Overtraining vs. Undertraining - What are the signs? * * DISCUSSION * *

I wanted to start this thread as a place to openly discuss both of these bodybuilding frustrations. What are the signs of each? No progress could be an indication of either, so how can you really tell if you're doing too much, or too little?

I'll start - most splits I see these days have you training each muscle group 1x a week. IMHO, 6 days rest is just too much, at least for me. I feel like i'm gtg after 3 days rest - i.e. workout Monday, same workout on Friday.

I know people will tell me that I must not be working hard enough/with enough intensity, or "do a leg workout with me and see if you still say that" but I can tell you I workout pretty damn hard and it's always the same.

HOWEVER - I have done 1x a week, 2x a week, high volume, lower volume, etc. and really haven't noticed much of a difference either way. Point being is that I don't ever see much development - so, I could be overtraining or undertraining (or something else completely) - and I really am stuck on which.

So what are some signs that are NOT the same?

i know i over trained when i feel like i got hit by a semi the next morning. also if my joints hurt to bad the next morning i know that exercise is not for me ex.flys.

i wont notice during the week if i have been overtrained, but i will the next time i go in to do that same workout. personally i like the 1x a week routine but i know its not best for everyone. so if i do a chest routine on monday, if i go back that next monday and am struggling then i know i overtrained and need to take time off.

Add more, different sets. And switch up order of workout. Works for me on 1x/week

Training large muscle groups 1x a week works the best for me; however, I will gladly train a small muscle group 2x a week if I feel like it needs more development.

I know for a fact there is no way I can perform my leg workout 2x a week, it would kill me, seriously. My back is my best body part so it would be pointless to work on it 2x a week. I can do chest 2x a week but then it messes up my entire workout schedule for the week so I won't. However, I often find myself training my biceps 2x a week, once after back training and again with triceps, 3 days in between feels enough for full recovery. The reason why I like training my biceps 2x a week besides knowing that it needs more work is that I like hitting it from different angles by incoorperating several exercises, which 2x a week allows me more than 1x only. It has worked so far is all I can say...

So are you guys saying for arms only 1x a week? not 3x's a week? are you serious? I always thought 3 x's a week.

12 most common symptoms accociated with overtraining.

•Reduced or insignificant strength and size gains
•Weight loss- particularly muscle mass
•Swollen lymph nodes
•Little or no training motivation
•Increased irritability
•Insomnia
•Frequent colds and infections
•Elevated heart raise, especially upon waking up
•Presistent tendinitis
•Constant fatigue
•Tremors or twitches

While one or two of these symptoms might not indicate that you are overtraining, three or more probably does.

I am suspect there is a direct correlation/causation between muscle soreness, DOMS, and overtraining. I find that when I workout/eat properly I am sore the next day, less sore the day after, and barely tender to the touch the day after that. If I overtrain I am not sore the day after and then really sore the day after that.

If you are training frequently you are not undertraining. Just being conservative. Not like you are wasting any workouts or setting yourself back. I'd rather under than overtrain.

Once every 4 days for me.

I'm always sore somewhere.


Frequency is dictated by volume.

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Originally Posted by terraj

Once every 4 days for me.

I'm always sore somewhere.


Frequency is dictated by volume.

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Exactly^^

Overtraining is not somthing you can simply 'do' to yourself in one gym session...

True overtraining is CNS overtraining.... This is a cumlative effect which occurs over an extended period of time...

Constsntly train too intense, for too long, with too many sets, will not enough sleep, and not enough food and you will become overtrained....

You could go into the gym and do 50 sets for chest.... Would you be overtrained if you then followed your normal routine in the week... NO!

If you whent into the gym and did 50 sets for chest and then when in the next day and did 50 sets for legs and then when in and did 50 sets for back then eventually you will become overtrained....

If you want good advise on how to periodize your training routine to effectivly periodize your routine to prevent overtraining I could talk or day.... Or I could link you to Ronnie Rowland's 'Slingshot Training' thread...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-to-read-this!

Personally I think that training the whole body 2 x every 7-8 days over 4 training session is optimal....

Remember that the more often you train the less sets you do per workout...

Day 1 - Lower Body
Day 2 - Upper Body
Day 3 - Rest
Day 4 - Rest
Day 5 - Lower Body
Day 6 - Upper Body
Day 7 - Rest
Day 8 - Rest


Begin back on day 1.... You could remove the 8th day so that it fits into a week... Tha is what I do to keep my routine regular

also, an hour later then another few hours latter i try and flex the body part i worked out. if it gets tired easily and i cant hold it long then i know i hit it good. if im to tired to even try or dont even think about it... good chance i did too much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SlimmerMe

So are you guys saying for arms only 1x a week? not 3x's a week? are you serious? I always thought 3 x's a week.

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3x a week arm routine sounds like the optimal training method for slowly killing arms. EOD arm training would only lead to muscle atrophy...

Base - one day I may run a routine like that. I was doing something similar, but I never feel like i'm working enough. I am stuck in that high volume mentality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baseline_9

Exactly^^

Overtraining is not somthing you can simply 'do' to yourself in one gym session...

True overtraining is CNS overtraining.... This is a cumlative effect which occurs over an extended period of time...

Constsntly train too intense, for too long, with too many sets, will not enough sleep, and not enough food and you will become overtrained....

You could go into the gym and do 50 sets for chest.... Would you be overtrained if you then followed your normal routine in the week... NO!

If you whent into the gym and did 50 sets for chest and then when in the next day and did 50 sets for legs and then when in and did 50 sets for back then eventually you will become overtrained....

If you want good advise on how to periodize your training routine to effectivly periodize your routine to prevent overtraining I could talk or day.... Or I could link you to Ronnie Rowland's 'Slingshot Training' thread...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-to-read-this!

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exactly. Overtraining has become a buzz-term for people who have been lifting for 2 months, which is the only 2 months they have lifted in their whole lives, and want to sound like they know what they are talking about. If the muscle is ready to be trained again and you don't train it then you are under-training, probably makes up 99.735% of the people who lift, .26 % do it right and .005% over-train. IMO.

From the age of 18 up until 25 (last year lol), I was doing 3 different press exercises for chest. I started with flat, then incline, then decline. After that, I went over to weighted dips, then flys. My strength was actually great, but my chest would NEVER grow. My arms (triceps) and shoulders grew very nicely, but my chest was always lagging behind. Just this past year, with the help of some of the guys in the workout forum, I found that I may be over-training my chest. I, then, changed my workout to: flat bench, incline bench, then flys; and THAT'S IT!! It doesn't sound like much, but I've noticed that my chest has come along nicely in the past several months. Not saying that this will work for everyone, but I believe I've found my personal 'sweet spot'. Sometimes less is more.

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Originally Posted by Turkish Juicer

3x a week arm routine sounds like the optimal training method for slowly killing arms. EOD arm training would only lead to muscle atrophy...

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So 3x's a week is good? and not? is this what you are saying? or not? not clear.....please elaborate. Thanks.

Slimmer, the rule is that the larger the muscle group the longer the recovery time, muscles take from 48 - 96 hours to recover (provided the body's nutritional and rest requirements are met) Arms are small muscle groups(we won't talk about forearms or calves which are primarily slow twitch( http://weighttraining.about.com/od/g...uscle_type.htm ) and must be trained differently. We focus on fast twitch/white/type 2 muscle fibers in weight lifting/body building. So if your muscles are recovered and ready to be trained (48 hrs for arm muscles/shoulders/and even chest for some) and you don't train them then you miss an opportunity for growth. This would basically mean that, depending on your percentage of potential acheived, you should be training the smaller muscles at least 2 and possibly even 3 times a week. Almost anyone under 25 years of age could benefit from training every muscle group more than once in a weeks time. Due to the non/under-developed stage of their total potential, the fact that the body is producing the necessary growth chemicals to accelerate recovery and it's incredible ability to rapidly adapt to more and more physical stressors.

When I was in high school I bench pressed to failure every day for two weeks and added 2 inches to my chest and 20 pounds to my max. Now I switch from training all body parts twice a week to only hitting arms twice a week, no matter the program I hit calves three times a week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SlimmerMe

So 3x's a week is good? and not? is this what you are saying? or not? not clear.....please elaborate. Thanks.

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He is suggesting it is a bad thing...

However a statment like that holds no weight because there are too many variables that have not been taken into consideration...


Drugs
Volume
Intensity
Experience
Age
Training routine
Exercises


You cannot make a blanket statement like that without knowing the variables...

While I have your attention how many days a week should I do this routine below:
With the ones I do 25 times, they are a bit easier and the ones with 15 times, I push to get to that 15.....THANKS!

WORKOUT:
Machine:
Lat pull downs: 25 x2
Arm Extension: 25 x2
Chest Press: 25 x2
Fly: 15 x 2
Arm Curl: 15 x2
Free weights:
Military Press: 15
Biceps: 15
Curl: 15
Triceps: 15
Side bends: 15
FLOOR w/ free weights
Chest overhead: 15
Arms ext overhead: 15
Triceps: 15

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bigd89

12 most common symptoms accociated with overtraining.

•Reduced or insignificant strength and size gains
•Weight loss- particularly muscle mass
•Swollen lymph nodes
•Little or no training motivation
•Increased irritability
•Insomnia
•Frequent colds and infections
•Elevated heart raise, especially upon waking up
•Presistent tendinitis
•Constant fatigue
•Tremors or twitches

While one or two of these symptoms might not indicate that you are overtraining, three or more probably does.

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All highlighted are my symptoms of OVERTRAINING

Nice one big....

LoL minus the tremors or twitches, I have all those symptoms and do not think i'm overtrained! Who knows though!

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Originally Posted by gbrice75

LoL minus the tremors or twitches, I have all those symptoms and do not think i'm overtrained! Who knows though!

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your also under other stresses in life. Those will cause same effects G