Contest prep diet....

**Nicotine** · 11-27-2010, 01:41 PM

so my training is going fantastic......

for those that dont know, i went from a revolting blob os 270lbs of mcfatty to a damn lean 167.. from there i've built up, sitting at 244 (finally broke 240!) at around 16-18% body fat. my top 4 abs are still somewhat visible, my shoulder detail still shows a fair deal - so i could be far worse off (bulk dieting has worked great, but im honestly tired of food at this point. ugh.)

so.

for those that have dieted for contest - im aiming to do my first at the end of march 2011.

does anyone have a meal by meal plan (even if it's the same thing daily, i have NO issue with that, as i've done it before) that's good for contest prep.

of course, i'll be teaming it up with 1hr of cardio on an empty stomach every morning - and a cycle of test/eq/tren for the duration, winny for 8 weeks, and halo for the last 6 weeks approx (plus my dieuretics...dont worry about PCT, no need as im on HRT for life)

any simple diet layouts appreciated. i plan on starting right smack in january, i figure it will give me approx 20 weeks to get dieted down - should be enough time.

my ONLY question, is on most contest prep diets in order to avoid looking flat, how often would i have a small amount of oatmeal or sweet potato? every other day?

thanks a million for everything guys! you've all been awesome to me thus far!

**gbrice75** · 11-27-2010, 01:51 PM

Nice job bro!!!

This would probably be a good one for FG to help you out with, but I can at least give my opinions.

Firstly, in your last question it sounds like you're talking about dropping carbs for the most part? I don't think that's necessary. Granted, I doubt you'll be eating 400g/day, probably more like 200 or even less - but they don't have to be dropped, contest or no contest. Keep eating them, just keep them clean, keep them in the 1st half of your day (except for pre/pwo), and i'd suggest the portions taper down throughout the day. So just as an example:

meal 1 40g carbs
meal 2 (pre workout) 40g carbs
meal 3 (pwo) 50g carbs
meal 4 25g carbs
meal 5 fiberous veggies only, and some healthy fats
meal 6 same
meal 7 same

and so on. Obviously, lean protein source in every meal.

If you post up your own diet, i'd be happy to try and help you work it out.

**baseline_9** · 11-27-2010, 06:19 PM

I dont have the experience but i can also give you my advise;

1. Keep ur food choices super clean, no sauces etc...

2. Be consistent with ur diet and give it time

3. Work out ur mtnce calories and cycle calories consumed around there, cycling coming mainly from the carbs

4. Make sure ur hiting the cardio every day and dont be scared to pick up the heart beat a little even when fasted. 1 rest day from cardio

5. Take pictures every week, take skin fold test and make sure ur progressing

6. Eat eggs, chicken, white fish, lean beef, turkey, broccoli,oats, rice, potatoes, whey, cut any fruit and dairy out except maybe a lil cottage cheese b4 bed

7. Avoid all simple carbs!

8. Eat carbs to fuel ur training but not ur day to day life, allow ur stored bodyfat to fuel urself thruout ur day and hopefully ur cardio

9. Dont fukin quit!

**Nicotine** · 11-27-2010, 08:04 PM

im very carb sensitive..... rice for too long adds fat on my lower back and lower stomach and ass very quickly.

im a big ol white scottish guy... so for me to lose, i have to be very strict.

***FireGuy*** · 11-28-2010, 10:06 AM

First thing you need to do is stop with the Yo-Yo weight gain/loss. 270 to 167 to 244, absolutely no reason to ever do that. It doesnt add any extra muscle and is terrible for your skins elasticity. When you say you are carb sensitive I am betting it's more you are "sugar" sensitive. Too much rice for too long will add bodyfat to everyone not just you. With your stated bodyfat levels and this being your first contest you are going to want to start dieting yesterday. It's hard to say without seeing pictures but at this point I would guess to be in contest shape you will be south of 200lbs.

As far as setting up a contest diet, this is actually relatively easy. There are a dozen guys on here who can assist and do a great job with it. The challenging part is adjusting it, knowing what to adjust and when to adjust is the key. If you are truly serious about this hire someone in your area who can work with you on all aspects of competing. Giving advice on how to get to 10% and taking a guy through a complete contest prep diet online are two different animals.

**Nicotine** · 11-28-2010, 01:53 PM

well, it wasnt intentional!!

i was obese as shit, and wanted to be small and skinny.................

then of course, you get a little bit more mass.... then a bit more..then you want more..and more.

this is a span of 5 yrs. not within like 1 or 2 ..... the big weightloss was 1++++ yrs. then the 2nd and part of the 3rd yr was putting on a bit more weight.

then the last 2 yrs has been aiming for more size over all...

so as much as it's "yo yo" - its not like im dropping 103lbs in 8 months, then stacking on 60-70 in 6 more months. it's just been progression as i change directions and progress.

as for hiring a GOOD trainer that competes..... im niagara falls canada. other than one or two people, there's shit all here for big time competitors. some guys do compete, etc etc, but not hardcore into it or on any major scale.

**gbrice75** · 11-28-2010, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Giving advice on how to get to 10% and taking a guy through a complete contest prep diet online are two different animals.

THIS ^^^ is why I didn't want to say too much - that would be overstepping my boundaries! =)

**Nicotine** · 11-28-2010, 09:06 PM

well, that's why im here.

if i knew someone that could give me help, rather than have an ego and give zero help/answers - then i'd ask them.

i never expected this much attitude.

**baseline_9** · 11-29-2010, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by Nicotine

well, that's why im here.

if i knew someone that could give me help, rather than have an ego and give zero help/answers - then i'd ask them.

i never expected this much attitude.

What is all of this about ^^^

**gbrice75** · 11-29-2010, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

What is all of this about ^^^

x2... i'm confused!

***FireGuy*** · 11-29-2010, 09:01 AM

I am assuming he is referring to my post. If that was mistaken as attitude as opposed to an honest assessment then competing in bodybuilding is not for you. I gave you an opinion and was respectful in doing so.

***FireGuy*** · 11-29-2010, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

THIS ^^^ is why I didn't want to say too much - that would be overstepping my boundaries! =)

Was not implying this to be the case. At 16 weeks out my diet usually get minor changes on a weekly basis, by 4 weeks out the changes are more often and much more significant. The last week my diet literally changes daily or hourly and is all dependent upon what the mirror is telling me. My point is no matter how good any of us may be at helping others diet,a precontest protocol is best done by someone who is working with the client one on one (in person) as opposed to online.

**gbrice75** · 11-29-2010, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

Was not implying this to be the case. At 16 weeks out my diet usually get minor changes on a weekly basis, by 4 weeks out the changes are more often and much more significant. The last week my diet literally changes daily or hourly and is all dependent upon what the mirror is telling me. My point is no matter how good any of us may be at helping others diet,a precontest protocol is best done by someone who is working with the client one on one (in person) as opposed to online.

I agree. Obviously I have no experience with contest prep or anything even close to it, but IMO it's common sense (no insult to you OP).

**Nicotine** · 11-29-2010, 02:40 PM

well, if i knew where or who to deal with, i wouldn't be here.

i know it's a LOT different than getting "lean". im well aware of that.

im well aware that i have NO clue how my body will react as i go - but that's the thing. who here the first time through did?

not all of us are fortunate enough to have heavy duty trainers/diet help around in person. if i can get a starting point, great.

if not - maybe if i had tits like the girls in the "i wanna do a bikini show" thread, maybe you guys would then ask me to post up my current diet, and offer help.

i have man boobs, if that helps?

***FireGuy*** · 11-29-2010, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Nicotine

well, if i knew where or who to deal with, i wouldn't be here.

i know it's a LOT different than getting "lean". im well aware of that.

im well aware that i have NO clue how my body will react as i go - but that's the thing. who here the first time through did?

not all of us are fortunate enough to have heavy duty trainers/diet help around in person. if i can get a starting point, great.

if not - maybe if i had tits like the girls in the "i wanna do a bikini show" thread, maybe you guys would then ask me to post up my current diet, and offer help.
i have man boobs, if that helps?

Did you read the last sentence in post #2?

**Nicotine** · 11-29-2010, 03:18 PM

what im eating now will be FAR different than a contest prep diet...im well aware.

and, please show me anyone in here that did their first diet without asking for help from anyone?

i think we all start not knowing anything, how our bodies react, what to adjust and when. im well aware it's a learning experience. i'm not dumb....

breakfast:

oatmeal+raspberries+blueberries, 5pcs salt reduced turkey bacon, 16 egg whites (2 of those are whole eggs). 2 caps of flaxseed oil, 2 caps of codliver oil.

meal 2: steak and sweet potato

meal 3: oatmeal and chicken

meal 4: oatmeal and tilapia

meal 5: basmati or whole grain brown rice (small serving) and a meat of my choice

meal 6: post workout, 3 scoop isolate shake, natural peanut butter and banana mixed in, 2 caps of codliver oil, 2 caps of flaxseed oil, smaller serving of oatmeal.

that's the avg. some days i add in a 7th, most days are 6.

not the absolute best - but im still new to this and learning. seems to be working.

**Swifto** · 11-29-2010, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Nicotine

well, that's why im here.

if i knew someone that could give me help, rather than have an ego and give zero help/answers - then i'd ask them.

i never expected this much attitude.

Its pretty clear your the one with the "attitude".

You got nothing more than constructive criticism. You got help and if you follow what people are asking you here - post your diet... You might get the answers if you play nice.

As for FG having an ego, if anyone deserves to have one its him in regards to competing and pre-contest diet's. The fella knows his shit and insulting him really isnt how I'd be doing things if I were you.

***FireGuy*** · 11-29-2010, 03:29 PM

I am not sure what you have read that implies you are dumb or shouldnt be asking for help. Are you glancing over what people have written or reading their entire post?

Now, on meals 2-6 you need to write out the portions as in how much the food weighs prior to cooking it. If you dont already have a food scale put it on your Christmas list as you will need one. Although your food choices look good if they are in the wrong amounts you will not get the desired results.

**Nicotine** · 11-29-2010, 04:36 PM

my current eating plan i keep to one breast of chicken. tilapia is 4 filets, oatmeal is 1/2 cup measured uncooked, sweet potato is one large, rice is 2 measured servings......

there are days when i want a bit more, some days a bit less.... i still keep it as consistant as possible, on the days when i feel i want the bit more than normal i allow it right now... i know when it comes down to the prep i wont have that option....so im enjoying it while i can :P

when i go to cut for show, i know im gonna have to get a food scale... anything you recommend as far as a quality scale?

how would i go about figuring out food weighs/meal requirements? done by body weight/caloric necessity?

sorry for the attitude i've given. getting over pneumonia currently, and kinda tired of the negative people surrounding my life atm...lots of negativity around me lately.

which often breeds negativity in return. which i know isnt a good thing.

**Damienm05** · 11-29-2010, 05:09 PM

Originally Posted by Nicotine

my current eating plan i keep to one breast of chicken. tilapia is 4 filets, oatmeal is 1/2 cup measured uncooked, sweet potato is one large, rice is 2 measured servings...... Hmm - Alright, you really should portion your protein and carbs more consistently and logically throughout the day. For example, 4 decent tilapia filets is 80g of protein, while an 8 oz. chicken breast is 50g. Meanwhile, 1/2 cup raw oats is only 25g of carbs, a large sweet potato can be as many as 50g, and I haven't gone by "servings" since I started a real BB diet but I believe your rice portion is upwards of 70g. Like FG said, food choices are only half of it - you need to consume based on specific macros needed based on your individual needs and schedule and not just whatever seems to be a decent portion.

there are days when i want a bit more, some days a bit less.... i still keep it as consistant as possible, on the days when i feel i want the bit more than normal i allow it right now... i know when it comes down to the prep i wont have that option....so im enjoying it while i can :P I'd get in the habit of absolute consistency now. Overeat all you want when you're hungry but make is green veggies. Some days I'll eat a whole bag of romaine lettuce or something if it means I don't mess up my macros for the day.

when i go to cut for show, i know im gonna have to get a food scale... anything you recommend as far as a quality scale? Get one now! It's a basic necessity for even casual dieters. I got a $20.00 one at the grocery store almost 2 years ago by Salter and despite having to change the battery a couple times, it's done me justice.

how would i go about figuring out food weighs/meal requirements? done by body weight/caloric necessity? Figure out your BMR and TDEE, I'll post the formula below. Ideally you should set your calories at that number (TDEE/Maintenance) and simply do 60 minutes of cardio every day to make a caloric deficit starting as far out from the show as possible. If you are ahead of schedule, great but since you're so new to all this - start ASAP. This method will ensure you keep your muscles and slowly, responsibly strip away the fat.As for the ratios that will make up those calories - 1.5-2g of protein per lb. of lean body weight, 1.5g of carbs, and the rest healthy fats to make up the rest is a good starting point but ultimately, it will come down to trial and error and the advice you'll receive when posting a properly devised diet here.

sorry for the attitude i've given. getting over pneumonia currently, and kinda tired of the negative people surrounding my life atm...lots of negativity around me lately.

which often breeds negativity in return. which i know isnt a good thing.

Bold. The main idea I'm trying to get across is start being dilligent now. Weigh everything, post everything with specific macros. Even if the goal isn't cutting down for a show for some time - you need to get this lifestyle dialed in now.

Let’s start with BMR. This is your Basal Metabolic Rate. AKA – how many calories you burn each day by just sitting on your ass. In order to figure out your BMR, you need to know what your lean body mass is. In turn, you need to know what your body fat percentage is.

If you don’t know your body fat percentage, remind me to test it for you before we proceed. If you’d rather not do a caliper test, just tell me and I’ll give you a pretty good visual estimate.

With your bf % in hand, here’s the formula:

BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)

Total weight x bf % in decimal form = total bf weight

Total weight - total bf weight = total lean body mass

For example:

I am 6'1 210 lbs at 10% body fat... so I would multiply 210 by .10 (converted from percent to decimal) = 21 lbs

210 – 21 = 189 lbs lean body weight

189 / 2.2 = 86.0 lean mass in kg

370 + (21.6 x 86) = 2227.6 BMR (this is high for the average person)

Now that we have a BMR figure, we can move on to TDEE. Total Daily Energy Expenditure. This is how many calories we actually use during the day via our BMR and activities such as work, exercise and various tasks. We can figure this number out with simple math but be honest because this figure is to be the cornerstone of your diet and healthy lifestyle. We need to determine your activity level. We’ll choose from a few levels:

If you are sedentary (little or no exercise): Calorie - Calculation = BMR x 1.2
If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
If you are moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9

For example:

I train with weights 5 days for 90 minutes per week. I play hockey three times per week
for 90 minutes. I do 60 minutes of cardio training 5 times per week as well. In addition to games, I also practice my sport 3 times per week for 90 minutes. Either via skating or puck/shooting drills. All are high-intensity. I am between very and extra active. Let’s say BMR x 1.8. My TDEE is 4010.

**Nicotine** · 11-29-2010, 06:44 PM

it made this post, but put it above GB's..odd?

**Nicotine** · 11-29-2010, 06:52 PM

i weighed in right now at 242 (had a HUGE dump/piss, and today with feeling ill im only 3 meals in.... 2 behind or so... antibiotics and lack of sleep are kicking my ass this week!)

my electronic scale (which is know is not a very RELIABLE means of measuring, but it's usually off 1-2% from the past when i've been tested) says im at 17-18% (it said 17.2 one time, reweighed, said 17.9)

so

242 - 18 = 43.56

242 - 44 (rounded up) = 198

198 / 2.2 = 90kg in lean approx

370 + (44 fat x 90 lean mass) = 4330 cals.... seems high??

did i make a mistake? or am i just a fatty? :P

**gbrice75** · 11-30-2010, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Nicotine

sorry for the attitude i've given. getting over pneumonia currently, and kinda tired of the negative people surrounding my life atm...lots of negativity around me lately.

which often breeds negativity in return. which i know isnt a good thing.

I'm so glad you posted this... I was about to explode because I just couldn't understand the 'chip on your shoulder'. You've obviously been on this board for a while and know how things work around here. Anyway, let's all squash it and move on.

You most definitely don't need my help what with FG and Damien advising you. These guys will get you on track for sure. That said, i'll continue to monitor your thread and if I feel I can add in any way, i'll chime in for sure. =)

PS - feel better bro

**Damienm05** · 11-30-2010, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Nicotine

i weighed in right now at 242 (had a HUGE dump/piss, and today with feeling ill im only 3 meals in.... 2 behind or so... antibiotics and lack of sleep are kicking my ass this week!)

my electronic scale (which is know is not a very RELIABLE means of measuring, but it's usually off 1-2% from the past when i've been tested) says im at 17-18% (it said 17.2 one time, reweighed, said 17.9)

so

242 - 18 = 43.56

242 - 44 (rounded up) = 198

198 / 2.2 = 90kg in lean approx

370 + (44 fat x 90 lean mass) = 4330 cals.... seems high??

did i make a mistake? or am i just a fatty? :P Nah, you're a big dude but see below.

We've found that it usually comes out high and regardless, it's always best to side with caution and assume lower. Assume 4000 for now and gauge progress in 2 weeks. Based on 4000 calories:

400g protein, 350g carbs, 100g fat + 12 fish oil capsules taken with meals throughout the day.

Example:

AM empty stomach: 60 min Low intensity cardio

Meal 1: 2 whole eggs, 8 whites, 1.5 cup oats - pro/high carb

meal 2: 8 oz. chicken breast, 1 cup brown rice, veggies - pro/carb

meal 3: 6 oz. salmon, 1/2 cup lentils - fatty protein/mod carb

meal 4: 2 medium tilapia filets, 30 almonds, veggies - pro/fat

meal 5: 8 oz. chicken breast, 1 cup brown rice - pro/carb

meal 6: 8 oz. lean ground beef, 2 sweet potatoes - pro/high carb

Workout - 15-20 mins HIIT PWO

meal PWO: 2 scoops whey, 1/2 cup oats - pwo recovery/mod carb

Meal 7/45 minutes after PWO, before bed: 8 oz. lean steak, 1 tbsp olive oil, veggies. - before bed, pro/fat

**Nicotine** · 11-30-2010, 01:28 PM

im allergic to almonds :P

can i swap em out for peanuts?

the rice, 1 cup dry or cooked?

and of course i know im not a pro...but is that too many carbs for contest cutting?

the 15-20 mins HIIT PWO, cardio?

**Damienm05** · 11-30-2010, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Nicotine

im allergic to almonds :P

can i swap em out for peanuts? Walnuts or cashews are better but yes. Also, a tablespoon of a good oil would work - these are all just sample meals and it's only approximate.

the rice, 1 cup dry or cooked? Cooked but again, it's a sample - a cup of raw oats, a cup of mashed sweet potato - whatever just 50-60g complex carbs.

and of course i know im not a pro...but is that too many carbs for contest cutting? Trial and error my man - provided you're not cheating and measuring things right, a dude your size doing cardio daily should cut just fine on 300g. Everyone who was once fat (myself included) always thinks carbs are the devil at first but really, we got fat eating doughnuts, not oats. Insulin spikes are a funny thing. THAT SAID HOWEVER - I'm not a pro, just a trainer and a diet guy - you'll need to talk to Fireguy or someone about cycling carbs, manipulating water levels and such as you get closer in.

the 15-20 mins HIIT PWO, cardio? Yes. High intensity. It'll keep the water weight off and do wonders for your progress without having to cut more calories .

Bold. Please remember the diet was just a sample and I did half-assed math in my head. Plenty of other options in terms of food choices.

**Nicotine** · 11-30-2010, 04:59 PM

yep, i know it's just a general outline. i setup my elliptical infront of my TV for my empty stomach cardio...... time to whore HD tv episodes and movies on the projector. LOL

the HIIT i'm gonna have to do at the gym..all i have at home is a nice elliptical, no treadmill....

i wanna compete, to further understand my body, how it works, learn whats best for me....if i come in at a decent spot, bonus..but...

we'll see.

**Damienm05** · 12-01-2010, 03:00 AM

The elliptical will do. I don't practice what I preach, as I own an elliptical and do the exact same thing at home. In fact, I just got off mine 10 minutes ago. I did 90 minutes while watching DVR'd episodes of "Boardwalk Empire" and "Dexter" - Cardio ain't no thing at this point lol.

**Nicotine** · 12-01-2010, 05:15 AM

im all caught up on dexter... :P

but even with the cardio, is the carb content of the outline example posted a touch too high? it seems more than im taking in now, and im gaining weight like a freak.

***FireGuy*** · 12-01-2010, 11:57 AM

Damien has you at a good starting point. With the extra cardio it should be close. At some point the carbs and/or fats are going to have to be reduced fairly significantly. If you are not averaging 1.5-2lbs a week weight loss you are going to need to adjust.

**Nicotine** · 12-01-2010, 01:12 PM

thanks for the input. seems pretty straight forward for the beginning. i know it wont be as i go...all part of the learning process!!

would i drop carbs a bit first BEFORE the fats? or both equally?

**Damienm05** · 12-02-2010, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by Nicotine

thanks for the input. seems pretty straight forward for the beginning. i know it wont be as i go...all part of the learning process!!

would i drop carbs a bit first BEFORE the fats? or both equally?

I'd reduce calories via fat first (of course, you shouldn't ever let it drop below 75g or so, 12g of which should be Omega-3).

Reduce carbs obviously as you get closer in or consider cycling them. With a high activity level and a lot of lean mass, you don't have to fear them beyond calories in/out - I promise. The water retention a high carb diet brings however, is an issue - but not yet.