do it)

[painintheazz]

Originally posted by Decoder
dan your diet barely supports a females metabolism.

He probably needs a few cheat days to bring the metabolism back up to par.

Pain

[SwoleCat]

when u are waaaaaaaaaay under calorically with the WRONG macro breakdowns, you won't really deposit fat as was stated, but in "starvation" mode, your body will burn precious lean muscle tissue FIRST before it burns bodyfat.....................especially if u are scared of fat and don't eat it! Your body will KEEP the fat as a survival instinct thinking u are not eating enough and aren't taking in enough fat. It will easily burn up precious lean muscle until the "operator" gets things in order. Just look at anorexics. As soon as they get over their disease and begin to eat "normally" again, they balloon up like hell............not because they are eating a ton of shit food, but it's because their lean muscle tissue is damn near all gone, and their metabolism definitely is.

~SC~XXL~2K3~

[yellows2k]

Originally posted by SwoleCat
when u are waaaaaaaaaay under calorically with the WRONG macro breakdowns, you won't really deposit fat as was stated, but in "starvation" mode, your body will burn precious lean muscle tissue FIRST before it burns bodyfat.....................especially if u are scared of fat and don't eat it! Your body will KEEP the fat as a survival instinct thinking u are not eating enough and aren't taking in enough fat. It will easily burn up precious lean muscle until the "operator" gets things in order. Just look at anorexics. As soon as they get over their disease and begin to eat "normally" again, they balloon up like hell............not because they are eating a ton of shit food, but it's because their lean muscle tissue is damn near all gone, and their metabolism definitely is.

~SC~XXL~2K3~

Thank you for clearing that up.

[BIG TEXAN]

Originally posted by Decoder
IF i make you a diet that is perfect will you stop posting diet questions?
(i will do it)

[Big_Dan]

It has 1800 cals , 233g protein, 45g of fat, around 100g carbs on workout days.
Add another can?
Actually, theres a mistake. To get to the above ratios, here it is.
Meal 1 post cardio
2 eggwhites, 2 whole
1 C oatmeal with milk and sweetener and cinnamon

Meal 2
One scoop whey 25g P

Meal 3 Lunch
Tuna with miracle whip non fat

Meal 4
One scoop whey 25gP
1 bottle gatorade/powerade

Meal 5
1 fist size portion protein
1 tbsp olive oil in salad
1tbsp natty pb (this wasnt added, it just was my mistake and didnt type it)

Meal 6
Can of chicken/tuna
Miracle whip. This is a big can of chicken, 400-450cals, 80g P.
Peace

[Big_Dan]

Also, I will stop posting dieting questions when im done learning.
Now, i can stop posting this diet if someone can provide clearups on what to do more efficiently both on workout days and cardio days. on workout days i do both (workout 1hr, cardio 45mins) and cardio only 45mins on cardio days obviously.
So if you guys can help me out with the food additions i need to make, please help me out.
I appreciate the help, and ease down on the tension, no need for it. I dont think your posts are bull yellow, its just that sometimes we disagree, and i think the forums are for that. Lets keep disagreeing i like to learn and so should you.

[Big_Dan]

bump for swole warrior etc

[SwoleCat]

being rude ("tension as u stated) in any response, but I was trying to give you key points in which to draw your conclusions and put the program together.

I'll refrain from chiming in to avoid any mis-labeling of being rude/ sarcastic/causing tension. Trust me when I say I have a plethora of other things I could be typing/doing.

Hope it all works out!

~SC~XXL~2K3~

[xenithon]

Hi there Big Dan,

My reply might be an interesting one and one which I hope to get some info/input on cause it got me confused

I was trying for a long time to cut that last bit of fat to get the abs really out for summer and to maintain leanness and vascularity. I got to a stage where I was low-carbing, around 150g on training days, 100 non training. Protein was high and fat was moderate. It worked well enough, though very slowly, and it included a regime where post workour would be whey shake with simple sugar (either honey or malto/dextrose mix). Then 1 or 1.5 hours later a meal with low GI carbs and protein. I then went to Australia on holiday and to visit family, for 2 months. Problem was I didn't have the dough for supplements there, at least not a lot. So, what I did was straight after a workout I would have a full meal with protein and a mix of low and high GI carbs, with little to no fat. The rest of the day was like normal, ie. i pretty much just skipped the PW shake. Example, I would have two steamed chicken breasts, with a bowl of oatmeal sweetened with a large tablespoon on honey. What I found was that I cut tremendously! I could finally get that leanness I was after for so long!

So, in summary, the PW shake being taken out helped me achieve the cut goals!

[yellows2k]

In these 2 months, what was your weight before and after, and what was your BF before and after?

[SwoleCat]

Originally posted by xenithon
Hi there Big Dan,

So, in summary, the PW shake being taken out helped me achieve the cut goals!

There had to be other factors as well that helped u get lean.

I STRONGLY advise NO ONE take out the first PWO meal in the form of liquid nutrition (dextrose/whey protein) as it's a primer for recovery.
Solid food just takes too damn long, and you are shooting yourself in the foot.

Sorry, I had to comment on this one!

~SC~

[xenithon]

no need to say sorry I too was a very strong advocate of the PWO liquid shake, but it was only after removing it that the leanness came. that's why i asked for any input cause I was quite confused. the total calories for the day remained the same (I balanced them out with other meals). i am not sure what else to say cause other factors remained the same, which again keeps me puzzled. before I was 80kg 12%, after 2 months I was about 75kg @ 9%.

[SwoleCat]

because if calories were the same, then that makes no sense, LOL!!

As well, immediately after working out (somewhat serious intensity) all of the pwo liquid dextrose and whey would be assimilated, so helping you to lean out by taking it out makes no sense.........to me any way.

There could have been a million factors, who knows! What's good is that you leaned out, so that's good. It's just that on my programs I will never take out the PWO nutrition, neither PWO1 or PWO2.

Good job however!

~SC~

[Big_Dan]

SWOLECAT! I was talking to yellow man. I want your reply, and YOU weren't being rude, not even yellow for christs man. Chill out.
Now what do you think, what can I improve on my diet?
Howmany cals? Carbs? More protein? Fats ok?
Help me out, you were one of the ones that started the critique!

[litt;edaddy]

bump for swole he has helped me .people just listento him.because what your doing isnt working or you would not be so confused.swole has helped me .if workout is intense pwo A MUST i just learned this through him in the last 2 months!!!!!!!!!!!

[Big_Dan]

I took the first step in this and noted i dont have enough carbs.
So I added 1/2C oats to my protein shake after breakfast (second meal)
Meal 1 post cardio
2 eggwhites, 2 whole
1 C oatmeal with milk and sweetener and cinnamon

Meal 2
One scoop whey 25g P
1/2C oats

Meal 3 Lunch
Tuna with miracle whip non fat

Meal 4
One scoop whey 25gP
1 bottle gatorade/powerade

Meal 5
1 fist size portion protein
1 tbsp olive oil in salad
1tbsp natty pb (this wasnt added, it just was my mistake and didnt type it)

Meal 6
Can of chicken/tuna
Miracle whip. This is a big can of chicken, 400-450cals, 80g P

That makes for 100g carbs on training days and 50g on nontraining days(cardio days). This results to be 1900 cals, and I need a few extra cals.
What can I do.
Perhaps add starches at dinner (the meal after postworkout to further aid in recovery and to refuel muscle glycogen). This would be at 6pm , so no fat gain will result and no worries here.
Im really confused here Swole cat. Help me out bro.

[SwoleCat]

add more a.m., u didn't do anything really neccessary to need more carbs........place more after the workout in the form of two meals.......if u are not losing quick enough, lower the amounts in both of those meals, but not in the other 4. Those 4 aren't limiting fat loss, too much PWO is so find your happy medium.

Then you're done! I have better food choices, but that's nitpicking.

~SC~

[Big_Dan]

Alright bro hows this

Meal 1 post cardio
2 eggwhites, 2 whole
1 C oatmeal with milk and sweetener and cinnamon (its 1c instead of 1/2)

Meal 2
One scoop whey 25g P
1/2C oats

Meal 3 Lunch
Tuna with miracle whip non fat

Meal 4
One scoop whey 25gP
1 bottle gatorade/powerade

Meal 5
1 fist size portion protein
1 tbsp olive oil in salad
1 starch (brown rice yams etc)

Meal 6
Can of chicken/tuna
Miracle whip. This is a big can of chicken, 400-450cals, 80g P
1 tbsp pb or olive oil

NOW: I switched the meal 5 peanut butter to mea 6, and to meal 5, which is the meal after the postworkout meal, i added a starch to further aid in recovery. On non workout days ill take it off.
I also added a whole cup oats in the morning instead of half (had typed it wrong) and left the 1/2 c oats in with the protein shake.
TOTAL CARBS: 75g just from oatmeal+starch at dinner (30g) plus postworkout (50g) 150g about. Non workout days it's 75g carbs because i take away postworkout and post post workout carbs.
Hows this swole? Better? What do you think? Please critique bro!
You know its very appreciated!
Dan

[H BOMB]

this is just my op. since you have prob pulled out half of your hair with this diet of yours already. i say you hit swolecat up with a little donation, and BAM, you get ripped and save what ever hair you have left. shit either way i say you owe him a donation just for whats in this thread

[SwoleCat]

thanks H, but really I am done here already.

Forget that olive oil you have there on your salad. Save that oil for fat in another meal, but not in this pwo meal or any pwo meal......just carbs/pro......

U also don't need any oats in the shake in meal two.........use a tablespoon or so of flaxseed oil.

Meal 3 NON FAT MIRACLE WHIP IS SHIT...........It's all sugar, fake shit......use a tablespoon of real mayo, it's fine...........the other good fats balance out the good/okay fat ratios. Miracle whip sucks!

PWO meals 1 and 2 should be it for the day, no more fats in the evening after two high carb recovery meals.

There, I am totally done.....for reals......it's all there, now be like Nike........


Just do it.

The end.

~SC~

[xenithon]

hi there. the reason i was thinking perhaps why cutting the pw shake helped maybe because i absorbed the protein and simple carbs in the pw shake, but 1-1.5 hours later when i had the meal with low GI carbs and lean meat, eg. chicken with oatmeal or brown rice, perhaps my boody stored those carbs more as fat, whereas now I just get carbs right after working out and the rest of the day pretty much fibrous veges and salads. could that be it??

[SwoleCat]

perhaps the allotments you were having in the two PWO meals were too much............mainly the second one. U could reduce the amounts in the second PWO meal and still retain recovery properties from it without worrying about having any excess stored as fat.

~SC~

[xenithon]

sorry for the continual questions, just trying to 'flatten out' this minor dent

Do you think that its the carbs or protein which are most important PWO?? What I was thinking is trying to, straight after a workout, have a pure whey shake, and a few minutes later (prep time) have the bowl of oats with honey, which together is around 40-50g carbs, half from honey and half from oats. then in my next meal I would continue with the lean protein source and fibrous veges as I normally would throughout the day. the only thing I am not sure of is firstly, how long after I have the whey and oats I would have the meal, and secondly if I would have healthy fats in that meal or just lean protein and veges.

your help is muchly appreciated!!
thanks again!

[yellows2k]

Originally posted by xenithon
sorry for the continual questions, just trying to 'flatten out' this minor dent

Do you think that its the carbs or <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> which are most important PWO?? What I was thinking is trying to, straight after a workout, have a pure whey shake, and a few minutes later (prep time) have the bowl of oats with honey, which together is around 40-50g carbs, half from honey and half from oats. then in my next meal I would continue with the lean <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> source and fibrous veges as I normally would throughout the day. the only thing I am not sure of is firstly, how long after I have the whey and oats I would have the meal, and secondly if I would have healthy fats in that meal or just lean <a href="http://www.allsportsnutrition.com/listproducts.php?style=category&value=PROTEIN" target="_blank">protein</a> and veges.

your help is muchly appreciated!!
thanks again!

Here's what I do. Immediately after workout I have 20g of protein with about 50-60g of carbs. ABout an hour or 2 later, I have a meal high in protein, low in carbs and low in fat.

[abstrack]

this is off the topic but Big Dan ibnyour profile you stated you have under bodybuilding knowledge you have quite a bit of experience , especially dieting<<<< lol

What is all the timing of your mealsbetween each other??
why do you insist on the oats??? like swole said opt for some flax.
does the power aid or the gatorade just do it in for you??<< this is where you really tweeked your diet<<<
how much water are you drinking per day??
I am the same size as you and my cutting diet has way more caloric intake than your so called diet.
you need to take the intiative step and invest in either some real good books on dieting or find your self someone who can perscribe a effective diet and training log for.

[Big_Dan]

I drink 1 G per day. I think its ridiculous to drink more, im in school and i cant go to the bathroom 3 times in a class - thats pathetic.
I insist on the oats for the second meal because ive never seen flax oil in a pill, and plus i need the carb count, and its very inconvenient and nasty to stick a tbsp of oil in a whey shake that tastes bad to start with.
Ive been having good results. I will definetely post my progress.
I know about dieting, dont get me wrong. I know much more than ive shown. Thats how i grew that much . (http://body_insp.tripod.com)
Peace out

[H BOMB]

bro i live in the same state as you and flax in a pill is practically growing on trees. you can get that shit at walgreens,publix,winn dixie. you would not even have to go out of your way to get it, when your buyin your oats zoom on by the vitamin isle and pick it up. it is cheap and worth it.

[Big_Dan]

Thanks!!
My mom does the shopping for us, so how much can she expect this to go for?
Big Dan

[tigress]

I would drop that low fat mayo in a heartbeat. It still looks like your calories are low... and so are your fats. You could add some flax to more meals to get your cals and fats up without hindering fat loss. Also, where are your fibrous veggies?

What are your total numbers after your revisions? I think I have been eating more than you, and I am smaller and female(also cutting).

[H BOMB]

as cheap or cheaper than a bottle of multi vitamins