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  1. #1
    Damienm05's Avatar
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    Going vegetarian. Kind of.

    For humane reasons, I've decided I'll no longer be consuming meat. My protein sources will be limited to wild-caught seafood and free-range eggs. I think I'll implement a "cheat meal" once in a while where I get a big, juicy steak but only at Morton's or some place that will provide deliciousness warranting slaughter for appetite's sake.

    I'm going to try to keep the protein sources varied by eating a mix of flaky white fish, fatty river fish like salmon and trout, and Ahi tuna and swordfish steaks in moderation to avoid excess mercury consumption. I'll also be doing sea scallops, shrimp, and crab meat but again, in moderation because I can't spend my whole salary on food.

    I won't be eating any vegetarian-specific meat substitutes as they're way inferior. They're high in protein but many are not complete protein sources and others are purely soy. All of them are processed foods and they don't fit my low-sodium requirements, despite being "healthy" choices.

    I'll also be doing more research as to completing protein sources with complimentary foods.

    Anyway, just thought I'd share and keep you guys posted on how it affects my bodybuilding lifestyle. I can't be the only one who's wanted to do this for a while but was simply too scared of providing insufficient muscle fuel. We'll see.

  2. #2
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    I think you will find that once you are clean so to speak, you won't have an urge to consume meat.

    Enjoy.

  3. #3
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    I hope so! The chicken I can give up with ease, I know that. I really love beef though and find it to be the best protein source available. I just feel tremendously guilty every time I eat it as an animal lover. I hope nobody finds me hypocritical in saying I don't share anywhere near the same level of compassion for a fish.

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    Very interesting D, i'm subscribed.

    I tried this a few years ago, for the same reasons as you (humane), but it was prior to getting into shape. With that, I only had to worry about eating 'to survive', I didn't have the added worry of building the body I want.

    I stuck with it for a good 4-5 months, but am sad to say I fell off the wagon eventually... as you know, my will can be weak and I got really tired of eating fish and eggs all the time...

    I wish you the best of luck man. You're already a stand up guy, but the reasons you are doing this only reinforce what I like about you. Compassionate, caring... you have a conscience.

  5. #5
    Damienm05's Avatar
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    Don't bash your willpower man, it's not easy! I tried it too before I was into this lifestyle and fell off the wagon similarly fast. I'm thinking that this lifestyle has probably given me the dedication to stick to any diet change this time around and it's about time.

    Thanks for your kind words man! They're 100% reciprocated.

  6. #6
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    We all need to live in a way that we can, well, live with. I was a vegetarian for several years and felt great. Are you eating fish with every meal? If so, you won't get any benefits of a vegetarian diet (because you won't be eating one) but coming to terms with how your food ends up on your plate sounds like your real goal.

    I went from being a vegetarian, to eating meat sparingly, to recently eating three or four chicken breasts a day. It is a conflict for me.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbrice75 View Post
    I got really tired of eating fish and eggs all the time...
    Same here. Vegetarianism was easier when I wasn't lifting. My food intake has changed along with my goals.

    But...you guys know fish is meat, right?

  8. #8
    Damienm05's Avatar
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    I will be eating fish at almost every meal, yes. That's why I say it's not really true vegetarianism. I simply would not be able to maintain my weight without animal protein. I simply want to avoid cruelty to mammals and not support factory farming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Damienm05 View Post
    I will be eating fish at almost every meal, yes. That's why I say it's not really true vegetarianism. I simply would not be able to maintain my weight without animal protein. I simply want to avoid cruelty to mammals and not support factory farming.
    I understand and completely agree with both those statements. You are in the same place I am, just doing a better job of resolving it. Heh.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damienm05 View Post
    For humane reasons, I've decided I'll no longer be consuming meat. My protein sources will be limited to wild-caught seafood and free-range eggs. I think I'll implement a "cheat meal" once in a while where I get a big, juicy steak but only at Morton's or some place that will provide deliciousness warranting slaughter for appetite's sake.

    I'm going to try to keep the protein sources varied by eating a mix of flaky white fish, fatty river fish like salmon and trout, and Ahi tuna and swordfish steaks in moderation to avoid excess mercury consumption. I'll also be doing sea scallops, shrimp, and crab meat but again, in moderation because I can't spend my whole salary on food.
    If you want to be a Vegan.. than by all means go for it.. but do not sit here and say that eating Tuna and Wild Salmon is more humane.. as their populations (especially Tuna and Swordfish) have been DECIMATED!!! over 70% of the Tuna population has disappeared do to fishing.. at least farmed fish are sustainable.. eating more tuna and more swordfish is a step in the wrong direction.. while you are at it why not throw in some Shark Fin Soup?? i mean what is the difference between a cow and tuna? they are the same size... Tuna might even be smarter?? They bleed when you cut them???

    Sorry, i do not mean to rant, but this "humane" argument when it comes to vegetarians drives me nuts.. it is complete hypocrisy.. Do not give up meat just because you saw a video of a slaughter house and felt bad about it. If you said you hate the flavor, or it hurts your stomach or something okay.. but do not fool yourself into believing what you are doing is more "humane" unless you plan on not eating wild fish either.

    I mean no disrespect.. but i dated a vegetarian once and she tried to make this argument and it was garbage.. she is back on meat now anyways as women and vegetarian diets are not a good idea due to lack of iron and such in normal veg other than spinach.
    Last edited by MACHINE5150; 03-05-2011 at 01:25 PM.

  11. #11
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    Machine, I'm a lifelong animal lover and donate regularly to the Humane Society and Greenpeace. I don't watch those Slaughterhouse videos because I can't bring myself to.

    I suppose you're right, I was just posting this as I was brainstorming and hadn't fully considered everything, mainly the ramifications on wild populations. I won't be eating tuna at all considering the ramifications fishing for it has on other species as well and I will do some research on what other wild fish to avoid based on population.

    I'll entertain one argument however. Here's the difference between a cow and a tuna, if we're taking intelligence out of the equation: at least the tuna has some quality of life before it ends up on a plate. It's not separated from it's young, raised in tight confines, abused in countless ways, pumped full of hormones, and finally put out of it's misery. It's also a mammal that gives birth and has instinct to care for it's young, just like us. It's got a far more complex central nervous system than a fish and a pain tolerance similar to that of your dog. I don't wear hemp clothing or write poems at coffee shops but I do feel strongly about this and have my whole life.

    But to reiterate, you're absolutely right - I hadn't fully done my research or even considered a lot of factors. I'll keep everyone up to date as I go deeper into this and polish off my last bag of frozen Tilapia.

  12. #12
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    Damien. I am somewhat surprised as the direction you are taking (humane and cruelty aside since that is personal). I tried, in many of my attempts to shed unwanted fat - not that you have this issue - by trying alternatives including vegetarian. After 2 months on a mostly raw veggie diet, I became iron deficient, bloated from all that 'air', in pain and weak; ended up in the hospital, cuz as the doctor said, my constitution could not tolerate all that fiber. I have friends who for religious reasons are VEGANS, but the close friends they tell me they cheat and eat meat occasionally and they will remain nameless LOL. It is difficult to maintain good protein source from only plants or eggs...not impossible, just more challenging. One of my vegetarian friends rotates between that and with meatetarian cut they just can't sustain the veg lifestyle.

    I will be following this to see how you feel and impact on workout. Good luck!

  13. #13
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    It is hard to sort these things out. I ate zero meat when I was a vegetarian, but I ate eggs sometimes, and those chickens live a crap life. At the end of the day I knew I was lessening the amount of pain in the world and it was enough for me. I didn't know that stuff above about fish...mostly because I rarely eat it.

    Damien, you will figure out a way to accomplish your goals. Even eating LESS meat makes a difference. Remember, you get a lot more meat per life the bigger the animal is. I suppose we should all eat whale. Wait, those are on the unpopular list. We just can't win.

  14. #14
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    I was honestly waiting for it to say "just kidding" at the bottom of the post. Haha. Anyway bro if you are looking for something that is killed humanely and is sustainable, you won't find it. Even eggs; chickens are held in horrible conditions to give birth to eggs in a tiny cage. You are going to have to set your feelings aside bro. I feel for you and the animals but if you want to make a difference somehow vote and protest and create an awareness about the issue. That's it. Voting with your measly $70 a week won't do shit. Eat your steak, and vote.

    Also be aware that if you go vegetarian it is likely you will not be able to go back with the same metabolism. I see people with fat gaining problems due to this on a weekly basis.

  15. #15
    Damienm05's Avatar
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    Yeah, the chickens are de-beaked due tiny little crates they raise them in where, out of frustration, they would otherwise beak each other to death. It's awful. That's why I've always bought free-range organic eggs.

  16. #16
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    I don't judge and I would never call you a hypocrite, but if it swims or walks and breaths oxygen and we eat it it's called survival. And it's slauterd for just that.
    I'll support your goals no matter how you obtain them.
    Good luck

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBMETC View Post
    I don't judge and I would never call you a hypocrite, but if it swims or walks and breaths oxygen and we eat it it's called survival. And it's slauterd for just that.
    I'll support your goals no matter how you obtain them.
    Good luck
    I appreciate your support but it's not survival to process these animals in mass quantities in the cheapest way possible which results in inherent cruelty and tons of pollution. Yes, If I was Will Smith in "I am Legend" I'd be killing deer to eat. Hell if I lived in a more rural area and could get my hands on some organic, free range, grass-fed beef from a local farm, I'd probably call it survival too. I do see your point though.

    In retrospect this post should have been titled, "Will No Longer Be Supporting Factory Farms"

  18. #18
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    ^^^^That i can agree with.. any chance you can just get your meat from a local butcher?? lots of butchers have farms that raise their own beef and do not do it in a factory type manner.. Here in Ireland, there are tons of butcher shops.. and the cows are not raised the way they are in the States.. the States does everything like an assembly line. Also, i know of free range eggs.. but is there free range chicken meat??? i never seen it and do not know if it exists..

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINE5150 View Post
    ^^^^That i can agree with.. any chance you can just get your meat from a local butcher?? lots of butchers have farms that raise their own beef and do not do it in a factory type manner.. Here in Ireland, there are tons of butcher shops.. and the cows are not raised the way they are in the States.. the States does everything like an assembly line. Also, i know of free range eggs.. but is there free range chicken meat??? i never seen it and do not know if it exists..
    In terms of a butcher that fits those criteria, there's none in this area. There is a good shop for game and other less common meats but no humanely raised beef. At Whole Foods and Fresh Market here, they do have free range chickens but honestly, it's so damn expensive for a protein source that I see as inferior to fish. Also, maybe it's just been a staple my whole life but unless we're talking dark meat - I don't even like the stuff.

    I spend a lot of time in Europe and you're spot on, it's completely different with regard to meat and produce. Truth be told, if I lived overseas I wouldn't have much of a dilemma eating meat regularly.

    I did find this: http://www.theblackdiamondranch.com/beef-products.html

    $8.50/lb. for flank isn't outrageous. I'll do more research.

  20. #20
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    Good luck to ya

    I sure as hell wont be doing it LOL

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    Check out the web site eatwild dot com. I hate to see anybody give up meat, I absolutely love that stuff.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBMETC View Post
    I don't judge and I would never call you a hypocrite, but if it swims or walks and breaths oxygen and we eat it it's called survival. And it's slauterd for just that.
    I'll support your goals no matter how you obtain them.
    Good luck
    We're bodybuilding, that's hardly survival. In fact, very few people in the civilized world are concerned with 'survival'. These animals are farmed for mass production, and have a terrible quality of life up until their slaughter, which must be sweet relief for them. I hate the way this is allowed... everything for the allmighty dollar. I am struggling with my own reasoning behind eating as much meat as I do now...

    I have no problems with killing an animal to eat it, for sustenance. I have alot of respect for nature and animals, and understand the food chain just fine. The problem is these animals are handled like objects, and it just isn't right. I hate how our government is just fine with this, I guess they make plenty off of these huge corporations, so it's nobody's concern.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by gbrice75 View Post
    We're bodybuilding, that's hardly survival. In fact, very few people in the civilized world are concerned with 'survival'. These animals are farmed for mass production, and have a terrible quality of life up until their slaughter, which must be sweet relief for them. I hate the way this is allowed... everything for the allmighty dollar. I am struggling with my own reasoning behind eating as much meat as I do now...

    I have no problems with killing an animal to eat it, for sustenance. I have alot of respect for nature and animals, and understand the food chain just fine. The problem is these animals are handled like objects, and it just isn't right. I hate how our government is just fine with this, I guess they make plenty off of these huge corporations, so it's nobody's concern.
    I feel like you and agree with the inhumanity of killing, i just try not to think of it. now with the world population do you think there is a better way to supply the world with these foods. if we just let these animals breed on their own there would not be nearly enough food to go around. i blame it on the fastfood industry and the obesity problem that keeps these places thriving.

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    Its really just the evolution of natural selection - good or bad. The fact is there is not enough wildlife to support the population if we were all still hunter/gatherers. I dont view the breeding of livestock any differntly than the harvesting of grains. In order to support the population necessity dictates that we do this.
    Its a personal choice ..and i respect others rights and opinions on this matter. Thats just mine.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBMETC View Post
    I feel like you and agree with the inhumanity of killing, i just try not to think of it. now with the world population do you think there is a better way to supply the world with these foods. if we just let these animals breed on their own there would not be nearly enough food to go around. i blame it on the fastfood industry and the obesity problem that keeps these places thriving.
    Bigtime, for starters.



    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    Its really just the evolution of natural selection - good or bad. The fact is there is not enough wildlife to support the population if we were all still hunter/gatherers. I dont view the breeding of livestock any differntly than the harvesting of grains. In order to support the population necessity dictates that we do this.
    Its a personal choice ..and i respect others rights and opinions on this matter. Thats just mine.
    I know this thread is getting derailed, so I apologize in advance. I respect your opinion, but we're already disgustingly overpopulated - and even with the food industry as it is, there are still people starving in this world.

    Maybe I have a really morbid view of humanity, but I see us as nothing more than parasites, sucking the resources out of this planet. Just look at the changes over the last 100 years... then consider 100 years as compared to the age of our planet. It's disgusting.

  26. #26
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    I don't mind a bit of derailment if it opens the channels of communication regarding all of the above issues. At all.

    I went to Whole Foods last night to get my Ezekiel bread and Foods for Life Linguine. Figured I'd stop by the butcher while I was at it and see what they had going on. Turns out, they've recently gone humane for all meat products, not just free-range poultry. That said, it didn't change much for me because Flank steak was $16.00 per pound. I'll give up the stuff before I pay that as a matter of principle based on the prices I've seen online for humane beef. Their definition of humane wasn't fully disclosed but they did have a Plasma TV showing cows, chickens, and sheep roaming freely in green pastures. Anyway, it's nice to know there's a local grocery where I can get my cheat meal steak without feeling guilty.

    As of now, I'm eating farmed Tilapia and Steelhead trout exclusively, as well as my morning eggs. For the Tilapia I've been doing a southwestern seasoning salt i whipped up, topped with a tablespoon of organic guacamole and pico, served over brown rice and beans. It's fantastic. The trout, I prepped a big batch of on Saturday. I'm doing it for pro/fat, crusted with pecans and pan roasted with the skin on, served over kale/chard with lemon juice. Obviously, I'll be doing different recipes and different fish every week or so but these two have been very tasty and I'm feeling good. Next week I'm thinking salmon with cinnamon roasted sweet potato wedges and lemon sole with french lentils. Really making an effort to keep it fresh and avoid steak withdrawal.

  27. #27
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    Hey Dameion,

    Congrats. Ive been vegan for 2 months now for the same reasons.

    And I really like it. I definitley am not getting as much protein as i was before, but who really needs that much if you are not a pro.

    I have lost no strngth or size. And about those farm raised fish, that shit is horrible for you to eat. Have you never seen images of those farms in tailand and vietnam. F*kin nasty shit.

    You dont need it. Go fishing if you want to eat fish. I really fell pretty good other than my energy is way down. I eat a lot of greens everyday, and I mean a lot. Got the Montel Williams emulsifier.

    I put 2 huge handfuls of spinach, collard greens, blueberries, banana, spirulina, chorlella, maca root, and natty peanut butter. I love it. I do this twice a day. Some healthy shit right there.

    But the book 1,000 vegan recipes. Some good stuff in there. Good luck and ask me any questions, I would love to help.

  28. #28
    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    Also been eating a lot of salads with black beans and quinoa on it. Some good protein there.

    We eat seitan and tempe also. Some processed stuff but good sources of protein and it tastes like whatever you cook it with. Those are good sources of wheat protein.

    I am trying not to eat very much soy protein. I am getting around 150-175 grams of protein per day. I dont count it but it is somewhere around there. No animal products whatsoever. Ive cheated twice. I hate about 5-6dozen oysters one nite and I also ate some Kobe beef, but those are Happy Cows.

  29. #29
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    Thanks for the info and support JJ but most of it isn't applicable based on how serious I am about a bodybuilding lifestyle. Don't get me wrong, I don't step on stage but I have done two AAS cycles and am carrying about 60 lbs of lean body mass that I didn't have a few years ago. I also play sports like a madman. I'd certainly lose a lot of what I've worked for if I were to cut out all animal protein. I suppose I could eat tons of quinoa and soy protein products but that would both throw my carb intake and estrogen levels way off. I agree that the farmed fish is nasty but I've recently been presented with some information that makes me not want to eat the wild caught stuff too often.

    I may be falling into an excellent job soon that will provide me with the funds to live however I choose to. Should it happen, I'll have the funds to spend whatever I want on groceries and as such, be able to find a farmer who can sell me happy meat in mass quantities every couple months.

  30. #30
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    I hear you Damienm. I 2 have done 3 total cycles. 1 was a total waste though. I am crusing on 250 a week of sust right now. Maybe that is why I have not lost any weight?

    Definitley dont eat a ton of soy products. There are other options, my protein powder is rice and pea protein. Who knew?

    Yes last month our food bill was over $1,000 for me and my 125lbs fiance. We are trying to cut that in half this month , but we have already spent $330 this month.

    That is the right idea, find a local farmer who treats his animals with respect and feeds them the proper feed.

    Yeah commercially wild caught fish is very inhumane. You shouldnt have a problem fining a local sustainable farmer in Va.

    I know you are all about the bodybuilding diet style. I was for a long time, but I dont feel that a high protein low carb diet is a very healthy way to fuel the body, but i was never as dedicated as you seem to be.

    Anyway, hit me anytime if you need any food sources, we have discovered a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmyinkedup View Post
    Its really just the evolution of natural selection - good or bad. The fact is there is not enough wildlife to support the population if we were all still hunter/gatherers. I dont view the breeding of livestock any differntly than the harvesting of grains. In order to support the population necessity dictates that we do this.
    Its a personal choice ..and i respect others rights and opinions on this matter. Thats just mine.
    The problem with this way of thinking is that factory farming is destroying the earth.
    Polution, contaimination, disease.
    And the feed that they feed these animals is all GMO corn and shit. Then you are ingesting it into your body and you are not getting the proper nutrients from the food, plus who knows what the GMO DNA is doing to your body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbrice75 View Post
    We're bodybuilding, that's hardly survival. In fact, very few people in the civilized world are concerned with 'survival'. These animals are farmed for mass production, and have a terrible quality of life up until their slaughter, which must be sweet relief for them. I hate the way this is allowed... everything for the allmighty dollar. I am struggling with my own reasoning behind eating as much meat as I do now...

    I have no problems with killing an animal to eat it, for sustenance. I have alot of respect for nature and animals, and understand the food chain just fine. The problem is these animals are handled like objects, and it just isn't right. I hate how our government is just fine with this, I guess they make plenty off of these huge corporations, so it's nobody's concern.
    I too feel like with the rate of disease, especially in America, is in direct coorlation with the way we treat animals and the earth. Mother Nature is punishing the human race with disease.

    The China Study is a very interesting book.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ78 View Post
    I am crusing on 250 a week of sust right now. Maybe that is why I have not lost any weight?
    Yes, definitely!

    Still, by making some changes and doing research on completing incomplete protein sources, you can come up with a vegan diet to at least sustain your physique.

    I will definitely hit you up regarding some food choices as I become more involved in this lifestyle with the emphasis on humane, natural, sustainable foods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ78 View Post
    The problem with this way of thinking is that factory farming is destroying the earth.
    Polution, contaimination, disease.
    And the feed that they feed these animals is all GMO corn and shit. Then you are ingesting it into your body and you are not getting the proper nutrients from the food, plus who knows what the GMO DNA is doing to your body.
    Well ill tell you...ohhh wait i think my turkey burgers are ready to flip...brb...

    Ok back...sorry




    *note* the above was a joke and not meant to offend anyone - although i am eating ground turkey tonight.

    In all seriousness I respct your opinion and lifestyle, i do....i just dont share either one.
    .

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    Yeh that is what I thought. I was 230lbs when I cut meat out. And now I am 223lbs this morning, but I can fluctuate that much in a day. Sitting at around 15-17% BF

  36. #36
    JJ78 is offline Senior Member
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    No offense takin brother, I wish I had a turkey burger, but I just cant in my conscience.

    It doesnt bother me that people eat meat. I do love a good steak.

  37. #37
    Panzerfaust's Avatar
    Panzerfaust is offline Ron Paul Nuthugger
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    I have taken this route as well recently, not that I give a **** about some animal dying or anything. Just doing it to see what its like, only thing so far is finding enough variety recipes. I shop at Whole Foods and so far I am loving the Ezekial bread, organic yogurts, veggie chipotle burrito's, veggie burgers. I might eat chicken every once in awhile or fish, not sure and have no craving for any of it really.
    ***No source checks!!!***

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