Diet critique AM fasting cardio question?

[Lunacy]

Hello all. I am finally getting back in shape after an 8 month hiatus and I have a question about cardio in the AM on an empty stomach and if my diet looks OK. I have my reasons for the lapse in training, but in the end they are just excuses and I am done making them up.

Quick stats:
31
5’9”
198ish
Bf: ~15-20%, still have some good muscle but flat, with a lil belly 
Working out 12+ years

So, I was always under the impression that cardio on an empty stomach is catabolic and not a good idea. I see quite a few members are using this as a tool to lose weight and was curious what people think about AM cardio on an empty stomach?

First and foremost, I want to shed the fat and maybe gain some muscle but I am much more concerned with the fat since I have never carried this much bf (depressing). My goals are about 20lbs in the next 3 months. Here's what I am eating today:


Meal 1:
1/2 cup Oat Meal
150/5/27/3
ON Whey shake (will usually do whole eggs, egg whites or a combo instead)180/36/4.5/1.5

Meal 2:
tuna pouch
175/27.5/10/1.5

Meal 3:
Tilapia
130/21/0/1
Yam
180/4/41/0
Romaine w/ 2 strawberriers: dont have macros, figure insignificant
salad dressing for salad:
70/0/7/4

Meal 4:
Almonds (24)
163/6/6.1/14

Meal 5:
ON Whey shake:
180/36/4.5/1.5
PB Jif (once done will get some natty)
190/7/7/16

Meal 6:
Grilled Chicken 5ish OZ
164/36/0/2.5
Salad or veggies
Brown rice or yam??? No carb here? Maybe since its PWO?
Workout:
45 min HIIT first, then light legs

Meal 7
ON Whey shake:
180/36/4.5/1.5

Cals: 1582
Pro:178.5
Carb:100.1
Fat:41

With added Yam

Cals: 1762
Pro:182.5
Carb:141.1
Fat:41

* I will be taking in 5-10gm Fat in Fish oil

Will be doing lots of cadio. I have been running for the past 3 weeks b/c I am training for the Marine Corps Marathon at the end of October. The Marathon will be a tool to keep me on track with diet and cardio. Will bike to work 2-3 days a week, 30mins each way. 2 short runs or HIIT, and 1 moderate run (4-7 miles) during the week. Long run on the weekends. I am at 8 miles will increase 1 mile up to 18 or 20 miles by October. All this cardio will factor into my weight loss I hope. But again, I am curious about adding some AM fasted cardio and what people think about its impact on muscle.

Diet look OK? Thanks for reading.

[Windex]

Hello all. I am finally getting back in shape after an 8 month hiatus and I have a question about cardio in the AM on an empty stomach and if my diet looks OK. I have my reasons for the lapse in training, but in the end they are just excuses and I am done making them up.

Either do your cardio fasted first thing in the morning with BCAA's or right after you lift weights. In my opinion neither is strictly better than the other but both will be great for dropping fat/weight.

Quick stats:
31
5’9”
198ish
Bf: ~15-20%, still have some good muscle but flat, with a lil belly 
Working out 12+ years

So, I was always under the impression that cardio on an empty stomach is catabolic and not a good idea. I see quite a few members are using this as a tool to lose weight and was curious what people think about AM cardio on an empty stomach?

First and foremost, I want to shed the fat and maybe gain some muscle but I am much more concerned with the fat since I have never carried this much bf (depressing). My goals are about 20lbs in the next 3 months. Easily achievable mate - I lost 50 lbs in 9 months. Here's what I am eating today:


Meal 1:
1/2 cup Oat Meal
150/5/27/3
ON Whey shake (will usually do whole eggs, egg whites or a combo instead)180/36/4.5/1.5 Always go with egg option.

Meal 2:
tuna pouch
175/27.5/10/1.5 No changes needed in my opinion. Add veggies though

Meal 3:
Tilapia
130/21/0/1
Yam Move to pre/post workout. You want your carbs split up into 3 meals: Before you workout, after you workout, and the first meal of the day.
180/4/41/0
Romaine w/ 2 strawberriers: dont have macros, figure insignificant 2 Strawberries won't change anything. How much romaine ?
salad dressing for salad: Drop this, make your own dressing with squeezed lemon juice / extra virgin olive oil / salt n pepper / balsamic vinegar
70/0/7/4

Meal 4: Need to add a protein source here to go with the almonds. Chicken / Fish / Beef / etc - pick whatever tickles your fancy.
Almonds (24)
163/6/6.1/14

Meal 5: I am assuming this is your Pre-workout meal ??
ON Whey shake: Drop this, you only need 1 shake and that's post-workout, the rest of your protein needs to come from whole sources.
180/36/4.5/1.5
PB Jif (once done will get some natty)
190/7/7/16

Add another 100-200 cals either by incorporating a few nuts / Pbutter /etc. Pre/Post workout meals should be the largest meals of your day.

Meal 6:
Grilled Chicken 5ish OZ Move this to where a shake would be. Postworkout is when you want your whey shake. (1 - 1.5 scoop is more than sufficient)
164/36/0/2.5
Salad or veggies go with veggies.
Brown rice or yam??? No carb here? Maybe since its PWO? Yes you want to include a cab source, either is fine.
Workout:
45 min HIIT first, then light legs I don't understand this part, I thought Meal 6 was postworkout??

Meal 7 Replace with Cottage cheese / lean steak / casein powder [if you absolutely have to]
ON Whey shake:
180/36/4.5/1.5

Cals: 1582
Pro:178.5
Carb:100.1
Fat:41

With added Yam

Cals: 1762 See link for TDEE, but you probably need another 200-300 calories because 1800 is not enough.
Pro:182.5
Carb:141.1
Fat:41

* I will be taking in 5-10gm Fat in Fish oil

Will be doing lots of cadio. I have been running for the past 3 weeks b/c I am training for the Marine Corps Marathon at the end of October. The Marathon will be a tool to keep me on track with diet and cardio. Will bike to work 2-3 days a week, 30mins each way. 2 short runs or HIIT, and 1 moderate run (4-7 miles) during the week. Long run on the weekends. I am at 8 miles will increase 1 mile up to 18 or 20 miles by October. All this cardio will factor into my weight loss I hope. But again, I am curious about adding some AM fasted cardio and what people think about its impact on muscle.

Diet look OK? Thanks for reading.

Responses in bold, and read the following two:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ead&highlight=

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...et-Information

[Lunacy]

Responses in bold, and read the following two:

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ead&highlight=

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...et-Information

Thanks for the response. Cardio before weights is not recommended? Can I ask why? Again, most important to me is weight loss. Also, I find that I do not have the same intensity when doing weights firsts and I am more prone make an excuse and stop cardio early.
Splitting the carbs makes sense. The romaine is about half a head.
Meal 5 is once I get home from work, meal 6 is PWO and meal 7 is Post workout. I dont have much of a choice with meal 5, I have a 4 month old baby girl and need to watch her until my wife gets home to take over, so whatever is quick and easy and the shake and pb makes sense, which is also why I have to workout late, usually around 830PM.
I found a TDEE calculator that says 3045 cals a day??? Is that right? Well, looks like another 300 cals is correct. That shouldnt be hard to add.

So, with the fasted cardio in the AM, will that burn muscle up? I was under the impression it would? Thanks again

[Windex]

Thanks for the response. Cardio before weights is not recommended? Can I ask why? Again, most important to me is weight loss. Also, I find that I do not have the same intensity when doing weights firsts and I am more prone make an excuse and stop cardio early.
Splitting the carbs makes sense. The romaine is about half a head.
Meal 5 is once I get home from work, meal 6 is PWO and meal 7 is Post workout. I dont have much of a choice with meal 5, I have a 4 month old baby girl and need to watch her until my wife gets home to take over, so whatever is quick and easy and the shake and pb makes sense, which is also why I have to workout late, usually around 830PM.
I found a TDEE calculator that says 3045 cals a day??? Is that right? Well, looks like another 300 cals is correct. That shouldnt be hard to add.

So, with the fasted cardio in the AM, will that burn muscle up? I was under the impression it would? Thanks again

Not sure what TDEE calculator you're using but either you've multiplied your BMR completely wrong or the site is useless. 3k cals sounds too high just use the link I gave you for your TDEE (When you get the multiplier use "Light-Moderate").

The only time you put yourself at risk of losing muscle mass with cardio is high intensity or extended periods of cardio (regardless of intensity) without breaks. For example if you did like 2 hours of cardio straight you would torch your muscles. You will not torch your muscles doing cardio in the AM or after you lift weights. Aim for 60-70% of your max heart rate when doing cardio (usually the machines in the gym have an option to display this but you could choose other methods).

Muscle burns fat, therefore the more muscle you put on the more fat you will burning. Increasing muscle mass is achieved through muscular atrophy (lifting weights). So by maximizing your weight lifting time you will maximize your muscle gain and therefore maximize your fat loss. When you do cardio before hand you won't have any energy to lift as heavier as you could and therefore have inadequate workouts.

Mate, I don't want to offend you but your excuse for meal 5 is not going to fly. I'm a med student with 40 hours of class/week + working a part time job (18 hours a week), plus I have 2 dogs and a cat to look after, plus an I'm independent and cook and clean for myself and I still do just fine. What you want to do is take your day off (usually Sunday) and cook all your foods for the week in advance. Obviously you can't pre-cook some things but it will greatly reduce the amount of daily cooking you do. Salads are also faster than steaming vegetables (and easier to take on the go) so you can just put your dressing in a small tupperware container and distribute all your spinach or romaine or whatever in 6 other containers and do things of that nature.

[Lunacy]

Not sure what TDEE calculator you're using but either you've multiplied your BMR completely wrong or the site is useless. 3k cals sounds too high just use the link I gave you for your TDEE (When you get the multiplier use "Light-Moderate").

Found its about 2600, good to know.

The only time you put yourself at risk of losing muscle mass with cardio is high intensity or extended periods of cardio (regardless of intensity) without breaks. For example if you did like 2 hours of cardio straight you would torch your muscles. You will not torch your muscles doing cardio in the AM or after you lift weights. Aim for 60-70% of your max heart rate when doing cardio (usually the machines in the gym have an option to display this but you could choose other methods).

So you dont recommend High Intensity Interval Training? Or just not really long intervals? I usually did weights first, just felt cardio first might be better since I am looking for weight loss. Looks like I will be changing back, thanks.

Muscle burns fat, therefore the more muscle you put on the more fat you will burning. Increasing muscle mass is achieved through muscular atrophy (lifting weights). So by maximizing your weight lifting time you will maximize your muscle gain and therefore maximize your fat loss. When you do cardio before hand you won't have any energy to lift as heavier as you could and therefore have inadequate workouts.

Agree 100% Thanks for the reminder.

Mate, I don't want to offend you but your excuse for meal 5 is not going to fly. I'm a med student with 40 hours of class/week + working a part time job (18 hours a week), plus I have 2 dogs and a cat to look after, plus an I'm independent and cook and clean for myself and I still do just fine. What you want to do is take your day off (usually Sunday) and cook all your foods for the week in advance. Obviously you can't pre-cook some things but it will greatly reduce the amount of daily cooking you do. Salads are also faster than steaming vegetables (and easier to take on the go) so you can just put your dressing in a small tupperware container and distribute all your spinach or romaine or whatever in 6 other containers and do things of that nature.

No offense taken at all. It these kind of excuses that have me pushing near 20%bf. I just need to put a little more effort into cooking. Its basically week one for me so there is going to a learning curve. All good info and I appreciate the help!