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12-05-2010, 01:25 PM #1
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Can a Diet expert answer some questions??
Can a diet expert please look at this to make sure that I’m tracking. I’m trying to figure out my BMR, TDEE, and what I need to eat on certain days of my workouts and off days. Here are my stats:
Started about Oct 15th:
6'0"
235lbs
28%BF
39yo
Today
228lbs
27% BF
I lost 7 lbs, added 1/2 on arms; 1" on chest; and lost an 1" on waist.
Currently I go to the gym 6 days a week, 3 on 1 off. When I lift, I lift heavy with 4 to 5 sets of 10-4 reps. I don’t do legs because my knees can’t take the stress of weightlifting. My schedule is:
Chest/Tri’s
Back/Bi’s
Shoulders
Off
Repeat.
I do cardio 6 days a week. Sometime I will do it 2xs a day. I walk on the treadmill at an incline and maintain a 60-70%THR to maximize fat burning. I do this from 40-60 mins each session. I always do fasted cardio 1st thing in the morning(0500), and if I do a second session, it will be 1 hr after dinner. I still have the Casein shake prior to bedtime on lifting days.
My main goal is to drop body fat. Goal is 15-17%. Then I’m going to hit a mass cycle and try to put on about 15 to 20 lbs of Muscle, then do a hard cutting cycle and end up at around 12%bf. I’m currently tring to get this diet thing worked out. I have found my BMR, and my TDEE: My math is correct so I don't expect you to do my math. Just wanted you to see how I did it.
6’0” 228 lbs at 27% body fat... so I would multiply 228 by .27 (converted from percent to decimal) = 62 lbs of Body fat
228-62 = 166 lbs lean body weight
166 / 2.2 = 75.5kg of lean mass
370 + (21.6 x 75.5) = 2000.8 BMR
1. According to the TDEE formula, I need to figure out what my activity level is. I chose 1.725 because of my above listed workout. Did I select the right one?
§ If you are sedentary (little or no exercise): Calorie - Calculation = BMR x 1.2
§ If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
§ If you are moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
§ If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
§ If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training): Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.
So my so my TDEE is BMRx1.725 which is: 2000.8x1.725 = 3451.8
2. This means at my current body weight and my current activity level, I need to consume 3451.8 Cals to maintain my current body weight correct?
3. To lose weight(cut bodyfat)I need to drop 500-1000 cals from this for a total of 2451.8 to 2951.8 cals a day. Is this correct?
4. What about off days, do I only eat the BMR cal of 2000.8, or do I cut some cals on that day too?
I joined a website to track my daily food intake and I can also add in all of my workouts and it tells me how many cals each day I need to consume to lose weight according to my activities (daily burn dot com). The other day I did a chest/tri workout and it told me that I need to consume between 4506-5105 cals for that day. That sounds like I’m on a BB’s MASS plan.
I have been eating very clean 3 meals a day with a morning and afternoon snack, and a bedtime casein shake. Since I have been eating so good, my appetite has gone down the tube. When I ate shitty, I would eat, and I mean Overeat….and an hour later I was starving again. I can’t do that anymore.
5. Has my metabolism shutdown?
I try to eat 2 to 3 chicken breasts, or baked fish for each meal, along with veggies. I only eat carbs (Whole grain breads, oatmeal) for breakfast after cardio and lunch because I go to the gym at 2pm. Sometimes I’ll eat Turkey meatloaf for lunch and two servings of that have 25.8 carbs. I will also add a salad (Turkey breast meat with lettuce and fat free dressing for taste). I also get carbs from my PWO shake and some from my bedtime Casein shake. I only drink water. No fruits, no sugar, but I just can’t do it anymore. I’t is very difficult for me to reach 2000 cals each day. Anyone have any Idea whats wrong with my appetite?
Todays Meals: I tried something different today to see if I could eat more so I threw in some more Cals and Carbs in my afternoon snack. That didn't work.
= 1562cals, 28.3g Fat, 132g carbs178.5g Pro
Breakfast
Roundy's Apples and Cinnamon Oatmeal
130 cal 1.5g fat 26g carbs 3g pro
Morning snack
Muscle Milk Strawberries and Cream
0.5 servings of 2 scoops
150 cal 6g fat 8g carbs 16g pro
Lunch
Chicken Breast
2 servings of 4 oz
260 cal 2g fat 0g carbs 54g pro
Seasoned White Turkey Chunks
1 serving
70 cal 1.5g fat 0g carbs 15g pro
Afternoon Snack
Wide Egg Noodle
220 cal 3g fat 40g carbs 8g pro
Beef Tips
360 cal 10.5g fat 19.5g carbs 40.5g pro
Dinner
Pinto Beans
55 cal 0g fat 10g carbs 35g pro
FAT FREE ITALIAN DRESSING
12 cal 0g fat 2.5g carbs 0g pro
Wheat Bread
2 slices
140 cal 2g fat 26g carbs 4g pro
Seasoned White Turkey Chunks
½ serving
35 cal 0.8g fat 0g carbs 7.5g pro
Chicken Breast
1 serving of 4 oz
130 cal 1g fat 0g carbs 27g proLast edited by JoeC6Z51; 12-05-2010 at 02:21 PM.
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12-05-2010, 02:42 PM #2
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Hey bro, sounds like alot of what you're doing is solid. I can see you put alot of time into this and I don't want to piss on your parade, but I often find the TDEE formula's come out on the high end, and people wind up overeating.
Originally Posted by JoeC6Z51
A much simpler way (far from scientific, but gives you a good starting point to adjust from) is LBM x 15 = maintenance calories/TDEE. So for you, based on your stats, that would be about 170lbs of LBM x 15 = 2550. MUCH lower then what you came up with using the formulas, and I bet it's closer to your maintenance. Now, you mentioned dropping 500-1000 calories to cut - not sure where you heard that from, but NEVER go below 500. You will most definitely slow your metabolism and burn LBM, while holding on to existing fat and even store NEW fat. Not good. You should read the little article I wrote up in the diet section - titled 'calories in calories out... but not quite' - this might help you understand better.
As for your diet - well, that's not so great. Actually, it needs to be totally scrapped. You should have:
a lean protein source in every meal
a complex carb OR healthy fat in every meal (I like to keep carbs in the 1st half of the day and pre/pwo, fats in the 2nd half)
Lots of leafy green/fiberous veggies - as much as you can eat
Use the info below (courtesy of Damienm05) to educate yourself on proper diet and nutrition. Then come back and post up a good diet, we'll help you sort it from there. Pls list time of day for each meal next time, and where the workout fits into the schedule.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
I love analogies. Let’s use a good one. Think of your perfect body as a house that you must build. You’ve figured out your BMR and TDEE, so you know the exact specs of the property you have to work with. You know how exercise affects weight loss and how much of a caloric deficit/surplus we must create to lose/gain said weight; so you know how to build - you understand architecture. You also know the pace you intend on losing/gaining weight at based on these other factors, so you know it will be harder to get your house built in weeks as opposed to months. The only thing left is the tools/building material you must use and because you don’t know how to eat, you still can’t build anything. At least, not well. Sure, you can starve yourself for a few months but you’ll just gain all the weight back in a couple weeks of binge drinking and shitty eating on a vacation – you’re house will fall down!
So, let’s talk tools baby. Let’s talk food. First off, there are only 3 types of foods/macronutrients. Protein. Carbohydrates. Fat. That’s it.
Protein – 4 calories per gram - Building material. Bricks. You can’t gain energy from protein, you can only use it to build muscle/skin/hair/nails. It’s basically just amino acids and it’s what our bodies are made of. As such, we need lots of it. 1g of protein per body lb is a good number to shoot for . Go as high as 2g per body lb if you’re lifting weights and trying to build muscle. For example, I am 207 lbs and I eat between 300-400 grams per day. Our body can only break down so much at one time however, so we want to eat 20-40 grams of protein in every meal, several times per day. Protein, being building material only and not energy/labor – the body can rarely find a reason for it to be stored as fat. If you must over-eat – make it lean meat/fish.
Carbs – 4 calories per gram - Think of these as human labor for your house. Think of sugar as dudes you pick up out front of home depot and oatmeal as a skilled carpenter. Both are carbs, both serve very different purposes. Carbs help transport essential nutrients to the muscles, create glycogen stores, and as such, increase protein synthesis but do not build muscle; they are simply an energy source. As such, they should only be eaten/used when we need energy. Any carbs we ingest before bed or before watching a movie, or something sedentary are not used as energy, and as such, are more likely to be stored in the body as glycogen (glucose/water in our muscles that we will use when doing high-intensity exercise). Once our glycogen reserves are full, they will spill over and be stored as fat. Yes, they will make you fat. Carbs can be your best friend or your worst enemy.
Fats – 9 calories per gram - Like carbs, fats are an energy source, not a building material like protein. They provide nowhere near as much energy as carbs however. Ask anyone who's on a ketogenic diet. With regard to our house, think of fats as the glue/cement. They provide much needed essential fatty acids, which are great for joint/organ health and increase our protein synthesis. Going back to our analogy, cement/glue increases the effectiveness of bricks! If we give our bodies the right fats, it will be able to burn stored body fat quickly as it won’t see any use in keeping it. Remember, like carbs – not all fat is good and ALL fat is high in calories so watch out. A tablespoon of peanut butter can be a good addition to a meal. Snacking on 5-6 tablespoons, however, means you’ve just eaten over your TDEE for the day.
Acceptable proteins for your healthy lifestyle diet:
The goal is to eat lean protein. Meats/other sources low in fat/carbs.
§ Ground beef (93% lean or better)
§ Lean steak (Flank, flat iron, or top sirloin)
§ Bison sirloin (the highest quality red meat)
§ Chicken breast
§ Turkey breast
§ Tuna (canned or sushi grade)
§ Salmon
§ Tilapia (mostly all white fish)
§ All shellfish
§ Venison
§ Whey protein (post-workout recovery purposes only)
§ Casein/Cottage cheese (before bed only)
Black-List Protein sources. Do not eat these because they are high in fat. And not the
good kind we find in nuts and olive oil – I’m talking about cholesterol raising saturated
fat!
§ Bacon
§ Sausage
§ Expensive fat-marbled Steaks (Ribeye, Strip, Filet)
§ Pork and beef ribs
§ Pork/Lamb chops
§ Restaurant ground beef (80/20 fat – most burgers)
§ Duck
§ Chicken legs/thighs
§ Chicken skin
§ Cheese
Acceptable Carbs for your healthy lifestlyle:
Complex carbs are now your creed. These are slower-digesting, natural, low on the glycemic index carbohydrates that digest slowly and provide us with sustained energy. They do not drastically affect our blood sugar and do not cause insulin spikes. Thus our body sees no reason to store them as fat, it would rather burn them for energy. Simple carbs such as enriched white breads/pastas/rice/potatoes/sugars (including most fruit) cause insulin spikes and are high GI foods. They should not be eaten when on a strict diet. Fruit can be consumed early in the day or pre/post-workout because of it’s high nutritional value but should usually be avoided due to being a form of simple sugar. Remember, healthy, low-calorie foods aren’t always the correct foods and such is the case with fruit.
§ Oats/Oatmeal
§ Grits/Cornmeal
§ Unsalted/non-buttered popcorn (great, low-cal snack)
§ Sweet potato (the best choice)
§ Butternut squash
§ Whole wheat pasta (not enriched)
§ Organic whole wheat bread (not enriched wonder bread crap)
§ Brown rice
§ Ezekiel bread
§ Swedish grain bread
§ Gluten free bread
§ Wheat couscous
§ Corn
§ Quinoa
§ Lentils
§ Beans
§ Many more, look up the GI (glycemic index) for healthy choices
Black List:
§ White pasta
§ White bread
§ Baguette
§ Bagels
§ Cookies, cake, muffins, cupcakes, all sweets basically.
§ White couscous
§ White rice
§ You get the idea…
Don’t get discouraged upon reading this list. I still make desserts all the time with whole
grain flour and splenda. I buy bagels and baguettes at the health food store that use
complex carbs as a base. If you’re dedicated, you don’t have to miss out 100%
Acceptable fats for your healthy lifestyle:
We look for fat sources that are high in omega-3, 6, and 9 fatty acids. Also, many are high in protein. We do not want saturated fats such as butter, cream, meat fat. We don’t want test tube fats like trans (the worst). We want mono/polyunsaturated fats that our body can use for something other than calories. Remember, even good fats are high in calories.
§ Natural peanut butter (no sugar added, just roasted peanuts)
§ Natural almond butter
§ Cashews
§ Almonds
§ Peanuts
§ Flax seeds
§ Flax seed oil
§ Salmon and Trout (great fatty proteins)
§ Fish oil
§ Extra virgin olive oil (should be used on all veggies/salads)
§ Chia seeds
§ Grapeseed oil
§ Macadamia nut oil
Acceptable miscellaneous foods:
These foods don’t provide much as far as macronutrients but are great for adding vitamins/minerals and taste. Notice some of these other foods are dairy. Dairy is another animal’s milk. We lack the enzymes to digest it as they do and it’s high in fat/sugar. It should only be eaten early in the day for nutrient purposes with the exception of whey and casein (cottage cheese).
§ Skim milk (Hood brand is only 45 calories and 3g of sugar per cup)
§ Greek yogurt (no sugar added)
§ Berries (all berries are much lower in sugar than other fruits and packed with fiber/nutrients – eat berries)
§ Green Vegetables. These are technically carbs but they are packed with fiber (a type of carb that isn’t used as energy or stored). In bodybuilding/nutrition – we refer to most vegetables as fibrous carbohydrates. While a serving of Broccoli may have 6g of carbs, 5 are from fiber. Meaning that it contains only 1g of storable carbohydrates. In addition, green vegetables are a calorie neutral/negative food (our body uses more calories to digest them than they contain – think celery). Veggies should be eaten with every meal. Every day. If you do this, you can become almost impervious to getting sick. Some vegetables are better than others for healthy diets.
§ Many non-green vegetables. Most are fine – just check labels, some have a good bit of sugar and should be eaten in moderation only (carrots)
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12-05-2010, 11:59 PM #3
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....................A much simpler way (far from scientific, but gives you a good starting point to adjust from) is LBM x 15 = maintenance calories/TDEE. So for you, based on your stats, that would be about 170lbs of LBM x 15 = 2550. MUCH lower then what you came up with using the formulas, and I bet it's closer to your maintenance. Now, you mentioned dropping 500-1000 calories to cut - not sure where you heard that from, but NEVER go below 500.
So you are saying that I need 2550 to mantain, and cut 500 out to lose weight so every day I should be eating 2050 cals regardless if it's an off day or heavy workout day (cardio:am, Chest/tris:2pm, cardio8pm).
As for your diet - well, that's not so great. Actually, it needs to be totally scrapped. You should have:
a lean protein source in every meal....I eat chicken and fish for luch and dinner, the only protien availble to me in the morning is Eggs. I will start going back to the eggs.
a complex carb OR healthy fat in every meal (I like to keep carbs in the 1st half of the day and pre/pwo, fats in the 2nd half)
Lots of leafy green/fiberous veggies - as much as you can eat.......Yea, I eat Broccoli and mixed veggies with my meal. I didn't list the because I don't input them as calories when counting. I didn't think I was supposed too. Do I count the Green veggies in my Toyal Cal count?
Also a question about the protien thing....If the body can only process between 20-40gms of protien at one time, then for somene to get 300-400gms of protien, they would have to consume 20-40gms 10 to 15 times a day. How do you workout, work, sleep, have sex with your woman, play with your kids..............seems like no one has the time to consistantly consume protien at this rate. Am I wasting my time eating 2 chicken breast @27gms of protien each, or 2 pieces of fish@30gms each? Also I have a protien shake that 1 Serving is 52gms of protien....do I scrap that too?
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12-06-2010, 07:52 PM #4
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I'm saying that 2500 is a good starting point as far as your maintenance goes. Cut 500 MAX (I wouldn't drop back that much though, i'd go no more then 300 and let cardio do the rest) to get into a deficit.
Plenty of people calorie cycle based on on/off days. I don't bother - at least not on purpose. My PWO meal alone is 50g whey and 50g oats - that's 400 calories. By not eating that on off days, i'm automatically eating less.
To answer your last question - who said the body can only process 20-40g protein at one time? That's complete horsesh!t. I'm not saying you can dump 100+ grams in at once, but the body most certainly handle more then 40g. Obviously, the more meals you eat in a day, the better off. Some bodybuilders eat as often as every hour. For normal people like us, that's not practical. However, I wouldn't go more then 3 hours ever. 2.5 is perfect IMO. In a normal day, you should be able to get 6-7 meals in. Keep in mind on a 2000 or even 2500 calorie diet, you will never need to consume 400g protein. 300 would be about the max, anything more would be waste or even potentially stored as fat (yes it's possible). 6 meals x 50g = 300g. Not so bad. =)
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12-07-2010, 04:31 AM #5
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It's in the Post you gave me to read above. Originally Posted by gbrice75
So, let’s talk tools baby. Let’s talk food. First off, there are only 3 types of foods/macronutrients. Protein. Carbohydrates. Fat. That’s it.
Protein – 4 calories per gram - Building material. Bricks. You can’t gain energy from protein, you can only use it to build muscle/skin/hair/nails. It’s basically just amino acids and it’s what our bodies are made of. As such, we need lots of it. 1g of protein per body lb is a good number to shoot for . Go as high as 2g per body lb if you’re lifting weights and trying to build muscle. For example, I am 207 lbs and I eat between 300-400 grams per day. Our body can only break down so much at one time however, so we want to eat 20-40 grams of protein in every meal, several times per day. Protein, being building material only and not energy/labor – the body can rarely find a reason for it to be stored as fat. If you must over-eat – make it lean meat/fish.
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12-07-2010, 08:30 AM #6
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Yeah, I have a new draft of that document written up and saved on a new thread that has edited that portion. It now says, that this is the conventional wisdom but that in an anabolic state, etc, etc -
The original was written some time ago when I believed that.
40g is a good number to shoot for but don't think it's wasted if you take in more.Last edited by Damienm05; 12-07-2010 at 08:33 AM.
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12-07-2010, 09:19 AM #7
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My bad Joe, that's a bit misleading! It's not stating that the body can ONLY handle up to 40g, but it doesn't specify a limit (that's because there is no undisputed answer to this) so as Damien said, depending on your caloric requirements, 40g/day across all meals is usually sufficient for most people. Originally Posted by JoeC6Z51
Sorry for any confusion!
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12-07-2010, 09:36 AM #8
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12-07-2010, 10:26 AM #9
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Omfg! Where has this guy been??!! Originally Posted by Narkissos
What's good Nark?
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12-07-2010, 04:33 PM #10
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Most people need 20-40 grams of protein per meal per day. Overweight protein is not that big of a deal. However, watch the fat content of your protein sources.
2500 sounds like a good start. 2200 to lose weight and add cardio. You could probably do 2000 without much of a loss in lbm at all.
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12-16-2010, 08:46 PM #11
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Man it's been a tough year... I'm back now though. Originally Posted by gbrice75
Time to kick some people in the right direction
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12-16-2010, 10:29 PM #12
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Nark Originally Posted by Narkissos
Man it's been a tough year... I'm back now though.
Time to kick some people in the right direction
Havnt hear much from you since i joined but looking forward to having you help out in the diet section
Are you going to be getting involved in the remote trainer challenge at all?
Judge, coach.....
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12-17-2010, 05:37 AM #13
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12-17-2010, 03:00 PM #14
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I need a kicking.... =) Originally Posted by Narkissos
Man it's been a tough year... I'm back now though.
Time to kick some people in the right direction
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