Weight SET POINT

[SlimmerMe]

What are your opinions on a weight set-point?

And how long should one hover at a certain weight to establish a new set point before embarking out for more weight loss?

From what I understand maintaining a weight loss for awhile is a good idea to help re-set a SET POINT before starting up another low calorie regimen.

Any thoughts?

[GirlyGymRat]

Slimmer..I am not sure about set point term, but have to reestablish daily intake TDEE after lose weight. I think when you recalculate depends on you...no more than 2 weeks if eating clean. I was eating 1500 calories initially, but had to pull back to 1300 to keep losing. I have found that at 1500 I can gain weight week over week...especially with summer cheats and not sticking to the plan.

I am sure the experts will chime in an inform you which may help educate me too!!

[SlimmerMe]

^^^ very interesting.....summer is here, that is for sure!

[Twist]

There are two types of set points:
1. Amount of bodyweight:bodyfat that a person has naturally while eating a reasonable amount of calories. This is when your body decreases your appetite if you eat too much and increases it if you eat too little. This set point can be overrun with tasty foods effectively upping your bodyfat levels. So you could say this is what a person is meant to look like given their genetics.
2. This set point refers to gaining/losing weight then maintaining this (new) weight for a certain amount of time in hopes that the body will go through some sort of a biological reset and make the new bodyweight/bodymass the new equilibrium. This goes off of the theory that a set point exists, and that they can be moved.

What I think about:
1. This is down to genetics and everyone is different. Unless you are raised eating the right food it is tough to believe that anyone truly knows what they are meant to look like.
2. This is the more commonly referred meaning of the term. Keep in mind that it is impossible to create a set point at any unrealistic goal. For example, if you wanted to get to 5% bodyfat and maintain that (unless you were extremely skinny or had the best genetics in the world) it would be impossible. You would lose muscle mass until you were normally proportioned or more close to your set point #1 (above). Similarly if your natural set point (#1) is low muscle mass - say 180lbs @ 10%bf - it is impossible to create a set point unreasonably high, without the use of hgh to create NEW cells. So you will never be able to create a set point at anything unreasonable for your body type.
#2 continued: Set points seem to be a real characteristic though. I am not sure what makes a set point a set point though. In my head I can think of two things but it comes down to the chicken or the egg. Either you stay at a point (fat:LBM) for long enough that your body gets comfortable regulating things (like hormones) and adjusts your system (like stomach) accordingly, or your system gets used to a certain amount of food and your body regulates hormones accordingly. Not really sure on this one. I think about it all the time though. Musclescience or Phate should chime in.

Either way, if you are losing weight or gaining weight you don't have to stop in the middle and reset a set point and then continue on the same path. I would actually recommend against that. Ride the wave and keep going, don't let your body adapt. If you are doing a cut then bulk, or vice-versa, then I would recommend to maintain and create a set point before reversing course.

Everyone is different so it's hard to say when a new set point is created. The way I can tell with my body is that I force myself to eat a certain amount of calories and then one day I won't be forcing myself anymore. So that amount of cals became my new norm. It's hard to say when that happens but if you are cutting eating healthy helps that a lot. I notice with my clients that eating healthy (with close to zero cheats) speeds up the process of not only losing weight, but becoming comfortable at this new weight. Clients that do not change their diet do not get anywhere even when cals are reduced and clients that change their diet a little make 20% of the progress that other clients make. It's almost like every cheat reminds the body of the old set point lol.

So once you are comfortable and you don't have to struggle to maintain then you have created a set point. This will never happen at a physique level that is not natural for your body.

[SlimmerMe]

WHEW! AMAZING TWIST! THANK YOU!

And this is what got me most: "It's almost like every cheat reminds the body of the old set point lol."

Fortunately I was raised with very good food. Even today my mother eats what is considered clean. I am the one who got off track when I got out on my own. So hopefully my natural set point will be better than I can imagine compared to the one I temporarily created. Keeping fingers crossed this is the case.

Very interesting stuff here.

What about losing weight too fast though. I was thinking that after 23 pounds to slow down some and walk a tight rope between maintaining and losing more gradually. This way my skin stays in contact with the weight loss and remains tight. Hence thinking a new set point might be something to consider in the meantime erasing the older one. But you are suggesting not to stop in the middle of the course if the goal is to continue down the same path. Then if this is the case, I need to start logging back in! LOL!

[Twist]

Here is the issue with stopping your momentum (losing weight) and maintaining before starting up again: your body adapts to the exercises and cardio you do without the weight loss that goes along with it. Therefore when you start back again it will take more to do the same thing because your body has adjusted to the exercises.
I see this a lot with people who try to lose weight but don't diet. I have a client right now who doesn't wanna do any dieting and he loves to cook. So every time he loses weight from an intense week it comes back in the week following or at the most two weeks later. But since he has been through the painful workouts and done some cardio he doesn't get the initial newb losses anymore. So now we can do the same program he began doing (which was almost impossible for him to get through) with no problem and he can simultaneously gain weight! It sucks. This is why I don't like to break up gains or losses.

[SlimmerMe]

I see where you are going with this yet....

If I were to hold my new current weight now for let's say a month or 2 more, then why wouldn't it come off as easily as before since I would be eating less and exercising more once another intense personal challenge started back up?

[Twist]

If you ease on the exercise and ease on the diet but still maintain, no problem. If you go intense on the exercise so you can relax on the diet then it could pose a problem. Even in a worse case scenario its really not that bad. You just try a little harder and lift a little heavier. No biggie. But just realize that if you were doing 1 hour cardio 3 days per week to maintain you will have to do 1 hour 5 days or more per week to cut. I guess the most important thing to decide is if you wanna break your stride for some sort of current pleasure or if you wanna sacrifice a little now for a better tomorrow. If the former then just take a break.

I would just never be like "you know I've been making great progress right lately, how can I stop that?"

[SlimmerMe]

If you ease on the exercise and ease on the diet but still maintain, no problem. If you go intense on the exercise so you can relax on the diet then it could pose a problem. Even in a worse case scenario its really not that bad. You just try a little harder and lift a little heavier. No biggie. But just realize that if you were doing 1 hour cardio 3 days per week to maintain you will have to do 1 hour 5 days or more per week to cut. I guess the most important thing to decide is if you wanna break your stride for some sort of current pleasure or if you wanna sacrifice a little now for a better tomorrow. If the former then just take a break.

I would just never be like "you know I've been making great progress right lately, how can I stop that?"

You can read me pretty well Twist! I have eased a bit on both food and exercise for several reasons.
Wanted to change things up for awhile
Summer is when I am inundated with social activities.
Plus I wanted to see how disciplined I was "on my own" without reporting in with the goal of simply maintaining which I am doing plus lost 2 more pounds since my personal challenge.
Also, I do want to make sure my skin stays tight so it does not lag behind the body with the weight loss
Plus, my exercises in the summer are different. I am not heading out the door first thing since it is so darn hot. Plus I swim a lot more yet now have an earache which is bugging me. Called the doc at home on Friday and begged him to call in some medicine.

So..since I have justified 'holding" what I have done, I figured the best justification was: Re-set my SET POINT~

[GirlyGymRat]

Slimmer...really glad you started this thread cuz I realize now that
1. I just screwed myself by increasing my workouts and not keeping on food as much as could have / should have.
2. I now will have to do 2 more hours of cardio to cut
3. Nobody can screw me better than I can myself (ok, I learned this a while back, but painful lesson to relive)
4 I know so little on how this wonderful complicated tool works

[Phate]

You can read me pretty well Twist! I have eased a bit on both food and exercise for several reasons.
Wanted to change things up for awhile
Summer is when I am inundated with social activities.
Plus I wanted to see how disciplined I was "on my own" without reporting in with the goal of simply maintaining which I am doing plus lost 2 more pounds since my personal challenge.
Also, I do want to make sure my skin stays tight so it does not lag behind the body with the weight loss
Plus, my exercises in the summer are different. I am not heading out the door first thing since it is so darn hot. Plus I swim a lot more yet now have an earache which is bugging me. Called the doc at home on Friday and begged him to call in some medicine.

So..since I have justified 'holding" what I have done, I figured the best justification was: Re-set my SET POINT~

Couple points to add:

Several shorter cardio sessions per day is better for fat loss than 1 equivalent long session. It's been recently shown that if the body is given at least 20 minutes in between bouts of increased energy expenditure it's efficiency in oxidizing fat increase. Also, frequent swimming increases the water layer slightly (though this won't be very apparent until lower bf% are reached in the first place).

Also, people how are constantly busy(like I am due to school) seem to benefit from decreased frequency of meals. Personally I eat 3-4x a day max, which works well as it decreases my propensity to "graze" in-between meals and allows me to keep track of what i've eat alot easier.

[SlimmerMe]

Couple points to add:

Several shorter cardio sessions per day is better for fat loss than 1 equivalent long session. It's been recently shown that if the body is given at least 20 minutes in between bouts of increased energy expenditure it's efficiency in oxidizing fat increase. Also, frequent swimming increases the water layer slightly (though this won't be very apparent until lower bf% are reached in the first place).

Also, people how are constantly busy(like I am due to school) seem to benefit from decreased frequency of meals. Personally I eat 3-4x a day max, which works well as it decreases my propensity to "graze" in-between meals and allows me to keep track of what i've eat alot easier.

THANKS PHATE!

Interesting to hear that several shorter cardio sessions per day are better for BF loss....I am so happy to hear this hence why I just bet this really attributed to my success during my challenge as I was cardio for shorter periods but more often. So thanks for affirming this. I had no idea.

I have kinda heard this about swimming and a layer. Good thing I am not down to 5%! LOL! Honestly I swim because I love it so much and it is more mental than anything as it feels like a type of meditation to me.

Propensity to graze: now that is the challenge....

Appreciate your input a lot Phate~

[Twist]

Couple points to add:

Several shorter cardio sessions per day is better for fat loss than 1 equivalent long session. It's been recently shown that if the body is given at least 20 minutes in between bouts of increased energy expenditure it's efficiency in oxidizing fat increase.

I had no idea about this. I thought the opposite actually. Damn I have been telling my clients the complete opposite. If you have a link I would appreciate it. Not up to date my ass bro

[SlimmerMe]

I am thrilled to hear this about several shorter cardios. I swear this must have helped me during my challenge because 90% of the time I was cardio 2x's a day and many times even 3 times.

[RaginCajun]

I am thrilled to hear this about several shorter cardios. I swear this must have helped me during my challenge because 90% of the time I was cardio 2x's a day and many times even 3 times.

^^^^^this is what inspired me to do two a days!

[SlimmerMe]

^^^^^this is what inspired me to do two a days!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat!

[RaginCajun]

BUMP!!!!!!!!!! i heard this term (set point) thrown around here lately and wondering how long does the body take to cope with this?

[gbrice75]

^^ there's no answer to that question RC, everybody is different. I have been trying to establish a new set point for over a year now, but gotdamnit, my body LOVES existing in the low 190's around 13-15%. I'm currently 190lbs right around 12-13% and fighting hard to drop.

[Times Roman]

i;m starting to believe that the little "luv handle" where my kidneys are, are my friends............

[SlimmerMe]

Quite honestly I think I have established a NEW SET POINT and am thrilled.

[baseline_9]

Quite honestly I think I have established a NEW SET POINT and am thrilled.

As GB said, I am similar

My body ends up at 185 and 14-15%BF..... Thats just the way it is for me.... I need to get really lean and then hold sub 10 for as long as possible...


The set point may be more to to with eating habits anyway.... As you improve so does this 'set point'.... All I know is I love eating too much rite now LOL

[gbrice75]

As GB said, I am similar

My body ends up at 185 and 14-15%BF..... Thats just the way it is for me.... I need to get really lean and then hold sub 10 for as long as possible...


The set point may be more to to with eating habits anyway.... As you improve so does this 'set point'.... All I know is I love eating too much rite now LOL

This couldn't be more true, at least for me. One of my goals with Nark last summer was to adjust my set point, and that would be accomplished in big part by a complete change in eating habits. While I did great, eventually, the old me took over, and here we are today.

[RaginCajun]

Quite honestly I think I have established a NEW SET POINT and am thrilled.

As GB said, I am similar

My body ends up at 185 and 14-15%BF..... Thats just the way it is for me.... I need to get really lean and then hold sub 10 for as long as possible...


The set point may be more to to with eating habits anyway.... As you improve so does this 'set point'.... All I know is I love eating too much rite now LOL

This couldn't be more true, at least for me. One of my goals with Nark last summer was to adjust my set point, and that would be accomplished in big part by a complete change in eating habits. While I did great, eventually, the old me took over, and here we are today.

slim, that is freakin fabulous!


base, i know how you feel, i love to eat!


GB, so, when you were cutting last fall, do you think you should have tried to maintain that for a longer period thus making/hoping the body adjusts to what the body needs at that weight/physique?

i have been slowly losing for a while and then seem to stay at a weight for a while, then, it starts to fall off a lil more.

[baseline_9]

This couldn't be more true, at least for me. One of my goals with Nark last summer was to adjust my set point, and that would be accomplished in big part by a complete change in eating habits. While I did great, eventually, the old me took over, and here we are today.

DITTO

Im really finding it hard to break eating habbits.... At the weekends I can easily binge eat 5k without even realising it..... Its a mental game, we need to sharpen up and stay sharp

[RaginCajun]

DITTO

Im really finding it hard to break eating habbits.... At the weekends I can easily binge eat 5k without even realising it..... Its a mental game, we need to sharpen up and stay sharp

precisly! if there weren't weekends, i would prob be 10% BF!

[Back In Black]

precisly! if there weren't weekends, i would prob be 10% BF!

Mate we'd have you in single digits by now!

[RaginCajun]

Mate we'd have you in single digits by now!

hahahaha, you are right!!!!!!!