little diet help

[Pkk]

my diet, i know people wont like it lol. the reason i have so many shakes with work and other stuff my lifes pretty flat out. find them easy to sneak in or add on top of a meal.
im pretty thin so eating fats dont scare me, 3 year ago i was in a car crash and didnt get out of bed for like 6 months. before that i was little bigger then i am now and ate way more. people would always comment on how much i ate and how thin i still am. iver been trying to get my intake up and im slowly eating more. ive been going to the gym for a few month and i can see a bit of size coming along. putt on about 3kg in the last 2-3 months.

141 pounds
5 10
age 22
training for little under 6 months, full on for about 3
bf would be as low as possible. only size i have is muscle. only bit on my bit i can pinch and find fat not just skin is on my lower back. tiny little bit hahah girlfriend thinks im worse then her hunting my fat out




6am protein shake

630am cup of oats with full cream milk

9 15am 3 chicken strips in a roll with cheese and sause, 3 chicken wingding(little deep fryed chick wings or drumstick) a few dimsims

1215am half a medium chicken, protein shake (tomorrow im trying 5 eggs protien power because it taste so strong and maybe ice cream or something and milk)

4pm shake with some fruit or if training fruit and shake after work out

6pm dinner changes, stake chicken pasta rice maybe takeaway :P

8 30pm protein shake
middle of the night i get up to go to the toilet thinking of adding shake.

all my shakes have been protein shakes but now i also have weight gainer/protein. its like 800cc and plenty of protein. when should i be using the weight gain instead of the straight protein
i know my meal at 9 15 am is bad, all deep fried but i look forwood to it lol and need something like that at smoko


off topic
tbody
ive been training mon wed fri using all muscles doing 3 sets of 8 doing the heaviest weight i can. should i change to your plan or can you give me some pointers.

also thinking about starting b12 injection anyone use them?
when you stop do you find it hard to eat,
how long can you use for
thanks everyone

[scotty51312]

Ok until tbody gets to this i'll throw in my 37 cents

my diet, i know people wont like it lol. the reason i have so many shakes with work and other stuff my lifes pretty flat out. find them easy to sneak in or add on top of a meal. Go to walmart and spend 5 bucks on some cheap tupperwear and cook in bulk on your day off and portion your meals ahead of time
im pretty thin so eating fats dont scare me, 3 year ago i was in a car crash and didnt get out of bed for like 6 months. before that i was little bigger then i am now and ate way more. people would always comment on how much i ate and how thin i still am. iver been trying to get my intake up and im slowly eating more. ive been going to the gym for a few month and i can see a bit of size coming along. putt on about 3kg in the last 2-3 months.
Eating fats may not scare you but eating fats doesn't build muscle

141 pounds
5 10
age 22
training for little under 6 months, full on for about 3
bf would be as low as possible. only size i have is muscle. only bit on my bit i can pinch and find fat not just skin is on my lower back. tiny little bit hahah girlfriend thinks im worse then her hunting my fat out
Pic would help out you'd be amazed at how people underestimate thier bodyfat even at low weight



6am protein shake
This is a good time for a quick shake 25-30grams of whey

630am cup of oats with full cream milk
cream is about 40% fat and most of it saturated. Drop it and maybe add some berries or no sugar added preserves. This meal also need a slower digesting animal protien egg white, or even chicken breast would be good

9 15am 3 chicken strips in a roll with cheese and sause, 3 chicken wingding(little deep fryed chick wings or drumstick) a few dimsims
Throw this meal away completley. Even if its just one bad meal a day thats 7 bad meals a week. Deep fried food has no place in a bodybuilders diet maybe if you're wanna get into competitive sumo wrestling then it would help

1215am half a medium chicken, protein shake (tomorrow im trying 5 eggs protien power because it taste so strong and maybe ice cream or something and milk)
Half a chicken? i'm assuming your eating skin and all? Thats a lot of fat stick to chicken breast here and add complex carbs (sweet potatoes, brown rice, lentils) And no don't do protien shakes with ice cream
4pm shake with some fruit or if training fruit and shake after work out
If this is your pwo shake then you need to toss the fruit. Fructose is not a good post work out carb, old school bodybuilders use to use grape juice or apple juice with PWO creatine to spike insulin levels and increase protien synthesis, we've came a long way since then. Since you wanna bulk I like a mix of dextrose/malodextrin/oats. Dextrose will spike your insulin and the oats will continue to replenish glycogen stores after
6pm dinner changes, stake chicken pasta rice maybe takeaway :P
This is your first real meal after your workout, don't make it a crap meal. This meal needs to be balanced. Animal protien/complex carbs/fiberous carbs (veggies)
8 30pm protein shake
This needs to be cassien protien if its not already. add a tbsp or two of natural peanutbutter.
middle of the night i get up to go to the toilet thinking of adding shake.

all my shakes have been protein shakes but now i also have weight gainer/protein. its like 800cc and plenty of protein. when should i be using the weight gain instead of the straight protein Weight gainers are crap, usually full of fat and sugars
i know my meal at 9 15 am is bad, all deep fried but i look forwood to it lol and need something like that at smoko
if you enjoy this meal that much then drop it to once a week as a cheat meal.

off topic
tbody
ive been training mon wed fri using all muscles doing 3 sets of 8 doing the heaviest weight i can. should i change to your plan or can you give me some pointers.
If you're doing all muscles 3 days a week you're not training right. Muscle groups need to be split up into a 3 or 4 day split for example
monday: chest, bicepts
teusday: legs
wed: off
thursday back tricepts
friday: off
saturday Delts traps
low reps and heavy weight are good mass builders once you have the foundation to build on. IMO you need to drop the weight and up the reps 4 sets of 12 (1st as a warmup) 3 excercises each muscle
also thinking about starting b12 injection anyone use them?
B12 injections can't hurt as long as you know how to pin properly I never noticed an increase in appetite from them but did have good endurance
when you stop do you find it hard to eat,
how long can you use for
B12 can be used for long periods of time if used properly.
thanks everyone

Work on that training split and get your diet straight and you'll put on some mass. Post up pics so we can get an accurate bodyfat.

[gbrice75]

THANK YOU Scotty for getting this one! I have a hard time getting into the diets that are SO bad and all over the place, no offense OP.

Scotty will get you sorted though, you're in good hands! =)

[scotty51312]

THANK YOU Scotty for getting this one! I have a hard time getting into the diets that are SO bad and all over the place, no offense OP.
hey no problem i know you can't get to them all
Scotty will get you sorted though, you're in good hands! =)

appreciate that bro!

[tbody66]

PKK, thanks for posting your own thread here, like I asked, so we can help you. I am okay with total body workout three times a week, absolutely what I would recommend for your height and weight, I want to know the specifics: exact exercise, weight used, rest between sets, total time to complete workout, etc... Sorry for having to disagree completely with scotty on this one. It is actually called a "high intensity" workout and when it was originally created had all the evidence to support that it is a program your body doesn't adapt to, it constantly shocks your body into growing and your body cannot ever figure out the train/rest/train/rest/train/rest/rest split. I personally wouldn't recommend it to an older person with years of training experience, but I know for a fact that at your age your body produces enough chemicals for this not to be overtraining you, and actually offers you the optimal growth opportunities.

scotty, I too am glad you are available, please stay along for the whole ride. I have a request though, PKK has to put on weight!!! When I was 21 years old I gained 33lbs in eight weeks, going from 135lbs to 168lbs from 11% bf to 14% bodyfat, eating three times a day, all homemade foods and only drinking whole milk between meals and after dinner, no supplements whatsoever. I was also on the exact same split we are talking about, a total body workout three times a week each workout only lasting between 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes.

I know it is very very very difficult to offer any advice that seems to not be completely pure/healthy/clean, but please consider he has to have a massive increase in his caloric intake and he cannot do that without fat, please consider not dissuading him completely from this approach.

[scotty51312]

I'm all for a healthy fat intake but just that, Healthy. Unsaturated fats omega-3's and omega-6, good sources (avacado's, fish oil, olive oil, macadamia oil, grapeseed oil) and maybe even some animal fats. if anything I'd tell him to run a 35/40/25 Protien carb fat split or 40/40/20. Never been a fat of full body workouts for beginners, have however put people on a two day split, i refer to as a push pull split and run that 3 times a week so every other week each muscle group gets hit twice. But you never know just because i've never personally used a routine like that doesnt' mean it won't be successfull for you

[Pkk]

Thanks heaps mate im willing to change everything needed, become a ginipig and do what evers needed.
I didn't think the fat Ive been eating was bad.
One thing I see I didn't post was that all my shakes are with milk but the after work out shake. I love milk and could drink it all day.
Weight gainer shakes are out. Only Cassien shakes
The pwo shake that you said dextrose/malodextrin/oats, do you just chuck it all together In a shake? Also where's a good site to buy dextrose/malodextrin from I live in aus. Any other product you think will help? Moneys not so much a issue

I'm on my phone right now when I get home I'll take some pics, that's going to be embrassing lol.
This week I start training splits at gym tonight

Sorry for the bad diet and noobie questions.

[scotty51312]

you can check out the ingredients on carb supplements. Some are mixtures of dextrose and malodextrin. Others are waxey maize which is another good post work out carb

[Pkk]

here they are dont be to harsh lol






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[Pkk]

[Pkk]

PKK, thanks for posting your own thread here, like I asked, so we can help you. I am okay with total body workout three times a week, absolutely what I would recommend for your height and weight, I want to know the specifics: exact exercise, weight used, rest between sets, total time to complete workout, etc... Sorry for having to disagree completely with scotty on this one. It is actually called a "high intensity" workout and when it was originally created had all the evidence to support that it is a program your body doesn't adapt to, it constantly shocks your body into growing and your body cannot ever figure out the train/rest/train/rest/train/rest/rest split. I personally wouldn't recommend it to an older person with years of training experience, but I know for a fact that at your age your body produces enough chemicals for this not to be overtraining you, and actually offers you the optimal growth opportunities.

this is the way my dad told me to go about it, said it worked best when he was younger.
ill list what i done tonight. i try and do each part, not sure if i am. open to all ideas
flat bench 1 warm up set 25 on each side bars about 30, 80 pounds 8 reps. set 2 130 pounds 8 last one spotter helped a bit. set 3 130 pounds 7 reps spotter helped last 2. set 4 100 pounds 8 reps then drop set to 8- pounds and got 5+ out cant remember. i throw in drop sets sometimes when im feeling good.
next bicep curls, with a bar 40 pounds plus like 10 pounds for bar.
you sit down and lean forwood have your chest resting on pad in front and put your arms over grab the bar. sorry i dont know its name
3 sets of that
sit down caif raises. 100 pounds on each site 3 sets of 9-10
quad curls i think, top of the leg, 165 3 set 9-10 reps
lay down hamstring curls 121 3 reps of 8
i started doing quats just fell little lazy on legs tonight
next is like rowing but you dont move, i keep a straight back and try not to move but my arms :P. 121 pounds 3 set of 8
chest poll down, bend my back and pull it right down onto middle of my chest. 3 set of 8 110
tricep pulldowns with a rope, 3 sets of 8 60 first two, last 40
leg rises, wheer your holding your weight with forarms and bring legs up. 30 then 20
80 crunches, but on this wierd bench. alot harder then laying down on ground.
60 pound bar standing up pulling it up to middle of my face, 3 sets of 8
maybe i left something out i done, i normaly do something like that normaly little more.
if any of the number sound out some of the weights/machines are in kg or pounds and its hard to remember lol
normaly try to have a 45-1min brake but sometime little longer if i day dream haha
took about any hour.
also i have found now i can pretty much push any body part hard and not really painfull next day at all.


scotty, I too am glad you are available, please stay along for the whole ride. I have a request though, PKK has to put on weight!!! When I was 21 years old I gained 33lbs in eight weeks, going from 135lbs to 168lbs from 11% bf to 14% bodyfat, eating three times a day, all homemade foods and only drinking whole milk between meals and after dinner, no supplements whatsoever. I was also on the exact same split we are talking about, a total body workout three times a week each workout only lasting between 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes.

yeah weight is the main thing i want, even if i have to shred it later i dont mind, doubt ill have to tho. you would have hate to see how i use to eat lol and never got ounce of fat from it.
thanks for showing alot of interest, stick with me and watch me grow. ill do all possible amd open to any ideas
I know it is very very very difficult to offer any advice that seems to not be completely pure/healthy/clean, but please consider he has to have a massive increase in his caloric intake and he cannot do that without fat, please consider not dissuading him completely from this approach.

thanks for all the input

[scotty51312]

You have the the classic hard gainer build. For you i would recommend sticking with with basic movements. Bench Press, Shoulder press, Squats, Deadlifts, Rows and Lat pulls. I'm interested in what tbody has to say about this one. With your frame I would stay away from muscle isolation excercises like the rope for tri's. Do us a favor check your heart rate a few times durring your next workout. You should keep an eye on this If your rest periods are too short your workout becomes aerobic instead of anaerobic causeing you to burn more calories. And definitley don't shy away from complex carbs in your diet. tbody if you're around i defer to you on his workout program, and might interject my 2 cents here and there. Looking forward to seeing you progress bro!

[tbody66]

What we are doing is simple, we are going in and hitting it hard and heavy, working largest muscle groups to smallest, and getting your body used to performing the basic exercises necesarry to build on.

Warm up - Jump rope for 2 minutes straight

I'm changing your rep range to be muscle group specific, it also is a "range" which means you go to failure on every set, if you can't perform the exercise properly to the bottom number, the weight is too heavy, go lighter, and if you can perform the exercise properly for more than the higher number, the weight is too light, add weight.
Legs:
Squats 3 sets 15-20 reps perform these all by themselves, little rest between sets 90 secs
Stiff legged deadlifts 15-20 reps supersetted with calf raises 3x21 (7/7/7-toes in/heels out-toes out/heels in-toes and heels lined up)
Back/Chest:
Pull-ups 3 sets w/bodyweight to failure supersetted with flat barbell Bench Press 3 sets 12-15 reps
bent rows 3 sets 12-15 reps supersetted with Incline Bench Press 3 sets 12-15 reps
Shoulders/Abs:
Military Press 3 sets 12-15 reps Supersetted with Crunches 3 sets to failure
Upright rows 3 sets 20-25 reps supersetted with hanging leg lifts 3 sets to failure
Triceps/Biceps:
skull crushers 3 sets 12-15 reps supersetted with Barbell Curls 3 sets 12-15 reps
cardio/cool down

Do this for eight weeks, don't add or subtract anything, at the end of eight weeks I want to see pics then we'll change the entire workout, probably a push/pull like scotty was talking about.

[Pkk]

will be starting this tomorrow still do mon wed fri ?
also my chest is really where i want to get bigger, should we add anything or stick with it.
thanks alot for this, ill stick to it and keep you updated. this is actually going to make me work harder i think, i cant wait to see before and after pics together.

anyone want to guess my bf?

[tbody66]

will be starting this tomorrow still do mon wed fri ?
also my chest is really where i want to get bigger, should we add anything or stick with it.
thanks alot for this, ill stick to it and keep you updated. this is actually going to make me work harder i think, i cant wait to see before and after pics together.

anyone want to guess my bf?

12-13%. As far as the routine, stick with it as designed. I am thinking we'll run this for five weeks, and then I'd like you to participate in the remote trainer challange. Go to that thread and post that you want to participate and you want a trainer. It's a twelve week challange and I really think you'll be a great candidate.

[Pkk]

I'll post now. Sounds like a good plan

[tbody66]

I'll post now. Sounds like a good plan

Thanks for joining, I'm expecting great things from you.

[Pkk]

tbody im thinking about changing a bit of the work out. to get those reps out im having to half the weight if not more. also ive been reading alot and people ive been talking to have all been telling me that amount of reps will rip not bulk. what do you think this looks like

Squat 3 x 10
Dead lift 3 x 8
Bench press 3 x 8
Calf raise 3 x 8 (toes in monday toes out wed straight friday)
Military press 3 x 8
Bent row 3 x 8
skull crushers or tricep pulldown 3 x 8
BB curl 3 x 8

i also brought some b12, all that i read seem great about it.(read alot lol)

also even more off topic lol
a friend is doing a dbol only 4 week cycle, ive explained all the facts how he shouldnt do it, even printed some threads off but hes still going ahead. i have talked him into doing a pct (the guys he works out with have never heard of a pct and all do cycle :S) just had to show him a few post that safe risk of limp dick haha and he jumped.

just want to check this is right before i tell him to buy it.
liquidex 30ml 1mg/ml. in case of gyno

Liquid Tamox 50mL 20mg/mL. ED at 40/40/20/20 so that means first 2 weeks 2ml ED and 1ml the second 2?
Liquid Clomi 70mL 35mg/mL. ED at 70/70/35/35 so that means first 2 weeks 2ml ED and 1ml the second 2?
i also told him to buy milk thistles and lv52 to take while hes on and after woulds aswell
all sound good?

[tbody66]

tbody im thinking about changing a bit of the work out. to get those reps out im having to half the weight if not more. also ive been reading alot and people ive been talking to have all been telling me that amount of reps will rip not bulk. what do you think this looks like

Squat 3 x 10
Dead lift 3 x 8
Bench press 3 x 8
Calf raise 3 x 8 (toes in monday toes out wed straight friday)
Military press 3 x 8
Bent row 3 x 8
skull crushers or tricep pulldown 3 x 8
BB curl 3 x 8

i also brought some b12, all that i read seem great about it.(read alot lol)

also even more off topic lol
a friend is doing a dbol only 4 week cycle, ive explained all the facts how he shouldnt do it, even printed some threads off but hes still going ahead. i have talked him into doing a pct (the guys he works out with have never heard of a pct and all do cycle :S) just had to show him a few post that safe risk of limp dick haha and he jumped.

just want to check this is right before i tell him to buy it.
liquidex 30ml 1mg/ml. in case of gyno

Liquid Tamox 50mL 20mg/mL. ED at 40/40/20/20 so that means first 2 weeks 2ml ED and 1ml the second 2?
Liquid Clomi 70mL 35mg/mL. ED at 70/70/35/35 so that means first 2 weeks 2ml ED and 1ml the second 2?
i also told him to buy milk thistles and lv52 to take while hes on and after woulds aswell
all sound good?

Those are the exact rep ranges I did when I put on 33 lbs in 8 weeks! You are built as a small hard-gainer, don't listen to them, listen to me and let your build do the talking in four more weeks. I am not reading something in some magazine and spouting it, I have gold medals in powerlifting and have trained hundreds of people in person, I've been lifting for 29 years, training for 19 years, certified for 5 years and even owned my own gym. It isn't about the weight that you are lifting, this is very hard to get over, but you need to get over it, we are building a base for the future, do it exactly as written and you will grow and have a base built to grow on for years to come without injury.

As far as your friend, four weeks of anything is not a cycle, it's a waste. The only thing I know about PCT is the clomid, I also like nolvadex. Just something for the gyno and something to kick the body's testosterone production back into play.

[Pkk]

Those are the exact rep ranges I did when I put on 33 lbs in 8 weeks! You are built as a small hard-gainer, don't listen to them, listen to me and let your build do the talking in four more weeks. I am not reading something in some magazine and spouting it, I have gold medals in powerlifting and have trained hundreds of people in person, I've been lifting for 29 years, training for 19 years, certified for 5 years and even owned my own gym. It isn't about the weight that you are lifting, this is very hard to get over, but you need to get over it, we are building a base for the future, do it exactly as written and you will grow and have a base built to grow on for years to come without injury.

As far as your friend, four weeks of anything is not a cycle, it's a waste. The only thing I know about PCT is the clomid, I also like nolvadex. Just something for the gyno and something to kick the body's testosterone production back into play.

Let's see the gains roll In I'll stick with it

[tbody66]

Let's see the gains roll In I'll stick with it

It will work!

[scotty51312]

if you're friend is running a 4 week dbol only cycle that PCT is an overkill. Tell him to run it just like this clomid 50/50/25/25 nolva 20/20/20/20. PCT chems aren't something you wanna do to much of

[Pkk]

Thanks for that info scotty, I know and have told him that it's a bad idea but atleast with a good pct hopely nothing should go wrong.

[Pkk]

hey i got some b12 and went and got some needle but could only get 27 gauge half inch long, what shot would be the best to do.