PWO carb source ?

[Gucks]

Once again, you're giving your incorrect opinion as fact. Do you do any research or reading on your own or do you just regurgitate the incorrect information that your "trainer" gives you? Last week, you say that any excess protein gets converted and stored as body fat and now fructrose is the best source for restoring muscle glycogen.

Since I already know that you won't take Lyle McDonald's word for it, per Twist's post, I'll try to explain to help you understand. It's not that fructose restores liver glycogen before muscle glycogen, it's that fructose is different than the other glucose-like sugars in that it is not a direct source of energy for the body. You cannot use fructose to restore muscle glycogen at all until it is processed by the liver and converted to glucose (or stored in the liver as glycogen if stores are low). Once it is absorbed in the intestines, it travels straight to the liver to be converted to a usable source of fuel - glucose. I'm not saying that fructose is bad, just that it is not ideal for post WO as the availability of it to be used as a fuel source is delayed while it is converted to a usable source of energy.

This is not my opinion or Twist's, or GB's, or even Lyle McDonald's - it is a fact that has already been proven. Look at any nutrition reference manual, encyclopedia Britannica, even wikipedia and you will see that it is everywhere. Try reading more and posting on subjects that you know nothing about, less.

Sorry for the rant - I'm carb depleted and this just set me off.

ok, prtein CAN be stored as fat eventually after being converted to glucose and then being converted to fat if its not needed. im not gonna argue that any more because i know im right i do my own research and no its not word-of-mouth research. i go by what my trainer tells me because it works, he gets good results. u can do it ur way and get results, i do things my way and get results, 6 or 1 half a dozen of the other. and im not saying fructose is as readily available for absorbtion as dextrose or maltodextrin but they give u TO high of an insulin spike. u want a little, not a lot. thats why fruit does the job best.

u really dont like me do u hartman..?

[FireGuy]

Gucks, you seem like a nice guy and it's apparent you mean well. That said, going around quoting "your trainer" all the time is doing very little to help your credibilty which isnt something you have a whole lot of to begin with. It was only last week you were talking about how steroids pulls your muscles apart causing more definition. Then when you got called out on it you backpedaled faster than D Revis covering a WR. You tend to make comments in tons of threads you know nothing about. Just the other day you were giving bad advice in 11Way's thread. Now you are giving stats on "your trainer" that are better than 75% of IFBB Pro's. You have an ok knowledge base on a few very basic principles of this sport and that's really about it. You have a really bad tendency to get in way over your head and start making comments on stuff you obviously know nothing about. My advice to you would be to read a lil more and type a lil less.

[Sgt. Hartman]

ok, prtein CAN be stored as fat eventually after being converted to glucose and then being converted to fat if its not needed. im not gonna argue that any more because i know im right i do my own research and no its not word-of-mouth research. i go by what my trainer tells me because it works, he gets good results. u can do it ur way and get results, i do things my way and get results, 6 or 1 half a dozen of the other. and im not saying fructose is as readily available for absorbtion as dextrose or maltodextrin but they give u TO high of an insulin spike. u want a little, not a lot. thats why fruit does the job best.

u really dont like me do u hartman..?

LOL. I don't have any problem with you personally at all - you seem like a likable young guy who obviously has a passion for BB. I just don't like it when people post an opinion or something that works for them, as a fact - especially when it's incorrect or unfounded. Alot of these guys have been studying these subjects for years (not me) and can get upset when a know-it-all 18year old starts making alot of bold statements.

I try to only comment on threads with topics that I have direct personal experiences with or have studied/researched in great detail and am sure that I'm correct. Think about it.

And like I said I'm cycling carbs and too many low carb days in a row =

[FireGuy]

LOL. I don't have any problem with you personally at all - you seem like a likable young guy who obviously has a passion for BB. I just don't like it when people post an opinion or something that works for them, as a fact - especially when it's incorrect or unfounded. Alot of these guys have been studying these subjects for years (not me) and can get upset when a know-it-all 18year old starts making alot of bold statements.

I try to only comment on threads with topics that I have direct personal experiences with or have studied/researched in great detail and am sure that I'm correct. Think about it.

And like I said I'm cycling carbs and too many low carb days in a row =

Excellent approach that more members should fall in line with.

[LatissimusaurousRex]

lol, well im going by what my trainer tells me. hes been bodybuilding for 27 years now, hes 53 with 6% bf at 5"6 215 ibs. wuld put most guys in my gym to shame :P he knows his sh!t and thts wht he says...alot of myths around BB out there!

regardless of his physique the crusty old timers can possess some antiquated BB knowledge

[FireGuy]

Here is the under 202lbs 2010 Mr Olympia, he is 5'7 and under 202lbs in this pic and probably around 4% BF. I guess it's safe to say Gucks 53 year old trainer would blow his doors off he would only have to drop to 210lbs to hit 4%. So he would be an inch shorter and carry about 10 more lbs than the reigning Mr Olympia??????
Translated-Gucks I think you are full of crap.

[LatissimusaurousRex]

Here is the under 202lbs 2010 Mr Olympia, he is 5'7 and under 202lbs in this pic and probably around 4% BF. I guess it's safe to say Gucks 53 year old trainer would blow his doors off he would only have to drop to 210lbs to hit 4%. So he would be an inch shorter and carry about 10 more lbs than the reigning Mr Olympia??????
Translated-Gucks I think you are full of crap.

Does his trainer have to be black too?

[gbrice75]

Gucks, you seem like a nice guy and it's apparent you mean well. That said, going around quoting "your trainer" all the time is doing very little to help your credibilty which isnt something you have a whole lot of to begin with. It was only last week you were talking about how steroids pulls your muscles apart causing more definition. Then when you got called out on it you backpedaled faster than D Revis covering a WR. You tend to make comments in tons of threads you know nothing about. Just the other day you were giving bad advice in 11Way's thread. Now you are giving stats on "your trainer" that are better than 75% of IFBB Pro's. You have an ok knowledge base on a few very basic principles of this sport and that's really about it. You have a really bad tendency to get in way over your head and start making comments on stuff you obviously know nothing about. My advice to you would be to read a lil more and type a lil less.

Gucks, you're getting it from the top now man... just pump the brakes for a minute, take a breath, and maybe humble down a bit. There are alot of guys here who have dedicated their lives to this sport, and no offense but at 18 years of age, I doubt you're going to be the one to change their minds.

That said, we're all about debating here, and nobody is trying to censor you. But when you're going to debate somebody, at least back it up with something. Link us to an article, some research, something!!

You're a nice guy, and I wish you the best... just don't want to see you rub the wrong people the wrong way around here...

I try to only comment on threads with topics that I have direct personal experiences with or have studied/researched in great detail and am sure that I'm correct. Think about it.

^ ^ THIS. You'll notice that MUCH of what I write is prefaced with 'IMO' (which admittedly gets really annoying, I even annoy myself with it) meaning what I believe to be true and/or what has worked for me personally.

Here is the under 202lbs 2010 Mr Olympia, he is 5'7 and under 202lbs in this pic and probably around 4% BF. I guess it's safe to say Gucks 53 year old trainer would blow his doors off he would only have to drop to 210lbs to hit 4%. So he would be an inch shorter and carry about 10 more lbs than the reigning Mr Olympia??????
Translated-Gucks I think you are full of crap.

Damn dude, kind of hard to argue this one. Maybe your trainer isn't quite at the stats you think?

Does his trainer have to be black too?

Lmao!

[Gucks]

Here is the under 202lbs 2010 Mr Olympia, he is 5'7 and under 202lbs in this pic and probably around 4% BF. I guess it's safe to say Gucks 53 year old trainer would blow his doors off he would only have to drop to 210lbs to hit 4%. So he would be an inch shorter and carry about 10 more lbs than the reigning Mr Olympia??????
Translated-Gucks I think you are full of crap.

he used to compete as a natty BB in his 20's and 30's, he won a good few shows in germany (hes from germany) and hes doing his first show in about 15 years this year in september, wuld be happy 2 post the pics from it then. he told me he is all natty atm but i doubt it, think he just said it not 2 influence young guys. and hes not kevin english lol, im not full of crap, i think 215 was a bit ambitious, 205-210 could be closer to the mark. wuld have said kevin english is lower then 4% for mr.olympia 202 aswell, most get down to 3% or even a little bit under 3%.

[jimmyinkedup]

Gucks, you seem like a nice guy and it's apparent you mean well. That said, going around quoting "your trainer" all the time is doing very little to help your credibilty which isnt something you have a whole lot of to begin with. It was only last week you were talking about how steroids pulls your muscles apart causing more definition. Then when you got called out on it you backpedaled faster than D Revis covering a WR. You tend to make comments in tons of threads you know nothing about. Just the other day you were giving bad advice in 11Way's thread. Now you are giving stats on "your trainer" that are better than 75% of IFBB Pro's. You have an ok knowledge base on a few very basic principles of this sport and that's really about it. You have a really bad tendency to get in way over your head and start making comments on stuff you obviously know nothing about. My advice to you would be to read a lil more and type a lil less.

Too bad it doesnt appear this post has been heeded ...its a good , polite , accurate , respectful post.
Fire ive been here a little while and ive never seen you give bad advice....on anything .....

[FireGuy]

OK, lets say for the sake of your argument Kevin English was 3% and lets also assume your 53 year old "self proclaimed natural" trainer is actually 207.5lbs @ 6%. He would only have to diet down to 201lbs to hit 3%. So again, this 53 year old "natural" trainer is still an inch shorter than Mr Olympia, just as lean and carrying the same amount of muscle tissue.
I would like to ammend my statement that you are full of crap.
You AND your trainer are full of crap.

Your own line stating "I think 215 was a bit ambitious" is pretty much the status quo for many of your posts. To say you tend to exaggerate would be a massive understatement. Your propensity to comment on issues you know nothing about is probably not in your best interest either. As SGTHartment already stated, unless you have personal experience with something you want to share or have extensively educated yourself on a topic it's probably best to remain silent on the issue or ask questions as opposed to making comments. I am not trying to put a muzzle on you but as GBrice stated if you are going to make statements that totally contradict conventional wisdom and science you better be able to back it up with something more than "my trainer says". You are 18 years old, well over 6 feet tall and under 180lbs.

I admire your enthusiasm and as I previously stated it's evident you have some basic (very basic) knowledge on diet. You will do much better around here if you Stay in You Lane. In other words stick to what you know. Dont parrot your trainers words. If you want to take the opposing side of a debate bring something more to the table than "my trainer says". Stop with the exagerrations or "ambitious statements".

You may have noticed the Vets and HOFer's tend to certain areas of the board. It's cause we know our knowledge is not equal to some others. Yes, I could hang out in the AAS section and answer 90% of the questions asked but Marcus, Matt and D7M do a better and more thorough job than I ever could. Same goes the opposite way, I have seen Marcus in the diet forum now and then and he knows more about dieting than 99% of the people in there yet you wont see him in there on a daily basis giving specific advice. My point is I see you in all these different forums giving advice or making comments when it's obvious you know nothing about the topic at hand or are just "guessing". I would be happy to provide you with several examples of you doing this if you needed.

[Matt]

OK, lets say for the sake of your argument Kevin English was 3% and lets also assume your 53 year old "self proclaimed natural" trainer is actually 207.5lbs @ 6%. He would only have to diet down to 201lbs to hit 3%. So again, this 53 year old "natural" trainer is still an inch shorter than Mr Olympia, just as lean and carrying the same amount of muscle tissue.
I would like to ammend my statement that you are full of crap.
You AND your trainer are full of crap.

Your own line stating "I think 215 was a bit ambitious" is pretty much the status quo for many of your posts. To say you tend to exaggerate would be a massive understatement. Your propensity to comment on issues you know nothing about is probably not in your best interest either. As SGTHartment already stated, unless you have personal experience with something you want to share or have extensively educated yourself on a topic it's probably best to remain silent on the issue or ask questions as opposed to making comments. I am not trying to put a muzzle on you but as GBrice stated if you are going to make statements that totally contradict conventional wisdom and science you better be able to back it up with something more than "my trainer says". You are 18 years old, well over 6 feet tall and under 180lbs.

I admire your enthusiasm and as I previously stated it's evident you have some basic (very basic) knowledge on diet. You will do much better around here is you Stay in You Lane. In other words stick to what you know. Dont parrot your trainers words. If you want to take the opposing side of a debate bring something more to the table than "my trainer says". Stop with the exagerrations or "ambitious statements".

You may have noticed the Vets and HOFer's tend to certain areas of the board. It's cause we know our knowledge is not equal to some others. Yes, I could hang out in the AAS section and answer 90% of the questions asked but Marcus, Matt and D7M do a better and more thorough job than I ever could. Same goes the opposite way, I have seen Marcus in the diet forum now and then and he knows more about dieting than 99% of the people in there yet you wont see him in there giving on a daily basis giving specific advice. My point is I see you in all these different forums giving advice or making comments when it's obvious you know nothing about the topic at hand or are just "guessing". I would be happy to provide you with several examples of you doing this if you needed.

Some excellent points here, my diet knowledge is basic, i know what works well for me and if theres something i feel needs changing or adding to my diet i will ask Fire. I do this because his knowledge on the subject is second to none..

Yes i could spend more time in the diet forum and give out "ok advice", but when theres people like Fire, jimmy, Gbrice and baseline (just to name a few) to answer those questions i know that each person is getting expert advice, far better advice than i could give...

We all have limits and theres very few people that i know who could give what i call expert advice in all areas be it diet, training or aas (many other areas i know). Although i certain Fire jimmy and Marcus would hold their own no matter what the topic....

Anyway, you will never go wrong listening to Fire, he speaks the truth and is one of the most respectful members to ever grace this board....

[Damienm05]

Great posts Fire and Hartman. At the expense of Gucks' credibility, this post has provided some excellent information and insight.

Just to second the importance of members sticking to what they know if they plan on dishing out advice; I never venture into other sections with the goal of answering questions like I do here because simply put, my knowledge of compounds is limited to my own brief experience.

[Gucks]

OK, lets say for the sake of your argument Kevin English was 3% and lets also assume your 53 year old "self proclaimed natural" trainer is actually 207.5lbs @ 6%. He would only have to diet down to 201lbs to hit 3%. So again, this 53 year old "natural" trainer is still an inch shorter than Mr Olympia, just as lean and carrying the same amount of muscle tissue.
I would like to ammend my statement that you are full of crap.
You AND your trainer are full of crap.

Your own line stating "I think 215 was a bit ambitious" is pretty much the status quo for many of your posts. To say you tend to exaggerate would be a massive understatement. Your propensity to comment on issues you know nothing about is probably not in your best interest either. As SGTHartment already stated, unless you have personal experience with something you want to share or have extensively educated yourself on a topic it's probably best to remain silent on the issue or ask questions as opposed to making comments. I am not trying to put a muzzle on you but as GBrice stated if you are going to make statements that totally contradict conventional wisdom and science you better be able to back it up with something more than "my trainer says". You are 18 years old, well over 6 feet tall and under 180lbs.

I admire your enthusiasm and as I previously stated it's evident you have some basic (very basic) knowledge on diet. You will do much better around here if you Stay in You Lane. In other words stick to what you know. Dont parrot your trainers words. If you want to take the opposing side of a debate bring something more to the table than "my trainer says". Stop with the exagerrations or "ambitious statements".

You may have noticed the Vets and HOFer's tend to certain areas of the board. It's cause we know our knowledge is not equal to some others. Yes, I could hang out in the AAS section and answer 90% of the questions asked but Marcus, Matt and D7M do a better and more thorough job than I ever could. Same goes the opposite way, I have seen Marcus in the diet forum now and then and he knows more about dieting than 99% of the people in there yet you wont see him in there on a daily basis giving specific advice. My point is I see you in all these different forums giving advice or making comments when it's obvious you know nothing about the topic at hand or are just "guessing". I would be happy to provide you with several examples of you doing this if you needed.

Fire, i know u've probably forgotten more about BB then i will ever know, not gonna back up my trainers stats because i dont have any proof, if u asked me to compare him to someone i would say hes pretty close to jason arntz:
http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=h...w=1040&bih=460

he competes as 202, and i doubt my trainer is natty, i dont have a problem with him telling me hes not though. hes trained 17/18 guys the same as me that are juiced so i wouldnt blame him for lying to me. i appreciate that im not always right, i tell ppl wht i BELIEVE to be right.

and ye im unde 180, im coming from being anorexic at 135ibs in hospital for 2months untill last june when i started training. i dont think anyone would say 37ibs of lean mass in 10months is a bad achievement. any advice i give i learned from having a private dietition and trainer in hospital or from wht i read myself. i get steady gains doign things the way they thought me so i give other people the same advice. and for the most part, i stick to the fitness forums. i have barely any knowledge of AAS so i rarely give advice on them.

ill get back in my box anyway

[Damienm05]

Fire, i know u've probably forgotten more about BB then i will ever know, not gonna back up my trainers stats because i dont have any proof, if u asked me to compare him to someone i would say hes pretty close to jason arntz:
http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=h...w=1040&bih=460

he competes as 202, and i doubt my trainer is natty, i dont have a problem with him telling me hes not though. hes trained 17/18 guys the same as me that are juiced so i wouldnt blame him for lying to me. i appreciate that im not always right, i tell ppl wht i BELIEVE to be right.

and ye im unde 180, im coming from being anorexic at 135ibs in hospital for 2months untill last june when i started training. i dont think anyone would say 37ibs of lean mass in 10months is a bad achievement. any advice i give i learned from having a private dietition and trainer in hospital or from wht i read myself. i get steady gains doign things the way they thought me so i give other people the same advice. and for the most part, i stick to the fitness forums. i have barely any knowledge of AAS so i rarely give advice on them.

ill get back in my box anyway

You're a good dude and your advice tends to be on point. I think the message is simply don't present it as fact, merely what you've noticed to be effective as part of your short, successful career in this realm.