Gonna start with diet modifications...

[gymbud]

Hi guys,

New to all of this but love this place so far - wish there was more time in the day to read stuff on here.

So, being a newbie, never run a cycle before. Obviously diet and exercise program is the key to establish first. (stats reminder: 5'10", 200lbs, ~20% - need to get measured again)

I figured as a start I'm going to monitor my current caloric intake by doing a food log a la iPhone-style. Get an idea of what my weak spots are and where to adjust.

Ultimate goal here is to bulk - I definitely need to get a bit leaner in the process though. At this point though, I'd have to say I probably don't wont to go lower than 15% BF, more a personal preference thing -- I'd rather be a bit more bulky than super lean.

Anyhow, will start tomorrow with just keeping an eye on what I eat. I'll let you guys know how things go.

[gbrice75]

Hi guys,

New to all of this but love this place so far - wish there was more time in the day to read stuff on here.

So, being a newbie, never run a cycle before. Obviously diet and exercise program is the key to establish first. (stats reminder: 5'10", 200lbs, ~20% - need to get measured again)

I figured as a start I'm going to monitor my current caloric intake by doing a food log a la iPhone-style. Get an idea of what my weak spots are and where to adjust.

Ultimate goal here is to bulk - I definitely need to get a bit leaner in the process though. At this point though, I'd have to say I probably don't wont to go lower than 15% BF, more a personal preference thing -- I'd rather be a bit more bulky than super lean.

Anyhow, will start tomorrow with just keeping an eye on what I eat. I'll let you guys know how things go.

Hey bro, you're in a good place as you'll get all the support you need. However, I don't want you to get off on the wrong foot. What you said above (in bold) is a complete contradiction, and impossible. You can do both, but not at the exact same time. You need to choose what's more important to you right now, and focus on that. At 20% bodyfat, I wouldn't even be breathing the word bulk. I'd want to get leaner then 15%, but that's your preference. Get to 15% and then start a very clean bulk; hopefully you'll be able to put on some good mass without getting back up to 20%. If you start at 20%, you're going to look like shit, I can promise you that. Just my .02

[gymbud]

Thanks for joining in gb! Saw some of your awesome posts allover

I should've been more clear with that statement -- what I meant was ultimately I need to put on much more muscle, but I do need to lean up before. So I agree with you, can't bulk while trying to burn off the fat.

I thought I'd start off with giving people a few pics -- feel free to comment. Just took these this morning. Gives an idea of where I'm starting from. I have a long way to go before I'll be where I want to.

[gbrice75]

Thanks for clarifying! And yes, you're going in the right direction IMO. Don't make the mistakes I made (continue to make?) and let your mind fvck with you. When you start leaning out, you'll realize more and more that it was mostly fat and very little muscle. You're going to feel scrawny and look weak. Just keep your eye on the prize, and the fact that when you DO switch to adding mass, you'll be able to see progress each and every week because the bodyfat will be low enough to do so.

I bounced between cutting and bulking and in the end, basically went nowhere because I never allowed enough time for either to happen. Give your cut at LEAST 3 months before you even consider chaning this up. Get your bodyfat checked again (but go by the mirror as well) and readjust as needed. We'll be here to watch your progress!

[gymbud]

Thank you for the words of wisdom and the encouragement gbrice75. What you're saying is exactly the kind of fear I have about cutting. But I'm willing to give it a try.

An update for food logging of today: in total I had 2360 cal, 51g fat, 229g carbs, 235g protein (20:39:41). Drank 7 glasses of water so far (prob have another before bed). Overall, I thought it was going to be worse.

Things I need to work on:
- cut out more fat. I'm going to switch from 1% to skim milk as I'm not willing to give it up completely.
- increase protein ratio a bit?
- avoid sodium even more. I do a decent job but I noticed a few places where I can improve.

My BMR should be ~2000, with wt maintenance calories prob b/w 3100 and 3400. So I could reduce caloric intake overall also. Thoughts?

[gbrice75]

Thank you for the words of wisdom and the encouragement gbrice75. What you're saying is exactly the kind of fear I have about cutting. But I'm willing to give it a try.

An update for food logging of today: in total I had 2360 cal, 51g fat, 229g carbs, 235g protein (20:39:41). Drank 7 glasses of water so far (prob have another before bed). Overall, I thought it was going to be worse.

Things I need to work on:
- cut out more fat. I'm going to switch from 1% to skim milk as I'm not willing to give it up completely.
- increase protein ratio a bit?
- avoid sodium even more. I do a decent job but I noticed a few places where I can improve.

My BMR should be ~2000, with wt maintenance calories prob b/w 3100 and 3400. So I could reduce caloric intake overall also. Thoughts?

On a strict cut, i'd suggest cutting milk out all together. If for some reason you can't, definitely go with skim. As for ratios, i'd go with a 45/40/15 (P/C/F) for starters.

You have to be very confident that you have your numbers right when calculating how many calories you need. I'm willing to bet your TDEE is overestimated (they often are, even the charts will sometimes tell you that) and you're somewhere in the mid 2000's. If I were you, i'd start off at around 2200 calories/day and see how that goes for a couple of weeks. If you're losing more then 1-2lbs a week, add 100 calories. If you're not losing at all, drop back 100. Keep making these adjustments until you find your sweet spot. It's time consuming, and in that time you may not progress - but once you find it, it'll be much easier from there.

And yes, keep sodium as low as possible.

[gymbud]

So it's been about a week now (and probably about 3 weeks overall that I've been watching my diet better). I've definitely lost a couple pounds - will measure my weight tonight at the gym as their scale is more consistent than mine. hehe.. I have not yet done the BF measurement, but will try to get on that. GB, do you think its worthwhile to take pics every week or do u think more realistic to give it 2 weeks at a time?

[gbrice75]

I'd do pics every 2 weeks. 1 week isn't enough time to really see visible changes IMO, and you may wind up getting discouraged.

[gymbud]

So short update: Body weight was 196lbs yesterday. When I started about 4 weeks ago it was 204lbs, so I've def. lost. Bad news: gym scale says I have 23% BF. It seems a bit high to me, but I dont know how accurate the scale-based BF measurements are. Anyhow, I'm pretty sure that I've lost fat (and not all muscle!) when I look in the mirror. So either way, I think I'm on the right track but have a ways to go. I'll aim to post pics on Tuesday (~2weeks from last ones).

[gbrice75]

Go by the mirror before the scale any day of the week bro.

Congrats on the loss - keep it up!

[gymbud]

OK. here are some updated pics.. the weight hasn't changed much the last week (~195lbs) but I feel a bit leaner? I think some improvement has been made although not drastically.

I'll let you guys judge for yourself. Sorry for the odd camera angles, I really do need a tripod or someone to take these.

[gbrice75]

It's tough to tell because the angles are different, but your arms look bigger, which probably means you've lost some fat on them making them appear bigger (more defined). How long have you been running your plan for now?

[Sicko]

keep it up OP,, looks like you were blessed with some descent wheels, jealous.
Will be checkin in to see how you are progresing.

[gymbud]

Gb: Yeah, agreed. need to figure something out about the bloody angles for next time. it's been almost 4 weeks since the previous pics and about 5-6 weeks total ive been trying to cut. cardio has been great, i've been doing at least 30min once a day on off days, and often twice or total of 1 hr if i have the time. the only other thing that may help is if i change the exercises. right now im in the middle of a program that's part of the men's health "book of muscle" -- i partly started it to change things up, but also to learn different exercises and new ones that i can do to build up the repertoire. however, its not specifically designed for cutting.. so its not something like 10x10 or high total reps. i think for now i should stick to what im doing..but advice is always welcome.

sicko: thanks bud! appreciate it. that's one part of my body that i'm proud of. i can easily push 450lbs for 8 reps. but, i dont wanna turn into one of those guys u see at the gym that have huge upper bodies and nothing for legs..so i keep working them.

[Stephen73ta]

IMO the scale don't mean shit!

[gbrice75]

IMO the scale don't mean shit!

It becomes more useful with longer term goals, i.e once a month or more. Weighing in once a week is pretty useless, forget every day.

That said, I still personally like to use it, probably more familiarity then anything else.

[tbody66]

Gb: Yeah, agreed. need to figure something out about the bloody angles for next time. it's been almost 4 weeks since the previous pics and about 5-6 weeks total ive been trying to cut. cardio has been great, i've been doing at least 30min once a day on off days, and often twice or total of 1 hr if i have the time. the only other thing that may help is if i change the exercises. right now im in the middle of a program that's part of the men's health "book of muscle" -- i partly started it to change things up, but also to learn different exercises and new ones that i can do to build up the repertoire. however, its not specifically designed for cutting.. so its not something like 10x10 or high total reps. i think for now i should stick to what im doing..but advice is always welcome.

sicko: thanks bud! appreciate it. that's one part of my body that i'm proud of. i can easily push 450lbs for 8 reps. but, i dont wanna turn into one of those guys u see at the gym that have huge upper bodies and nothing for legs..so i keep working them.

450lb full squats for 8 reps? I'd like to see your workout specifically spelled out, every exercise, every set, every rep. From the first pics to the second set there is progress, but I think you should have been able to add more thickness than you have, even on a cut. I'm always a fan of adding muscle to burn fat.

[gymbud]

Sorry I wasn't clear. 450 lbs on leg press. Def not squats. Will post workout but can't right now.

[gymbud]

I apologize -- it's been hectic here and I haven't had time to browse the forums nevermind post.

OK.. so I'm doing the "Beginner Program" at the moment in that book.. so i realize the exercises are probably not working the muscles enough..but for what it's worth, here is the current workout (it changes slightly every 3 weeks..and then a major change every 6 weeks, approx.):

All exercises are preceded by 1 warmup set, except for abs. lift weights 3 times a week, cardio all other days.

Workout A:
Barbel bench press 3 sets
Cable row 3 sets
Dumbbell bench press incline 1 set
Dumbbell one arm row 1 set
Bench dip 1 set
Hammer curl 1 set
Abs: 4 exercises, 2 sets ea.

B:
Barbell squat 3 sets
Deadlift 3 sets
Static lunge 1 set
Good morning 1 set
Calf-raise 1 set
Shrugs 1 set
Abs: 4ex, 2 sets ea.

C:
Lat pull down 3 sets
Shoulder press 3 sets
Dumbbell lying pullover 1 set
Dumbbell lat raise 1 set
Ezbar Bicep curl 1 set
Tricep pushdown 1 set
Abs: 4ex 2sets ea

BTW, this is the last 6 weeks of the beginner part... so the above exercises are essentially what ill be doing till the end.. the "intermediate" section is probably more up my alley...

feel free to critique.