HELP! For a Cutting Diet ...

[YoungGunsNY]

Age: 19 years old
Weight: 215 lb.
Height: 6'0 in.
Katch-McArdle Formula (assuming BF% is 14% - pics to follow)
BMR: 2476
TDEE (very active): 4271
^I currently am on a 4300 calorie diet to gain lean mass (I started at 210 lb. and had a TDEE of 3700 calories then) and do not do cardio yet. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=426681
When I start my cutting diet (in 4 weeks), I will do cardio for 45 minutes on my 3 days off from weight training at a target heart rate of 135-145 (based on 220 - 19(age) = 201 * .7 = 140.7).

Now, before I start working on formulating a cutting diet, I need help with the guidelines to follow:
Should I base my caloric deficit on:
20% of TDEE, arriving at a daily intake of 3417 calories (4271 - 20%), OR
by subtracting 500 calories daily, arriving at 3771 calories, OR
by subtracting 1000 calories daily, arriving at 3271 calories?

Once that is established, what pro/carb/fat split should I follow for optimal weight loss?
For my current lean mass gain, I am following very close to a 35/35/30 split.
Should I continue with the 35/35/30 split or lower the fat with a 40/40/20 or a 50/30/20 split? BTW, I started my lean mass diet with a 40/40/20 split (but at 4200 calories, 420g protein was advised against numerous times, so I'm guessing the 50/30/20 split would also be out of the question).

I did the math for the 20% TDEE, because that was my initial guideline to follow, but I would appreciate input if anyone feels I should have less calories.
3400 calories @ a 50/30/20 split - 425gPRO/255gCARB/76gFAT.
3400 calories @ a 40/40/20 split - 340gPRO/340gCARB/76gFAT.
3400 calories @ a 35/35/30 split - 298gPRO/298gCARB/113gFAT.

The pictures were taken last night about 4 hours after a cheat meal with dairy(salt-free mozzarella) - I was probably farting in every pose.
Would you agree that my BF% is at 14%? - my current gym does not have calipers, so I can't test for it yet.

[SHANE704]

im no pro or expert but I think your bf is lower that 14%

[Damienm05]

11-12%

[POPS]

11-12%

argeed^^

ask fireguy, he has a good eye for this....

[YoungGunsNY]

wow - definitely an ego boost! I assumed above 12% because I was tested at 12% bodyfat when I was a senior in highschool in the beginning of the wrestling season - although I wasn't dieting, I was getting in INTENSE WORKOUTS (practices & lifting on my own) - I figured I was leaner as a wrestler.. guess not..

So new calculations at 12% ..assuming higher again..
Katch-McArdle Formula @ 12% BF
Weight: 215lb.
LBM: 190lb. (86kg)
BMR: 2228
TDEE: 3843

Back to the original question - which approach should I follow?
Subtracting 20% of TDEE (3074) or subtracting 500/1000 calories from TDEE?
At a 20% deficit of TDEE
3000 calories @ a 40/40/20 split = 300gPRO/300gCARB/67gFAT

[YoungGunsNY]

QUICK QUESTION
I will be starting cardio for the first time when I start this diet and will do cardio on my days off from weight-training (3 days). I plan to do cardio at the same time I would normally workout, and my question is should I continue to have the PWO after cardio? I was thinking of taking the BCAAs before doing cardio, so I'm guessing I'd have to wait about 3 hours after I eat before talking the BCAAs?
What would be the ideal cardio situation, I do cardio at about 6pm? I wouldn't be doing early morning cardio on an empty stomach.

[SHANE704]

the absolute best time for cardio is in the am on an empty stomach, but if you cant do that then after your normal workout is the next best option...ive heard some ppl say they take their pwo before cardio and some do it after cardio. i personally do it after bc i cant drink that much and then go run...

[YoungGunsNY]

I might do cardio after drinking my PWO .. but my major concern was trying to get cardio in on my off days so that I continuously burn calories everyday .. instead of burning up a lot on workout days and nowhere near as much on off days

[RoadToRecovery]

Ok for starters, A good way to determine how many calories to eliminate is to do simple math regarding a lbs of fat.

1lbs of fat = 3500kcal.
2lbs of fat = 7000kcal

Generically, you would subtract 500 calories a day. What I advise is multiplying 4 by your LBM in lbs. But you need to get a good grasp on your bf% as close as you possibly can. Any big chain gym will have a method of measuring body fat.

A few other ways would involve doing it yourself.

Tape measure method (US Navy)
BIA - Bioelectrical Impedance scales
Calipers

[RoadToRecovery]

the absolute best time for cardio is in the am on an empty stomach, but if you cant do that then after your normal workout is the next best option...ive heard some ppl say they take their pwo before cardio and some do it after cardio. i personally do it after bc i cant drink that much and then go run...

Why would you consider this the absolute best time? The best time for what? Burning muscle? If catabolism is your goal then yes first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is the absolute best time.

[RoadToRecovery]

I might do cardio after drinking my PWO .. but my major concern was trying to get cardio in on my off days so that I continuously burn calories everyday .. instead of burning up a lot on workout days and nowhere near as much on off days

You need to look at your meals as fuel. Your post workout meal is not any more important than your PRE workout meal. Burning calories really shouldnt be a concern. You burn almost as many calories (+/- 500) on your off days as you do on your workout days. This is due to your many metabolic processes that take place during recovery.

But to answer your concern, I would advise your PWO meal after cardio.

[YoungGunsNY]

Why would you consider this the absolute best time? The best time for what? Burning muscle? If catabolism is your goal then yes first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is the absolute best time.

Let's say I did follow this - then as soon as I wake up .. I'd have to consume BCAAs before cardio and then eat meal 1 as soon as I get back in my house?

[YoungGunsNY]

Ok for starters, A good way to determine how many calories to eliminate is to do simple math regarding a lbs of fat.

1lbs of fat = 3500kcal.
2lbs of fat = 7000kcal

Generically, you would subtract 500 calories a day. What I advise is multiplying 4 by your LBM in lbs. But you need to get a good grasp on your bf% as close as you possibly can. Any big chain gym will have a method of measuring body fat.

A few other ways would involve doing it yourself.

Tape measure method (US Navy)
BIA - Bioelectrical Impedance scales
Calipers

Definitely following the LBM * 4 method .. a lot more precise than 500/1000.
I'm going to try to find calipers in a gym - mine doesn't have any.

[YoungGunsNY]

You need to look at your meals as fuel. Your post workout meal is not any more important than your PRE workout meal. Burning calories really shouldnt be a concern. You burn almost as many calories (+/- 500) on your off days as you do on your workout days. This is due to your many metabolic processes that take place during recovery.

But to answer your concern, I would advise your PWO meal after cardio.

I'm trying to find the ideal BCAAs/amino acids to supplement for my PWO nutrition, consuming them immeadiately PWO (in the gym) followed by a meal as soon as I get home (30 minutes later) - what should the macros be for that meal? Chicken (8oz)/sweet potato (2cups).. 48g pro/82g carb?

[RoadToRecovery]

Definitely following the LBM * 4 method .. a lot more precise than 500/1000.
I'm going to try to find calipers in a gym - mine doesn't have any.

Sounds Good.

I'm trying to find the ideal BCAAs/amino acids to supplement for my PWO nutrition, consuming them immeadiately PWO (in the gym) followed by a meal as soon as I get home (30 minutes later) - what should the macros be for that meal? Chicken (8oz)/sweet potato (2cups).. 48g pro/82g carb?

Any whey protein has a certain amout of BCAAs. I believe ON whey has 5g of BCAAs (2:1.5:1.5 ratio). You can make your immediate meal a shake. Thats totally acceptable.

[M302_Imola]

Great physique...I wish I looked like you at the age of 19! It is obvious that you diet and train hard and it also doesn't hurt that genetics are on your side!

[YoungGunsNY]

Great physique...I wish I looked like you at the age of 19! It is obvious that you diet and train hard and it also doesn't hurt that genetics are on your side!

Thanks man, always great to get some compliments... I went from watching what I eat to constructing a diet worthy of criticism on here lol - but yeah I'm doing my best - I want to see where my body takes me before getting any ideas of BBing. I will never be satisfied enough - when I see a striation - it makes me happy, but then I think about getting more lol.

[gbrice75]

If catabolism is your goal then yes first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is the absolute best time.

Agreed!

[M302_Imola]

Agreed!

Uneducated! fasted state low intensity cardio is what most advanced body builders use to carve up and trim away the fat!

[RoadToRecovery]

Uneducated! fasted state low intensity cardio is what most advanced body builders use to carve up and trim away the fat!

Here we go again. Id like to think that my company wasnt based solely on myths and misinformation. I really dont feel like arguing this point again... Theres another thread where a link or 2 is provided to counter the fasted theory. But to claim that I am uneducated is a severe shot in the dark.

[gbrice75]

Uneducated! fasted state low intensity cardio is what most advanced body builders use to carve up and trim away the fat!

The point you made minus the insult would have been sufficient...

[M302_Imola]

Here we go again. Id like to think that my company wasnt based solely on myths and misinformation. I really dont feel like arguing this point again... Theres another thread where a link or 2 is provided to counter the fasted theory. But to claim that I am uneducated is a severe shot in the dark.

I remembering reading that thread between you and fireguy and I remember siding w/ fireguy. I think his pics speak for themselves. I think we all came to the conclusion do what works best for you, body building is all trial and error. With that being said I will continue to do fasted state cardio when cutting!

The point you made minus the insult would have been sufficient...

Sorry wasn't trying to be a dick...most have been on my period that day!

[gbrice75]

I remembering reading that thread between you and fireguy and I remember siding w/ fireguy.

Where is this thread, I must've missed it...



Sorry wasn't trying to be a dick...most have been on my period that day!

NP bro, apology accepted, we all have our days!