Support my cutting goal Please.

**First6** · 11-06-2010, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by Twist

Sick bro. Whats your equipment list again?

You have a flat bar and a bench press now right? Can you do squats?

Oh yeah! I have a good bit of stuff now. It's all ready to go!
--Full dumbell set up to 85lbs
--A place to do pullups
--A bench with leg attachment and preacher pad attachment. The uprights also reverse and extend up to hold the bar for squats.
--EZ curl bar with 150lbs of plates
--45lb Olympic straight bar with 255lbs of plates

--I'm in the process of looking into getting a weight vest to wear during my cardio but those things are expensive! So I dunno.

Yeah I can do squats now. BUT I will have to start slow with them. I have literally NEVER done a squat in my life. I will have to look up some videos to get the proper technique.

**First6** · 11-06-2010, 06:44 AM

Weigh in Update:

Wow. Interesting. Nothing changed from last week.
Weight: 162
BF: 13.1 (on the omron) have not checked the calipers yet.

**First6** · 11-06-2010, 07:41 AM

calipers are saying 15% (same or very slightly lower than last week)
**I am still learning with the calipers. I may not be doing it correctly. Not sure.

**tbody66** · 11-06-2010, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by First6

all right all right! There! Now leave me alone! LOL
Yours all still look better though!

Nice shot, good Avy!

**Twist** · 11-06-2010, 01:35 PM

I am sure that things changed, just not enough for that thing to pick up. We are about to change things up anyway. I'll write up your workout in a second. First answer these questions:
1. how many days a week are you going to workout with weights?
2. How many days per week are you going to do cardio? (everyday lol)
3. Is cardio pre or post workout and what what times?
4. Is there any specific bodypart you want to work on the most?

ps. You can't caliper yourself so no way your reading is accurate.

**First6** · 11-06-2010, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Twist

I am sure that things changed, just not enough for that thing to pick up. We are about to change things up anyway. I'll write up your workout in a second. First answer these questions:
1. how many days a week are you going to workout with weights?
I'm flexible. Tell me what you recommend.
2. How many days per week are you going to do cardio? (everyday lol)
Lol yeah prob every day. No joke.
3. Is cardio pre or post workout and what what times?
I always do 40 minutes of fasted cardio right out of bed in the am. Most days I do an hour at lunchtime BUT it is getting cold out now so not sure what will happen with that. I also do an hour in the evening about 4 or so days a week. I am open to change.
4. Is there any specific bodypart you want to work on the most?
Nope not really. I need to start growing and see where I am lacking the most. For now let's just keep it balanced.

I am not really sure how I want to set up the new routine. It probably depends on how many days a week I will weight train. I will do SOMETHING every morning. Up to you if that is cardio or weights but I will not have time for both cardio AND weights in the mornings. On days I do both I will have to do one in the am and one in the pm. Prob best to do weights in the am. Unless the fasted cardio is more important right now.

ps. You can't caliper yourself so no way your reading is accurate.
Oh! Didn't know that. Okay. I will have to get my wife to do it.

Sorry I was so long getting back to you here. I was out blowing leaves ALL day.

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-06-2010, 08:50 PM

You've made some great progress my friend. In case anyone cares, one of the biggest reasons is your consistent 40 minutes of fasted cardio. That is one of the quickest ways to drop weight. Hands down.

Many just dont have the motivation. Props.

**gbrice75** · 11-06-2010, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON

You've made some great progress my friend. In case anyone cares, one of the biggest reasons is your consistent 40 minutes of fasted cardio. That is one of the quickest ways to drop weight. Hands down.

Many just dont have the motivation. Props.

Props First!

PS - i'm doing a fvcking hour of fasted 5x a week - I better see some results based on what you said above!

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-06-2010, 08:56 PM

Actually, twist is incorrect ( I find myself saying that often).

You most certainly CAN 3 point test yourself which is pretty damn close to the more accurate 7 PT.

Until you get below 10%, the three pointer is all you need.

**First6** · 11-06-2010, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON

You've made some great progress my friend. In case anyone cares, one of the biggest reasons is your consistent 40 minutes of fasted cardio. That is one of the quickest ways to drop weight. Hands down.

Many just dont have the motivation. Props.

Thanks! So the fasted cardio is the best thing I am doing. What is the worst thing? Do you see anything that makes you cringe?

**First6** · 11-06-2010, 09:29 PM

Thanks for the props guys. I appreciate it. Seems like twist is ready to change things up a little. I am anxious for it. Seems like my body has slowed in it's response to what I am doing to it. Should be good things happening in the near future!

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-06-2010, 09:42 PM

Where are you?

You cannot afford to give up cardio because it's getting cold.

Thinking you're gonna drop cardio due to the weather makes me cringe.

You might have to sack up and get a gym membership for the winter.

I know you can afford it. Just find other costs to cut down. Eat more eggs. Eat canned tuna. Drop cable. Switch your cell phone package. Many gyms nowadays are less than $20 a month. Get a paper route. Go flip burgers at night. Something to bring in a few bucks.

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-06-2010, 09:46 PM

Gb. Your issue isn't the cardio, it's the slips you have in your diet every few days. Once you get control over your mind, you'll see big progress. Not until then.

You've made some nice strides. This is where the rubber meets the road and you need to buckle down.

**First6** · 11-06-2010, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON

Where are you?

You cannot afford to give up cardio because it's getting cold.

Thinking you're gonna drop cardio due to the weather makes me cringe.

You might have to sack up and get a gym membership for the winter.

I know you can afford it. Just find other costs to cut down. Eat more eggs. Eat canned tuna. Drop cable. Switch your cell phone package. Many gyms nowadays are less than $20 a month. Get a paper route. Go flip burgers at night. Something to bring in a few bucks.

Lol. I think you misunderstand. I am not giving up cardio. Not a chance of that. All my am cardio and evening cardio is indoors. Only my mid day cardio which is just a 3.5 mile fast walk. Is out door. That will take a hit as it gets colder. I will have to find something else to do.

**Twist** · 11-06-2010, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON

Actually, twist is incorrect ( I find myself saying that often).

You most certainly CAN 3 point test yourself which is pretty damn close to the more accurate 7 PT. and a bioelectrical impedence test is close to a 3 point test, and a guess is pretty close to all of them. But since he bought the calipers/owns a scale/has a mirror and a camera, why not use it correctly?

Until you get below 10%, the three pointer is all you need. When you get below 10% you don't NEED any calipers, and unless you are competeing you don't even NEED to know your bf at all. You never NEED it at all.

First of all you are a dick. Just because your views are different than mine does not make me (or you for that matter) wrong. I was completely unaware that people use 3 point tests still. I, and everyone I know/have ever heard of, uses a 9 point test. Since you cannot 9 point test yourself my comment is completely warranted. If you want to recommend using 3 point tests, no scale, and no carbs except your one oats meal, be my guest. But don't try to slam me for being more calculated and thorough. You use a shitload of steroids , have great genetics, and a personal dietician. I think the mirror has gotten to your head. Not using resources readily available is an amateur mistake.

**First6** · 11-06-2010, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by Twist

First of all you are a dick. Just because your views are different than mine does not make me (or you for that matter) wrong. I was completely unaware that people use 3 point tests still. I, and everyone I know/have ever heard of, uses a 9 point test. Since you cannot 9 point test yourself my comment is completely warranted. If you want to recommend using 3 point tests, no scale, and no carbs except your one oats meal, be my guest. But don't try to slam me for being more calculated and thorough. You use a shitload of steroids, have great genetics, and a personal dietician. I think the mirror has gotten to your head. Not using resources readily available is an amateur mistake.

I gotta agree with Twist here. I am very new to this game. I want to and feel I need to use all the resources I have at my disposal. I will need to use them at least until I have enough experience to get by without them. If I am not using them right now I have no way of knowing how I am doing. I do not have the body (yet) to just go by the mirror. If I did that I would go for a few weeks in the wrong direction before I saw it in the mirror.

**gbrice75** · 11-07-2010, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON

Gb. Your issue isn't the cardio, it's the slips you have in your diet every few days. Once you get control over your mind, you'll see big progress. Not until then.

You've made some nice strides. This is where the rubber meets the road and you need to buckle down.

I know it. I've had my best week in a long time, and don't feel like slowing down now. Looking forward to breaking new ground.

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-07-2010, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Twist

First of all you are a dick. Just because your views are different than mine does not make me (or you for that matter) wrong. I was completely unaware that people use 3 point tests still. I, and everyone I know/have ever heard of, uses a 9 point test. Since you cannot 9 point test yourself my comment is completely warranted. If you want to recommend using 3 point tests, no scale, and no carbs except your one oats meal, be my guest. But don't try to slam me for being more calculated and thorough. You use a shitload of steroids, have great genetics, and a personal dietician. I think the mirror has gotten to your head. Not using resources readily available is an amateur mistake.

LOL....Oh Twisty Twisty - actually your tried and true is in question and geared more toward the "biggest loser" candidate. I can show you the PMs people questioning you (almost) every 2-3 days

I never got personal. You have no idea how much gear I use and frankly it's extremely mild. That;s why I'm not on another level.

You admittedly dont train, havent train, and are preaching from a freakin book. I am living what these dudes are trying to go through....experience wil blow science out of the water everytime.

And you are way off line. Telling him he can't test is a complete bshit remark. If you are going to speak from a book, be accurate, Tiny.

**tbody66** · 11-07-2010, 07:50 AM

Twist and LB, can we please delete some like the last several posts and start over on a mutual respect/differing view ground? I love and respect you both, but I've been around this long enough to sort through the information presented and make intelligent decisions from personal experience and not let the messenger or the delivery style kill my reception of it, not everyone here has that knowledge base, or ability, just saying.

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-07-2010, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by First6

I gotta agree with Twist here. I am very new to this game. I want to and feel I need to use all the resources I have at my disposal. I will need to use them at least until I have enough experience to get by without them. If I am not using them right now I have no way of knowing how I am doing. I do not have the body (yet) to just go by the mirror. If I did that I would go for a few weeks in the wrong direction before I saw it in the mirror.

Are you serious? You're brainwashed into thinking you are nothing. Look at where you've come. The mirror from 20% to 10% will, tell you everything there is to know. Your clothes will speak the other....it's from 10% to 5% where you need alternative measures.

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-07-2010, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

I know it. I've had my best week in a long time, and don't feel like slowing down now. Looking forward to breaking new ground.

You'll get there....

**gbrice75** · 11-07-2010, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by tbody66

Twist and LB, can we please delete some like the last several posts and start over on a mutual respect/differing view ground? I love and respect you both, but I've been around this long enough to sort through the information presented and make intelligent decisions from personal experience and not let the messenger or the delivery style kill my reception of it, not everyone here has that knowledge base, or ability, just saying.

I agree 100%. Please guys, it doesn't have to go down this road. You have myself, Tbody, and First6 who are all inter-twined with both of you. We're now feeling awkward because of this. We all started as friends, can't we remain that way? Friends can have differing opinions, let's debate it and learn from eachother, not flame.

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-07-2010, 08:03 AM

LOl.... I said it on another thread. As a person, I have no issues with Twisty (until he called me a dick).....we have different views. His teaching is from science, mine is through actual experience. Incorporate the two and maybe you have a 'nice place'...

**tbody66** · 11-07-2010, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON

LOl.... I said it on another thread. As a person, I have no issues with Twisty (until he called me a dick).....we have different views. His teaching is from science, mine is through actual experience. Incorporate the two and maybe you have a 'nice place'...

I agree, a nice place by incorporating the two. You are on a very restricted diet and I know my diet, not as restrictive as yours, makes me grouchy and short with loved ones, could you please give twist a hug and a kiss and make nice? That's an order little mister!

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-07-2010, 09:57 AM

Actually, quite the contrairy. I'm eating like a freaking horse and feeling bloated and fat is farrrrr worse for me than dieting. Dieting, I just find that it's hard to focus on one thing (girls, work, family) for too long and all I want to do is sleep.

Having someone breathing down your neck, telling you that you look skinny everytime we meet while you are on a 6,000+ calorie diet and feeling like a beached whale makes me crazy. Food is no longer enjoyable.

Imagine having 7-8 meals a day all around 700-800 calories and whatever you don't finish you have to blend and drink....it sucks. Right now, dieting would be a dream. But I know I need to do this first.

**First6** · 11-07-2010, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON

Actually, quite the contrairy. I'm eating like a freaking horse and feeling bloated and fat is farrrrr worse for me than dieting. Dieting, I just find that it's hard to focus on one thing (girls, work, family) for too long and all I want to do is sleep.

Having someone breathing down your neck, telling you that you look skinny everytime we meet while you are on a 6,000+ calorie diet and feeling like a beached whale makes me crazy. Food is no longer enjoyable.

Imagine having 7-8 meals a day all around 700-800 calories and whatever you don't finish you have to blend and drink....it sucks. Right now, dieting would be a dream. But I know I need to do this first.

That's no joke! That would be hard to do day after day. I LOVE food and for the enjoyment to be taken out of it like that would def fall into the category ot things that suck!

**LBSOMEIRON** · 11-07-2010, 11:31 AM

But I was wrong for bringing you into this bro and for that I apologize.

**First6** · 11-07-2010, 11:34 AM

SOS.....SOS......SOS

I need some help.
I took a good look at myself this morning and I don't like what I am seeing. No not a look in the mirror (but that to lol). A real look at my progress lately.

Look back at my first post on this thread. I got down to about 13 or so % once or twice and never got any further. Now that was on the omron so I was prob more like 15-16%. Point being it is about where I am now (maybe just slightly higher than where I am now). I am having some sort of hard time with this. I am mentally not letting myself get down past that 15% mark. With a good hard look I have realized that I have really slacked off after I hit 15%. Most of my 1 hour cardio sessions have fallen off to about 40 minutes or so. I am doing little cheats here and there on my diet that prob add up to some real BS by the end of the day/week. I am REALLY cut back on my weights. I am allowing all kinds of excuses to allow myself to do this. This is not the new me! this is the old me! WTF?? What am I doing? I realized (again) today that this goal of getting lean is HUGE to me. I really really want to do it. I have got to find myself again and get back into full swing. I am allowing myself to feel lately like it is a lost cause even though I know it is FAR from that. I can so do this. I know it. You all know it.
What do you guys do when you go through this kind of spell? What gets you back up to full speed?

Thanks guys. Just needed to vent and kind of publically admit my mistakes and re-dedicate myself to this.

**gbrice75** · 11-07-2010, 12:32 PM

Dude, I will be your biggest voice of reason on this topic, simply because i'm more fvcked in the head with this stuff then any of the guys helping us - I don't think they will argue that. I know how you're feeling right now because I go through it pretty often. It's irrational for the most part, but seems very real to you at the moment. Do you feel like the world is ending? Do you feel like you're losing control of your situation? YOU'RE NOT. You're just in a bad frame of mind right now and it'll pass.

Look at my post from a few days ago where I was glum and threatening to abandon my own thread. Look at my post the very next day and any posts since. Call it bi-polar, who knows. The point is I was on one of these trips that day and should have known better.

We will have our good days, bad days, great days, and horrible days. You need to stop focusing on percentage this, BF that, etc. and just keep doing what you already know is right. Look in the mirror and forget the numbers. I have to practice this too.

I also have not allowed myself to get past a certain bodyfat percentage, and it occured to me that this is HUGE too. I don't know what it's like to be lean and trying to build muscle. Twist tells me that the body will allocate things in different ways when you're at a low bodyfat, and LB has promised that maintaining 10% is a million times easier then getting there - SO - we have nothing but good things to look forward to brotha. Get your head outta your ass and think positive!

**First6** · 11-07-2010, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by LBSOMEIRON

But I was wrong for bringing you into this bro and for that I apologize.

Were you talking to me here?
No need to apologize to me. I appreciate the dif views. I was just confused for a minute as to if your comments were intended for help to me or just focused on apposing twist.
I appreciate your help and encouragement and I have a great deal of respect for your experience. I just wish you and twist didn't have to go at each other all the time. It just confuses the crap out of me.
I personally think I would make great progress doing it your way. I really do. That being said. I have been making great progress doing it Twist's way to. ( except lately when I started getting in my own way)
I don't think either one of you are Wrong.

**tbody66** · 11-07-2010, 12:55 PM

All right, sounds like we've righted the ship. First6, you pointed out all of your own shortcoming in your rant, so fix them and you'll be fine again. I agree about GB's personal assessment of his mental state in regards to our perception of him being atop the leader boards of mental bi-polarism.

**Twist** · 11-07-2010, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by First6

SOS.....SOS......SOS

I need some help.
I took a good look at myself this morning and I don't like what I am seeing. No not a look in the mirror (but that to lol). A real look at my progress lately.

Look back at my first post on this thread. I got down to about 13 or so % once or twice and never got any further. Now that was on the omron so I was prob more like 15-16%. Point being it is about where I am now (maybe just slightly higher than where I am now). I am having some sort of hard time with this. I am mentally not letting myself get down past that 15% mark. With a good hard look I have realized that I have really slacked off after I hit 15%. Most of my 1 hour cardio sessions have fallen off to about 40 minutes or so. I am doing little cheats here and there on my diet that prob add up to some real BS by the end of the day/week. I am REALLY cut back on my weights. I am allowing all kinds of excuses to allow myself to do this. This is not the new me! this is the old me! WTF?? What am I doing? I realized (again) today that this goal of getting lean is HUGE to me. I really really want to do it. I have got to find myself again and get back into full swing. I am allowing myself to feel lately like it is a lost cause even though I know it is FAR from that. I can so do this. I know it. You all know it.
What do you guys do when you go through this kind of spell? What gets you back up to full speed?

Thanks guys. Just needed to vent and kind of publically admit my mistakes and re-dedicate myself to this.

You have realized your mistake and this is the best thing you can do. Catch your mistakes and fix them. You have been working hard and you have a great deal of dedication to this matter. You will for sure get there. Just stay positive and stick to the program.

**First6** · 11-07-2010, 06:19 PM

Thanks for the encouragement guys.
No more slacking off. I think I will be okay once I see myself losing fat again. I just need that confidence boost.

**First6** · 11-07-2010, 06:22 PM

Twist- I sat down and wanted to write up a workout plan but I was looking at it and realized I have no idea how. I don't know how many days I should train, how much rest between sets, how much rest between days, etc.

You still willin to write something up for me?

**Twist** · 11-07-2010, 06:43 PM

Yeah no problem. You don't need anything special IMO. Just any regular split will be fine.
Go with a 5 day split, cardio all 7 days if you want.

Day 1 Legs
Lunges
3 sets, 16 total steps - 8 with each foot
Squats
4 sets, 8-12 reps
Insert any other leg exercise you can do here. Leg curls or extension, straight leg deadlift, etc

Day 2 Shoulders
Upright Row
4 sets, 12-16 reps
Arnold Press alternate Standing Military Press with Olympic Bar weekly
3 sets 8-12 reps
Lateral Raise
2 sets 8-12 reps, 1 drop set

Day 3 Cardio only

Day 4 Back
Deadlift
4 sets 6-10 for two, 8-12 for the other 2 sets, 1 good warmup
Rows with Olympic Bar
4 sets 6-10 reps (lean forward and stretch through your shoulder blades to big squeeze and contraction in lats and upper back)
Pull ups
3 sets as many as you can do, if you can do 12, add weight

Day 5 Chest (you should use dumbbells as much as possible)
Flat bench
3 sets 6-8 reps
Decline Press with barbell or DB (can you do this?)
3 sets 8-12, big squeeze

Day 6 Arms
Standing curls
4 sets 8-12 reps
flat bar curls
3 sets 8-12

Dips (hands on bench is what you do right?)
4 sets 8-12
Skullcrushers
3 sets 8-12
DB Overhead press
3 sets 8-12

Day 7 cardio

**First6** · 11-07-2010, 06:53 PM

Okay thank you!
Yeah there is nothing there that I can not do.

Questions:
1) 30-45 seconds between sets?
2) What is our goal here? Beginning to bulk? Should I be going all out? Going to failure etc?
3) No diet changes right?

**Twist** · 11-07-2010, 08:58 PM

If you can do 2 more reps than the routine says, up the weight. Goal here is pretty much to start getting the muscle ready for weight gain. Really want to implement some structure in a routine. Get you ready for whats ahead. 30 seconds for small bodyparts, 1minute for big.
No diet changes until I see pics

**First6** · 11-07-2010, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Twist

If you can do 2 more reps than the routine says, up the weight. Goal here is pretty much to start getting the muscle ready for weight gain. Really want to implement some structure in a routine. Get you ready for whats ahead. 30 seconds for small bodyparts, 1minute for big.
No diet changes until I see pics

Okay. All sounds good.

My day 1 will be Tuesdays as I will need to have Monday and Thursday be my cardio only days due to other obligations.
I will continue my fasted cardio every morning and will still do some type of cardio at lunch as always. My weights will be done in the evenings.
This being said. I have a diet question.
My post workout meal will be roughly 2-3 hours before my bedtime shake and bed. In your opinion what would be a perfect pre and post workout meal for me. I want to restructure my diet around those 2 meals. Not changing my daily macros. I just want those two meals to be perfect for the workout I will be doing.
Thanks!

**tbody66** · 11-07-2010, 11:27 PM

Sounds like you have a great plan of attack for the next phase of your program. Keep it up and keep us posted.

**Twist** · 11-08-2010, 12:24 AM

I like my pre and pwo meals to be carb rich (moreso than others I guess). But overall I wouldn't heavily weight it too much. I mean you don't want 60% of your cals to come from one or two meals. Nice and spread out, let the cardio and deficit do the work. You can shift some of your bedtime carbs to those meals, or make the 25g carbs I told you to add as pwo.

Note this is pre and post weight training. Cardio should be treated as no different than other times during the day. If anything, you don't want a meal before. But just eat meals as normal, and if cardio falls close, o well