'soft' muscle - any way to work on this?

**gbrice75** · 06-10-2010, 11:28 AM

I'm hoping some of you know what i'm talking about. I'm referring more to the 'look' rather than feel, but my muscles all look 'soft', flat, smooth, deflated. I'm not sure how else to describe it. I've seen other guys who look like me and then the opposite - good hard solid muscle.

I posted in the diet section because i'm sure this has to do with diet more than anything else. I have often heard milk can make you soft - but I drink about 12oz a day and I really don't think that's what's doing it. Water retention is another one, but I doubt i'm holding THAT much water. Any ideas?

Is there anything I can do to work on this aside from going down the AAS road?

**xxxl83** · 06-10-2010, 01:03 PM

Yes that's a water retention, diet issue.
However and please don't take this personally, from your pic I'd say ur in decent shape and really just need to put on some size.
You can't sculpt a statue out of a pebble so to speak.
Stick to basic compound movements and eat up. Worry about putting on some size.
Imho there is a difference between ripped and just plain old skinny.

Just my .02
xxxl83

**gbrice75** · 06-10-2010, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by xxxl83

Yes that's a water retention, diet issue.
However and please don't take this personally, from your pic I'd say ur in decent shape and really just need to put on some size.
You can't sculpt a statue out of a pebble so to speak.
Stick to basic compound movements and eat up. Worry about putting on some size.
Imho there is a difference between ripped and just plain old skinny.

Just my .02
xxxl83

Thanks for the reply, and no offense taken whatsoever. As for my pic, that was taken right at the end of a keto diet and I was at 177lbs - I hated it! Right now, i'm sitting at around 200lbs but of course put back on some bodyfat. I guess I need to take some updated pics so you all can see what i'm talking about and critique. As you said, I definitely still need to put on some size for sure.

**daftones** · 06-10-2010, 01:39 PM

How's your sodium intake? Try cutting most of your sodium, I find when I eat even average RDA levels of salt I hold an unappealing amount of water, especially around the face.

**kameng_41** · 06-10-2010, 02:16 PM

start slowly by cardio, as ur fitness improves by length of cardio, increase speed and decrease time.
and slowly progress on to sprints...
u will see changes in ur physique,
also work on your traps and delts, it creates an aura of lean and wideness

**YoungGunsNY** · 06-10-2010, 11:08 PM

I'm looking for a 'solid' response - no pun intended ...

as far as the science of the human body ...

because my muscles are starting to get solid, but my brother who can work out for just 1 month after being inactive for 5 months will turn into a statue in 1 month. Is it just genetics? -My muscles are hard but you can sort of push through them - my brothers - you'll break your fingers if you try (exaggerating but he does get rock hard).

**LizzardSecond** · 06-10-2010, 11:39 PM

I am learning that the hard look comes one way and only one way. First you must do a lot of gear to get big. Staying in the 12% range. Dont get too fat but eat. Eat carbs, complex carbs and simple carbs. Eat a ton of protein and some fats too. Keep this up for about 2 years.
I know it sounds crazy to think that you want to eat so much for so long but it will make you grow. I was 165lb just 3.5 years ago. I have a fast metabolism so i had no trouble with not getting fat. I did more than 4000 calories a day at the start and hit about 5000 calories as I grew.
Then I decided I would spend one year at the 9 to 10 range. I lifted heavy, did a lot of gear. Nothing crazy but test at 800 and Deca 500 and a 850mg test cycle. I was incredibly strong but a bit bloated and thick. You can see it in the pic.
Then this spring, Actually about 2 months ago I really started to eat clean and stopped cheating. I also started cardio. I look hard for the first time. I just started a Test, Tren , Masteron cycle. I will post a pic half cycle as always.
Basically the first couple of guys that responded had it right. You have to be big to look hard. Then Lean out and then to look really hard start controlling salts and other bloating foods.

**gbrice75** · 06-11-2010, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by YoungGunsNY

I'm looking for a 'solid' response - no pun intended ...

as far as the science of the human body ...

because my muscles are starting to get solid, but my brother who can work out for just 1 month after being inactive for 5 months will turn into a statue in 1 month. Is it just genetics? -My muscles are hard but you can sort of push through them - my brothers - you'll break your fingers if you try (exaggerating but he does get rock hard).

Look at your own avatar; you look hard to me. Maybe it's because you have low bodyfat, it could be as simple as that. I have alot more so i'm sure that adds to the smooth look. Bodyfat + water retention can really create that soft look I suppose.

**gbrice75** · 06-11-2010, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by LizzardSecond

I am learning that the hard look comes one way and only one way. First you must do a lot of gear to get big. Staying in the 12% range. Dont get too fat but eat. Eat carbs, complex carbs and simple carbs. Eat a ton of protein and some fats too. Keep this up for about 2 years.
I know it sounds crazy to think that you want to eat so much for so long but it will make you grow. I was 165lb just 3.5 years ago. I have a fast metabolism so i had no trouble with not getting fat. I did more than 4000 calories a day at the start and hit about 5000 calories as I grew.
Then I decided I would spend one year at the 9 to 10 range. I lifted heavy, did a lot of gear. Nothing crazy but test at 800 and Deca 500 and a 850mg test cycle. I was incredibly strong but a bit bloated and thick. You can see it in the pic.
Then this spring, Actually about 2 months ago I really started to eat clean and stopped cheating. I also started cardio. I look hard for the first time. I just started a Test, Tren , Masteron cycle. I will post a pic half cycle as always.
Basically the first couple of guys that responded had it right. You have to be big to look hard. Then Lean out and then to look really hard start controlling salts and other bloating foods.

I appreciate your feedback but have to disagree on a couple of points. You don't need to be big to look 'hard'. Granted, you have to have SOME muscle or there's nothing there to even look hard. But look at Younguns avatar above - he's not a beast, not huge, but he's muscular and his body looks hard IMO. He could stand to add another 30lbs of muscle, but he doesn't need to in order to look hard, he already has the look. Maybe it is genetics.

Another point I disagree on is that you need gear to get big; it's been said time and time again that proper diet and training will do more for a person then gear ever could.

I was eating 2000 or fewer calories for almost 1.5 years. I was 255lbs, very overweight and out of shape and needed to cut bodyfat. I did a decent job and am finally trying to add some mass now. The problem is I put on fat SUPER EASILY, so I can't do a typical bulk routine. Right now i'm at 3000 calories/day and that's about as far as I can go without putting on a tremendous amount of bodyfat. I guess it's going to be the slow and steady road for me, but I still think I should be able to get the hard look without necessarily putting on a ton more beef (althouth that IS what I want to do). 200lbs @ 10% bodyfat is my ultimate goal. At the moment, i'm at 200-205lbs and 15% +, probably closer to 20% by now.

***FireGuy*** · 06-11-2010, 07:45 AM

Look Hard=Reduce Bodyfat. Ever see a guy with single digit bodyfat holding water? He will still look very hard. Find a guy with 15% bodyfat and give him a diuretic and cut his water, guess what, he will still look soft.

**gbrice75** · 06-11-2010, 08:21 AM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Look Hard=Reduce Bodyfat. Ever see a guy with single digit bodyfat holding water? He will still look very hard. Find a guy with 15% bodyfat and give him a diuretic and cut his water, guess what, he will still look soft.

Makes perfect sense FG, and of course it's the bodyfat, as always, that plagues me. At least I can say that i've gone from complaining about looking fat to complaining about 'not looking good enough' - that's still a step in the right direction.

I have yet to find my 'sweet spot' when it comes to reducing bodyfat. After losing the bulk of my weight (via starvation basically), I think I all but shut down my metabolism and my body decided to hold on to that precious bodyfat. I then made the mistake of reducing calories even further, obviously not helping the situation.

I'm currently in the process of playing with 3000 calories - more of a body recomp than a bulk. I'm playing with macro combos, meal timing, etc. In the meantime i'm hoping that i'm revving up my metabolism again to where I will start burning bodyfat, without dropping to 1400 - 1800 calories as I did in the past.

**wanabeMASSIVE!** · 06-11-2010, 08:58 AM

Take t3 to speed up metabolism.

**danielli** · 06-11-2010, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by wanabeMASSIVE!

Take t3 to speed up metabolism.

I'm curious...what happens when you stop taking it?

**gbrice75** · 06-11-2010, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by wanabeMASSIVE!

Take t3 to speed up metabolism.

Yea, i'm thinking about getting clen and T3 from AR-R to help with this process.

**green22** · 06-11-2010, 10:44 AM

I agree with fireguy, low bodyfat is key. Also keep in mind that the more muscle you got the faster your metabalisim will/should be. Looking at that pick in your avvy you need WAY more muscle. also thinking that gear is not better than solid diet and training.

If you got all 3 spot on its the differance between night and day.

**YoungGunsNY** · 06-11-2010, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Yea, i'm thinking about getting clen and T3 from AR-R to help with this process.

Ah, watch out - I remember seeing somewhere that AR-R products are garbage... they just sponsor the forums because a sponsor was needed.

**gbrice75** · 06-11-2010, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by green22

Looking at that pick in your avvy you need WAY more muscle.

I know, you're right. In my defense, that pic was taken after running a keto diet - I was 177lbs and hated that look. I'm sitting at around 200lbs now and did put on some muscle (not much), but of course due to my horrible genetics I also put on more bodyfat which I simply cannot afford.