Help! Wanting to start this new diet.

[jimmy79]

Here goes my new diet I'd like to follow. Maby I can get some comments before I start working out all the calorie values to adjust the portions.

Age: 31
Weight: 70kg (154 pounds)
Height: 1.72m (5 ft 7)
BF: 20%


05:00 Omega-3 caps + 1000mg Vitamin C + Coffee.
05:15 Meal replacement Shake with whole milk 250ml.

05:30 60 minutes cardio.

06:45 Meal replacement Shake with whole milk 250ml.
08:00 BREAKFAST: (3 Eggs omelet mixed with vegies + 1/2 cup oats) OR (Steak + 1 cup all-bran-flakes serial + banana) + Coffee.
11:00 Cottage cheese + Avo + apple
14:00 Tuna + Tomoto + 10 olives + Salad & Cheese.
15:15 BCAA mixed with water.

15:30 60 minutes Weight Lifting

16:30 Banana + Whey
17:00 Vitamin B complex. + Coffee.
19:00 Beef mince + Brocoli + mixed veggies + Coffee.
21:00 Calcium + Vitamin B6 before Bed.

I haven't started this diet yet.
The cardio is just for me to get fit and don't want to cut this out.

I want to gain muscle with this diet.

What do you guys think ?

any major changes or am I set to go count calories?

/j

[bigcwithane]

Not trying to flame but,I think this whole diet needs scraped. There are a bunch of sample diets set up in this section to help you see what foods you need to be eating, and when to eat to help you get to to your goals.

[jimmy79]

ah, really? Is it the timing or just not getting enough of something?

[Jpeyatt]

For starters you need to get rid of the milk and coffee (unless it black, limit it to 1 cut a day).. Try to stick to just egg whites instead of whole eggs (no yoke) IMO..

[jimmy79]

Whats wrong with the milk? Its early in the morning and very nutritious!

[bigcwithane]

Milk contains a lot of sugar. If your looking to cut milk should be nowhere in your diet imho, but this is also your choice

[jimmy79]

I want to build muscle not cut. Is milk ok then?

[gbrice75]

Here goes my new diet I'd like to follow. Maby I can get some comments before I start working out all the calorie values to adjust the portions.

Age: 31
Weight: 70kg (154 pounds)
Height: 1.72m (5 ft 7)
BF: 20%


05:00 Omega-3 caps + 1000mg Vitamin C + Coffee.
05:15 Meal replacement Shake with whole milk 250ml.

What's the point of eating before cardio? You're just burning the immediate fuel source you fed your body - might as well not do cardio. Point being - do the cardio to burn fat, and do it on an empty stomach. Take some BCAA's instead

05:30 60 minutes cardio.

Great! Make sure it's low intensity cardio since you're doing it on an empty stomach now =)

06:45 Meal replacement Shake with whole milk 250ml.

I'd do straight whey protein here, no carbs, no fats. It's the first bit of nutrients your body is getting, but you don't want to negate the cardio you just did. 25g whey protein mixed with water here

08:00 BREAKFAST: (3 Eggs omelet mixed with vegies + 1/2 cup oats) OR (Steak + 1 cup all-bran-flakes serial + banana) + Coffee.

Make it a 2 egg omelet and add 4-6 whites. Not nearly enough protein here. Keep the 1/2 cup oats. I wouldn't do steak this early as you need a faster absorbing protein right now - eggs are perfect. Definitely drop the cereal and banana, stick with the oats and add berries if you'd like

11:00 Cottage cheese + Avo + apple

What's Avo? Nevermind - this is a crap meal anyway. Drop it and do 4oz lean protein, 20-30g complex carbs here (sweet potato, brown rice, quinoa, lentils, beans, etc)

14:00 Tuna + Tomoto + 10 olives + Salad & Cheese.

Tuna out of the can, or tuna SALAD mixed with mayo? I think you know where this is going. Also, drop the cheese and olives. Add a complex carb here to fuel your workout

15:15 BCAA mixed with water.

15:30 60 minutes Weight Lifting

16:30 Banana + Whey

I'd do whey + 1/2 cup oats mixed in, not the banana

17:00 Vitamin B complex. + Coffee.

19:00 Beef mince + Brocoli + mixed veggies + Coffee.

Good meal - maybe a tbsp of olive oil drizzled over the veggies

21:00 Calcium + Vitamin B6 before Bed.

Add your cottage cheese back in here (full fat). OR, you can do a casein shake + tbsp of natty PB, OR a lean steak (move your am steak here, best choice)

I haven't started this diet yet.
The cardio is just for me to get fit and don't want to cut this out.

I want to gain muscle with this diet.

What do you guys think ?

any major changes or am I set to go count calories?

/j

Regardless of the goal (gaining muscle or cutting fat), the diet is pretty weak. Having said that, I wouldn't be thinking of anything but cutting at 20% bodyfat. You will not be able to see your results, and you won't be happy - AND it will be that much harder (and longer) to cut the bodyfat after the fact. I'd strongly suggest you get down to an appreciable bodyfat (below 15% at least) before considering a diet to add any mass.

Suggestions above in bold. Damn, you drink alot of coffee! Not that big of a deal, but i'd cut back a bit. Is that coffee with sugar and milk?

PS - to answer your other question - milk would be alot more tolerable on a mass building diet, but I don't think it's for you right now. I'd cut it out completely - tons of sugar, not what you need. And drop those shitty weight gainer shakes all together! They suck, no gains. My .02

[jimmy79]

Thanks for the input. You've convinced me to rather cut.

Avo, like in Avocado pear.
"High avocado intake has been shown to have a beneficial effect on blood serum cholesterol levels. Specifically, after a seven-day diet rich in avocados, hypercholesterolemia patients showed a 17% decrease in total serum cholesterol levels."

The tuna is out of the can.

The coffee is without sugar and a lot of milk! :-)

I don't know if I will be able to drop the milk but the rest I'm going to try.

/j

[gbrice75]

Thanks for the input. You've convinced me to rather cut.

Avo, like in Avocado pear.
"High avocado intake has been shown to have a beneficial effect on blood serum cholesterol levels. Specifically, after a seven-day diet rich in avocados, hypercholesterolemia patients showed a 17% decrease in total serum cholesterol levels."

The tuna is out of the can.

The coffee is without sugar and a lot of milk! :-)

I don't know if I will be able to drop the milk but the rest I'm going to try.

/j

Good choice bro! Yes, avacado's are a great food, excellent source of healthy fat among other nutrients. If you can't drop the milk, find ways to curb it. Keep it in your coffee but don't use whole. Get fat free half and half instead if that makes it easier. However, you cannot be consuming large quantities of milk on a cutting diet and expect to see great results. It's just not going to happen. Take it from me as a milk lover - I could drink a gallon/day.

[indie10669]

Contrary to what Gbrice has said, I'd strongly recommend doing a bulk as you had initially wanted to. Given your stats, you have very little muscle. If you're going to have to bulk and cut, you have 2 choices:

1) Bulk first, gain muscle, increase metabolic rate from more muscle, cut with more calories, have hawt abz or what have you...
2) Cut on very low calories, become a stick, bulk up extremely slowly with your slow metabolic rate, then have to cut a second time to look like you'd like...

I was once in a similar position as yourself and took this road as it's the logical way to go. I'm very happy with the results.

That being said, the listed diet is still crap and needs to be thrown out hahaha!

[gbrice75]

Contrary to what Gbrice has said, I'd strongly recommend doing a bulk as you had initially wanted to. Given your stats, you have very little muscle. If you're going to have to bulk and cut, you have 2 choices:

1) Bulk first, gain muscle, increase metabolic rate from more muscle, cut with more calories, have hawt abz or what have you...
2) Cut on very low calories, become a stick, bulk up extremely slowly with your slow metabolic rate, then have to cut a second time to look like you'd like...

I was once in a similar position as yourself and took this road as it's the logical way to go. I'm very happy with the results.

That being said, the listed diet is still crap and needs to be thrown out hahaha!

Indie, I respect your opinion and obviously the choice is ultimately the OP's, but I need to correct a few things you said that are simply incorrect:

1) Bulking at 20% bodyfat is crazy IMO - and I believe that's going to be the popular opinion. Cutting sucks, and bulking at 20% will only make it an even longer cut, and longer duration = more time to give up, screw up, etc. Cutting at 20% is STILL a task if one wants to get to an appreciable bodyfat percentage, but not to the point that there's no light at the end of the tunnel.

2) Nobody said anything about cutting on very low calories. I would never recommend that. At this point, we don't know the OP's caloric needs. If anything, i'd put him around 200 or so under maintenance and let cardio take care of the rest. I'd probably even incorporate a maintenance day just to keep metabolism fired up. Become a stick - well yes, with very little muscle and/or no base, that's inevitable. HOWEVER - he will NOT have to bulk up extremely slowly because we will not have knocked down his metabolism by much, if at all. Also, if he bulks the right way (and I hate using the term bulk because that's not what i'd recommend) - the amount of time he'd have to spend cutting would be negligible, because it should be a very clean bulk and VERY little bodyfat will be added if done correctly. So, let's review:

Start bulking at 20%. Add some mass, add fat. Upwards of 25-30%. Start a cut. Months and months go by (this is a fact, you will not cut from 25% + down to 10-12 in a couple of months), you lose bodyfat and also lose mass (almost definitely going to happen). Finally reach your desired bodyfat level, and after let's say a TOTAL (bulking plus cutting) of 8 months, you've netted 5lbs of lean mass.

OR

Start a cut now and reach 10% bodyfat within 3-4 months (definitely possible). Don't have to be concerned with losing LBM because you don't have much to begin with. Metabolism will be affected very little if at all because caloric deficit will be minimal, cardio will be high. With the right eating habits (many small meals throughout the day, good meal/macro timing and combos, etc), metabolism will stay on fire. Possibly even get BETTER if your current diet is shit, which it appears to be. Reach 10% bodyfat, start a very clean bulk. Add lean mass, very little fat. another 4 months go by, you've added lean mass that I guarantee will be more then 5lbs, and if anything maybe 2-3% bodyfat - 1 month of cutting and tons of cardio can take care of that easily.

Again, i'm not saying my way is the right way, everybody has their opinions, but I think the answer is obvious.

[indie10669]

In the end, we're really both right, as either route will yield similar results. I just think the other way would be easier to do and he would look a little better in the end. However, your way also has the major advantage of FEELING better and looking better throughout the process. Based on what you've written here and elsewhere, we've essentially both gone from being fatties to being fit with our own respective approach, coming to a similar place by 2 different paths, and now we're supporting what we did haha!

1) I also agree that bulking at 20% is a real shit situation to be in, but in my opinion, cutting at 155 is even worse. If he bulked up to, say, 200 pounds (I also hesitate to say"bulk" here as it sounds like an all-out get-huge endeavor, whereas I prefer very slow, clean bulking) at 25%, he'd at least have a solid 150 pounds to work with. Cutting to, say 10%, he'd end up with about 120 lbs to work with. I feel ridiculous even writing that. 120 lbs? My girlfriend is 115 and I'm almost double that haha!

2) I'm sorry, it did sound like that's what I meant. By low cals I meant that cutting from now, he'll have to eat less calories than if he were to cut after a bulk (being bigger), which always sucks and is harder to do.

I completely agree with how he should go about the cutting and bulking cycles as well. It's just the orders that I feel should be reversed. When it comes down to it OP, I won't bullshit you that from a bodybuilding perspective, you're in a pretty bad state right now. But with the right knowledge and hard work, you can look however you want in any reasonable amount of time and feel great. Either path will get you there. It's just a matter of whether or not you'd rather feel and look better the whole way (which is huge btw, feeling good about yourself is very encouraging) and do it slightly slower vs. going down an easier path that you'll probably look a little better in in the end. Both have their advantages and disadvantages and both would get you there. Just please do a little more research on nutrition. If you have any specific questions about anything, you know we're here to help

[jimmy79]

indie10669, What changes would you make to the diet to change it for bulking then?

[jimmy79]

Gbrice, I've really thought about it now and I would be willing to sacrifice my six-pack for now if I could rather get stronger first. I'm really, really weak!
My 1 rep max in bench press is only 90 pounds.(thats including the bar)

My bodyfat measurements with calipers are 9% in my arms&legs and 33% in the adipose tissue (Which is because of inactivity, pizza & low testosterone(200))

[bigcwithane]

Maybe just start eating at your maitnence. And adjust to your liking from there if you feel your not gaining at all add 100 cal.

[indie10669]

Well essentially here's what you need to do:
1) Do a lot of research on nutrition
2) I'd recommend trying a pre-formulated diet.
-try this: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...rn-how-to-Diet and watch all the clips (I think 6)
3) Keep researching while "dieting"
4) LEARN from the program.
-Learn WHY you're doing the things you do
-Learn how you react to carbs, fats, prots.
-Learn about how much food you need to maintain, gain, and cut

Do as he says or find another diet out there that's been made by someone more experienced. Weigh yourself every so often, making sure you're gaining weight. If you're gaining too much fat, eat a little less. If you're gaining at a good pace, keep it til you stop gaining. In your case, I'd recommend bulking extremely slowly. If you bulk too fast, you'll gain a lot of fat and run into the problem Gbrice was talking about, become a fatass, and have to cut harder later on, losing your hard-earned muscle. For example, I aim for about 10 quality pounds a year offf cycle (very slow by most peoples' standards) but I gain almost no fat whatsoever (keep cals right on target, do your cardio, lift hard as hell) and think about what happens to your body fat % as this happens: You gain muscle, keep fat the same (even lose if you can master it), and your bf% decreases just from gaining more solid mass. In the end, what you're left with is a solid base, from which you can cut with more cals and looked ripped as opposed to like a stick.

I'm telling you man, I've learned what I have from constant reading and experimenting on myself. You should do the same. It's the only way you'll learn how the body works and how YOUR body works. Just make sure you pick a good plan and stick to it, adjusting along the way as you see fit and learn more.

Am I making any sense? Sorry, I've been super busy lately and am tired as hell

[jimmy79]

Hey Indie!

You make super sense :-)

Thanks, I've watched those clips, done some research into various diets and have a pretty good understanding now. I've always been intrigued by how the body works.
Its good to have a perspective from different standing points.

I'll be following a new diet that I have formulated and will be updating you guys on my progress.
I think I will be able to master gaining muscle without increasing bf%. As you said the extra muscle will help in that regard.

Cheers!

/j

[gbrice75]

GL brotha, I hope you reach your goals and beyond. Keep us posted with your progress.

[indie10669]

Would you be up for posting your new proposed diet? Just to make sure you're on the right track?

[jimmy79]

Here is my new diet: http://forums.steroid.com/attachment...hmentid=111922

/j

[tbody66]

My $.02, so many things are factors to take into account, bulking at 20% bodyfat is not a good idea. Indie, your personal experience does not translate to everyone, you tried it your way and are pleased with your results but didn't try it the other way where you may have been even more pleased with your results. You have 32 posts here and no credintials listed, and you tell Jimmy to maybe look at a diet from someone with more experience, GB is a diet guru and respected on these boards. Jimmy is 31 years old and not on steroids making it an entirely different dynamic. I'm 5' 6" and weighed 135 lbs and put on 33 lbs in 8 weeks going from 11% - 14% bodyfat when I was 21 years old, that has no bearing on what jimmy should do at his age and circumstances. Bulking doesn't require sacrifice and it is easier to agree with, big fat guys aren't bodybuilders no matter how much muscle is underneath the fat and if he goes up from 20% bodyfat he'll just be a fat guy.

Jimmy, I am all about you being bigger, but not with your bodyfat, at most I would recommend a maintenance calorie diet, higher in protein, and as you gain muscle your additional muscle has a metabolic rate that will burn fat. I loved milk as much as you do and then found out that I had mild allergies to it that prohibited my body from utilizing it to the best of it's ability and that was also why I craved it, as you appear too, this may very well be a much bigger issue than you could imagine, get that checked if possible.

Your workout will make a big difference no matter which route you choose to go. If you'd like some help with that then post it up.

Indie, where's your thread, pics and credentials?