How much protein can the body use in a single meal?

**baseline_9** · 06-01-2011, 01:04 PM

Article sourced from Alan Aragon - Muscle Munch

UNDER THE MICROSCOPE: HOW MUCH PROTEIN CAN THE BODY USE IN A SINGLE MEAL?

MONDAY, MAY 23, 2011

INTRODUCTION

A longstanding belief in fitness circles is that the body can only use a certain amount of protein per meal, and the excess is either oxidized or excreted. The ballpark range thrown around is 20-30 grams, with 30 grams being perhaps the most common figure.

This guideline has led many trainees to go through the pains of consuming multiple doses of protein throughout the day, banking that it will maximize muscle anabolism or muscle retention.

Well, true or not, this concept fits in nicely with another longstanding fitness “rule” that you have to eat at least six times per day in order to keep the body’s metabolism revving high. Since the meal frequency and metabolism dogma has been thoroughly debunked [1-5], it’s time to dig into the topic of whether there’s a limit to effective protein dosing, and if so, what that limit might be.

LOOKING AT SIMPLE LOGIC FIRST

Let’s imagine an experiment involving two relatively lean 200 lb individuals. For the purposes of this illustration, I’ll assign a daily amount of protein known to adequately support the needs of the athletic population. We’ll give Person A 150 g protein spread over five meals at 30 g each. We’ll give Person B the same amount of protein, but in a single meal. Let’s say that this meal consists of a 16 oz steak, chased with a shake containing two scoops of protein powder.

If we really believed that only 30 g protein can be handled by the body in a single meal, then Person B would eventually run into protein deficiency symptoms because he supposedly is only absorbing a total of 30 g out of the 150 g we’re giving him. At 30 g/day, he’s only getting 0.33 g/kg of bodyweight, which isn’t even half of the already-low RDA of 0.8 g/kg. If the body worked this way, the human species would have quickly become extinct. The human body is more efficient and effective than we give it credit for.

The body will take all the sweet time it needs to effectively digest and absorb just about whatever dose you give it. Person A will have shorter digestion periods per meal in order to effectively absorb and utilize the small meals. Person B will have a longer digestion period in order to effectively absorb and utilize the large meal. While the truth in this logic seems self-evident, the important question is whether or not it’s supported by scientific research. Let’s look at the evidence, starting with immediate-effect (acute) studies, then move on to the longer-term trials.

RESEARCH EXAMINING SPEED OF ABSORBTION

A thorough literature review by Bilsborough and Mann compiled data from studies by various investigators who measured the absorption rates of various protein sources [6]. Oddly, an amino acid mixture designed to mimic the composition of pork tenderloin made the top spot, at 10 g/hour, while whey took a close second at 8-10 g/hour. Other proteins fell in their respective spots below the top two, with little rhyme or reason behind the outcomes. As a matter of trivia, raw egg protein was the most slowly absorbed of them all at 1.3 g/hour.

It’s important to note that these data have some serious limitations. A major one is the variance of the methods used to determine the absorption rates (i.e., intravenous infusion, oral ingestion, ileal ingestion). Most of the methods are just too crude or far-fetched for serious consideration. Another limitation is that these figures could be skewed depending upon their concentration in solution, which can affect their rate of gastric evacuation. Another factor to consider is the timing of ingestion relative to exercise and how that might differentially affect absorption rates. Finally, short-term data leaves a lot open to question.

SHORT-TERM RESEARCH SUPPORTING THE MAGIC LIMIT

I’ve heard many folks parrot that the maximal anabolic effect of a single protein dose is limited to 20 grams, citing recent work by Moore and colleagues [7]. In this study’s 4-hour post-exercise test period, 40 g protein did not elicit a greater anabolic response than 20 g. I’d interpret these outcomes with caution. Fundamentally speaking, protein utilization can differ according to muscle mass. The requirements of a 140-lb person will differ markedly from someone who’s a lean 200. Additionally, a relatively low amount of total volume was used (12 sets total). Typical training bouts usually involve more than one muscle group and are commonly at least double that volume, which can potentially increase the demand for nutrient uptake. Finally, the conclusion of the authors is questionable. They state explicitly,

“…we speculate that no more than 5-6 times daily could one ingest this amount (~20 g) of protein and expect muscle protein synthesis to be maximally stimulated.”

So, they’re implying that 100-120 grams of protein per day is maximal for promoting muscle growth. Wait a minute, what? Based on both the bulk of the research evidence and numerous field observations, this is simply false [8,9].

In another recent study, Symons and colleagues compared the 5-hour response of a moderate serving of lean beef containing 30 g protein with a large serving containing 90 g protein [10]. The smaller serving increased protein synthesis by approximately 50%, and the larger serving caused no further increase in protein synthesis, despite being triple the dose. The researchers concluded that the ingestion of more than 30 g protein in a single meal does not further enhance muscle protein synthesis. While their conclusion indeed supports the outcomes of their short-term study, it’s pretty easy to predict the outcomes in muscle size and strength if we compared a total daily protein dose of 90 g with 30 g over a longer trial period, let alone one involving a structured exercise protocol. This brings me to the crucial point that acute outcomes merely provide grounds for hypothesis. It’s not completely meaningless, but it’s far from conclusive without examining the long-term effects.

LONGER-TERM RESEARCH CHALLENGING THE MAGIC LIMIT

If we were to believe the premise that a 20-30 g dose of protein yields a maximal anabolic effect, then it follows that any excess beyond this dose would be wasted. On the contrary, the body is smarter than that. In a 14-day trial, Arnal and colleagues found no difference in fat-free mass or nitrogen retention between consuming 79% of the day’s protein needs (roughly 54 g) in one meal, versus the same amount spread across four meals [11].

Notably, this study was done on young female adults whose fat-free mass averaged 40.8 kg (89.8 lb). Considering that most non-sedentary males have considerably more lean mass than the female subjects used in the aforementioned trial, it’s plausible that much more than 54 g protein in a single meal can be efficiently processed for anabolic and/or anti-catabolic purposes. If we extrapolated the protein dose used in this study (79% of 1.67g/kg) to the average adult male, it would be roughly 85-95 g or even more, depending on just how close someone is to the end of the upper limits of muscular size.

When Arnal and colleagues applied the same protocol to the elderly population, the single-dose treatment actually caused better muscle protein retention than the multiple-dose treatment [12]. This raises the possibility that as we age, larger protein feedings might be necessary to achieve the same effect on protein retention as lesser amounts in our youth.

IF RESEARCH NAILING THE COFFIN SHUT?

Perhaps the strongest case against the idea of a dosing limit beyond which anabolism or muscle retention can occur is the recent intermittent fasting (IF) research, particularly the trials with a control group on a conventional diet. For example, Soeters and colleagues compared two weeks of IF involving 20-hour fasting cycles with a conventional diet [13]. Despite the IF group’s consumption of an average of 101 g protein in a 4-hour window, there was no difference in preservation of lean mass and muscle protein between groups.

In another example, Stote and colleagues actually reported an improvement in body composition (including an increase in lean mass) after 8 weeks in the IF group consuming one meal per day, where roughly 86 g protein was ingested in a 4-hour window [14]. Interestingly, the conventional group consuming three meals spread throughout the day showed no significant body composition improvements.

Keep in mind that bioelectrical impedance (BIA) was used to determine body composition, so these outcomes should be viewed with caution. I’ve been highly critical of this study in the past, and I still am. Nevertheless, it cannot be completely written off and must be factored into the body of evidence against the idea of a magic protein dose limit.

CONCLUSION & APPLICATION

Based on the available evidence, it’s false to assume that the body can only use a certain amount of protein per meal. Studies examining short-term effects have provided hints towards what might be an optimal protein dose for maximizing anabolism, but trials drawn out over longer periods haven’t supported this idea. So, is there a limit to how much protein per meal can be effectively used? Yes there is, but this limit is likely similar to the amount that’s maximally effective in an entire day. What’s the most protein that the body can effectively use in an entire day? The short answer is, a lot more than 20-30 g. The long answer is, it depends on several factors. In most cases it’s not too far from a gram per pound in drug-free trainees, given that adequate total calories are provided [8,9].

In terms of application, I’ve consistently observed the effectiveness of having approximately a quarter of your target bodyweight in both the pre- and post-exercise meal. Note: target bodyweight is a surrogate index of lean mass, and I use that to avoid making skewed calculations in cases where individuals are markedly over- or underweight. This dose surpasses the amounts seen to cause a maximal anabolic response but doesn’t impinge upon the rest of the day’s protein allotment, which can be distributed as desired. On days off from training, combine or split up your total protein allotment according to your personal preference and digestive tolerance. I realize that freedom and flexibility are uncommon terms in physique culture, but maybe it’s time for a paradigm shift.

In sum, view all information – especially gym folklore and short-term research – with caution. Don’t buy into the myth that protein won’t get used efficiently unless it’s dosed sparingly throughout the day. Hopefully, future research will definitively answer how different dosing schemes with various protein types affect relevant endpoints such as size and strength. In the mean time, feel free to eat the whole steak and drink the whole shake

**jtuner77** · 06-01-2011, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the post Baseline...

**-KJ-** · 06-01-2011, 01:22 PM

Interesting read Base... Will have to read again to take it all in and get a good understanding before i make my opinion known lol.

**gbrice75** · 06-01-2011, 02:48 PM

Base, you know i'm all about this. It's one of the fundamental principles of what IF is built upon. If our bodies could only handle X amount of protein per sitting, we would have gone extinct a long time ago. We were built to withstand famine. Amino's are released throughout the entire digestion process, which takes several hours, upwards of 12 or more depending on the source. It's not as if a meal is ingested, there's a huge dump of amino's, and then 3 hours later you have zero amino's in your bloodstream. Preposterous!

**baseline_9** · 06-01-2011, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Base, you know i'm all about this. It's one of the fundamental principles of what IF is built upon. If our bodies could only handle X amount of protein per sitting, we would have gone extinct a long time ago. We were built to withstand famine. Amino's are released throughout the entire digestion process, which takes several hours, upwards of 12 or more depending on the source. It's not as if a meal is ingested, there's a huge dump of amino's, and then 3 hours later you have zero amino's in your bloodstream. Preposterous!

I agree 100% GB

People seem to believe you must eat 6 meals a day or you will end up eating your own muscle to survive...

It is simply not possible guys.....

And I love the big word at the end.... Very passionate!

**JohnnyVegas** · 06-01-2011, 03:07 PM

I have been reading similar stories for years. I never freak if my meals get close together of if I have to double up on one in an emergency. I think 5 - 6 meals is optimal, but not necessary. Good stuff!

**Swifto** · 06-01-2011, 03:14 PM

This article is written by Alan Aragon (to give more accurate credit) back in Feb 2010.

He's certainly an authority when it comes to nutrition, as is Lyle McDonald.

**baseline_9** · 06-01-2011, 03:14 PM

I would honestly have no problem with eating 3 meals per day (when gaining weight)....

You would simply need to be a bit more wise with your protein sources....

You could utilise different protein sources to give an extended amino acid release, for example...

Whey, Egg whites, Chicken, Beef

If you were to mix all of the above into one meal you could eat 3 meals a day and have some what of a stable amino acid concentration in the blood....

You could also supplement with BCAA's to keep the concentration up

**baseline_9** · 06-01-2011, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

This article is written by Alan Aragon (to give more accurate credit) back in Feb 2010.

He's certainly an authority when it comes to nutrition, as is Lyle McDonald.

I have now added that, thanks m8

And yes I agree, anything to do with anything I always look to Lyle McDonald's site.... Body recomposition dot com

**gbrice75** · 06-01-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

I agree 100% GB

People seem to believe you must eat 6 meals a day or you will end up eating your own muscle to survive...

It is simply not possible guys.....

And I love the big word at the end.... Very passionate!

Thank you! =P

Originally Posted by baseline_9

I would honestly have no problem with eating 3 meals per day (when gaining weight)....

You would simply need to be a bit more wise with your protein sources....

You could utilise different protein sources to give an extended amino acid release, for example...

Whey, Egg whites, Chicken, Beef

If you were to mix all of the above into one meal you could eat 3 meals a day and have some what of a stable amino acid concentration in the blood....

You could also supplement with BCAA's to keep the concentration up

TBH, I don't even believe you need to be that meticulous. Provided you're getting nearly all of your protein from whole food sources, I think you'd be fine and wouldn't even have to think twice. I break my fast with a 50g shake of blended proteins (majority is whey) for a quick 'burst', but the rest of my day is chicken and beef, sometimes fish. No more casein shake or cottage cheese before bed, etc. 8oz of beef at 3pm will easily keep me good for 12 hours, not to mention another 8oz of chicken breast at 7pm, so I have no worries. Strength and energy has increased for me since eating this way; completely the opposite outcome of what the 'eat every 3 hours' parrots (of which I was admittedly one) would expect.

Originally Posted by baseline_9

I have now added that, thanks m8

And yes I agree, anything to do with anything I always look to Lyle McDonald's site.... Body recomposition dot com

x3, love Lyle's work and site.

**Twist** · 06-01-2011, 09:50 PM

IF is being taken too far lately. 6 meals a day is a guideline and not a requirement. This site now seems to be leaning the opposite direction into the "Don't eat 6 meals per day" end of the spectrum. Suggesting people eat 6 small meals is a lot better for newbs than saying eat only 3, 2, 1 etc for many reasons.

As for aminos not running out of aminos, the same can be said for fat stores, glycogen etc. So if you are going to go that route then timing doesn't matter at all with any macro. It's better safe than sorry when it comes to protein intake so 6 meals is a better recommendation than less meals when it comes to protein intake. When giving advice to someone nobody should suggest doing something less optimal without a notice about the other way of doing things.

The article basically states that nothing new has been discovered? I just read the conclusion.

**gbrice75** · 06-02-2011, 03:32 AM

^ ^ I'm guessing this is directed at me seeing as i've been doing alot of talking about IF around here lately. Even if it isn't, i'll take the liberty to answer to it.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'taken too far'. IF has piqued some interest here lately, so what? What's wrong with people being informed that being a slave to the kitchen and clock isn't their only option? Don't get me wrong; I haven't completely jumped ship to where I knock frequent meals; my point is and has always been getting away from this idea that you MUST in order to achieve your goals. That is simply not the case. I agree that frequent feedings is better in some cases, newbs being one of them. This is more psychological than anything else though. It helps people who aren't seasoned dieters to abstain from overeating for one. I have not and would not recommend IF dieting to a newb, unless the circumstances called for it (simply could not manage to eat for an extended period of time due to work, etc). Again, I don't feel putting information out there for people to explore their options is irresponsible. In fact, I believe the opposite to be true.

Originally Posted by Twist

When giving advice to someone nobody should suggest doing something less optimal without a notice about the other way of doing things.

What are you referring to that's less optimal? IF? Based on what? I realize you/your client had a bad experience with it, but that's 1 example to 100 people who are experiencing great results. As for the general statement, I would have said "nobody should suggest doing something without a notice about the other way of doing things". With that statement, I couldn't agree more. That's exactly why there is more and more info to the contrary of the frequent meals school around here lately. Present information, let people educate themselves, experiment, and eventually find what works best for them.

**baseline_9** · 06-02-2011, 03:58 AM

Ur right twist....

I eat 6 meals a day.... That works for me...

Would I feel like I'm not eating a BB diet if I was consuming all that food in 3 meals per day? No it would not bother me at all...

Some times at the weekends I eat less frequently... I just double up on my foods... Simple

**Swifto** · 06-02-2011, 06:38 AM

I eat 4-5 solid meals with 2 shakes.

**baseline_9** · 06-02-2011, 06:52 AM

ATM I'm eating 4 meals and two lots of...

60g whey, 100g oats

I recently made up a batch of beef jerky which turned out great...

I will be making another load this weekend as it is a great alternative to a shake that can be eaten easily even while driving....

For menit is great for a snack in the middle of the night when I get called out and come home starving...

**csavage0** · 06-02-2011, 10:58 AM

could you site these studys and where you got them from baseline? I would like to read them. Good post.

**Twist** · 06-02-2011, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

^ ^ I'm guessing this is directed at me seeing as i've been doing alot of talking about IF around here lately. Even if it isn't, i'll take the liberty to answer to it.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'taken too far'. IF has piqued some interest here lately, so what? What's wrong with people being informed that being a slave to the kitchen and clock isn't their only option? Don't get me wrong; I haven't completely jumped ship to where I knock frequent meals; my point is and has always been getting away from this idea that you MUST in order to achieve your goals. That is simply not the case. I agree that frequent feedings is better in some cases, newbs being one of them. This is more psychological than anything else though. It helps people who aren't seasoned dieters to abstain from overeating for one. I have not and would not recommend IF dieting to a newb, unless the circumstances called for it (simply could not manage to eat for an extended period of time due to work, etc). Again, I don't feel putting information out there for people to explore their options is irresponsible. In fact, I believe the opposite to be true.

What are you referring to that's less optimal? IF? Based on what? I realize you/your client had a bad experience with it, but that's 1 example to 100 people who are experiencing great results. As for the general statement, I would have said "nobody should suggest doing something without a notice about the other way of doing things". With that statement, I couldn't agree more. That's exactly why there is more and more info to the contrary of the frequent meals school around here lately. Present information, let people educate themselves, experiment, and eventually find what works best for them.

It wasn't necessarily directed at you. It seems every time I sign on there is talk about eating less meals. If you notice I never talk about my experience with IF because I didn't do any sort of accurate study and there were way too many variables being changed (like the introduction of more carbs) to say that IF didn't do what I wanted it to.

There is nothing wrong with people looking into other aspects of dieting. Of course I think that putting info up about it and informing people of all the ways to diet is the best thing to do for sure. I just wanna make sure that the board stays exactly the way it is. We present things and research about them, try them out, talk about experiences etc. One thing great about this board is that it discusses many different kinds of dieting techniques (just like you said above) and we let people decide for themselves. It would be a shame if we got too caught up in any one type of diet.

I don't care for IF but that has nothing to do with what my experiences were with it. I can honestly say that my experience with IF didn't actually represent a real IF diet at what it should be. Too many variables changed to draw any conclusions about IF.

After all I have learned about dieting I have come to the conclusion that there are no rules, guidelines are based on a lot of experience and little scientific backing, and everything is debatable. Nothing works the same for everybody. Problem is you can't give good advice by saying, "do what works for your body" because people have no idea. That's why the 6 small meals, 40/40/20, pwo shake, eggs in the morning, steak at night, etc etc is recommended. Because it gets people in the habit of eating regularly, making their food, planning their meals, picking out the right food, and getting into a routine. Once they hit a wall then you start playing with the variables. I don't think that people should jump into any extreme diet even if it works because it bypasses them having to learn about their body which is the most important part. I think IF is great, keto is not that great but it is available to people which is great, frequent meals is great, carb cycling is great, protein cycling is great etc. Everything is great. Promoting all ways of dieting (which you always do GB) is great because it teaches you about your body. Newbs and people learning this lifestyle need to learn about their bodies. Even if IF worked 100% every time, I would still say that people should do things that help them learn about their bodies before trying it. Just like gear, learn how to train, eat, sleep etc before trying anything. That will help people better in the long run.

**gbrice75** · 06-02-2011, 02:12 PM

^ ^ BINGO!!! Thanks for clarifying all of this Twist. I agree with every last point stated above.

**marcus300** · 06-02-2011, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Twist

It wasn't necessarily directed at you. It seems every time I sign on there is talk about eating less meals. If you notice I never talk about my experience with IF because I didn't do any sort of accurate study and there were way too many variables being changed (like the introduction of more carbs) to say that IF didn't do what I wanted it to.

There is nothing wrong with people looking into other aspects of dieting. Of course I think that putting info up about it and informing people of all the ways to diet is the best thing to do for sure. I just wanna make sure that the board stays exactly the way it is. We present things and research about them, try them out, talk about experiences etc. One thing great about this board is that it discusses many different kinds of dieting techniques (just like you said above) and we let people decide for themselves. It would be a shame if we got too caught up in any one type of diet.

I don't care for IF but that has nothing to do with what my experiences were with it. I can honestly say that my experience with IF didn't actually represent a real IF diet at what it should be. Too many variables changed to draw any conclusions about IF.

After all I have learned about dieting I have come to the conclusion that there are no rules, guidelines are based on a lot of experience and little scientific backing, and everything is debatable. Nothing works the same for everybody. Problem is you can't give good advice by saying, "do what works for your body" because people have no idea. That's why the 6 small meals, 40/40/20, pwo shake, eggs in the morning, steak at night, etc etc is recommended. Because it gets people in the habit of eating regularly, making their food, planning their meals, picking out the right food, and getting into a routine. Once they hit a wall then you start playing with the variables. I don't think that people should jump into any extreme diet even if it works because it bypasses them having to learn about their body which is the most important part. I think IF is great, keto is not that great but it is available to people which is great, frequent meals is great, carb cycling is great, protein cycling is great etc. Everything is great. Promoting all ways of dieting (which you always do GB) is great because it teaches you about your body. Newbs and people learning this lifestyle need to learn about their bodies. Even if IF worked 100% every time, I would still say that people should do things that help them learn about their bodies before trying it. Just like gear, learn how to train, eat, sleep etc before trying anything. That will help people better in the long run.

Very good post Twist

I feel the same way and couldnt of expressed it any better

top marks

**RaginCajun** · 06-02-2011, 02:26 PM

what was written by twist is one the reasons i am on this site and it has helped me tremendously! kudos!

**baseline_9** · 06-02-2011, 02:32 PM

Agreed Twist....

I would always recommend 6 meals per day....

One reason is like you say it helps to install good eating habits... If someone will not eat 6 meals per day and follow my advise I will not bother with them. Not being a dick but if your not willing to be flexible and put some effort in then neither will I.

Another thing I do when someone wants to train with me is make sure there first session is on leg day..... I will kill them, completely fuk them over. If they come back the next day and want more then I know they are game and I will train with them. If not, well fuk em....

I am going off on one no LOL