after meal? when sleeping? or is it 24/7?
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after meal? when sleeping? or is it 24/7?
24/7, kind of. Our bodies are constantly in a state of building up, breaking down, etc. all throughout the day and night. When there are excess calories present, and energy stores are full, chances are those calories will be converted and stored for later usage - there really isn't much else to do with them. It's not as simple as it sounds though. Let's say you eat a meal, 500 calories. An hour later, you eat another meal, 1000 calories. Let's just say that in that 2nd meal, 500 calories were surplus. Now, let's say you ate that same 1000 calorie meal after a 12 hour fast. Do you think that same 500 calories would still be surplus?
Bottom line - get in tune with your body to get a good idea of your caloric maintenance. Base the diet around your training, i.e. maybe some days you want to eat at a surplus (big training days, legs for instance), some days you'd want to eat at a deficit (cardio only days, non training days, etc). In the long run though, you should be striving towards your goal - whether that be adding mass, or reducing bodyfat.
One step at a time.
Not being dismissive but I wouldnt worry about it to be honest. Its pretty moot. Figure out TDEE - use that as a guide for daily caloric intake. Adjust calories under to cut or over to bulk. Eat exact amount to maintain. Usiung daily totals allows for easy management of caloric intake. If you focus on small managable daily goal - long term goal will be met. I am of the opinion you cant manipulate caloric intake times to maximize fat loss or anything else for that matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass
shortest answer is when it has to. if you aren't doing anything and eating, then you're gonna pack it on.
if you are lifting and doing cardio (and obviously watching the diet), then you'll burn it off.
keeping the metabolism up (lifting in a fashion that promotes muscle growth) and cardio later in the day will
help keep the body burning.
Not necessarily. Can you explain why you believe this to be the case?Quote:
Originally Posted by busybody
actually the easiest time that it has to convert cals to fat stores is whenever there is insulin present in the blood stream..
If you want to lose fat, and or stop the store of cals into fat cells, go 1 day, then 1 week without allowing an insulin spike..
It will change your body comp quickly..
thanks for all the relies guys. i guess my curiosity was more as to when not how, 24/7 makes sense! but Spy's answer is very interesting! Spy is this scientific or your opinion regarding insulin spike?
I'll let Spy answer/elaborate on his own comment, but it's definitely backed by science.
Here's a study that should effectively shatter that myth. The study concisted of 2 groups - 1 seperating the consumption of fats and carbs (the insulin/fat myth) the other eating the 2 together. Both lost weight - the combination group, in fact , lost slightly more.
Golay A, et al. Similar weight loss with low-energy food combining or balanced diets. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2000 Apr;24(4):492-6.
The fact is you can never stop the prescence of insulin. There wil always be overlaps of insulin and dietary fat intake or caloric intake. It is not the primary factor in determining fat loss or gain. Caloric intake is. Any prudent bodybuilding type diet renders this "insulin myth" obsolete and inapplicable imo.
ref- while the above is in my words...most of it could be considered info taken fron a couple Alan Aragon blogs.....that I 100% agree with
^^Agreed. People have been eating carb/fat meals or pro/carb/fat meals since the beginning of time without gaining excess fat. Insulin does not automatically make us gain body fat, TOO MANY CALORIES DOES.
Although, I do agree that it is easier to hit your macros for the day, especially if you're eating 6 - 8 meals, if you make your meals predominately pro/carb or pro/fat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXFJWoHura8
Not the one i was looking for, but there is on on diabetes that shows how with the introduction of insulin, all available cals that are present in the blood stream are stored into fat cells..
The study and effect of insulin and diabetes and the storing of fat is all too documented in medical journals..
Where i got the idea from this is from teaching trainers the rudimentary function of cause and effect of eating simple carbs and the storing of fat in the body as a required segment for national certification as personal trainers..
that youtube link should take you along the direction you are wanting to know.
I am of the opinion that studies as well as cause and effect when it comes to diabetics bear very little relevance to healthy people. First of all their body has lost the innate ability to "self regulate" so exogenous regulation becomes necessary. This can in no way be accomplished as effeicently as in healthy humans - this is clearly evidenced in the reduced life span and increased medical issues insulin dependant diabetics face. Also insulin causes hunger - many diabetics simply over eat. In addition it is a fact that diabetics have a drmatically increased propensity for hypothyroidism. Just as i dont think endegenous insulin can be efficiently manipulated for anabolic purposes - while exogenous insulin can. I dont think endegenous insulin production is the primary factor in gaining fat. Calories are. I dont think ingestion of large quanitites of simple sugars are ever prudent for bodybuilding or even general health purposes - hpwever i wouldnt primarily focus on endegenous insulin production if my goal is building muscle or losing fat. Id focus on caloric intake. At this stage - for people living a bodybuilding or simply a healthy lifestyle - good , nutritionally prudent food choices should be a given.
My advice is eating a low glycemic diet vs a body building diet but with that said they are very similar with just a few exceptions, the primary being the substitution of simple carbs with legumes http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/sou...anslegumes.htm
Another thread that has turned into a good, educational debate. Great topic Bass! ;)
just making a general statement of metabolism burn. he's asking when does the body turn it to body fat...it's when you got excess.Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrice75
if you sit on your ass and eat 2000 cals a day, i bet your ass gets fatter.
if you lift explosively, eat 2000 cals a day, and run every other, i guarantee
you lose weight.
that's all I'm saying. the body packs when its got extra. if you put it in your mouth, it's used. but if you keep a good high running metabolism (through weightlifting which keeps the burn continuous) and then spike it with some good cardio, your body will use it.
that's all I was saying.
sorry for not clarifying! just the basics. my fault g
^^^ thanks for the clarification, and good stuff bro, agreed. The Broscience camp likes to overcomplicate things (not saying that's ANYBODY here, btw, just talking in general) - and yes there is definitely something to insulin, etc - our bodies aren't simple organisms - but at the end of the day, the major factor IMO is and always has been 'calories in, calories out'. Manipulating that factor will have the greatest impact on one's physique, vs. tweaking other more minor things, like macro splits, what to eat when, etc. IMO, this all becomes more much relevant at sub 10% bodyfat.
yea i am glad it did! i guess when you are serious about something you do come up with good questions!Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrice75
definitely agreed. i also think most times that we just need to reallyQuote:
Originally Posted by gbrice75
bear down on the diet aspect.
but...following that, I will also say that some guys are hard losers,
and can't play with their body weight the way some others do.
I feel bad for those guys because even though i'm not an easy loser,
I'm definitely not a hard loser.
and it's true...as soon as you start closing in on those low body fat
percentages, the body grabs hold hard!
I am definitely one of those hard losers... 15 some odd years of being 255lbs and mid 30's bodyfat will fvck your body up pretty good. None of my metabolic processes are efficient. More now than when I was fat? Yea, definitely - but nowhere near where they could have been if I had led a healthy lifestyle all along. Better late than never though!
so true! i wish i can go back and redo what i have damaged! but i'll give anything to have your physique GB!Quote:
Originally Posted by gbrice75
I like to think of it like this. Think of your muscle cells as barrels. On these barrels you have taps to empty them, and a tap and hose to fill them with. The water is the glycogen. When you eat, it turns the tap open on the hose to fill the barrel. The tap on the barrel is slightly open all the time(resting metobolic rate). When you exercise, it opens the tap on the barrel to empty it. If you eat too much the barrel will overflow creating fat. If you deplete it too much the barrel will broken down. I know there a flaws with this analogy, but it helps you understand a bit more I hope.Quote:
Originally Posted by bass
double
Based on your arm in the avy, looks to me like you're already there or beyond bro, but thx!Quote:
Originally Posted by bass