realistic goal (and diet help plz)?

Hi, can you answer my question below (sorry if its long)

So al just start out with my stats:

Age: 19
Height: 5'6
Weight: 135lbs
BF: about 12%

I have trained on off for a couple of years but am now going to take it very seriously, meaning the diet and the training, no half a$$ing it. As you can tell I am very small guy. I know that i really need to pack on some serious mass. Before (and currently) my diet has been crap, probs about 1500-2000 cals (and not clean either). I know i should be aiming for atleast 2500-3000 cals which is what i will do. so what i am asking is:

1. how much weight/mass (not too much fat but some i.e. 5% more is ok) would be a realistic goal in say 3 months (not stopping after, just want an estimate for this particular time frame for various reasons). Now i know that its different for everyone due to genetics etc. but for someone in my situation who is say massively bumping up calories and training, would it be possible to get to about 150 lbs at roughly the same BF?

2. what should my diet look like, as in i know to eat every 2-3 hours and have about 5-6 meals so about 500 cals a meal (not including shakes). How much meat/poultry etc should i be eating a day/week?

May main concern is that I want to gain some decent size (quite quickly) so I dont atleast have a childs body for when start uni in sep. Thanks for all those that took the time to read and/or help (sorry it was long) :)

Varying opinions will come, but I was exactly 5'6" 135lbs at your age. I say you can add 20 lbs in 3 months and only go up 2-3% bodyfat if that. I will give you the weight program that did if for me and we'll all help you with the diet.

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Originally Posted by tbody66

Varying opinions will come, but I was exactly 5'6" 135lbs at your age. I say you can add 20 lbs in 3 months and only go up 2-3% bodyfat if that. I will give you the weight program that did if for me and we'll all help you with the diet.

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That would be great. yes could i please have your weight program if possible, thanks tbody, also, had you just started training then, and roughley what was your diet like, thanks :)

when i started i was the same weight as u except im 6"3 :P i gained about 20ibs in my first 3 months. the gains r easy when u first put ur mind to it, its sticking with it when they slow down thats hard. read the stickys on here and put together a diet with macros in a new thread 4 ppl 2 help u with, or use tbodys im sure it will be spot on. my advice for working out when u first start seriously is dont do a 2day split with a muscle group each day like u read in bodybuilding mags, thts 4 intermediate/experienced lifters. stick to compound movements (deadlifts, squats, bench press, barbell row, lat pulldown etc.). i worked every muscle group every day when i started just doing 3 exercises per muslce group. its what my trainer had me doing for my first 2months untill it got a little bit more advanced. it lookede like this:

2days on - 1day off - 2days on - 2days off with same regime each day:
squats - 4 x 10
bench press - 4 x 8
deadlift - 3 x 8
lat pulldown - 4 x 12
leg extension/leg curl superset - 4 x 12
dumbell flys - 4 x 10
low row - 3 x 8
military press - 4 x 10
machine press - 3 x 8

thats just off the top of my head, it was something similar 2 that.

thanks gucks sounds great mate. So should i use that same (or similar) workout for every workout? and will that workout all nessacary muscle groups to atleast some extent?

I think the point that's been missed above is the OP isn't 'just starting' - Tbody and Gucks, you're referencing newb gains. The OP COULD make this if his training has been sub par (which based on weight sounds like it was), however I wouldn't expect these types of gains.

I'd also be concerned about making a huge caloric jump just like that - your body may not be ready for this and could store bodyfat.

My best advice to you is this: don't worry about how much weight you might gain in X amount of months, etc. - just implement a proper diet and training regimen, make the best gains you can and BE CONSISTENT. As long as you make fairly steady gains, I'd be alot less concerned with how much I weighed.

k thanks gbrice. ye my training has been sub par tbh. its been more so a case of poor diet and training, and training for a few months on then off for 5 months, then on for 2 etc. i have only really been going up and down like 5 lbs over the last year (over christmas i got sick an lost like 5-10 lbs), so i havent really been training at all really, more like a poor exuse of it. but i am now finally gunna get my a$$ in gear and finally train and diet seriously, (so damn sick of being small).

Its not really about the weight, but more so about my size (which reflects my weight), am hoping i can atleast look somewhat like a 145-150 lber (in the time frame) even if i'm the scales dont actually say it :P

Yeah I hear ya about the calorie jump, i think al spend a couple of weeks working my way up to it, thanks

Also with regards to lifts would u suggest the same as above? Thanks

bold

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Originally Posted by little_dude

k thanks gbrice. ye my training has been sub par tbh. its been more so a case of poor diet and training, and training for a few months on then off for 5 months, then on for 2 etc. i have only really been going up and down like 5 lbs over the last year (over christmas i got sick an lost like 5-10 lbs), so i havent really been training at all really, more like a poor exuse of it. but i am now finally gunna get my a$$ in gear and finally train and diet seriously, (so damn sick of being small).

Its not really about the weight, but more so about my size (which reflects my weight), am hoping i can atleast look somewhat like a 145-150 lber (in the time frame) even if i'm the scales dont actually say it :P

Well, you're not gonna look it unless you ARE it! How you get there is completely dependent on your diet. You can easily get to 150lbs with a dirty diet, but you'll add alot of bodyfat and will be carrying a ton of water. If you keep it clean, idk that you'll add 15lbs of muscle in a few months, but you will look bigger as you add weight for sure.

Yeah I hear ya about the calorie jump, i think al spend a couple of weeks working my way up to it, thanks

Great idea

Also with regards to lifts would u suggest the same as above? Thanks

I'm not 100% sure I understand what Gucks is recommending, but if it's doing that workout 2 days in a row, then taking a day off, then doing it again 2 days in a row, then no, I don't suggest that at all. Gucks, can you clarify what you're suggesting?

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so iyo what would u recommend for lifting gbrice?

At your level (no offense), pretty much any halfway decent routine is going to show results. If the program layed out above is what it looks like to me, it will have you way overtrained with no time for recovery. I have a feeling i'm reading it wrong though, so we'll wait for Gucks on that one.

Without getting too far into a specific routine, I would recommend you focus mainly on large compound movements. Bench Press, Deadlift, Squats, Military Press, etc. You don't need to do cable crossovers or wrist curls.

I think you will find benefit in training 2x a week for a short period of time - say 3 months to start. Actually, my current routine consists of 3 different workouts, and i'm doing each workout every 3rd or 5th day (5 days a week) depending on the week. I alternate weeks with rep ranges - 8-11 and 4-7.

You could do something similar and then switch it up to a 5x5 to focus on strength, etc.

There are many ways to skin a cat; the above is just a very general suggestion. You should take a look around the workout section for some ideas of full on routines.

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

At your level (no offense), pretty much any halfway decent routine is going to show results. If the program layed out above is what it looks like to me, it will have you way overtrained with no time for recovery. I have a feeling i'm reading it wrong though, so we'll wait for Gucks on that one.

no offense taken mate. Ye i thought it was a bit much myself.

Without getting too far into a specific routine, I would recommend you focus mainly on large compound movements. Bench Press, Deadlift, Squats, Military Press, etc. You don't need to do cable crossovers or wrist curls.

how many sets would you reccomend for each and roughley how many reps should i aim for

I think you will find benefit in training 2x a week for a short period of time - say 3 months to start. Actually, my current routine consists of 3 different workouts, and i'm doing each workout every 3rd or 5th day (5 days a week) depending on the week. I alternate weeks with rep ranges - 8-11 and 4-7.

so training 2-3 times a week (where all/most muscle groups are trained) would be enough to see decent gains (obviously varies)

You could do something similar and then switch it up to a 5x5 to focus on strength, etc.

There are many ways to skin a cat; the above is just a very general suggestion. You should take a look around the workout section for some ideas of full on routines.

will do mate thank you :)

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I'd recommend 3-4 sets per exercise, or a progression - i.e. week 1 @ 2 sets, week 2 @ 3 sets, and so on. I wouldn't go more than 5 sets per exercise.

I'd recommend the 'big' exercise for any given muscle group, and then one or 2 supplemental exercises to accompany. Example:

Bench Press (main)
Incline Press (supp)
Dips (supp)

Change it up the following week:

Bench Press (main stays constant)
Incline Dumbbell Press
Pec Deck or Dumbbell Fly's

You can work anywhere within the 4-15 rep range and see results. As I said above, I like to keep mine split - generally 4-7 and 8-11 or 12. I switch this weekly (when i'm running my current routine).

I am working out 5x a week, not 2-3. 2-3 times a week will probably not be sufficient for you at this point. If you're going to train groups 2x a week (alot of people will disagree with me here, but again I think it's effective in the short term, especially for a beginner), you will easily need to train 5x a week. Don't do this for more than 3 months without a routine switch.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

I am working out 5x a week, not 2-3. 2-3 times a week will probably not be sufficient for you at this point. If you're going to train groups 2x a week (alot of people will disagree with me here, but again I think it's effective in the short term, especially for a beginner), you will easily need to train 5x a week. Don't do this for more than 3 months without a routine switch.

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So how should i spread the 5x a week.
i.e.
Train: Mon,Tue,Thu,Fri,Sun
Rest: Wed,Sat

Quote:

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Originally Posted by little_dude

So how should i spread the 5x a week.
i.e.
Train: Mon,Tue,Thu,Fri,Sun
Rest: Wed,Sat

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There are a number of possibilities. I'm currently doing M-F with the weekend off.

Workout A, B, C, A, B
C, A, B, C, A
B, C, A, B, C

and so on. as you can see, every workout is performed either every 3rd or 5th day.

I see, thanks for all the help gbrice, i really appreciate it :) I think al make a workout thread tomorrow to sort out anything else, so i dont have to bother u any more :P thanks for all the help

I like to do my last set to failure. I find it a good way to determine if I should up the weight for the following week. If I'm doing reps in the 8-10 range and on the last set I can do 12, then next week I up the weight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

I think the point that's been missed above is the OP isn't 'just starting' - Tbody and Gucks, you're referencing newb gains. The OP COULD make this if his training has been sub par (which based on weight sounds like it was), however I wouldn't expect these types of gains.

I'd also be concerned about making a huge caloric jump just like that - your body may not be ready for this and could store bodyfat.

My best advice to you is this: don't worry about how much weight you might gain in X amount of months, etc. - just implement a proper diet and training regimen, make the best gains you can and BE CONSISTENT. As long as you make fairly steady gains, I'd be alot less concerned with how much I weighed.

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I'd been lifting since I was 15 years old and had won Gold Medals in powerlifting, as well as setting records at meets for my age and weight class, and I still made those gains and more at his age. I may have experienced a growth spurt in conjunction with my diet and exercise program, but how would I know, I didn't get any taller. I think over-training is over-talked and rareley done, but under-training is abundant. If little_dude's body is ready to train and grow he needs to be training and feeding it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by little_dude

thanks gucks sounds great mate. So should i use that same (or similar) workout for every workout? and will that workout all nessacary muscle groups to atleast some extent?

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ye, gb was reading it a bit wrong :P i wasnt saying keep the same routine every workout, got a bit tangle din my words. but when u start training properly for the first time, u dont want 2 fall into the trap of copying pro's workouts from a magazine and going monday - chest, tuesday - legs etc. u need 2 stick to compound movements, not isolation movements. and u can train each bodypart 2/3 times a week. 3 is pushing imo, but some ppl can manage it for a few weeks at a time. tht was me just working from memory of the exercises i did starting out, rather then doing concentration curls, reverse flys etc. for small muslces.

im gonna disagree with gb a bit on not worrying about wht the scales say. i always believe in having a set goal for a set period of time, u can get caught in a trap of just going through the motions otherwise. eg. u want to gain 15ibs so set yourself the goal of gaining 3ibs for Y weeks, 2ibs for Y weeks etc.

without a short term goal ur not going to make any real progress!

and gb, when did u become a mod? :P i missed tht.

wht ushuld remember when ur asking about workouts aswell is 75% of what u will do gaining muscle is eat! get a diet sorted out and post it up here for ppl 2 help u with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbody66

I'd been lifting since I was 15 years old and had won Gold Medals in powerlifting, as well as setting records at meets for my age and weight class, and I still made those gains and more at his age. I may have experienced a growth spurt in conjunction with my diet and exercise program, but how would I know, I didn't get any taller. I think over-training is over-talked and rareley done, but under-training is abundant. If little_dude's body is ready to train and grow he needs to be training and feeding it.

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i agree with that alot, ur talking 48hrs for ur muscles to recover. training a muscle group once a week for me isnt about recovery time, but about time. no1 has time 2 work every muscle group every 2/3days. when u start out u recover alot faster aswell. as long as ur diets in check ur not going to over-train urself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by little_dude

I see, thanks for all the help gbrice, i really appreciate it :) I think al make a workout thread tomorrow to sort out anything else, so i dont have to bother u any more :P thanks for all the help

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It's no bother at all, but yes you still should make a workout thread. With it being in the right section, you're bound to get more help on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nephets

I like to do my last set to failure. I find it a good way to determine if I should up the weight for the following week. If I'm doing reps in the 8-10 range and on the last set I can do 12, then next week I up the weight.

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Personally, I think this is flawed. I base bumping up my weight on my FIRST (working) set, not last. Your first set is the set that really counts IMO - you are the best you're going to be for that exercise. Every subsequent set, you're a bit more degradated. This is why i've never seen much value in pyramid sets, and why i've always used reverse pyramids as it just makes sense to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbody66

I think over-training is over-talked and rareley done, but under-training is abundant.

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You're definitely preaching to the choir. As I said, i'm currently training groups 2x a week. I agree 100% that under training is abundant - no way you need 7 days to recover, I don't care HOW hard you train, I just don't buy it. However I wouldn't take overtraining as lightly as you are - I have seen plenty of people training the same parts way too often, and those just happen to be their weakest parts. There's something to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gucks

ye, gb was reading it a bit wrong :P i wasnt saying keep the same routine every workout, got a bit tangle din my words. but when u start training properly for the first time, u dont want 2 fall into the trap of copying pro's workouts from a magazine and going monday - chest, tuesday - legs etc. u need 2 stick to compound movements, not isolation movements. and u can train each bodypart 2/3 times a week. 3 is pushing imo, but some ppl can manage it for a few weeks at a time. tht was me just working from memory of the exercises i did starting out, rather then doing concentration curls, reverse flys etc. for small muslces.

im gonna disagree with gb a bit on not worrying about wht the scales say. i always believe in having a set goal for a set period of time, u can get caught in a trap of just going through the motions otherwise. eg. u want to gain 15ibs so set yourself the goal of gaining 3ibs for Y weeks, 2ibs for Y weeks etc.

without a short term goal ur not going to make any real progress!

and gb, when did u become a mod? :P i missed tht.

wht ushuld remember when ur asking about workouts aswell is 75% of what u will do gaining muscle is eat! get a diet sorted out and post it up here for ppl 2 help u with.

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Agree w/ 2x a week - but not indefinitely. I don't think a person can continue to train like that non-stop. 3x a week is too much for 95% of people IMO. Also to clarify - I wasn't suggesting he not set a goal, goals are what drives us - but what I was saying was don't be overly concerned/obsessed with numbers. Making gains = making progress. Numbers are just numbers.

I got promoted a few weeks ago Gucks, haven't seen you around in a while! =P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gucks

i agree with that alot, ur talking 48hrs for ur muscles to recover. training a muscle group once a week for me isnt about recovery time, but about time. no1 has time 2 work every muscle group every 2/3days. when u start out u recover alot faster aswell. as long as ur diets in check ur not going to over-train urself.

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48 hours for recovery time is WAY too general to state it as if it's physiological law. For some people, yes, they recover very quickly. I personally know people who train 2x a day (same muscle group, low reps in the am, high at night) and recover enough to do the same workout 3 days later. But there are others (like myself) who recover much more slowly - 48 hours would rarely be enough time for me. 72 hours is cutting it very close, and with legs it never happens - I need at least 5 days for them. But 7 days is kind if ridiculous, again, IMO.

lol, well congratz then :) havent been on in about a month as least, had a rough few weeks :P had exams and 1 of my m8s died in the middle of doing exams.

when u gonna be a hall of famer then..? u got my vote anyway :)

i finnaly cracked 180ibs aswell just 2 let u know :) ill have 2 let fire know considering he insulted my weight...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gucks

lol, well congratz then :) havent been on in about a month as least, had a rough few weeks :P had exams and 1 of my m8s died in the middle of doing exams.

when u gonna be a hall of famer then..? u got my vote anyway :)

i finnaly cracked 180ibs aswell just 2 let u know :) ill have 2 let fire know considering he insulted my weight...

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Thanks bro!

Jeez, what happened to your mate? WTF?? Literally in the middle of the exams?

I have a while before becoming a HOF'er... have to get Vet status first. If i'm promoted again, it'll be early next year. So, I have about 2 years before HOF'er! Baby steps! Thanks for your vote!

Congrats on 180lbs. I wouldn't mess with Fire right now - he's all dieted down for a comp and probably cranky as hell, lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

. I base bumping up my weight on my FIRST (working) set, not last. Your first set is the set that really counts IMO - you are the best you're going to be for that exercise. Every subsequent set, you're a bit more degradated. This is why i've never seen much value in pyramid sets, and why i've always used reverse pyramids as it just makes sense to me.

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I consider the first 2 sets more of a warm up to the working weight for squats deadlifts and bench. I can see your point on the others, like curls and rows.

^ ^ I don't get this at all. Are you doing warm up sets at all? I'm referring to counting my first working set, I don't count warm up sets for anything.

little_dude,

start this thursday and stick with it for 2 months while you dial in your diet. See what happens.

Mondays and thursdays are push days: Chest/shoulders/triceps/abs
Tuesdays and fridays are pull days: legs/back/biceps
Mondays and Tuesdays will be your heavy days and thursdays and fridays your light days, you will perform similar exercises but the rep range will change.
always start your workout by jumping rope for one minute solid, when you can do that easily then start adding 15 second increments to your warmup until you are at five minutes of rope jumping and then just stay with that.

Mon:
Chest:
Flat Bench, warm-up sets, these should be three rep warm up sets with progressive weight until you reach your workout weight, then three sets of 8 - 12 reps, go to failure each time, go up in weight when you are hitting all three sets 12 or more reps
Incline Bench, no warm up sets here, your chest is warmed up from the flat bench, three workout sets, same rep range.
flat dumbell flyes - this is not a mass exercise, it is a stretching exercise, the weight does not matter, as a matter of fact it should be just heavy enough to help your arms get a full stretch at the bottom, too heavy and you can cause yourself damage, slow and controlled with a full stretch at the bottom and a pause, when you contract the muscle bring the weights as close together as possible without touching them, and then turn the pinkies in towards each other while feeling the middle of your chest come together.
Shoulders:
The front's of your shoulders have been thoroughly worked here, so we'll move onto the tops and rears.
Military press: sets and reps the same as the bench press, machine or barbell, depending on your gym
Dumbbell Shrugs. Pause at the top and bottom, straight up and down, don't roll your shoulders, put the tops of your shoulders into your ears, I like going progressively higher in poundages within the rep range until I can't properly perform the exercise.
Rear shoulder raises. Bend at the waist, pic a very...very...very...light weight, 5 lbs to start, lean over parallel with the ground with your knees bent and look in front of you at the wall/mirror, keeping your elbows locked and arms straight down in front of you raise them out to your sides with your pinkies up towards the ceiling. At the top of the movement you want them to be about 3 inches above your shoulders and even with your eyeballs, trust me, this hurts and is effective. 8-12 reps, pause at the top.
Triceps:
bodyweighted dips to failure, three sets
skull crushers, three sets 8-12 reps
Abs:
Crunches 3 sets 51 reps
Tues:
Legs:
Squats: progressive warm up sets of 11 reps until workout weight, then three sets of 15 - 20 reps, same philosophy as the bench, go to failure, increase weight when you are performing over 20 reps for each of the three sets, when you add the weight it should drop you down to only being able to accomplish 15 reps on your last set.
Straight legged dead lifts super setted with standing calf raises or toe extensions, stiff legged deads should be done in the 15-20 rep range and calves should be done in sets of 21's, 7 toes in heels out, 7 heels in toes out and 7 straight on.
Back:
Lat Pull downs 3 sets 8-12 reps, followed by bent over barbell rows 3 sets, 8-12 reps
Biceps:
Straight bar curls, full range 3 sets 8-12 reps, concentration curls 3 sets 8-12 reps

Wed: cardio

Thurs:
Chest:
Incline dumbbell presses, start with a light weight 40 lbs for example, and perform 12-15 reps, then increase by 5 lbs each time within the same rep range, you want to do five work sets, so make sure you are ending at a weight that you can barely get those 12 reps with on your fifth set
Flat dumbbell presses, your chest is already warmed up, go with three workout sets in that 12-15 rep range
Shoulders:
Rear raises again, just like last time except this time work in the 15-20 rep range
Upright rows, I do this for the traps on shoulder day, 3 sets of 25 reps, do not let the weight go all the way down at the bottom, slow and controlled, no lower than the belly button at the bottom of the motion and almost touch the chin at the top, keep the weight in close to the body the entire time, I use the ez curl bar for this.
Triceps:
rope pushdowns, 3 sets 25 reps, followed by bench dips, three sets to failure
Abs:
Bicycles: 3 sets 51 reps, Hanging leg raises: 3 sets 51 reps
Fri:
Back:
Deadlifts 3 sets 15-20 reps, because it is deadlift day we start with back.
Legs:
Do a superset for legs, going from machine to machine to machine for the three exercises for the three sets leg extension/leg curl/toe presses, start all over, little or no rest between sets.
biceps:
dumbbell hammer curls, 3 sets, 12-15 reps followed by dumbbell preacher curls, 3 sets 8-12 reps.

Sat: Cardio

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Originally Posted by tbody66

little_dude,

start this thursday and stick with it for 2 months while you dial in your diet. See what happens.

Mondays and thursdays are push days: Chest/shoulders/triceps/abs
Tuesdays and fridays are pull days: legs/back/biceps
Mondays and Tuesdays will be your heavy days and thursdays and fridays your light days, you will perform similar exercises but the rep range will change.
always start your workout by jumping rope for one minute solid, when you can do that easily then start adding 15 second increments to your warmup until you are at five minutes of rope jumping and then just stay with that.

So it is less weight on thu and fri then, but more reps.

Mon:
Chest:
Flat Bench, warm-up sets, these should be three rep warm up sets with progressive weight until you reach your workout weight, then three sets of 8 - 12 reps, go to failure each time, go up in weight when you are hitting all three sets 12 or more reps

so are you saying i should go over the 12 reps (if I feel that I can), or when u say 'go to failure' do u mean i should do as many as i can if i cant make the 8-12 reps. Also how much recovery time between sets (I initially thought 1 min max)

Tues:
Legs:
Straight legged dead lifts super setted with standing calf raises or toe extensions, stiff legged deads should be done in the 15-20 rep range and calves should be done in sets of 21's, 7 toes in heels out, 7 heels in toes out and 7 straight on.

How many sets for calf in total, 3 sets of 21? Also i dont fully understand the whole toes in heels out (Ive never really trained legs before), can u explain the last line please.

Back:
Lat Pull downs 3 sets 8-12 reps, followed by bent over barbell rows 3 sets, 8-12 reps

Thurs:
Chest:
Incline dumbbell presses, start with a light weight 40 lbs for example, and perform 12-15 reps, then increase by 5 lbs each time within the same rep range, you want to do five work sets, so make sure you are ending at a weight that you can barely get those 12 reps with on your fifth set

I hope u mean 40 lbs in total (as in two 20lbs bumbbells), because 40lbs dumbbells isnt light (well for someone my size anyway :P)

Shoulders:
Rear raises again, just like last time except this time work in the 15-20 rep range

So I assume I should be using less weight for it this time (as their is more reps)

Fri:
Back:
Deadlifts 3 sets 15-20 reps, because it is deadlift day we start with back.

Seeing as this is typically a heavy lift type of workout how come it is being done on Fri instead of Tue, or is it just so the core lifts are seperated (as squats are done on tue)

Legs:
Do a superset for legs, going from machine to machine to machine for the three exercises for the three sets leg extension/leg curl/toe presses, start all over, little or no rest between sets.

So how many reps would that be i.e. over 20?

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^^^ Thanks for all the help, more questions in bold :P Also how long do think the overall workouts should be (i.e. min/max for Mon/Tue or Thu/Fri). also how much rest time in general after sets do you recommend? Thanks again TBody for taking the time to go into detail as well, its a great workout :D

And thanks to gbrice, gucks and nephets for the input as well

start this thursday and stick with it for 2 months while you dial in your diet. See what happens.

Mondays and thursdays are push days: Chest/shoulders/triceps/abs
Tuesdays and fridays are pull days: legs/back/biceps
Mondays and Tuesdays will be your heavy days and thursdays and fridays your light days, you will perform similar exercises but the rep range will change.
always start your workout by jumping rope for one minute solid, when you can do that easily then start adding 15 second increments to your warmup until you are at five minutes of rope jumping and then just stay with that.

So it is less weight on thu and fri then, but more reps.

Mon:
Chest:
Flat Bench, warm-up sets, these should be three rep warm up sets with progressive weight until you reach your workout weight, then three sets of 8 - 12 reps, go to failure each time, go up in weight when you are hitting all three sets 12 or more reps

so are you saying i should go over the 12 reps (if I feel that I can), or when u say 'go to failure' do u mean i should do as many as i can if i cant make the 8-12 reps. Also how much recovery time between sets (I initially thought 1 min max)
Go to absolute failure each time, if you can't do eight the weight is too heavy if you do more than twelve it is too light, adjust accordingly and keep a log so you'll have a better idea what weight you should be using
Tues:
Legs:
Straight legged dead lifts super setted with standing calf raises or toe extensions, stiff legged deads should be done in the 15-20 rep range and calves should be done in sets of 21's, 7 toes in heels out, 7 heels in toes out and 7 straight on.

How many sets for calf in total, 3 sets of 21? Also i dont fully understand the whole toes in heels out (Ive never really trained legs before), can u explain the last line please.yes three sets of 21 reps each, if you were to just stand normally or place your feet on the edge of a leg press machine, where only your toes were on the platform your heels would basically be straight back/behind your toes, picture them on a line, if you turn your toes in and kick your heels out it would be like walking pigeon toed, perform your first seven reps like this, basically your toes almost touching and your heels being over a foot apart, then switch it, with your toes out, over a foot apart for the next seven reps, and your heels touching, then your toes and your heels both a foot apart for your last seven reps

Back:
Lat Pull downs 3 sets 8-12 reps, followed by bent over barbell rows 3 sets, 8-12 reps

Thurs:
Chest:
Incline dumbbell presses, start with a light weight 40 lbs for example, and perform 12-15 reps, then increase by 5 lbs each time within the same rep range, you want to do five work sets, so make sure you are ending at a weight that you can barely get those 12 reps with on your fifth set

I hope u mean 40 lbs in total (as in two 20lbs bumbbells), because 40lbs dumbbells isnt light (well for someone my size anyway :P) I didn't mean that, I meant 40's, I would use 60 lb dumbbells if I was going to perform 5 sets of 12-15 reps with dumbbells on Incline Bench.
Shoulders:
Rear raises again, just like last time except this time work in the 15-20 rep range

So I assume I should be using less weight for it this time (as their is more reps)
Yes
Fri:
Back:
Deadlifts 3 sets 15-20 reps, because it is deadlift day we start with back.

Seeing as this is typically a heavy lift type of workout how come it is being done on Fri instead of Tue, or is it just so the core lifts are seperated (as squats are done on tue)
The amount of weight and number of reps make it light day, and yes because squats and deads are so draining on the system I would never recommend them during the same workout
Legs:
Do a superset for legs, going from machine to machine to machine for the three exercises for the three sets leg extension/leg curl/toe presses, start all over, little or no rest between sets.

So how many reps would that be i.e. over 20?
It would be 15-20 reps for each exercise, so 60 reps per set with no rest in between, but your muscle that you just worked is actually resting while you are working the opposing muscle group and your upper legs rest while you work your lower legs, so you are getting rest, just 180 reps in a row make you think you aren't, but soooooo many benefits from the super sets!
^^^ Thanks for all the help, more questions in bold :P Also how long do think the overall workouts should be (i.e. min/max for Mon/Tue or Thu/Fri). also how much rest time in general after sets do you recommend? Thanks again TBody for taking the time to go into detail as well, its a great workout

your entire workout each day should take between 45 minutes to an hour and 15 minutes, rest longer on heavy days between sets and shorter on light days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

Thanks bro!

Jeez, what happened to your mate? WTF?? Literally in the middle of the exams?

I have a while before becoming a HOF'er... have to get Vet status first. If i'm promoted again, it'll be early next year. So, I have about 2 years before HOF'er! Baby steps! Thanks for your vote!

Congrats on 180lbs. I wouldn't mess with Fire right now - he's all dieted down for a comp and probably cranky as hell, lol

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u might have heard about it, it was on the news over there. he fell off the roof of university of virginia.

ok so tbody and gbrice got you on some kind of work out routine that we can play with in a few months when you switch it up. now lets hear about the diet and sleep. im 20 y/o i know how hard it is for us youngins to get to bed

So what's the status little_dude? Have you started the program yet?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tbody66

So what's the status little_dude? Have you started the program yet?

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Haven't started yet. I will start 2moro, just still tuning out the diet, will post it up 2moro as well guys, thanks

Can't wait!

Ok guys, its a bit late, but i finally have a plan for my diet, please critique where you see fit.

Meal 1- Breakfast (10.30)
5 egg whites, 2 yolks, 1 cup of oats, 250ml of milk
550/40/55/22 (kcal,pro,carbs,fat)

Meal 2 (pre workout) (12.30)
grilled chicken breast sandwich (whole wheat bread), 1 apple
500/38/65/8

Post workout (2.30)
Whey Protein, 1 cup oats, 1 banana
400/40/75/10

Meal 3 (3.00)
1 tin of tuna (130g), pasta (1 cup),
400/30/40/5

Meal 4 - Dinner (6.00)
Spaghetti/chicken pasta/chicken and rice, veg (i.e. broccoli)
600/40/80/5

Meal 5 - (just a light meal after dinner) (9.00)
Chicken salad
200/30/5/4

Late Snack (10.30 onwards)
Protein shake, 500ml milk, cottage cheese (100g)
350/40/20/11

Total: 3000/258/340/65 in % about 39/51/10 (probably more fat than listed because I doubt it’s this low :P)

Macros aren’t obviously completely accurate (for each meal proteins and carbs are probably a few off)

Now I know it should be a 40/40/20 split so as I get into it I will add more protein and drop more carbs to even it out (or do something along those lines).

Also what is a good source of protein to replace one of the chicken meals (i will occasionally have steak instead sometimes) but instead of this (and tuna), any ideas?

Thanks for all the help so far guys.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Standby

ok so tbody and gbrice got you on some kind of work out routine that we can play with in a few months when you switch it up. now lets hear about the diet and sleep. im 20 y/o i know how hard it is for us youngins to get to bed

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Yeah I know it isn't recommended but tend to go to bed late an wake up late if ya get me. generally 1-2 am to 10-11am so I still will always atleast get my 8 hours a day :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by little_dude

Ok guys, its a bit late, but i finally have a plan for my diet, please critique where you see fit.

Meal 1- Breakfast (10.30)
5 egg whites, 2 yolks, 1 cup of oats, 250ml of milk
550/40/55/22 (kcal,pro,carbs,fat)
a good mutli and EFA supp in there aswell!

Meal 2 (pre workout) (12.30)
grilled chicken breast sandwich (whole wheat bread), 1 apple
500/38/65/8
would prefer brown rice or alternative unprocessed carb source.

Post workout (2.30)
Whey Protein, 1 cup oats, 1 banana
400/40/75/10

Meal 3 (3.00)
1 tin of tuna (130g), pasta (1 cup),
400/30/40/5
some veges in there, broccolli is always gd :)

Meal 4 - Dinner (6.00)
Spaghetti/chicken pasta/chicken and rice, veg (i.e. broccoli)
600/40/80/5

Meal 5 - (just a light meal after dinner) (9.00)
Chicken salad
200/30/5/4
this should a bit more substantial i think, its a good bit before bed so dont worry about carbs or anything, ur bulking. add a bit of good carbs in there
Late Snack (10.30 onwards)
Protein shake, 500ml milk, cottage cheese (100g)
350/40/20/11
is that a casein shake? it should be if it isnt. also you should have some EFA's here.

Total: 3000/258/340/65 in % about 39/51/10 (probably more fat than listed because I doubt it’s this low :P)

Macros aren’t obviously completely accurate (for each meal proteins and carbs are probably a few off)

Now I know it should be a 40/40/20 split so as I get into it I will add more protein and drop more carbs to even it out (or do something along those lines).

Also what is a good source of protein to replace one of the chicken meals (i will occasionally have steak instead sometimes) but instead of this (and tuna), any ideas?
salmon/turkey/eggs/lean ground beef. just a few suggestions. try the recipes forum for more ideas :)

Thanks for all the help so far guys.

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in bold, best of luck man! hope u make some good gains.

Hey Tbody what did you do for cardio (on wed and sat), anything specific, and for how long should the cardio sessions last?