Anyone know why this isn't working?

**tsidriver** · 02-03-2011, 01:53 PM

Hey all -

I have been on the below diet for ~4 mos. I went in weighing 210 and I dropped 10 lbs. right off the bat (first month or less). Since then I haven't lost ANYTHING!

Current stats:

Height: 6'2
Weight: 200lbs.
Age: 31
Bodyfat: ~12%, maybe less
BMR: 2041
TDEE: 3163 (conservative?)

Training:

I work out 7 days a week 45-60 min moderate HR cardio (~130 bpm) in the morning on an empty stomach. Then M-F I either do another 45-60 min of moderate HR cardio in the evening, or I play volleyball in a competitive league for an hour. I don't do the cardio on nights I play (2x/wk). I do the double cardio on the other 3 days.

To top this all off, I have been running Clen for the last month. I'm doing a 6 week on cycle with Keto the last 4 weeks. I am currently maxed at a dosage of 200mcg/day (I know this is high, but I can handle the sides).

I can't figure out for the life of me how I am not dropping weight? You'll see in my diet below that I am at a pretty big caloric deficit, and I exercise all the time.
Does anybody have any ideas on what I could be doing wrong or things I can/should change? Any help is appreciated!

Diet:

Meal 1 7:30a Pro/Carb/Fat/Cal
Pro/Carb

1c egg whites + 2 whole eggs + veggies 38g/2g/10g/300
1/2c oats 5g/27g/3g/150
1/2c blueberries 0g/9g/0g/36
1/4c sugar free maple syrup 0g/11g/0g/35

Totals: 43g/49g/13g/520
(The macros don't quite add up here, which throws off the totals at the end. I just guesstimated for the veggies I put in my eggs. I use green,red,yellow, and orange peppers, mushrooms, and onions sauteed in some olive oil. Garlic powder and some salt & pepper. I added 50 cals/serving for all of that which is probably high as I don't use that much in total.)

Meal 2 10a
Pro

Protein Shake 40g/4g/1g/185

Totals: 40g/4g/1g/185

Meal 3 12:30p
Pro/Veg/Carb

4 oz. Chicken Breast 22g/0g/3g/115
1 1/2c (prep) Broccoli 3g/6g/0g/45
1/4c (uncooked) brown rice 3g/32g/1g/149

Totals: 28g/38g/4g/309

Meal 4 4:30 p
Carb

1/2c oats 5g/27g/3g/150
1/2c blueberries 0g/9g/0g/35
1/4c sugar free maple syrup 0g/11g/0g/35

Totals: 5g/47g/3g/220

Meal 5 7:30p
Pro/Veg/Carb

4 oz. Tilapia 23g/0g/2g/110
1 1/2c (prep) Broccoli 3g/6g/0g/45
1/4c (uncooked) brown rice 3g/32g/1g/149

Totals: 29g/38g/3g/304

Meal 6 9p
Pro/Fat

Casein shake 23g/4g/1g/117
2 Tbsp. Natty PB 7g/7g/16g/190

Totals: 30g/11g/17g/307

Grand totals: 175g/187g/41g/1845

Now - I do have a cheat meal once a week, but I do make healthy choices while doing so. My cheat meal is not fast food or anything crazy. I will go out to eat and get pasta, or buffalo wild wings or something. Most of the time I feel like I'm not cheating enough. I also occasionally will snack on some random things inbetween meals if I am feeling a little more hungry. This would be a few peanuts, or crackers or something. It may not be the best thing, but the amount I have is not very much. I realize I have to count this stuff too, but even if you add another 200 cals onto my diet to account for this, that puts me just over 2000 calories. Almost a 1200 calorie deficit for my moderate TDEE.

The diet started out with more in it, as I had included a PWO meal, however I'm not weight training right now, so no need. I have additionally started to shave off calories because I wasn't losing anymore weight, trying to adjust to where it would work. I'm just at wits end now, and I'm not sure what to do, so could use some help and advice.

Fire away - and thanks for reading!

**MBMETC** · 02-03-2011, 02:50 PM

how old are you i dont think you have your bmr and tdee correct
unless your like 18

**Damienm05** · 02-03-2011, 02:54 PM

There are issues with your diet but you should still be losing weight. Even if your TDEE is lower than you think, you should still be at a large deficit with all that cardio.
For starter's, no more cheating. "I don't think I'm cheating enough" is an asinine statement. You should never cheat ideally. Pasta and Buffalo Wild Wings isn't fast food but that only means it's less-processed, not any healthier with regard to fat loss necessarily. A 2000 calorie cheat meal will negate a day or two of dieting, don't let idiots who want to believe it won't convince you otherwise.

Now, beyond that, I see a carb only and a protein only meal. Combine them and run a 5 meal diet for a week with no cheat meal. Now, I'm about to say some things that may explain your lack of progress but before I do, I need you to be completely honest with us. Even with the cheating and poor diet structure, you should still be losing fat. Are you giving us your gentlemen's promise that what you have listed above is really your diet? Think critically here man, it's important. Is your peanut butter serving really what you think it is or are you measuring loosely with a big spoon and possibly consuming more? Are your protein portions what you think they are because you use a scale or are you possibly eating a lot more? Are you ever snacking on mixed nuts or something between meals and not factoring them in? All of the above can lead to no progress.

Now, if you're measuring, here's why you're not making progress or at least, think that you're not:

1 - You just started lifting properly recently and are gaining muscle.

2- You have Hypothyroidism

3- You're putting too much emphasis on the scale. You're weighing yourself the day after eating Buffalo Wings and holding water or just at the wrong times in general. Take pictures in the mirror and compare them to the week before. Scales are for food.

4- I doubt it but your body may be in starvation mode from being in a deficit that could be around 2000. If this is the case, your body will hoard every extra calorie you get from these cheat meals. In general though, I think "starvation mode" is overblown - calories in v. calories out.

That's it. Figure out where you stand. It's not rocket science.

**tsidriver** · 02-03-2011, 02:59 PM

I'm 31. I get the same BMR number using the formula and plugging it into an online calculator. 2041. TDEE is 1.55xBMR=3165

**cerealkiller326** · 02-03-2011, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by tsidriver

Hey all -

I have been on the below diet for ~4 mos. I went in weighing 210 and I dropped 10 lbs. right off the bat (first month or less). Since then I haven't lost ANYTHING!

Current stats:

Height: 6'2
Weight: 200lbs.
Age: 31
Bodyfat: ~12%, maybe less
BMR: 2041
TDEE: 3163 (conservative?)

Training:

I work out 7 days a week 45-60 min moderate HR cardio (~130 bpm) in the morning on an empty stomach. Then M-F I either do another 45-60 min of moderate HR cardio in the evening, or I play volleyball in a competitive league for an hour. I don't do the cardio on nights I play (2x/wk). I do the double cardio on the other 3 days.

To top this all off, I have been running Clen for the last month. I'm doing a 6 week on cycle with Keto the last 4 weeks. I am currently maxed at a dosage of 200mcg/day (I know this is high, but I can handle the sides).

I can't figure out for the life of me how I am not dropping weight? You'll see in my diet below that I am at a pretty big caloric deficit, and I exercise all the time.
Does anybody have any ideas on what I could be doing wrong or things I can/should change? Any help is appreciated!

Diet:

Meal 1 7:30a Pro/Carb/Fat/Cal
Pro/Carb

1c egg whites + 2 whole eggs + veggies 38g/2g/10g/300
1/2c oats 5g/27g/3g/150
1/2c blueberries 0g/9g/0g/36
1/4c sugar free maple syrup 0g/11g/0g/35
I would make this egg whites and 1 whole egg. I would also forget the sugar free maple, most of it is junk IMO, I can be wrong.
Totals: 43g/49g/13g/520
(The macros don't quite add up here, which throws off the totals at the end. I just guesstimated for the veggies I put in my eggs. I use green,red,yellow, and orange peppers, mushrooms, and onions sauteed in some olive oil. Garlic powder and some salt & pepper. I added 50 cals/serving for all of that which is probably high as I don't use that much in total.)

Meal 2 10a
Pro

Protein Shake 40g/4g/1g/185

Totals: 40g/4g/1g/185

Meal 3 12:30p
Pro/Veg/Carb

4 oz. Chicken Breast 22g/0g/3g/115
1 1/2c (prep) Broccoli 3g/6g/0g/45
1/4c (uncooked) brown rice 3g/32g/1g/149

Totals: 28g/38g/4g/309

Meal 4 4:30 p
Carb

1/2c oats 5g/27g/3g/150
1/2c blueberries 0g/9g/0g/35
1/4c sugar free maple syrup 0g/11g/0g/35
I would drop the sugar free maple syrup, and oats/blue berries. Instead I would a lean protein source and 1/2 cup brown rice.
Totals: 5g/47g/3g/220

Meal 5 7:30p
Pro/Veg/Carb

4 oz. Tilapia 23g/0g/2g/110
1 1/2c (prep) Broccoli 3g/6g/0g/45
1/4c (uncooked) brown rice 3g/32g/1g/149

Totals: 29g/38g/3g/304

Meal 6 9p
Pro/Fat

Casein shake 23g/4g/1g/117
2 Tbsp. Natty PB 7g/7g/16g/190
I would drop the Peanut Butter before bed, too much fat IMO. Your cutting so I think it can be avoided
Totals: 30g/11g/17g/307

Grand totals: 175g/187g/41g/1845

Now - I do have a cheat meal once a week, but I do make healthy choices while doing so. My cheat meal is not fast food or anything crazy. I will go out to eat and get pasta, or buffalo wild wings or something. Most of the time I feel like I'm not cheating enough. I also occasionally will snack on some random things inbetween meals if I am feeling a little more hungry. This would be a few peanuts, or crackers or something. It may not be the best thing, but the amount I have is not very much. I realize I have to count this stuff too, but even if you add another 200 cals onto my diet to account for this, that puts me just over 2000 calories. Almost a 1200 calorie deficit for my moderate TDEE.

The diet started out with more in it, as I had included a PWO meal, however I'm not weight training right now, so no need. I have additionally started to shave off calories because I wasn't losing anymore weight, trying to adjust to where it would work. I'm just at wits end now, and I'm not sure what to do, so could use some help and advice.

Fire away - and thanks for reading!

In bold is somethings I spotted, kinda zipped through it. I would increase protein intake, to fill in some of the gaps in between some meals for instance lunch and 4:30pm meal... How long have you not lifted weights for?

**cerealkiller326** · 02-03-2011, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Damienm05

There are issues with your diet but you should still be losing weight. Even if your TDEE is lower than you think, you should still be at a large deficit with all that cardio.
For starter's, no more cheating. "I don't think I'm cheating enough" is an asinine statement. You should never cheat ideally. Pasta and Buffalo Wild Wings isn't fast food but that only means it's less-processed, not any healthier with regard to fat loss necessarily. A 2000 calorie cheat meal will negate a day or two of dieting, don't let idiots who want to believe it won't convince you otherwise.

Now, beyond that, I see a carb only and a protein only meal. Combine them and run a 5 meal diet for a week with no cheat meal. Now, I'm about to say some things that may explain your lack of progress but before I do, I need you to be completely honest with us. Even with the cheating and poor diet structure, you should still be losing fat. Are you giving us your gentlemen's promise that what you have listed above is really your diet? Think critically here man, it's important. Is your peanut butter serving really what you think it is or are you measuring loosely with a big spoon and possibly consuming more? Are your protein portions what you think they are because you use a scale or are you possibly eating a lot more? Are you ever snacking on mixed nuts or something between meals and not factoring them in? All of the above can lead to no progress.

Now, if you're measuring, here's why you're not making progress or at least, think that you're not:

1 - You just started lifting properly recently and are gaining muscle.

2- You have Hypothyroidism

3- You're putting too much emphasis on the scale. You're weighing yourself the day after eating Buffalo Wings and holding water or just at the wrong times in general. Take pictures in the mirror and compare them to the week before. Scales are for food.

4- I doubt it but your body may be in starvation mode from being in a deficit that could be around 2000. If this is the case, your body will hoard every extra calorie you get from these cheat meals. In general though, I think "starvation mode" is overblown - calories in v. calories out.

That's it. Figure out where you stand. It's not rocket science.

Nicely done, forgot to mention the cheat meals. Cheat meals are allowed if your bulking, when cutting you can't afford to diminish your hard work for just one cheat meal.

**Damienm05** · 02-03-2011, 03:24 PM

Know that I'm not being hard on you man, just trying to help. When I first came to this forum and learned how to eat properly, I saw some nice fat loss the first week from water reduction but stalled quickly and actually gained some bodyfat in the following weeks. The reason: I learned about how to implement pro/fat meals and due to loose measuring, was eating way too much peanut butter, my nut handfulls were actually 2-3 servings, and I was eating steak/ground beef that wasn't lean. So despite a super-clean diet, I was actually eating too many calories even though I'd assumed I was in a deficit. Since then, I've measured everything anally and have never had issues.

So please, consider the above before the thyroid/starvation stuff.

Also, what's your lifting routine like?

**tsidriver** · 02-03-2011, 03:32 PM

Hey Damien, thanks for reading and taking the time to reply. I appreciate that.

To reply to your questions:

When I cheat I try to be smart about it. When I go to Wild Wings I have a salad. I don't remember the last time I had wings there. I don't do a 2000 calorie cheat meal. I was always told to have a cheat meal once a week to keep your self sane, confuse your body a bit, and keep your diet realistic. I know how to make healthy choices so that always factors in whenever I am choosing food. If it is incorrect to have a cheat meal I will stop. I just can't see how that would stop me from losing weight for so long. That is what I am struggling the most with.

I will combine the protein and carb meals and go 5 meals. Do you suggest I do this at the time of the earlier or the later of the two meals? Or does it not matter?

I am being honest with what I eat. That is why I added that statement at the end where I do snack on some things when I can't get a meal in on time. If I have to eat dinner late I will have a wasa cracker with some PB on it, or a few peanuts, things to that effect. Nothing horrible. I figured adding a couple hundred calories onto my intake total would be a good catch-all for that. I am pretty good at tracking macros and I don't believe the extra I take in to be over the 200 calorie mark. But if necessary I will start tracking or cut it out altogether. I understand I need to do what it takes.

The P.B. I do eye up, but I don't believe I go overboard on a tbsp, but to your point, I am not scooping it out with a measure. I do use a food scale for my protiens. I measure out the rice in a measuring cup and I guess at the broccoli. It is probably less than 1 1/2 cups but figured that was negligible as there is hardly anything in it and I like to overestimate rather than underestimate.

I am not currently lifting. My cardio is on a recumbent bike, so I am working my legs, but it's just moderate HR, so I don't think I am doing enough to bulk them.

I had bloodwork done last year checking for diabetes and had my thyroid checked. Everything came back within range.

As far as the scale goes, I actually don't weigh myself very often at all. Last night was the first time in awhile. I am with you on the scales are for food bit. I don't even care what I weigh, I just want to look how I want to look. That is my preferred judgement of progress. I hadn't weighed myself since before I started my Clen cycle until last night. I have been taking pics though and can notice a difference. I just don't understand how that could come without a reduction in weight? Especially if I'm not weight training?

As far as starvation mode, that could be a possibility. In the past I have been both bulimic and anorexic (when I was younger) and have yo-yo dieted for much of my life. I started researching and learning and asking questions and have learned a lot which has gotten me back into decent shape. In high school I was as thin as 145 lbs. and my body had eaten most of my muscle. I have gained a lot of that back and I consider myself to be at a "normal" level now. But considering what I have put my body through in the past, it could be reacting negatively somehow to that much of a deficit. I'm just not sure.

Thanks again for your time to read this and reply and help out. I know how time consuming that is and committing your time and knowledge to help someone else often goes overlooked and is taken for granted. I hope I answered your questions adequately and please reply back if you need more info.

**Damienm05** · 02-03-2011, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by tsidriver

Hey Damien, thanks for reading and taking the time to reply. I appreciate that.

To reply to your questions:

When I cheat I try to be smart about it. When I go to Wild Wings I have a salad. I don't remember the last time I had wings there. I don't do a 2000 calorie cheat meal. I was always told to have a cheat meal once a week to keep your self sane, confuse your body a bit, and keep your diet realistic. I know how to make healthy choices so that always factors in whenever I am choosing food. If it is incorrect to have a cheat meal I will stop. I just can't see how that would stop me from losing weight for so long. That is what I am struggling the most with. Good to know but I paid my way through my undergrad working in restaurants as a chef/bartender - most restaurant salads are well upwards of 1000 calories, I promise you. Not to say it isn't a good, clean cheat meal compared to what I see other guys doing but if you're concerned about a lack of progress, the best thing you can do is stop.

I will combine the protein and carb meals and go 5 meals. Do you suggest I do this at the time of the earlier or the later of the two meals? Or does it not matter? I'd just restructure the diet so that you're eating every 3 hours or so, ensuring that all meals have both a protein and energy source. I was just being convenient in suggesting 5 meals. 6 would be better but without increasing calories or having meals with only one macro nutrient.

I am being honest with what I eat. That is why I added that statement at the end where I do snack on some things when I can't get a meal in on time. If I have to eat dinner late I will have a wasa cracker with some PB on it, or a few peanuts, things to that effect. Nothing horrible. I figured adding a couple hundred calories onto my intake total would be a good catch-all for that. I am pretty good at tracking macros and I don't believe the extra I take in to be over the 200 calorie mark. But if necessary I will start tracking or cut it out altogether. I understand I need to do what it takes. Track everything. You seem dedicated, I know you can handle it. Just don't eat anything if it's not part of your meal plan. If you have to snack on something when you can't get a meal in, that's fine but have a plan. For example, if I know I'll be stuck somewhere all day, I pack a lunch-box with some chicken breasts. Wasa crackers and peanut butter are clean but carb/fat snacks should be avoided.

The P.B. I do eye up, but I don't believe I go overboard on a tbsp, but to your point, I am not scooping it out with a measure. I do use a food scale for my protiens. I measure out the rice in a measuring cup and I guess at the broccoli. It is probably less than 1 1/2 cups but figured that was negligible as there is hardly anything in it and I like to overestimate rather than underestimate. have you ever measured a LEVEL tablespoon of PB? Not heaping, but level. It's not much at all. Most guys who don't measure are eating twice as much. Brocolli can be eaten indiscriminately, the more the better.

I am not currently lifting. My cardio is on a recumbent bike, so I am working my legs, but it's just moderate HR, so I don't think I am doing enough to bulk them. Lift. You burn up to 30% more calories when sedentary when you lift. Your body needs far more calories to repair muscle tissue and as such, lifting weights is top priority. Also, even at a deficit, you'll make some gains when you start back up again just due to the "shock" factor - that lean muscle will burn calories like crazy. Also, for cardio - stairmaster, stairmill is gonna be much more involved and more efficient. If you're not lifting do to injury, I'd still do what you can - legs, core, etc. Hell, you'll see noticeable results just from implementing a good leg routine.

I had bloodwork done last year checking for diabetes and had my thyroid checked. Everything came back within range.

As far as the scale goes, I actually don't weigh myself very often at all. Last night was the first time in awhile. I am with you on the scales are for food bit. I don't even care what I weigh, I just want to look how I want to look. That is my preferred judgement of progress. I hadn't weighed myself since before I started my Clen cycle until last night. I have been taking pics though and can notice a difference. I just don't understand how that could come without a reduction in weight? Especially if I'm not weight training? like I said, it's distorting. A big glass of water is over a lb. A big meal and a couple big glasses is 3 lbs. As long as you're happy with what you see in the mirror, you're good.

As far as starvation mode, that could be a possibility. In the past I have been both bulimic and anorexic (when I was younger) and have yo-yo dieted for much of my life. I started researching and learning and asking questions and have learned a lot which has gotten me back into decent shape. In high school I was as thin as 145 lbs. and my body had eaten most of my muscle. I have gained a lot of that back and I consider myself to be at a "normal" level now. But considering what I have put my body through in the past, it could be reacting negatively somehow to that much of a deficit. I'm just not sure. Good to know. You likely have a very depressed metabolism from the eating disorders. I was briefly semi-anorexic as well and it took almost a year of slowly upping calories from 1000ish to 2000ish before I could eat normally. As such, subtract 500 from your BMR before multiplying and that's a more realistic TDEE. Now, see why weight loss is slow? Add on to that, you're not lifting and possibly over-eating on non-measured nuts/PB, you're having a cheat meal, and things come into focus. You will achieve a healthy BMR again but you're gonna have to lift weights, measure dilligintly, and slowly up calories as you reach your goals.

Thanks again for your time to read this and reply and help out. I know how time consuming that is and committing your time and knowledge to help someone else often goes overlooked and is taken for granted. I hope I answered your questions adequately and please reply back if you need more info.

bold. I think we're getting somewhere.

**gbrice75** · 02-03-2011, 05:51 PM

TSI, you're in great hands. Damien's got you sorted out 100%.

**tsidriver** · 02-03-2011, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by cerealkiller326

In bold is somethings I spotted, kinda zipped through it. I would increase protein intake, to fill in some of the gaps in between some meals for instance lunch and 4:30pm meal... How long have you not lifted weights for?

I'm gonna try and rework this to 6 meals. I haven't been lifting for about 8 months. I had a nasty injury while deadlifting last year and didn't want to push things. I am almost 100% now so I would feel comfortable getting back into a routine.

**tsidriver** · 02-03-2011, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

TSI, you're in great hands. Damien's got you sorted out 100%.

Hey gbrice, thanks for dropping in. Enjoy your threads. Yeah he definitely knows his stuff. I'm looking forward to getting this sorted out and getting it implemented.

**gbrice75** · 02-03-2011, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by tsidriver

Hey gbrice, thanks for dropping in. Enjoy your threads. Yeah he definitely knows his stuff. I'm looking forward to getting this sorted out and getting it implemented.

Thank you brotha! I'll be following your progress. Get pics up asap! =)

**tsidriver** · 02-03-2011, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by cerealkiller326

I'd just restructure the diet so that you're eating every 3 hours or so, ensuring that all meals have both a protein and energy source. I was just being convenient in suggesting 5 meals. 6 would be better but without increasing calories or having meals with only one macro nutrient.

I will rework this and post it up. So just to be clear the general consensus is that the intake calorie amounts I have posted are where I should be at? After combining meals 2 and 4, just wondering what/how much to take out of other meals to make that extra meal? I can gain some calories following Cerealkiller's suggestions by taking out the syrup, dropping an egg, etc. About the P.B., I was also always told that you needed fat in your diet, even if cutting. That's the first thing I'd like to get rid because of the higher calorie concentration, but I have been told on this forum even, that it's needed. Not a problem to cut it out though.

**cerealkiller326** · 02-04-2011, 08:32 AM

When I meant drop I meant reduce the PB intake before bed. 1 tbsp is enough.

**tsidriver** · 02-08-2011, 01:05 PM

Ok, here is the reworked diet:

Meal 1 7:30a Pro/Carb/Fat/Cal
Pro/Carb

1c egg whites + 1 whole egg + veggies 32g/2g/5g/250
1/2c oats 5g/27g/3g/150
1/2c blueberries 0g/9g/0g/36

Totals: 37g/38g/8g/436

Meal 2 10:30a
Pro/Carb

1 5oz. can of tuna 22g/0g/2.5g/100
1/4c (uncooked) brown rice 3g/32g/1g/149

Totals: 25g/32g/3.5g/249

Meal 3 1p
Pro/Veg/Carb

4 oz. Chicken Breast 22g/0g/3g/115
1 1/2c (prep) Broccoli 3g/6g/0g/45
1/4c (uncooked) brown rice 3g/32g/1g/149

Totals: 28g/38g/4g/309

Meal 4 4:00 p
Pro/Carb

1 5oz. can of tuna 22g/0g/2.5g/100
1/2c oats 5g/27g/3g/150
1/2c blueberries 0g/9g/0g/35

Totals: 27g/36g/5.5g/285

Meal 5 7:00p
Pro/Veg/Carb

4 oz. Tilapia 23g/0g/2g/110
1 1/2c (prep) Broccoli 3g/6g/0g/45
1/4c (uncooked) brown rice 3g/32g/1g/149

Totals: 29g/38g/3g/304

Meal 6 9p
Pro/Fat

Casein shake 23g/4g/1g/117
1Tbsp. Natty PB 3.5g/3.5g/8g/95

Totals: 26.5g/7.5g/9g/212

Grand totals: 172.5g/189.5g/33g/1795

Just wondering how this one looks? I changed up the meal times as well to get them more evenly spaced.

I am also thinking I will cycle the proteins and carbs in here. All of the macros are very close and will portion them out to keep the cals the same. Here's what I have:

Lean Proteins

Fish
Tuna: 5oz. 100cal, 22g Pro, 2.5g Fat, Og Carb
Tilapia: 4oz. 100cal, 23g Pro, 2g Fat, 0g Carb
Shrimp: 3oz. 77cal, 17g Pro, 1g Fat, 0g Carb

Chicken
Skinless breast: 4oz. 120cal, 22g Pro, 3g Fat, 0g Carb

Beef
Lean or extra lean eye of round: 3oz 162cal, 23g Pro, 7g Fat, 0g Carb
96/4 ground beef: 4 oz 140 cal, 24g Pro, 4.5g fat, 0g carb
Eggs
Egg whites: ï¿½cup 60cal, 13g Pro, 0g Fat, 1g Carb
Whole Egg: 70 cal/6g Pro/5g fat/0g Carb
Turkey
Lean ground: 4oz 120cal, 26g Pro, 1.5g Fat, 0g Carb

Carbs

Oats
1/2 cup(uncooked): 150cal, 5g Pro, 3g Fat, 27g Carb

Brown Rice
ï¿½ cup(uncooked): 160cal, 4g Pro, 1.5g Fat, 35g Carb

Sweet Potato
large: 162cal, 4g Pro, 0g Fat, 37g Carb

I was also thinking I might change meal 4's protein to a protein shake. The macros for that are 40g pro/4g carb/1g fat/185 cal. Bumping my totals to 190.5g pro/193.5g carb/34g fat/1880 calories. Thoughts on this? I am going to start lifting again and possibly this meal could be my PWO meal, however that would screw with the meal times as I won't be done lifting until 6pm or so.

That brings me to my next point as well. I am going to be cycling again soon. I will have the gear this week. It's a pretty aggressive cutter. I know this is the diet section but would be nice to get your feedback on it.

Test P - 400mg/wk
Tren - 75mg/EOD
Winny - 50mg/day
Var - 50mg/day

Should I change up the diet on this cycle? I'm guessing I will have to up my protein intake and do something for PWO, so whey would probably be a good solution? Please let me know what you think of the diet and/or the cycle and thanks again for helping.

**tsidriver** · 02-08-2011, 01:20 PM

Here are some pics from when I started my clen cycle. Day 32 was last night.

**Damienm05** · 02-08-2011, 02:24 PM

Diet looks good but I'd lower carbs, especially since you're not lifting hard yet, right? When you do start lifting hard, your current carb situation is fine but protein will need to get to around 250g - I don't see you making substantial gains with such a low protein intake.

Please, don't cycle for another 8-12 weeks at least. After another month of cutting, you'll be fairly lean but I still think it would be a bad time to cycle. Why? Well, first of all because your metabolism will be depressed. After you achieve your desired body fat goal, you should eat at or above maintenance for a while while lifting to get your metabolism back into top gear. If you are patient and do this prior to your cycle, you'll be able to make nice gains while cutting. Also, I think your cycle looks way over the top man. I'm no expert so ask someone who is but I think that's a recipe for disaster. Regardless, why waste it? I mean, no gear will actually help burn fat, so why not just get lean first and then use it to pack on and keep 20 lbs. I mean, nothing wrong with a cutting cycle for a guy who's 225 lean but you simply don't need steroids to preserve muscle while cutting. Cutting on AAS sucks, I tried to do it for the last 4-weeks of my previous cycle - you just end up fixating on the bloat from the test.

**tsidriver** · 02-09-2011, 03:16 PM

Any recommendations on what to do when I start lifting? Just up the protein? I will likely start very soon. Will the extra calories be ok, and does it matter where I add it in? I will do a PWO meal with a whey shake so that will take care of some of it, but it's an 80g increase from my current total. That will also throw off my meal times. Is that a big deal? If I go to lift at 4:30, should I not eat at 4 and wait until after? I'm sure my last meal before PWO (~6p.m.) should be way back at 1 p.m. Sorry for the questions, just trying to see what you think.

I will hold off on the cycle if you think it is wise. I just need something that works. I have been struggling for a long time, not just the last 4 months of this diet. I've lifted for months in the past and not seen results, and then you run a simple test/dbol cycle and you finally make gains. It's hard to believe that I will gain anything without running something.

Thanks again for your help Damien.

**Damienm05** · 02-09-2011, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by tsidriver

Any recommendations on what to do when I start lifting? Just up the protein? I will likely start very soon. Will the extra calories be ok, and does it matter where I add it in? I will do a PWO meal with a whey shake so that will take care of some of it, but it's an 80g increase from my current total. That will also throw off my meal times. Is that a big deal? If I go to lift at 4:30, should I not eat at 4 and wait until after? I'm sure my last meal before PWO (~6p.m.) should be way back at 1 p.m. Sorry for the questions, just trying to see what you think. shoot for 1.5g of protein per lb. of lean body mass when lifting, 1g is sufficient when you're not. 250g for you would be fine. By lifting, you'll be burning a lot more calories, so yes - the extra protein calories won't negate fat loss. However, this is about you learning how to manipulate your diet by yourself ultimately, so it's on you to calculate an accurate TDEE, test it, and run with a set diet when you do pick up the weights. Assuming calories in are fewer than you're burning, you'll always be successful in cutting. AAS, stimulants, OTC supps - nothing changes the equation of burn more than you eat, lose weight. With regard to meal times, this is also on you. As long as you know the rules, you'll be fine. Basically, carbs when you need them, not when you don't. Lean protein in all meals from meat, fish, eggs. Whey PWO. Red meat, casein, or cottage cheese before bed ideally. Dietary fat in protein meals late in the day and when you don't need carbs - don't combine carbs and fat - no need. Based on these ground rules, specific meal times don't matter. Just get a good protein/carb breakfast, a good protein/carb pre-workout meal, a nice slow-digesting protein/fat before bed meal, and a solid PWO shake that should contain an energy source.

I will hold off on the cycle if you think it is wise. I just need something that works. I have been struggling for a long time, not just the last 4 months of this diet. I've lifted for months in the past and not seen results, and then you run a simple test/dbol cycle and you finally make gains. It's hard to believe that I will gain anything without running something. I promise it's wise to hold off. Steroids don't burn fat, period. Cutting cycles for the pros pre-contest are on thing but you can still lose all of your body fat and keep all of your muscle naturally. Just wait a while and then run your cycle without excess body fat holding you back and increasing your risk of side-effects. Your lack of gains in the past comes down to diet. I know guys who have never gained shit, I help them with a diet and bingo - they blow up. I don't care what you are or aren't shooting yourself up with - if you eat 300g of clean protein, 400g of clean carbs, and 75g of healthy fats every day, you will get jacked. Period.

Thanks again for your help Damien.

You're welcome. Thoughts in bold.

**gbrice75** · 02-09-2011, 06:25 PM

Props for posting pics!

Based on the pics, you don't have very far to go man. Hard dieting, even harder training and cardio, and you'll make leaps and bounds. I expect to see great strides from you!

**tsidriver** · 04-05-2011, 08:05 AM

Hey guys -

I thought I'd throw out an update in case anyone is still sub'd to this thread. Took a pic last night, not the best as it was with my phone and it was in the tanning booth, but I wanted to show everyone how you have helped me.

I decided to start my cycle. This pic was at the end of 7 weeks. I am cutting it short by a week as I'm going on vacation in 2 days. I tightened up my diet with the priceless advice of Damien and I got results that I didn't think were possible for my body.

Seriously Damien, thank you. I am indebted to you more than you know. This is a dream come true for me.

The diet is basically posted in here. I did change it a little more. I upped the protein more because I was lifting, about 250g per day. I know I could have gained more with the cycle but I was afraid to eat more as I was trying to cut. I got great results though. My next cycle will be a lean bulk. Not sure what exactly yet.

If you're curious about the cycle I started out at:

Test P: 100mg EOD
Tren : 75mg EOD
Winny: 50mg ED
Var: 50mg ED

I upped the Tren to 100mg ED after a couple weeks as I could handle it and wasn't getting any negative sides. I also upped the test to 150 mg EOD and Winny to 100mg ED. I have a 6 week PCT coming up. No gyno (not prone) while on cycle. Very good results, and I know it was an aggressive cycle.

Anyway, again thank you to everyone for your comments and help. It is beyond worth to me.

**Damienm05** · 04-05-2011, 09:03 AM

Glad to see you've benefited from my advice. Very glad.

I still would have rather you waited on that cycle births fact is, you're looking great and now that you understand nutrition, the best is yet to come.

Now, just make sure you go into nutrition overdrive for PCT and keep those gains. Never cut through PCT.